Why do you put this up there like Koresh wasn't a bad guy? This is just absurd, even for you. Survivors state that he was taking underage "wives". He was a f**king pedophile. And you put up a tweet that has a guy saying that the government was making him to be a "boogeyman"? WTF?
30 years ago today, I first started questioning the federal government
- Thread starter TarHeelEer
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WVU82 is sick and twisted. No other way of putting it. He definitely belongs to a cult because he acts like it too much.
The fact is that no matter what, Koresh was going to make sure everyone of his followers would perish, along with him. It's textbook for cult leaders.
I don’t know that the last part is accurate. You’re speculating, admittedly, with tangible reasoning, but speculation none the less. It’s not the binary world you’re making it out to be. Most things in this thread can all be true at the same time.
Testimony....
Victorine Hollingsworth did not want to kill herself. Four days after the Feb. 28 shootout with federal agents, David Koresh planned for his followers to draw authorities into a final firefight, commit mass suicide and "blow up" their armed compound, she testified in federal court today. https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...ss-says/dda5e763-e03c-44ea-ba9b-10503f1c395c/
Was it those people's fault for being gullible enough to follow him ? ....devil's advocate...
Koresh should have been cut up like a chicken and beaten to death with his own limbs. The government ( as almost always) screwed completely up .
Freedom does not come without thorns.....
Everyone involved has some blame. Not just the POS Koresh and his followers though. They new that 40 mm gas and flash bangs were thrown into a building containing an arsenal with women and children in it. That's not even a lesson learned. That's been know since long before this incident.
So instead of trying to cover up that fact. You own the mistakes. You hold people accountable. You tell the entire truth. You don't make the Texas Rangers call you out for not doing so. That's why people lose faith in their institutions.
Look goofball. There's all kinds of conflicting stories from all the survivors and people involved. Cherry picking one from a cult member isn't helping your case. You look at the end result. You don't throw 1990's flashbangs or 40 mm gas grenades into an arsenal then point the finger at them. Everyone involved is to blame. It's that simple.
There were 40+ days more that transpired where that didn’t occur. And there is pretty substantial evidence out there that the fire was not set by the BDs.
I was replying to someone else who was saying that it's speculation that Koresh was preparing for mass suicide. Well, it wasn't speculation according to some survivors and their testimony.
It's....that...simple.
It doesn't matter what he may or may not of been preparing for. It could have and should have all been handled differently. You shouldn't be ok with results. When someone who has done this for a living keeps telling you that and you insist on breaking out the weenies and marshmallows. It makes you look blood thirsty.
Ok Koresh was an idiot. No argument here. There are thousands of examples I could defend Federal Agencies on. This unfortunately isn't one. Even more unfortunate is it's getting harder though to defend them. Even a lot of their former and current people feel that way. That's not good. So for starters let me know when they shut down more Wumao bot farms operating on American soil. They know where they are.
The border is and absolute mess. Worst ever. Mayorkas needs impeached and I don't care that he's just following orders.
Those 5 died on the initial raid, which is what was the worst tactic they could've used on the compound.
He went to town daily before the initial raid. They could've easily picked him up.
He was warned about an army of agents in town prior to the raid. Of course he was prepared.
There's no proof of that. CS gas grenades, flash bangs, and explosives(ammunition) are not a good combination.
I wouldn't say so much that it was a matter of how long, but how. The negotiation team was railroaded several times by HRT. Koresh had no trust in the feds, rightfully so, even if he was crazy.
They used 40 mm gas grenades. Even worse. Flash bangs of the early 90’s are known to start fires. That was known then and why you collect them up from individuals before making entry. That's why lying about it puts us where we are now on the topic. Own it. Tell the truth. Learn from it. Most importantly apologize for the mistakes. Instead of creating more division.
Be critical of all involved. That's not always the case. Because people will always blame the Government. However they definitely share some blame in this one.
Which is more likely?
A) Cult members watching Koresh fade away (he was dying) set fire to the compound.
B) Mixing flammable gas, fire starting material, and ammunition started the fire.
You dumbass liberals with your "either A or B" only switches. This is C. Koresh deserved to die, and the government severely ****ed up.
Agents leaked to the media the raid information. Then they leaked it to Koresh. So everyone knew what was coming. That happened through out the entire incident.
Umm......yeah there is proof. It's called example of previous cult leaders and their mass suicides.....PLUS....testimony of survivors on the intentions they witnessed and orders given by Koresh.
Why do you feel the need to defend this crazy cult leading pedophile............ohhhhhh............
Umm......yeah there is proof. It's called example of previous cult leaders and their mass suicides.....PLUS....testimony of survivors on the intentions they witnessed and orders given by Koresh.
Why do you feel the need to defend this crazy cult leading pedophile............ohhhhhh............
Survivors were in a cult and their stories vary. Just admit you're glad some "religious nuts" got cooked. You sound like someone who was ok with what Hitler did to the Jews. Weirdo.
Fact check false. The FBI "believed" he would. Actual survivor David Thibodeau said, nah, never the plan.
When agents are leaking their plans to the media. Who in return leaked it to Koresh. That pretty much destroyed negotiations and created a circular firing squad on both sides. Like I said. Clusterfvck all the way around.
So then, you toss the example/testimony I found out because you found another? I bet you have a bunch of My Pillows laying around the house.
I didn't defend him once. I was pretty clear that everyone involved is to blame. Just like you were clear you get off on "religious nuts" getting cooked. I'm guessing you consider all churches cults and would like to see more of this happen. You're a sick bastard that can't be reasoned with. So don't come crying to me if some tactical team throws a flash bang into your meth lab burning it to the ground with you in it. Justice was served according to you.
And I didn't defend the CCP once. Didn't stop you from saying I was defending them. Your rules, not mine. 👍
Why you making this out to be me against religion? Koresh isn't a "religious leader". For F**ks sake. You are still defending him. I was married in a church. Am a member to a church. Yet you can't help yourself.
Nobody believes that. What kind of hotdogs and marshmallows you got stocked for the next bonfire?
Don't care if you believe it. Fact is that you have said many times that Koresh was a "religious leader". That says it all, that you are defending him and legitimize his pedophilia because he was "religious".
Enjoy that buddy! Maybe you'll join him in Hell one day.
Again I never defended Koresh. I cleary stated he needed to be held accountable. Everyone else reading this thread can see that. They can also see this is about religion with you. You think JUSTICE was served that day. It wasn't. It was a disaster by all that could have been prevented. I guarantee you are one of those that think religion is what is holding WV back.
You are mentally ill. I seriously suggest you consider talking with a professional. Nobody that does this for a living that's good at it agrees with how the situation was handled. It's the gold standard now on what not to do.
"Just like you were clear you get off on "religious nuts" getting cooked"
You referring to Koresh as "religious". He wasn't. He was a pedophile crazy CULT leader. Religion is great. Cults are not.
You think all religious people are in cults. No other way to explain your inability to see all the facts in this situation. No reason to defend either side. But you keep trying.
Tell the truth. You watch replays of the fire while beating off.
Keep trying. But it's obvious that you identify Koresh as "religious", and not a cult leader. Because you refuse to refer to him as a "cult leader". Why is that? I've stated several times I'm good with religion. Yet you can't refer to him as a cult leader? Why?
Nobody believes you. It was how excited you get talking about women and children getting burned to death that gives it away. Cult or not. That's pretty sick.
Could be both. I certainly don't agree with them. I also understand how the situation was handled was bad.
The Branch Davidians (or the General Association of Branch Davidian Seventh-day Adventists) are an apocalyptic new religious movement founded in 1955 by Benjamin Roden. They regard themselves as a continuation of the General Association of Davidian Seventh-Day Adventists, established by Victor Houteff in 1935.
