WVU's conference payout exceeded Clemson's

[topdecktiger]

I think to get an apples to apples comparison of revenue distribution with the other conferences, you need to add only the tier 3 TV revenue.

Another problem is the numbers need to be accurate. In the above graph, not all the numbers are from the same year. For example, the Big 12 figure of $34.8 million is for 2016-17, but the $40.4 million for the SEC is from 2015-2016.

I totally agree. Comparisons should only include conference payouts plus tier 3 income where it is not included. For this year that is $7.1 million for WVU, $15 million for Texas and I believe around $9 million for Oklahoma. I am not familiar with Iowa State's 3rd tier deal. Could you enlighten us? As far as I'm concerned, the higher the better.

That's still not apples to apples. The $7.1 million is more than just TV money.

 

[still5-0vstarheels]

Another problem is the numbers need to be accurate. In the above graph, not all the numbers are from the same year. For example, the Big 12 figure of $34.8 million is for 2016-17, but the $40.4 million for the SEC is from 2015-2016.



That's still not apples to apples. The $7.1 million is more than just TV money.

So if we add the $1 to $2 million you say our 3 tier TV rights are worth, we are still $13 million more than S-Cuse estimates their ACC payout is this year. Not bad Apples to Apples.

 

[Rootmaster]

Can we kick off yet...and get rid of the constant "who has the biggest one" comparison?

 

[still5-0vstarheels]

Can we kick off yet...and get rid of the constant "who has the biggest one" comparison?

So it is OK to bash the B12 but heaven forbid anyone point out the $10+ million payday difference is off limits. That is huge factor going forward that hinders in the B12 breakup.

 

[topdecktiger]

So if we add the $1 to $2 million you say our 3 tier TV rights are worth, we are still $13 million more than S-Cuse estimates their ACC payout is this year. Not bad Apples to Apples.

That's still an inaccurate comparison. The $23.8 million figure for the ACC is also from 2015-2016. The ACC hasn't released its 2016-2017 payout yet. None of the conferences have, aside from the Big12.

So it is OK to bash the B12 but heaven forbid anyone point out the $10+ million payday difference is off limits. That is huge factor going forward that hinders in the B12 breakup.

It's not ok to falsify the numbers.

 

[still5-0vstarheels]

That's still an inaccurate comparison. The $23.8 million figure for the ACC is also from 2015-2016. The ACC hasn't released its 2016-2017 payout yet. None of the conferences have, aside from the Big12.


.
It's not ok to falsify the numbers.

S-cuse as publicly stated that figure for this year. $13 million less than WVU. It is OK to ignore facts if they interfere with your beliefs. B12 killed it. Spin how you want but numbers are numbers.

 

[topdecktiger]

S-cuse as publicly stated that figure for this year. $13 million less than WVU. It is OK to ignore facts if they interfere with your beliefs. B12 killed it. Spin how you want but numbers are numbers.

No, that's 100% inaccurate. The figure of $23.8 million is not what Syracuse stated as their estimated payout for this year. The figure of $23.8 million is what the ACC distributed in 2015-2016.

Here is an article from NBCSN proving that very fact. The headline says:
ACC distributed $23.8 million to members in 2015-16

You are confusing the year of the Syracuse announcement. Last year, 2015-2016, Syracuse reported their ACC payout at $22.8 million. There is not a figure for the 2016-2017 ACC payout.

So no, I'm not the one ignoring facts. You are.

 

[still5-0vstarheels]

No, that's 100% inaccurate. The figure of $23.8 million is not what Syracuse stated as their estimated payout for this year. The figure of $23.8 million is what the ACC distributed in 2015-2016.

Here is an article from NBCSN proving that very fact. The headline says:
ACC distributed $23.8 million to members in 2015-16

You are confusing the year of the Syracuse announcement. Last year, 2015-2016, Syracuse reported their ACC payout at $22.8 million. There is not a figure for the 2016-2017 ACC payout.

So no, I'm not the one ignoring facts. You are.

We will see. But it will be no where close to the B12 payout once again.

 

[topdecktiger]

We will see. But it will be no where close to the B12 payout once again.

There is no "we will see." You are simply wrong when you said Syracuse announced their 2016-2017 payout. They haven't. You were also wrong when you tried to claim the $23 million figure was what Syracuse announced. That was last year, not this year. You accused me of ignoring facts because if they interfere with my beliefs, but you are the one who is actually doing that.

Regarding this year's upcoming payout, it will increase, for two reasons: 1) The ACC did not have the Orange Bowl in 2015-2016. They will have it for 2016-2017. 2) The ACC's TV payment will go up. Every conference, including the ACC, has a graduated pay scale for their TV contract. The payment gradually increases each year. That's why the Big 12's payout went up from $28.4 million in 2015-16 to $34.5 million in 2016-17. The ACC's will increase by a similar ratio, based on the increased TV payment and the Orange Bowl payment

 

[still5-0vstarheels]

There is no "we will see." You are simply wrong when you said Syracuse announced their 2016-2017 payout. They haven't. You were also wrong when you tried to claim the $23 million figure was what Syracuse announced. That was last year, not this year. You accused me of ignoring facts because if they interfere with my beliefs, but you are the one who is actually doing that.

Regarding this year's upcoming payout, it will increase, for two reasons: 1) The ACC did not have the Orange Bowl in 2015-2016. They will have it for 2016-2017. 2) The ACC's TV payment will go up. Every conference, including the ACC, has a graduated pay scale for their TV contract. The payment gradually increases each year. That's why the Big 12's payout went up from $28.4 million in 2015-16 to $34.5 million in 2016-17. The ACC's will increase by a similar ratio, based on the increased TV payment and the Orange Bowl payment

So will be $7 to $10 million below the B12. Thanks for playing.

 

[topdecktiger]

So will be $7 to $10 million below the B12. Thanks for playing.

Actually no. It will be around $4-5 million.

Of course, that ignores that fact that the ACC has a network coming online in 2019.

 

[still5-0vstarheels]

Actually no. It will be around $4-5 million.

Of course, that ignores that fact that the ACC has a network coming online in 2019.

And that ignores the $2 million for our 3T TV rights. (your number). No way ACC pays out $30+ million. Perhaps average of $28M which would be 8 to 9 million below us.

 

[topdecktiger]

And that ignores the $2 million for our 3T TV rights. (your number). No way ACC pays out $30+ million. Perhaps average of $28M which would be 8 to 9 million below us.

If you want to add in the Tier 3, then you would also have to add in that the ACC pays travel expenses for its teams (the only conference to do so) which is separate from the conference payouts.

And again, you're pounding your chest for one year. The Big 12 doesn't have another source of income lined up. The ACC does.

 

[still5-0vstarheels]

If you want to add in the Tier 3, then you would also have to add in that the ACC pays travel expenses for its teams (the only conference to do so) which is separate from the conference payouts.

And again, you're pounding your chest for one year. The Big 12 doesn't have another source of income lined up. The ACC does.

No, not pounding but B12 is paying way above the ACC which will not change any time soon.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

So it is OK to bash the B12 but heaven forbid anyone point out the $10+ million payday difference is off limits. That is huge factor going forward that hinders in the B12 breakup.

Listen the Big12 underachieves on a National level on the field and on the court. More football than hoops. The national media mocks Big12 football at times. Generally I feel the media is fair to Big12 hoops and respects the Big12 generally. Next, there's this GOR thing that Texas and OU use to hold their partners hostage. This post is a true story.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

Actually no. It will be around $4-5 million.

Of course, that ignores that fact that the ACC has a network coming online in 2019.

There was some one time stuff this year as well. Until Texas and OU sign on for good the Big12 Ins in harms way. The homers are in denial and focus on payout.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Georgia Tech got $22.6 million, Clemson got $27.9 million from the ACC pot for the fiscal year ending after the 2016/17 bowl games.

Georgia got $41.9 million, Alabama and Mississipi $39.1 million apiece from the SEC.

Oklahoma got $28.9 million and West Virginia got $28 million from the Big 12.

In 4 years the Big 12 has nearly doubled its conference revenue.

Since WVU got more than Clemson, why the hue and cry over the Big 12 members not getting as much as the other conferences?

The SEC is on a separate plane with it comes to football, obviously. But it’s not like the Big 12 is at the bottom in per-member payouts.

Why does this matter to you? Clemson has 2 trophies and WVU 0.

 

[HugoStiglitz]

Can we buy some good wins with that money?

 

[CaliforniaMountaineer]

Expect the ACC to dip into reserves when announcing revenue Distribution for this past year. They are unlikely to just distribute tv revenue money as it would create a public relations problem.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

Why does this matter to you? Clemson has 2 trophies and WVU 0.

Almost forgot about that one. Thanks for getting my head back in the game.

 

[topdecktiger]

No, not pounding but B12 is paying way above the ACC which will not change any time soon.

Yes, it actually will. In 2017-2018, there will be a ~$7 million swing.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

Yes, it actually will. In 2017-2018, there will be a ~$7 million swing.

Do you get paid per post, or is it a contract agreement?

 

[still5-0vstarheels]

Yes, it actually will. In 2017-2018, there will be a ~$7 million swing.

With that one year swing, the ACC will still be behind the B12 that will be as close as the ACC gets during the GOR period.

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers]

The Big 12 distribution does not include tier 3 TV revenue which is held by the schools, unlike the other major conferences. Jamie Pollard tweeted a nice graphic showing each conference's distributions.

View embedded media

So, with 3rd tier rights, Big 12 schools got as much as SEC schools. Wow!

 

[dave]

That's still an inaccurate comparison. The $23.8 million figure for the ACC is also from 2015-2016. The ACC hasn't released its 2016-2017 payout yet. None of the conferences have, aside from the Big12.



It's not ok to falsify the numbers.

It sucks at the bottom eh clemson?

 

[topdecktiger]

With that one year swing, the ACC will still be behind the B12 that will be as close as the ACC gets during the GOR period.

Nope, that would put the ACC ahead for that year.

It's also inaccurate to say that's as close as they will get during the GOR. You're completely ignoring the upcoming network. You can't just pretend that doesn't exist.

It sucks at the bottom eh clemson?

Better check the standings. Clemson is #1.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

Nope, that would put the ACC ahead for that year.

It's also inaccurate to say that's as close as they will get during the GOR. You're completely ignoring the upcoming network. You can't just pretend that doesn't exist.



Better check the standings. Clemson is #1.

It's weird how everyone in America talks about how poorly the Big12 recruits the top end players. And how poorly the league presents itself nationally. And how poorly the league has represented itself in the BCS and Playoffs. And how poorly the league has positioned itself for the future. And how poorly they handled the interview process while considering expanding recently. And how poorly the league was regarding timing on.......well everything. Yet these Big12 homers ignore it all. They can't even discuss the issue facing this conference. I guess the only thing to do is talk about the money while it lasts if everything else seems bleak. The days of boasting about 10 bags of money may well be coming to an end within the next 5-10 years.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

It's weird how everyone in America talks about how poorly the Big12 recruits the top end players. And how poorly the league presents itself nationally. And how poorly the league has represented itself in the BCS and Playoffs. And how poorly the league has positioned itself for the future. And how poorly they handled the interview process while considering expanding recently. And how poorly the league was regarding timing on.......well everything. Yet these Big12 homers ignore it all. They can't even discuss the issue facing this conference. I guess the only thing to do is talk about the money while it lasts if everything else seems bleak. The days of boasting about 10 bags of money may well be coming to an end within the next 5-10 years.

Midnight, June 30, 2025. WVU simply needs to continue climbing the ladder academically and athletically. If they do there will be a nice place for them when the next conference moves hit. If not, hello G5. The money is nice, though.

 

[still5-0vstarheels]

It's weird how everyone in America talks about how poorly the Big12 recruits the top end players. And how poorly the league presents itself nationally. And how poorly the league has represented itself in the BCS and Playoffs. And how poorly the league has positioned itself for the future. And how poorly they handled the interview process while considering expanding recently. And how poorly the league was regarding timing on.......well everything. Yet these Big12 homers ignore it all. They can't even discuss the issue facing this conference. I guess the only thing to do is talk about the money while it lasts if everything else seems bleak. The days of boasting about 10 bags of money may well be coming to an end within the next 5-10 years.

It is funny how the trolls who ignore the pay differential don't understand how that is a very positive glue that may hold the conference together. The only conference that is a step up in pay is the SEC.

Meantime WVU is in the midst of a great run across the board with our athletic programs. So we should ignore our successes and focus on the bleak future as predicted by our friendly Pitt fan. As I stated before, why worry about what you cannot control. Enjoy the moment.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

Don't argue with the paid message board shill. Remember, he gets paid more when someone engages him.

Let him starve.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

It is funny how the trolls who ignore the pay differential don't understand how that is a very positive glue that may hold the conference together. The only conference that is a step up in pay is the SEC.

Meantime WVU is in the midst of a great run across the board with our athletic programs. So we should ignore our successes and focus on the bleak future as predicted by our friendly Pitt fan. As I stated before, why worry about what you cannot control. Enjoy the moment.

I've never once said WVU has a bleak future.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

It is funny how the trolls who ignore the pay differential don't understand how that is a very positive glue that may hold the conference together. The only conference that is a step up in pay is the SEC.

Meantime WVU is in the midst of a great run across the board with our athletic programs. So we should ignore our successes and focus on the bleak future as predicted by our friendly Pitt fan. As I stated before, why worry about what you cannot control. Enjoy the moment.

If the ACC offered WVU membership at noon today for 2023 WVU would accept the offer 12:01pm.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

If the ACC offered WVU membership at noon today for 2023 WVU would accept the offer 12:01pm.

The GOR doesn't end until June 30, 2025 at midnight. That would be kind of messy.

 

[still5-0vstarheels]

If the ACC offered WVU membership at noon today for 2023 WVU would accept the offer 12:01pm.

God I hope not. We do not fit in with them.

 

[dave]

Nope, that would put the ACC ahead for that year.

It's also inaccurate to say that's as close as they will get during the GOR. You're completely ignoring the upcoming network. You can't just pretend that doesn't exist.



Better check the standings. Clemson is #1.

Sorry you are poor.

 

[still5-0vstarheels]

Sorry you are poor.

He is looking at the $40 million swing from the Sugar and from the Orange Bowls. Actually the loss of the Sugar Bowl will be offset by the B12 championship game, so the B12 revenue should be close to the same. $40 Million split 14 ways would draw the ACC about $3 million closer, certainly well shy of the B12 payout.

 

[dave]

ACC is poor. Before long they will charge to take a dump.

 

[topdecktiger]

He is looking at the $40 million swing from the Sugar and from the Orange Bowls. Actually the loss of the Sugar Bowl will be offset by the B12 championship game, so the B12 revenue should be close to the same. $40 Million split 14 ways would draw the ACC about $3 million closer, certainly well shy of the B12 payout.

The ACC also gets a $3 million bump in the renegotiated TV contract, which would offset the Big12 title game. The Orange Bowl/Sugar Bowl dynamic still remains.

Aside from that, you continue to stick your head in the sand regarding the conference network. You haven't addressed it once.

 

[still5-0vstarheels]

The ACC also gets a $3 million bump in the renegotiated TV contract, which would offset the Big12 title game. The Orange Bowl/Sugar Bowl dynamic still remains.

Aside from that, you continue to stick your head in the sand regarding the conference network. You haven't addressed it once.

So what is your projection on that? $2 million a team? $5 million a team? I would image it will be less than the SEC and B10 and more than the PAC12. But it will need to be on the order of the B10 to catch up with the B12 money. Perhaps the point is I have no idea and likely you don' ether as you would have posted it. Perhaps it will not happen and ESPN will pay the penalty. Who the F!@#$ knows. Shit our difference in conference pay is dwarfed by Clemson's iptay program.

 

[topdecktiger]

So what is your projection on that? $2 million a team? $5 million a team? I would image it will be less than the SEC and B10 and more than the PAC12. But it will need to be on the order of the B10 to catch up with the B12 money. Perhaps the point is I have no idea and likely you don' ether as you would have posted it. Perhaps it will not happen and ESPN will pay the penalty. Who the F!@#$ knows. Shit our difference in conference pay is dwarfed by Clemson's iptay program.

These are the only projections I've seen:
Florida State athletic director Stan Wilcox told FSU’s Board of Trustees on Wednesday that the conference hopes for $8-10 million more per school in the network’s first year, $15-20 million more thereafter. This according to the Noles247 website.

Those numbers might be optimistic, but if they only got half that amount, that would do the job.

Now with that said, there are two problems with this argument.

1) The Big 12 simply does not have as great of a lead on the ACC as you think they do. The reason for the confusion is that people are trying to compare the Big 12's 2016-17 payout to the ACC's 2015-16 payout. You simply can't do that. The only way to get an accurate comparison is to use numbers from the same year. The last year in which we have numbers for both is 2015-16 (last year). In that year, the Big 12 made $28 million, and the ACC made $23 million. That's only a $5 million gap. With the network + the Orange bowl, that's not a hard deficit to overcome, or at least level.

2) Your last sentence is enlightening. My argument is not based on "school pride." I think what you believe is that since I'm a Clemson fan, I'm "taking up" for Clemson/the ACC. That's not the case. If the ACC was definitively behind (like they are with the SEC or Big Ten), I would have no problem admitting that. That's not the issue. My problem is when people start making arguments on false information or misleading premises. Using 2015-16 numbers portrayed as 2016-17 numbers is false information. Ignoring an upcoming conference network is misleading. Presenting Tier 3 money as TV only is misleading.That's my only argument. If the Big 12 just flat out made more money than the ACC, I have no problem with it. The issue is, when you look at the actual revenue, and what's in the pipeline, it's just not accurate to say the ACC will be behind. The numbers simply don't support that conclusion.