Two of the Jew's Holiest sites are now property of Arabs

[WVPATX]

The Temple Mount and the Western Wall. It is the same as proclaiming Mecca to be Jewish property. I realize the Muslims think the sites are holy also, but these sites fall behind Mecca in importance and the resolution only refers to these sites by their Arabic names.

What will Trump do?

 

[MountaineerWV]

The Temple Mount and the Western Wall. It is the same as proclaiming Mecca to be Jewish property. I realize the Muslims think the sites are holy also, but these sites fall behind Mecca in importance and the resolution only refers to these sites by their Arabic names.

What will Trump do?

Again, research may help just a bit......just an excerpt......

Among Sunni Muslims, the Mount is widely considered the third holiest site in Islam.

 

[WVPATX]

Again, research may help just a bit......just an excerpt......

Among Sunni Muslims, the Mount is widely considered the third holiest site in Islam.

You're reading comprehension is not very good. As I posted, the Arabs consider the site holy also. But the resolution only refers to them by their Arabic name. This is an enormous slap in the face and a ridiculous action on Obama's part. The Mount is the Jew's holiest site. Not 3rd, but 1st.

And don't forget, Obama turned over one of the Christian's holiest sites as well. The Via Dolorosa is a street within the Old City of Jerusalem, held to be the path that Jesus walked on the way to his crucifixion. This is now Muslim property.

 

[MountaineerWV]

You're reading comprehension is not very good. As I posted, the Arabs consider the site holy also. But the resolution only refers to them by their Arabic name. This is an enormous slap in the face and a ridiculous action on Obama's part. The Mount is the Jew's holiest site. Not 3rd, but 1st.

And don't forget, Obama turned over one of the Christian's holiest sites as well. The Via Dolorosa is a street within the Old City of Jerusalem, held to be the path that Jesus walked on the way to his crucifixion. This is now Muslim property.

You made it sound like it was WAAAYYYY down on their list of holy sites. Mecca is #1, but this one is up there as well.

 

[WVPATX]

You made it sound like it was WAAAYYYY down on their list of holy sites. Mecca is #1, but this one is up there as well.

This is what I posted:

I realize the Muslims think the sites are holy also, but these sites fall behind Mecca.

How does that make it sound WAAAYYYY down? And what about the Christian site? Big time screw up that only demonstrates Obama's antipathy toward the Jews.

 

[MountaineerWV]

This is what I posted:

I realize the Muslims think the sites are holy also, but these sites fall behind Mecca.

How does that make it sound WAAAYYYY down? And what about the Christian site? Big time screw up that only demonstrates Obama's antipathy toward the Jews.

Ummm......"I realize the Muslims think the sites are holy also".......again, I guess I'm playing "semantics" but you didn't suggest HOW HIGHLY they think of this as a holy site......

....and things like this bothers you, HOWEVER, when the federal government wants to run pipelines through Native American lands you are OK with it......even in the Sioux's MOST SACRED area of the Dakotas? Interesting.......

 

[WVPATX]

Ummm......"I realize the Muslims think the sites are holy also".......again, I guess I'm playing "semantics" but you didn't suggest HOW HIGHLY they think of this as a holy site......

....and things like this bothers you, HOWEVER, when the federal government wants to run pipelines through Native American lands you are OK with it......even in the Sioux's MOST SACRED area of the Dakotas? Interesting.......

My point was that the Feds approved the pipeline. The Feds, run by Obama, a liberal democrat. Once the Feds approved the pipeline and the company invested $3.4B on that permit, the Feds can't now turnaround and declare the permit void or change the term of the effort.

And need I remind you, the Sioux NEVER showed up to even one meeting complaining about the proposed pipeline route. Not one time. This is their fault. The Jews on the other hand vigorously opposed this resolution. Two very, very different situations.

If the Feds want to secure the site for the Sioux, they need to reimburse ETE for the cost of rerouting the pipeline and the cost of the delays in starting the flow of energy through the pipeline.

 

[MountaineerWV]

My point was that the Feds approved the pipeline. The Feds, run by Obama, a liberal democrat. Once the Feds approved the pipeline and the company invested $3.4B on that permit, the Feds can't now turnaround and declare the permit void or change the term of the effort.

And need I remind you, the Sioux NEVER showed up to even one meeting complaining about the proposed pipeline route. Not one time. This is their fault. The Jews on the other hand vigorously opposed this resolution. Two very, very different situations.

If the Feds want to secure the site for the Sioux, they need to reimburse ETE for the cost of rerouting the pipeline and the cost of the delays in starting the flow of energy through the pipeline.

Yeah.....ok.......[pfftt]

 

[MountaineerWV]

My point was that the Feds approved the pipeline. The Feds, run by Obama, a liberal democrat. Once the Feds approved the pipeline and the company invested $3.4B on that permit, the Feds can't now turnaround and declare the permit void or change the term of the effort.

And need I remind you, the Sioux NEVER showed up to even one meeting complaining about the proposed pipeline route. Not one time. This is their fault. The Jews on the other hand vigorously opposed this resolution. Two very, very different situations.

If the Feds want to secure the site for the Sioux, they need to reimburse ETE for the cost of rerouting the pipeline and the cost of the delays in starting the flow of energy through the pipeline.

"The Standing Rock Sioux say that in this case the Army Corps didn't consult them. The Army Corps and Dakota Access says they did..."

 

[CAJUNEER]

The Temple Mount and the Western Wall. It is the same as proclaiming Mecca to be Jewish property. I realize the Muslims think the sites are holy also, but these sites fall behind Mecca in importance and the resolution only refers to these sites by their Arabic names.

What will Trump do?

Those are not two separate sites. The Western Wall is the western wall of the Temple Mount.

 

[WVPATX]

Yeah.....ok.......[pfftt]

What in my post was incorrect? Your liberal sensibilities may be hurt, but what was incorrect?

http://stanfordreview.org/article/the-hypocrisy-of-the-north-dakota-pipeline-protests/

Stanford review article.

 

[MountaineerWV]

Not to mention the Great Sioux Nation has audio of them objecting to the route way before construction began......but the Army Corps and the Dakota Access Pipeline people are doing a good job of deflection and misinformation to the public to gain support.....much of what you have bought in to.

 

[WVPATX]

Those are not two separate sites. The Western Wall is the western wall of the Temple Mount.

They are considered two sites. The Temple Mount is literally a hill or mountain.. The Western Wall is located within the area of the Temple Mount.

The Temple Mount is the holiest site in Judaism, which regards it as the place where God's divine presence is manifested more than in any other place. According to the rabbinic sages whose debates produced the Talmud, it was from here the world expanded into its present form and where God gathered the dust used to create the first human, Adam.[2]

Since at least the first century CE, the site has been associated in Judaism with Mount Moriah (Hebrew: הַר הַמוריה‎‎, Har HaMōriyā); Mount Moriah is the name given by the Hebrew Bible to the location of Abraham's binding of Isaac,[2] this identification being perpetuated by Jewish and Christian tradition.

Several passages in the Hebrew Bible indicate that during the time when they were written, the Temple Mount was identified as Mount Zion.[3] The Mount Zion mentioned in the later parts of the Book of Isaiah(Isaiah 60:14), in the Book of Psalms, and the First Book of Maccabees (c. 2nd century BCE) seems to refer to the top of the hill, generally known as the Temple Mount.[3] According to the Book of Samuel, Mount Zion was the site of the Jebusite fortress called the "stronghold of Zion", but once the First Templewas erected, according to the Bible, at the top of the Eastern Hill ("Temple Mount"), the name "Mount Zion" migrated there too.[3] The name later migrated for a last time, this time to Jerusalem's Western Hill.[3]

 

[WVPATX]

Not to mention the Great Sioux Nation has audio of them objecting to the route way before construction began......but the Army Corps and the Dakota Access Pipeline people are doing a good job of deflection and misinformation to the public to gain support.....much of what you have bought in to.

From the Stanford arcticle:

For over two years, the pipeline company, North Dakotan politicians, and the public have discussed their priorities in countless townhalls. They brought forward questions and problems, debated permit rights and eminent domain, and finally reached a proposal that was satisfactory to everyone who participated.

Meanwhile, the tribes who now claim the pipeline crosses their lands and threatens their water failed to attend any of the state’s public comment meetings. They did not submit written comments that the state evaluates to determine whether projects should go ahead. They were also offered the chance to meet the project’s officials on seven occasions – the exact “legal protections” that the Stanford American Indian Organization demanded indigenous people be given. The tribes refused each time.

Not every member of the tribes opposes the pipeline. But it is dishonest to say the protesters engaged in good-faith political discourse. After dozens of opportunities to engage and oppose the pipeline through the political process, the tribes failed to voice a complaint. That they respond today with violence is unacceptable.

 

[MountaineerWV]

From the Stanford arcticle:

For over two years, the pipeline company, North Dakotan politicians, and the public have discussed their priorities in countless townhalls. They brought forward questions and problems, debated permit rights and eminent domain, and finally reached a proposal that was satisfactory to everyone who participated.

Meanwhile, the tribes who now claim the pipeline crosses their lands and threatens their water failed to attend any of the state’s public comment meetings. They did not submit written comments that the state evaluates to determine whether projects should go ahead. They were also offered the chance to meet the project’s officials on seven occasions – the exact “legal protections” that the Stanford American Indian Organization demanded indigenous people be given. The tribes refused each time.

Not every member of the tribes opposes the pipeline. But it is dishonest to say the protesters engaged in good-faith political discourse. After dozens of opportunities to engage and oppose the pipeline through the political process, the tribes failed to voice a complaint. That they respond today with violence is unacceptable.

So, you are calling the Sioux liars? Wonder why you won't call Jews, Christians, etc. liars? Just Indians and Muslims.....

 

[dave]

So, you are calling the Sioux liars? Wonder why you won't call Jews, Christians, etc. liars? Just Indians and Muslims.....

Did your mom have any children who lived?

 

[WVPATX]

So, you are calling the Sioux liars? Wonder why you won't call Jews, Christians, etc. liars? Just Indians and Muslims.....

If the shoe fits:

Meanwhile, the tribes who now claim the pipeline crosses their lands and threatens their water failed to attend any of the state’s public comment meetings. They did not submit written comments that the state evaluates to determine whether projects should go ahead. They were also offered the chance to meet the project’s officials on seven occasions – the exact “legal protections” that the Stanford American Indian Organization demandedindigenous people be given. The tribes refused each time.

No written comments, which are critical. Did not attend 7 meetings which are the number required by law. The Sioux made their own bed by refusing to provide written comments and refusing to attend the required meetings.

 

[CAJUNEER]

They are considered two sites. The Temple Mount is literally a hill or mountain.. The Western Wall is located within the area of the Temple Mount.

The Temple Mount is the holiest site in Judaism, which regards it as the place where God's divine presence is manifested more than in any other place. According to the rabbinic sages whose debates produced the Talmud, it was from here the world expanded into its present form and where God gathered the dust used to create the first human, Adam.[2]

Since at least the first century CE, the site has been associated in Judaism with Mount Moriah (Hebrew: הַר הַמוריה‎‎, Har HaMōriyā); Mount Moriah is the name given by the Hebrew Bible to the location of Abraham's binding of Isaac,[2] this identification being perpetuated by Jewish and Christian tradition.

Several passages in the Hebrew Bible indicate that during the time when they were written, the Temple Mount was identified as Mount Zion.[3] The Mount Zion mentioned in the later parts of the Book of Isaiah(Isaiah 60:14), in the Book of Psalms, and the First Book of Maccabees (c. 2nd century BCE) seems to refer to the top of the hill, generally known as the Temple Mount.[3] According to the Book of Samuel, Mount Zion was the site of the Jebusite fortress called the "stronghold of Zion", but once the First Templewas erected, according to the Bible, at the top of the Eastern Hill ("Temple Mount"), the name "Mount Zion" migrated there too.[3] The name later migrated for a last time, this time to Jerusalem's Western Hill.[3]

I’ve spent a lot of time at the site. It’s not considered two sites. The Western Wall is not just “within the area of the Temple Mount.” It is literally the western wall of the Temple Mount.

 

[Boomboom521]

The Temple Mount and the Western Wall. It is the same as proclaiming Mecca to be Jewish property. I realize the Muslims think the sites are holy also, but these sites fall behind Mecca in importance and the resolution only refers to these sites by their Arabic names.

What will Trump do?

It's sacred land to Arabs as well.

 

[WVPATX]

It's sacred land to Arabs as well.

Yes, their 3rd most sacred site. Yet the resolution handing it over to the Arabs uses only the Arab word for this location.

I don't think the Arabs would be happy if the U.N. gave Mecca to the Jews.

 

[MountaineerWV]

If the shoe fits:

Meanwhile, the tribes who now claim the pipeline crosses their lands and threatens their water failed to attend any of the state’s public comment meetings. They did not submit written comments that the state evaluates to determine whether projects should go ahead. They were also offered the chance to meet the project’s officials on seven occasions – the exact “legal protections” that the Stanford American Indian Organization demandedindigenous people be given. The tribes refused each time.

No written comments, which are critical. Did not attend 7 meetings which are the number required by law. The Sioux made their own bed by refusing to provide written comments and refusing to attend the required meetings.

If the shoe fits? Wow. Calling Sioux leaders liars. Buying in to the propaganda. Amazing how you guys ripped the news during the election for it's "false" claims, but you buy this 100%........

 

[MountaineerWV]

Yes, their 3rd most sacred site. Yet the resolution handing it over to the Arabs uses only the Arab word for this location.

I don't think the Arabs would be happy if the U.N. gave Mecca to the Jews.

Mecca isn't a holy site for the Jews, now is it?

 

[WVPATX]

Mecca isn't a holy site for the Jews, now is it?

It doesn't matter. The Temple Mount is the Greatest Jewish Holy Site and given to the Arab Muslims. That is a fact. Mecca is the greatest Muslim holy site. I don't think they would like it being taken away. That is my point.

The area given to the Arab Muslims also contains very holy Christian sites. Obama stepped in this one big time. He is so petty. He stabs Israel in the back while a lame duck and knowing he can never run again. Coward.

 

[MountaineerWV]

It doesn't matter. The Temple Mount is the Greatest Jewish Holy Site and given to the Arab Muslims. That is a fact. Mecca is the greatest Muslim holy site. I don't think they would like it being taken away. That is my point.

The area given to the Arab Muslims also contains very holy Christian sites. Obama stepped in this one big time. He is so petty. He stabs Israel in the back while a lame duck and knowing he can never run again. Coward.

Again, so says you. The administration says they didn't. But, again, you believe the postings from the ultra conservative, and even some liberal, news outposts that you, yourself, condemned during the election. Now, suddenly, all news is "real" and not "fake".

 

[WVPATX]

If the shoe fits? Wow. Calling Sioux leaders liars. Buying in to the propaganda. Amazing how you guys ripped the news during the election for it's "false" claims, but you buy this 100%........

They have an audio of a meeting with ETE. But that means NOTHING. They never attended any of the 7 meetings to protest the construction. They never submitted anything in writing as required. This thing was considered for two years and the Sioux produce one audio of a single meeting with ETE?

They missed their chance to protest. You do know, BTW, that another pipeline runs on a very similar route as this one?

 

[Boomboom521]

Yes, their 3rd most sacred site. Yet the resolution handing it over to the Arabs uses only the Arab word for this location.

I don't think the Arabs would be happy if the U.N. gave Mecca to the Jews.

Agreed on that one

 

[Boomboom521]

If the shoe fits:

Meanwhile, the tribes who now claim the pipeline crosses their lands and threatens their water failed to attend any of the state’s public comment meetings. They did not submit written comments that the state evaluates to determine whether projects should go ahead. They were also offered the chance to meet the project’s officials on seven occasions – the exact “legal protections” that the Stanford American Indian Organization demandedindigenous people be given. The tribes refused each time.

No written comments, which are critical. Did not attend 7 meetings which are the number required by law. The Sioux made their own bed by refusing to provide written comments and refusing to attend the required meetings.

Seriously? The Sioux were a beautiful people with a beautiful belief system and community life. Many things can be learned from their practices. We basically attempted genocide on their people and destroyed their sacred black hills for gold. Can we just give them a freaking break please? They've earned it

 

[Boomboom521]

They have an audio of a meeting with ETE. But that means NOTHING. They never attended any of the 7 meetings to protest the construction. They never submitted anything in writing as required. This thing was considered for two years and the Sioux produce one audio of a single meeting with ETE?

They missed their chance to protest. You do know, BTW, that another pipeline runs on a very similar route as this one?

So what? Do you know the life we have resigned this nation to?

 

[WVPATX]

So what? Do you know the life we have resigned this nation to?

So what is your solution? The Feds granted the permit because over a 2 year period, the Sioux did not protest either in writing or by not attending the 7 meetings held just for them.

As a result, ETE invested $3.4B to date.

 

[Boomboom521]

So what is your solution? The Feds granted the permit because over a 2 year period, the Sioux did not protest either in writing or by not attending the 7 meetings held just for them.

As a result, ETE invested $3.4B to date.

A totally liberal pussy solution of forget the money, give the Sioux what they want.

You make good points, but the above would still be my stance. Without any real ammo for debate but history.

 

[WVPATX]

A totally liberal pussy solution of forget the money, give the Sioux what they want.

You make good points, but the above would still be my stance. Without any real ammo for debate but history.

You do know that an existing pipeline runs next to this proposed pipeline? And to simply screw the stockholders of this company isn't right. If the Feds want to reroute the pipeline after they gave it their blessing, why not pay ETE to reroute the pipeline and pay them for the loss or revenue for any delays?

 

[Boomboom521]

You do know that an existing pipeline runs next to this proposed pipeline? And to simply screw the stockholders of this company isn't right. If the Feds want to reroute the pipeline after they gave it their blessing, why not pay ETE to reroute the pipeline and pay them for the loss or revenue for any delays?

The Sioux aren't protesting the new line?

 

[WVPATX]

The Sioux aren't protesting the new line?

Yes, they are protesting the new pipeline. But apparently the old pipeline did not bother them.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Seriously? The Sioux were a beautiful people with a beautiful belief system and community life. Many things can be learned from their practices. We basically attempted genocide on their people and destroyed their sacred black hills for gold. Can we just give them a freaking break please? They've earned it

Uggghhh, the old noble savage chestnut. I'm not paying for the sins of 100+ years ago nor will I apply today's morality to what occurred then. It's sucks what happened to the Native Americans but it's not like they weren't fvcking each other over as well, because the Sioux absolutely was guilty of it.

Another special interest group that I'd love to just shut the fvck up.

 

[D. Denzil Finney]

If the shoe fits:

Meanwhile, the tribes who now claim the pipeline crosses their lands and threatens their water failed to attend any of the state’s public comment meetings. They did not submit written comments that the state evaluates to determine whether projects should go ahead. They were also offered the chance to meet the project’s officials on seven occasions – the exact “legal protections” that the Stanford American Indian Organization demandedindigenous people be given. The tribes refused each time.

No written comments, which are critical. Did not attend 7 meetings which are the number required by law. The Sioux made their own bed by refusing to provide written comments and refusing to attend the required meetings.

I know this will probably cause a shat storm. So be it.

The Temple Mount and the Western Wall. It is the same as proclaiming Mecca to be Jewish property. I realize the Muslims think the sites are holy also, but these sites fall behind Mecca in importance and the resolution only refers to these sites by their Arabic names.

What will Trump do?

You do realize that Jerusalem is divided into three sectors, Jewish, Muslim and Christian . Each have their own sector and each have their own Holy Place--Jews have The Temple Mount, Muslims have The Dome of the Rock and the Christians have their own Temple. The Israelis believe it all belongs to them and consider it as annexed land. The United Nations, to include The U.S.A., still holds with the settlement of dividing Jerusalem which was done following the 2nd WW. This is probably the reason for Tel Aviv being the Capital of Israel. All of the Foreign Embassys are located in Tel Aviv.

 

[CAJUNEER]

I'm not paying for the sins of 100+ years ago nor will I apply today's morality to what occurred then.

Common sense, right?

 

[CAJUNEER]

You do realize that Jerusalem is divided into three sectors, Jewish, Muslim and Christian . Each have their own sector and each have their own Holy Place--Jews have The Temple Mount, Muslims have The Dome of the Rock and the Christians have their own Temple. The Israelis believe it all belongs to them and consider it as annexed land. The United Nations, to include The U.S.A., still holds with the settlement of dividing Jerusalem which was done following the 2nd WW. This is probably the reason for Tel Aviv being the Capital of Israel. All of the Foreign Embassys are located in Tel Aviv.

Man, you almost need to research your claims one-by-one. I'll get you started:

The Knesset in Jerusalem.

 

[D. Denzil Finney]

Man, you almost need to research your claims one-by-one. I'll get you started:

The Knesset in Jerusalem.

The provided link displays my information source.

http://alj.am/1yJA4IY

 

[WVPATX]

I know this will probably cause a shat storm. So be it.

You do realize that Jerusalem is divided into three sectors, Jewish, Muslim and Christian . Each have their own sector and each have their own Holy Place--Jews have The Temple Mount, Muslims have The Dome of the Rock and the Christians have their own Temple. The Israelis believe it all belongs to them and consider it as annexed land. The United Nations, to include The U.S.A., still holds with the settlement of dividing Jerusalem which was done following the 2nd WW. This is probably the reason for Tel Aviv being the Capital of Israel. All of the Foreign Embassys are located in Tel Aviv.

I am fully aware that both the Jews iand Muslims claim Jerusalem. I am not sure what that has to do with this debate. This is a debate is about why the Obama administration gave to the Muslims the most holy sites in Judaism.

And by the way Trump has committed to moving our Embassy to Jerusalem. I believe it will happen. Now more than ever after Obama pulled this stunt.

 

[CAJUNEER]

The provided link displays my information source.

http://alj.am/1yJA4IY

My point is the perspective from which you wrote is Palestinian oriented. The capitol is Jerusalem, not Tel Aviv, no matter where the embassies are. The land is not considered annexed. It's considered eternally Israel's, won back during the Six-Day War.