Was BCS system better Than CFP?

[WVUALLEN]

UCF left out of playoffs last year. In BCS era they are probably closer at making the title game. With CFP it pretty much guarantees only P5 schools make it in. Two of the CFP titles were won by 2 teams that didn't even win their conference. Ohio State and Alabama.

 

[Rootmaster]

Good topic Allen. The BCS system and the current one both were full of flaws. However one thing the BCS did was make conference championships mean something...instead of leaving the invites up to the opinions of a bunch of folks around a conference table. The current system, unlike the basketball model, also nearly guarantees that a non P5 school will never get to the promise land. My opinion...the flawed BCS was replaced with a worse system put together for blue blood dominance and ESPN income. It is bogus.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Good topic Allen. The BCS system and the current one both were full of flaws. However one thing the BCS did was make conference championships mean something...instead of leaving the invites up to the opinions of a bunch of folks around a conference table. The current system, unlike the basketball model, also nearly guarantees that a non P5 school will never get to the promise land. My opinion...the flawed BCS was replaced with a worse system put together for blue blood dominance and ESPN income. It is bogus.

I agree completely. It's all about the blue bloods and big dollars.

 

[writeon]

In anything where big money is involved, someone will twist it around to his advantage.

 

[Orlaco]

BCS was fine.... ....just take the top four and add playoffs.

.....but nooooooooo..... .....there just had to suddenly be a committee to make it all a cluster****.

 

[WVUALLEN]

BCS was fine.... ....just take the top four and add playoffs.

.....but nooooooooo..... .....there just had to suddenly be a committee to make it all a cluster****.

All it takes is a committee to screw up a good thing.

 

[3xWVUenginEER]

IMO NO!

There were too many examples of no logic whatsoever in the BCS.

The computers once gave FSU the nod over Miami (who beat FSU) to play Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl. That was 2000 I think. Miami was the best team that year. Ask Florida!

Then you had the Oklahoma losing in the Big XII Title Game but still playing USC in the Orange for the BCS title and getting ROLLED!.

I think Nebraska once lost to Colorado BAAAAD at seasons end but still played Miami in the Fiesta and got rolled.

There are other examples that caused a split title (LSU & USC not playing despite being the best schools).

I know there are biases with ESPN and their committee & it's obvious, but 4 schools is still better than 2.

The biggest complaint I have with the committee is the meeting every week and in the final poll, they completely forget every week before then and throw it out the window. I think the first year of the committee that TCU could have beat anyone in the field selected (Ohio State, BAMA, FSU, or Oregon) and dropped from 3rd to 6th despite winning their final game in a ROMP!

If I could make changes to this current system, it would be:
-No committee-None. We don't need Condaleeza Rice, Barry Alvarez, Barry Switzer, Chuck Berry, or anyone else's opinion (AD, former coach, broadcaster, Secratary of State) telling people who their OPINIONS are on who the best is with no logic whatsoever to back it up.

-Use a point system & weight P5 wins.
-MAXIMUM of 7 home games allowed! Anything more than that is NOT counted. You have to go on the road 5 times minimum. You are rewarded more for going on the road.
-The games vs G5 are worth 2 pts for a Home win and 2.25 pts for a Road win.
-P5 wins on the road get a weighted value of 2.75 pts.
-P5 wins at home are worth 2.5 pts.
-Neutral Site games (excluding conference title games) aren't Neutral Site games if they are within 300 miles of campus unless a similar distance for both schools and both schools agree (split up tickets). In other words BAMA or FSU can't play WVU in the GA Dome and claim it's a neutral site game unless WVU agrees. Same as VT playing Boise State in DC. Neutral Site wins vs P5 are worth 2.625 pts.
-No points whatsoever are given for games vs FCS (1-aa) Schools. Season ticket holders would love this.


Bonus Points in the event of a tie
1. Conference Champ or not (1 pt each)
2. More P5 Wins (1 pt)
3. Most OOC P5 wins (1 pts)
4. Most OOC P5 Road wins (2 pts).


To anyone who says this eliminates G5, I say it gives more opportunity than they're getting now. They have to go on the ROAD vs P5 schools and WIN. Florida State built their program doing that-anyone, anywhere, anytime! There is no perfect system, but a committee is always biased and not that subjective, especially when a tv network who overpaid for the tv rights to the playoffs and conferences and in some cases co owns some conference networks is picking who is on the committee to pick the playoffs.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Then why was UCF not in playoffs? G5 has no shot. Two SEC teams in title game. No B1G team. Two times the champs have been teams that did not win their conference title.

TCU lost to BYU blowing huge lead at the end. G5 had a better shot with BCS. Although there was no such thing as G5 or P5 then. All WVU had to do was win their last game and they were in the title game. WVU would have to be unbeaten to have a shot at the table or one of the other conferences have a champ with 2 losses. Still that is no guarantee as Ohio State and Alabama did not win their conference but still made it.

Returning to the old formula that factored into the old BCS ratings, one of the computer rankings did its part to create a little of the adversity that Saban enjoys. Each formula measures success with different factors. Before the BCS died and the playoff was born, computer ratings made up one-third of the standings formula. Human polls made up the other slice of the pie.

Now it's all secretive and 100% human selection.

 

[Orlaco]

Now it's all secretive and 100% human (usually biased) selection.

Modified your post to reflect my opinion.

The great thing about computers is if ‘people’ wanted software could be programmed using algorithms to evaluate past ranking mistakes and incorporate those mistakes into future rankings. Those programs can be written without bias.

People just can’t (or rarely do) admit mistakes after the fact and certainly won’t modify how they make public choices (like these playoff choices) in the future out of fear that they may be revealing they made a mistake in the past. ....that’s to say a computer doesn’t have the burden of an ego.

Way too in-depth to explain further than that in a short post.

 

[3xWVUenginEER]

Allen,

No offense meant my fellow weekly Pick'm brother, but given the schedule UCF played, I don't believe they deserved a shot this past year. I don't know how many OOC games they have in the American, but they really didn't play anyone in the regular season. They had GA Tech scheduled and a hurricane eliminated that game, but who is GA Tech? They played Meat Chicken a few years earlier but got rolled.

Memphis was their best pre Bowl win probably and that school lost a home game to the Great Matt Campbells in the Liberty Bowl. If it's not Memphis then it's (10-2) USF who beat a 6-6 Texas Tech 38-34 in their bowl game.

If a G5 school wants a shot for the playoffs, they have to what FSU did back in the day before they were in the ACC, play on the road, and anybody, anywhere, any time. If/when the playoffs goes to 6 or 8, it will be easier to get in, but nobody out of the blue without a long consistent track record is getting 1st time without being ROAD Warriors to sell for TV. You have to show you're willing to go through the grinder and deserving or people don't tune in. Espn overpaid for this tv show.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Yes I can see your reasoning. UCF did have a Miami, Fl game cancelled due to a hurricane. Pun not intended.

Anytime anywhere sounds like a Bob Huggins quote. Don Nehlen I believe used the same words as well.

Biggest problem with the words P5 and G5 are P5 schools not wanting to return the game to a G5 stadium. Media needs to go back to just saying Division 1. Either that or NCAA needs to separate the 5 conferences to another level. With G5 having their own playoff system.

Money is killing college football.

 

[Dreh_Nagi_HC_IM]

G5 will never be at the table, unless someone like an Ohio State or Alabama dresses up in Bowling Green uniforms.

With that said, I'm okay with the CFP committee, but want the field expanded to eight teams. Even if that were to occur, the G5 will still likely not make the cut. Even if you play 2 or 3 decent OOC games, and somehow win, you'll still have the scheduling deficiency of having to play the conference schedule, which basically eliminates a G5 team from being in the conversation. Certainly, someone like a Boise State who has developed a decent history might make the cut, but it would certainly not be a guarantee. Additionally, I'm totally against giving a G5 an auto-birth into a potential expanded field. I think you have to earn your way.

All told, with money and TV ratings dictating the show, G5 is better served by creating their own playoff format under a separate division. It doesn't mean the G5 members cannot continue to play the big boys for money games, as they need that to survive. I actually enjoy watching the lower division playoffs prior to bowl season, so I think a G5 playoff would be decent to watch.

 

[topdecktiger]

Then why was UCF not in playoffs? G5 has no shot. Two SEC teams in title game. No B1G team. Two times the champs have been teams that did not win their conference title.

TCU lost to BYU blowing huge lead at the end. G5 had a better shot with BCS. Although there was no such thing as G5 or P5 then. All WVU had to do was win their last game and they were in the title game. WVU would have to be unbeaten to have a shot at the table or one of the other conferences have a champ with 2 losses. Still that is no guarantee as Ohio State and Alabama did not win their conference but still made it.

Returning to the old formula that factored into the old BCS ratings, one of the computer rankings did its part to create a little of the adversity that Saban enjoys. Each formula measures success with different factors. Before the BCS died and the playoff was born, computer ratings made up one-third of the standings formula. Human polls made up the other slice of the pie.

Now it's all secretive and 100% human selection.

The G5 teams did not have a better shot in the BCS. The CFP rankings have mirrored what would have been the BCS rankings.

UFC would not have made it in the BCS system. The Coaches Poll (1/3 of the BCS) had UCF ranked 10th. Sagarin had them 13th. Massey had them 20th. Colley had them 7th. Massey had them 12th. They were too far behind to make the top 4, even in the BCS.

 

[JediMastEER]

Can anyone explain to me why we actually NEED a clear "National Champion"? Other than to make ESPN more money, of course...

Personally, I'd be fine with letting everyone determine their own National Champions, like the way it used to be. Sure, it meant that Pitt got to claim 263 national championships as awarded by the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, but every system since has had its own glaring flaws. The CFP, BCS, Bowl Alliance, and Bowl Coalition can go suck eggs.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Can anyone explain to me why we actually NEED a clear "National Champion"? Other than to make ESPN more money, of course...

Personally, I'd be fine with letting everyone determine their own National Champions, like the way it used to be. Sure, it meant that Pitt got to claim 263 national championships as awarded by the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, but every system since has had its own glaring flaws. The CFP, BCS, Bowl Alliance, and Bowl Coalition can go suck eggs.

There should not be an everybody gets a participation trophy.

There are 10 conferences. AAC, ACC, Big 12, Big 10, CUSA, MAC and Mountain West, Pac 12, SEC, Sunbelt, 4 FBS Independants. Each champion should be invited to CFP. Have 2 wild card teams then you get 12. The 4 Independents should be forced to join a conference or step down to FCS.

You then play 5 vs 12, 6 vs 11, 7 vs 10, 8 vs 9, the top 4 teams get a buy. This is the only way to get a clear champion. People might complain about seeding but at least everyone gets a chance.

If people cry too many games then cut the season to 10 or 11 games. Plus eliminate the bowl games. They are a waste of money and time.

 

[Chazz Michael Michaels]

Root, I actually agree with you on something. Good post. If they really want it to be decided on the field, without de-valuing the season and CCGs, then make it an 8 team playoff:
-The 5 Power Five conference champs get auto bid;
-Three at-large bids - giving at least 1 of the 3 at-large bids to the highest ranked Group of 5 team.

Good topic Allen. The BCS system and the current one both were full of flaws. However one thing the BCS did was make conference championships mean something...instead of leaving the invites up to the opinions of a bunch of folks around a conference table. The current system, unlike the basketball model, also nearly guarantees that a non P5 school will never get to the promise land. My opinion...the flawed BCS was replaced with a worse system put together for blue blood dominance and ESPN income. It is bogus.

 

[Shirley Knott]

Yes I can see your reasoning. UCF did have a Miami, Fl game cancelled due to a hurricane. Pun not intended.

Anytime anywhere sounds like a Bob Huggins quote. Don Nehlen I believe used the same words as well.

Biggest problem with the words P5 and G5 are P5 schools not wanting to return the game to a G5 stadium. Media needs to go back to just saying Division 1. Either that or NCAA needs to separate the 5 conferences to another level. With G5 having their own playoff system.

Money is killing college football.

You always have the opportunity to watch/select a favorite d2/3 team and ignore the money issues..

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers]

Central Florida beat

Florida International

Maryland

Memphis

Cincinnati

East Carolina

Navy

Austin Peay

SMU

Connecticut

Temple

South Florida

Memphis

Auburn


Auburn was #10

Memphis was #25


Oklahoma beat #5 Ohio State, #9 TCU (twice), #14 Oklahoma State


Not even close


Georgia split with #10 Auburn, beat #11 Notre Dame, #25 Memphis

Closer, but Central Florida not better


Alabama #18 LSU, #19 Mississippi State

Pretty close to what Central Florida did among top 25.

Who really thinks Central Florida should have gotten in over Alabama?

You can't reward a team for beating Auburn and playing nobodies the rest of the season.

That said, I will always favor 4 conferences of 16 teams and let the 8 division winners into the playoffs. In effect, you have 8 conference (the division winners).

 

[Rootmaster]

Please stop the red font and poorly laid out, long drawn out, posts. Really...it doesn't get you the kind of attention you seem to need so badly. Oh wait...

Please stop the red font and poorly laid out, long drawn out, posts. Really...it doesn't get you the kind of attention you seem to need so badly.

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

Central Florida beat

Florida International

Maryland

Memphis

Cincinnati

East Carolina

Navy

Austin Peay

SMU

Connecticut

Temple

South Florida

Memphis

Auburn


Auburn was #10

Memphis was #25


Oklahoma beat #5 Ohio State, #9 TCU (twice), #14 Oklahoma State


Not even close


Georgia split with #10 Auburn, beat #11 Notre Dame, #25 Memphis

Closer, but Central Florida not better


Alabama #18 LSU, #19 Mississippi State

Pretty close to what Central Florida did among top 25.

Who really thinks Central Florida should have gotten in over Alabama?

You can't reward a team for beating Auburn and playing nobodies the rest of the season.

That said, I will always favor 4 conferences of 16 teams and let the 8 division winners into the playoffs. In effect, you have 8 conference (the division winners).

Central Florida beat A Maryland team that beat a Texas team in Austin. I'm surprised you're not showing them some more love considering you're the Big 12's biggest Cheer leader.

 

[MikeRafone]

The advent of the playoff have killed the non P-5's. Their brand doesn't matter any longer. All networks and fans are concerned about are the BCS leagues. It's a damned shame.

 

[3xWVUenginEER]

Someone mentioned Pitts National Titles awarded by the Pittsburgh Post Gazette. Alabama has a few that were awarded based on similar or lesser rated credentials.

Some of these so called Titles are as legit as the Titles earned in Pro Rasslin

 

[WVUALLEN]

Pitt attendance numbers are also fabricated.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

UCF left out of playoffs last year. In BCS era they are probably closer at making the title game. With CFP it pretty much guarantees only P5 schools make it in. Two of the CFP titles were won by 2 teams that didn't even win their conference. Ohio State and Alabama.

But Ohio State and Bama were the two best teams those years so why the beef?

 

[Pitt4Life34]

Can anyone explain to me why we actually NEED a clear "National Champion"? Other than to make ESPN more money, of course...

Personally, I'd be fine with letting everyone determine their own National Champions, like the way it used to be. Sure, it meant that Pitt got to claim 263 national championships as awarded by the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, but every system since has had its own glaring flaws. The CFP, BCS, Bowl Alliance, and Bowl Coalition can go suck eggs.

I think the CFP and CFA are the best

 

[Rootmaster]

Shorter seasons. Conference champions of so called P5 and three others to playoffs. Add eight at large berths. 16 teams in December Madness. Championship game in January. Basketball goes football model. Use minor bowls for best of the rest to add games and revenue...like NIT. Problem solved.

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers]

Please stop the red font and poorly laid out, long drawn out, posts. Really...it doesn't get you the kind of attention you seem to need so badly. Oh wait...

Please stop the red font and poorly laid out, long drawn out, posts. Really...it doesn't get you the kind of attention you seem to need so badly.

Ah, another person who doesn't like a color that doesn't match theirs. That is one of the major problems in America.

 

[Rootmaster]

Ah, another person who doesn't like a color that doesn't match theirs. That is one of the major problems in America

OK...I realize you can be more than a bit obtuse but this.....lol.

 

[WVUALLEN]

But Ohio State and Bama were the two best teams those years so why the beef?

The rule was win your conference play the golden goose egg game 13. Now it's changed to who do we need to pump up the ratings and get big green dollars.

 

[Woody in Helvetia]

UCF did not do enough to even get true consideration. Victory over Maryland was not a big deal - Maryland was never again the same team that beat Texas. They lost too many players including QBs. And they were just barely holding on in the Texas game due to injuries that occurred during the Texas game. And the win against Auburn is not valid. When teams get knocked out before a bowl game their effort in the bowl can be very marginal.

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers]

UCF did not do enough to even get true consideration. Victory over Maryland was not a big deal - Maryland was never again the same team that beat Texas. They lost too many players including QBs. And they were just barely holding on in the Texas game due to injuries that occurred during the Texas game. And the win against Auburn is not valid. When teams get knocked out before a bowl game their effort in the bowl can be very marginal.

Always good to have Woody chime in with his wise observations. Sure a great improvement over the name-calling among posters. Who cares about the posters? We all want info about WVU.