ADVERTISEMENT

Trump Tower is not Obama's first Rodeo

Lucky for us, POTUS can de-classify the FISA warrant(s) for all of us to see! I'm on the edge of my seat.

Me too Coop, me too. I can't wait to see what they (DOJ) were up to, or what they were looking for? Who leaked the data, who hacked the DNC and why?

Know what Coop? It wasn't the Russians, and it wasn't to help Trump, it was whoever was out to try and destroy him.
 
Last edited:
Me too Coop, me too. I can't wait to see what they (DOJ) were up to, or what they were looking for? Who leaked the data, who hacked the DNC and why?

Know what Coop? It wasn't the Russians, and it wasn't to help Trump, it was to try and destroy him.
lol.
 
My sarcasm countryroads89 is in direct response to Leftist hypocrisy. Like you castigating me for pointing out Keith Ellison's hatred of Jewish people.

If there were no FISA warrants issued (as I believe Coop implies), then the media got it wrong since they originated the report. Trump never mentioned FISA. Trump mentioned wire taps. If wire taps were not used, the media, specifically the NY Times, got it wrong again.

In an article I posted just yesterday, Trump Tower surveillance could have taken many forms. We know Flynn's conversation was surveilled and the transcript leaked. We know that Sessions was surveilled. Under what warrant? For what reason? And who disclosed this information illegally to the media? We know Obama signed that order 14 days before leaving office enabling intelligence to share raw intelligence with 15 other agencies before it was analyzed. Makes it very difficult to ID the leaker or leakers. Why did he do this just before leaving office? I can think of only one reason.
 
If there were no FISA warrants issued (as I believe Coop implies), then the media got it wrong since they originated the report. Trump never mentioned FISA. Trump mentioned wire taps. If wire taps were not used, the media, specifically the NY Times, got it wrong again.

In an article I posted just yesterday, Trump Tower surveillance could have taken many forms. We know Flynn's conversation was surveilled and the transcript leaked. We know that Sessions was surveilled. Under what warrant? For what reason? And who disclosed this information illegally to the media? We know Obama signed that order 14 days before leaving office enabling intelligence to share raw intelligence with 15 other agencies before it was analyzed. Makes it very difficult to ID the leaker or leakers. Why did he do this just before leaving office? I can think of only one reason.

you have laid out the scenario very well PAX. Coop as I said is just in denial, suggesting only Trump has been wrong and that he falsely claimed his wires were tapped.

Similar to moe's meltdown, Coop in my opinion is having a hard time coming to terms with the fact that the Media has been lying to us, and Trump's been telling the Truth...which is the exact opposite of what they've been bombarding us with.
 
Last edited:
you have laid out the scenario very well PAX. Coop as I said is just in denial, suggesting only Trump has been wrong and that he falsely claimed his wires were tapped.

Similar to moe's meltdown, Coop in my opinion is having a hard time coming to terms with the fact that the Media has been lying to us, and Trump's been telling the Truth...which the exact opposite of what they've been bombarding us with.

Levin laid out all the media reports, the vast majority from liberal media outlets. Were they all wrong? Perhaps. But with Flynn's transcript leaking, with Sessions meeting being leaked, Trump likely assumed the media reporting was accurate and he or his aides surveilled. Not a far leap, imo.
 
I'm not admitting anything. I don't know what was done. But I know it is perfectly legal for US intel agencies to monitor foreign govts. It's what they do. If in the process of monitoring the Russians, and the Russians talk to the Trumps, then those convos will be monitored. What's so hard to understand about that? You think we haven't been monitoring the Russian embassy and their staff in DC for the past 75 years? You are not very bright.

Yes we do as you suggest here to Foreigners RPJ, but we don't do it to our own. If Trump or his surrogates were guilty of colluding with Russians as you on the Left suggest, don't you think with all of the other leaking that's been going on from this surveillance those arrangements would have been leaked out too? Where are they?

So again I ask, where is this evidence of Trump working with Russians to change the outcome of the election RPJ? If that's not what all of this surveillance has uncovered, why is anything else being leaked out or even the existence of the surveillance being denied?

We have a serious problem here to get to the bottom of RPJ, and I'd think you'd want answers to these questions instead of calling Trump names or continuing to suggest he's behind it with the Russians.
 
Agreed ex-pat. I'm willing to wait for the evidence of what the DOJ was up to. If it was Trump cavorting with the Russians, fine. Let's hear it.

If it was simple political muckraking on Trump to discredit him...let's hear that too.

I'm not suggesting Obama was up to nefarious objectives, but why was intelligence that apparently was being gathered on Trump constantly being leaked out before any conclusions were reached?

Does that not smack of a "conspiracy" to you ex-pat? What were they (leakers) up to?

Let's find out.
Let's extrapolate our own conspiracy theory then.

Trump tweets over the weekend that "Obama wiretapped me.." or something to that effect. Goes on for a couple of tweets about how this happened and that happened, bad (or sick) guy...blah..blah..blah. Agreed? That's how it started.

So let's buy local. Over the weekend many on this board, PATX for one, brought all kinds of "documentation" as evidence of this fact while the White House brought nothing. Their official stance as of now is, and I just heard Spicer in a briefing say, that the WH has no further comment and requests that Congress investigate. Ok, fine.

In the meantime, Trump/the WH could find any information about an alleged wire tap at Trump Tower by making a couple of phone calls. Nothing has happened. At the same time multiple individuals have come forward saying that there is nothing to this or that, as an informed individual, they no nothing about any wire taps. FBI Director Comey and former NI Director Clapper have said this; they would/should know. And here's why:

"The mission of the FBI is to protect and defend the United States against terrorist and foreign intelligence threats, to uphold and enforce the criminal laws of the United States, and to provide leadership and criminal justice services to federal, state, municipal, and international agencies and partners; and to perform these responsibilities in a manner that is responsive to the needs of the public and is faithful to the Constitution of the United States."

So Comey should know unless this is a CIA/NSA or other alphabet soup agency operation. Just sayin'.

Comey has asked the DOJ to refute these allegations. DOJ has remained silent. Probably, one might guess, for one of two reasons: there is an action at Trump Tower that IS STILL ON-GOING (but probably not for long now) or there is no there, there and they are covering the bosses ass.

It has been suggested that Trump got his information from a Mark Levin/Brietbart article or tweet or podcast. PATX alluded to this in an earlier post as part of his "documentation" along with the FISA court records (alleged) of wire tap requests.

Amazingly no one has challenged Levin or Breitbart on the validity of the article/tweet/podcast. If this had come from a MSM outlet cries for blood and taunts of Fake News would abound. But no real challenges that I can see have come forward even though Levin is highly regarded as a "Conspiracy Theorist".

It is interesting that no one has challenged the fact that if the FISA court did grant permission for a wire tap that there was "probable cause" to do so. Meaning that something nefarious might be afoot somewhere in Trump Tower, if that was the actual target (not yet substantiated). And that the target may or may not actually be Trump or his election organization. Russian Banks that are tenants of Trump Tower have been mentioned, although again not substantiated in any way I have seen, other than posts on this board.

So here's a new conspiracy theory: Trump is really pissed about giving a great speech, speech for all time on Monday at the Congressional Joint Session only to be undermined (in his opinion although many believe it was the right thing to do) by Session's recuse of the DOJ/Trump/Russia affair. Then he is caught in a fit of rage dressing down the WH staff for letting that happen and ruining his SPEECH OF ALL TIME and shifting the spotlight elsewhere. Now he looks like a fool on national media, the one's he hates, and is losing sleep at Mar-A-Lago and he's got an important golf match in the morning and this is killing him.

To feel better he drags up this tidbit about wire taps (now spelled correctly) to deflect attention from the failures of the week (although to many he now creates a potential new failure). In the early morning hours, alone in his bedroom, he flails away at his smart phone on Twitter, feeling better with every keystroke.

Unfortunately he causes another new firestorm that continues to undermine his presidency.

So this is my conspiracy theory, which is just as good as anybody else's theory on what really happened. It will be investigated just like the 3 million illegal voters who stole the popular vote from Trump, that the Inaugural crowd was the largest ever, that he has received numerous environmental awards,that he got more electoral votes than any one since Reagan, and on and on and on...
 
Let's extrapolate our own conspiracy theory then.

Trump tweets over the weekend that "Obama wiretapped me.." or something to that effect. Goes on for a couple of tweets about how this happened and that happened, bad (or sick) guy...blah..blah..blah. Agreed? That's how it started.

So let's buy local. Over the weekend many on this board, PATX for one, brought all kinds of "documentation" as evidence of this fact while the White House brought nothing. Their official stance as of now is, and I just heard Spicer in a briefing say, that the WH has no further comment and requests that Congress investigate. Ok, fine.

In the meantime, Trump/the WH could find any information about an alleged wire tap at Trump Tower by making a couple of phone calls. Nothing has happened. At the same time multiple individuals have come forward saying that there is nothing to this or that, as an informed individual, they no nothing about any wire taps. FBI Director Comey and former NI Director Clapper have said this; they would/should know. And here's why:

"The mission of the FBI is to protect and defend the United States against terrorist and foreign intelligence threats, to uphold and enforce the criminal laws of the United States, and to provide leadership and criminal justice services to federal, state, municipal, and international agencies and partners; and to perform these responsibilities in a manner that is responsive to the needs of the public and is faithful to the Constitution of the United States."

So Comey should know unless this is a CIA/NSA or other alphabet soup agency operation. Just sayin'.

Comey has asked the DOJ to refute these allegations. DOJ has remained silent. Probably, one might guess, for one of two reasons: there is an action at Trump Tower that IS STILL ON-GOING (but probably not for long now) or there is no there, there and they are covering the bosses ass.

It has been suggested that Trump got his information from a Mark Levin/Brietbart article or tweet or podcast. PATX alluded to this in an earlier post as part of his "documentation" along with the FISA court records (alleged) of wire tap requests.

Amazingly no one has challenged Levin or Breitbart on the validity of the article/tweet/podcast. If this had come from a MSM outlet cries for blood and taunts of Fake News would abound. But no real challenges that I can see have come forward even though Levin is highly regarded as a "Conspiracy Theorist".

It is interesting that no one has challenged the fact that if the FISA court did grant permission for a wire tap that there was "probable cause" to do so. Meaning that something nefarious might be afoot somewhere in Trump Tower, if that was the actual target (not yet substantiated). And that the target may or may not actually be Trump or his election organization. Russian Banks that are tenants of Trump Tower have been mentioned, although again not substantiated in any way I have seen, other than posts on this board.

So here's a new conspiracy theory: Trump is really pissed about giving a great speech, speech for all time on Monday at the Congressional Joint Session only to be undermined (in his opinion although many believe it was the right thing to do) by Session's recuse of the DOJ/Trump/Russia affair. Then he is caught in a fit of rage dressing down the WH staff for letting that happen and ruining his SPEECH OF ALL TIME and shifting the spotlight elsewhere. Now he looks like a fool on national media, the one's he hates, and is losing sleep at Mar-A-Lago and he's got an important golf match in the morning and this is killing him.

To feel better he drags up this tidbit about wire taps (now spelled correctly) to deflect attention from the failures of the week (although to many he now creates a potential new failure). In the early morning hours, alone in his bedroom, he flails away at his smart phone on Twitter, feeling better with every keystroke.

Unfortunately he causes another new firestorm that continues to undermine his presidency.

So this is my conspiracy theory, which is just as good as anybody else's theory on what really happened. It will be investigated just like the 3 million illegal voters who stole the popular vote from Trump, that the Inaugural crowd was the largest ever, that he has received numerous environmental awards,that he got more electoral votes than any one since Reagan, and on and on and on...


That's kinda convoluted ex-pat but entirely implausible because we just do not know why Trump was under surveillance. The evidence of his ties to Russians so far is not evident, and the DOJ, FBI, and other Obama Admin officials refuse to admit to Trump's allegations of being spied on.

Meanwhile we do have the Media reports...are they to be believed? Where did they get their information? Now we have Wikileaks saying their information was not hacked by Russians.

So honestly ex-pat your scenario could just as easily be all true as fabrication. I'm not dismissing any of it. I suspect it goes far deeper and involves far more sinister motives than you or I or Trump or anyone else is considering right now.

This is a huge scandal, and in my opinion Trump has only scratched the surface with his now infamous "tweets".

You should be a spy novel writer ex-pat, I enjoyed reading your scenario!
 
If there were no FISA warrants issued (as I believe Coop implies), then the media got it wrong since they originated the report. Trump never mentioned FISA. Trump mentioned wire taps. If wire taps were not used, the media, specifically the NY Times, got it wrong again.
LOL Lose/lose. The Times reported Trump's Tower was tapped? The media did not originate the report, alt-righters did.
 
LOL Lose/lose. The Times reported Trump's Tower was tapped? The media did not originate the report, alt-righters did.

That's not true Coop. The NYT broke that story with it's initial reporting on Flynn's alleged "secret" meeting with the Russian ambassador. They cited "intercepted conversations" from ongoing surveillance as a source for their information.
 
LOL Lose/lose. The Times reported Trump's Tower was tapped? The media did not originate the report, alt-righters did.
Obama has a secret section of the NSA that he controls. They wiretap whoever he wants. It has been reported in some journalism quarters that they also are hit men for the Clintons. There is an affiliation with the Masons and the Illuminati. They control the deep state.
 
Let's extrapolate our own conspiracy theory then.

Trump tweets over the weekend that "Obama wiretapped me.." or something to that effect. Goes on for a couple of tweets about how this happened and that happened, bad (or sick) guy...blah..blah..blah. Agreed? That's how it started.

So let's buy local. Over the weekend many on this board, PATX for one, brought all kinds of "documentation" as evidence of this fact while the White House brought nothing. Their official stance as of now is, and I just heard Spicer in a briefing say, that the WH has no further comment and requests that Congress investigate. Ok, fine.

In the meantime, Trump/the WH could find any information about an alleged wire tap at Trump Tower by making a couple of phone calls. Nothing has happened. At the same time multiple individuals have come forward saying that there is nothing to this or that, as an informed individual, they no nothing about any wire taps. FBI Director Comey and former NI Director Clapper have said this; they would/should know. And here's why:

"The mission of the FBI is to protect and defend the United States against terrorist and foreign intelligence threats, to uphold and enforce the criminal laws of the United States, and to provide leadership and criminal justice services to federal, state, municipal, and international agencies and partners; and to perform these responsibilities in a manner that is responsive to the needs of the public and is faithful to the Constitution of the United States."

So Comey should know unless this is a CIA/NSA or other alphabet soup agency operation. Just sayin'.

Comey has asked the DOJ to refute these allegations. DOJ has remained silent. Probably, one might guess, for one of two reasons: there is an action at Trump Tower that IS STILL ON-GOING (but probably not for long now) or there is no there, there and they are covering the bosses ass.

It has been suggested that Trump got his information from a Mark Levin/Brietbart article or tweet or podcast. PATX alluded to this in an earlier post as part of his "documentation" along with the FISA court records (alleged) of wire tap requests.

Amazingly no one has challenged Levin or Breitbart on the validity of the article/tweet/podcast. If this had come from a MSM outlet cries for blood and taunts of Fake News would abound. But no real challenges that I can see have come forward even though Levin is highly regarded as a "Conspiracy Theorist".

It is interesting that no one has challenged the fact that if the FISA court did grant permission for a wire tap that there was "probable cause" to do so. Meaning that something nefarious might be afoot somewhere in Trump Tower, if that was the actual target (not yet substantiated). And that the target may or may not actually be Trump or his election organization. Russian Banks that are tenants of Trump Tower have been mentioned, although again not substantiated in any way I have seen, other than posts on this board.

So here's a new conspiracy theory: Trump is really pissed about giving a great speech, speech for all time on Monday at the Congressional Joint Session only to be undermined (in his opinion although many believe it was the right thing to do) by Session's recuse of the DOJ/Trump/Russia affair. Then he is caught in a fit of rage dressing down the WH staff for letting that happen and ruining his SPEECH OF ALL TIME and shifting the spotlight elsewhere. Now he looks like a fool on national media, the one's he hates, and is losing sleep at Mar-A-Lago and he's got an important golf match in the morning and this is killing him.

To feel better he drags up this tidbit about wire taps (now spelled correctly) to deflect attention from the failures of the week (although to many he now creates a potential new failure). In the early morning hours, alone in his bedroom, he flails away at his smart phone on Twitter, feeling better with every keystroke.

Unfortunately he causes another new firestorm that continues to undermine his presidency.

So this is my conspiracy theory, which is just as good as anybody else's theory on what really happened. It will be investigated just like the 3 million illegal voters who stole the popular vote from Trump, that the Inaugural crowd was the largest ever, that he has received numerous environmental awards,that he got more electoral votes than any one since Reagan, and on and on and on...

What you are saying is very plausible. But, at least in my mind, a couple questions arise. The first are the leaks. First Flynn's transcript (which is very, very hard to come by) and the Sessions' leak. Who, how, why, where, etc. Obviously this is a felony. Who authorized the surveillance. How was it conducted. Who signed off on the surveillance. Why? What evidence warranted surveillance? Flynn was the innocent party and our laws require that information be destroyed. Same with Sessions. Comey and Clapper both deny a FISA warrant. If not FISA, then how? Criminal warrant? Neither Clapper nor Comey would know about that.

The second is why did Obama 14 days before leaving office sign that order giving all 15 intelligence services access to raw, unfiltered, unanalyzed, unsummarized, un contextualized data? Only one reason I can discern, tougher to track the leakers.

The NY Times reported that Obama's administration left "booby traps." Was this one of them?

Trump's move was actually brilliant, imo. It takes the storyline away from Russian collusion to this mess. That's all that anyone is talking about. Now, the Dems and the media are on the defensive, so much so that the NY Times is disavowing its own reporting. Crazy stuff.

I look forward to a FULL, FAIR, investigation. Let's see where it leads.

BTW, you are dead wrong on Levin. He is not a conspiracy theorist. His reporting on this is not conspiratorial. It simply lays out the case, by citing liberal media reports, of surveillance. He is a highly respected constitutional attorney. He was chief of staff for Edwin Meese and worked under Reagan.
 
That's not true Coop. The NYT broke that story with it's initial reporting on Flynn's alleged "secret" meeting with the Russian ambassador. They cited "intercepted conversations" from ongoing surveillance as a source for their information.
They tapped the Russian Amb's lines, no?
 
Trump's move was actually brilliant, imo. It takes the storyline away from Russian collusion to this mess. That's all that anyone is talking about. Now, the Dems and the media are on the defensive, so much so that the NY Times is disavowing its own reporting. Crazy stuff.

I look forward to a FULL, FAIR, investigation. Let's see where it leads.
You basically admit our current President accused the past President of treason to distract attention. Hooray.

I too look forward to the investigation. If there was even a hint of truth behind POTUS's tweets, he would have already de-classified the FISA warrants.
 
They tapped the Russian Amb's lines, no?
You basically admit our current President accused the past President of treason to distract attention. Hooray.

Why did Obama issue that order for sharing of raw intelligence across 15 agencies just two weeks before leaving office? Who leaked the transcripts of the Flynn conversation? Who leaked the Sessions meeting? Where are all the leaks coming from?

Any answers to these very simple questions?

He went on offense after playing defense for so long. The media is now walking back their own reporting. They tried to take Trump down and either lied about it or the surveillance happened. Which do you think happened?FISA may or may not have been involved, although multiple media reports from left wing sites reported it. You have heard of criminal warrants, right? Were any criminal warrants issued that permitted surveillance?

Lots of questions. Hopefully, we will soon get answers. But the storyline has now changed and the media and the deep state are in the cross hairs.
 
No, I don't read the gatewaypundit at all. That site is riddled with malware, not to mention FAKE NEWS. Why link the gatewaypundit when you said you linked the NY Times?

Give me a break. Are you actually claiming the NY Times did not report on that story on the Front Page, above the fold? LMAO.

Try reading for yourself. Google is your friend. I grow weary of proving you wrong.
 
Give me a break. Are you actually claiming the NY Times did not report on that story on the Front Page, above the fold? LMAO.

Try reading for yourself. Google is your friend. I grow weary of proving you wrong.
Another internet victory!! Break out the bubbly!! I haven't seen a NY Times article that Obama's admin tapped Trump Tower, it doesn't mean there isn't one. So now we are basing a cry of treason on one failing NY Times article, possibly? LOL. This investigation can't come soon enough.
 
They tapped the Russian Amb's lines, no?

I'm not sure Coop. If they tapped the Russians' lines and were after whatever they were up to, why bring any Trump associates into it unless there was illegal activity. I haven't seen any, have you?
 
Another internet victory!! Break out the bubbly!! I haven't seen a NY Times article that Obama's admin tapped Trump Tower, it doesn't mean there isn't one. So now we are basing a cry of treason on one failing NY Times article, possibly? LOL. This investigation can't come soon enough.

As I said, google is your friend. You claimed the Gateway story is false and that the wire tap story was started by the alt right. Ok. Prove you're right and I'm wrong. I say the NY Times did report on a wire tap. You say they didn't. Let's see who is right and who is wrong yet again.

Trump never said treason, you did. Trump simply claimed he was tapped or surveilled. The media reported on 8 occasions that exact same thing. Flynn and Sessions leaks occurred. Obama signed the order. I notice how you never answer those questions. I wonder why?
 
I'm not sure Coop. If they tapped the Russians' lines and were after whatever they were up to, why bring any Trump associates into it unless there was illegal activity. I haven't seen any, have you?

He hates Trump and I believe has lost all perspective. He doesn't want to believe facts placed in front of him like the NY Times article. Or the other 7 articles I posted this morning. He won't answer how the leaks occurred. How the raw intelligence made its way to the media. Why Obama signed that order.

I get it, I don't like Trump either. As I have posted at least 10 times, he is a narcissist, egotist, thin skinned, ego maniac without much self control. But his policies were infinitely better than Hillary's. Apparently Coop disagrees.
 
How many times is RJP going to post in one day? Loser has no life.
 
He hates Trump and I believe has lost all perspective. He doesn't want to believe facts placed in front of him like the NY Times article. Or the other 7 articles I posted this morning. He won't answer how the leaks occurred. How the raw intelligence made its way to the media. Why Obama signed that order.
The leaks occurred because, total guess, someone in IC leaked them. (I assume we are talking about the Flynn leaks?)

I apologize for not seeing 7 other articles you have posted this morning, I will try and stalk you better in the future. If they are from the gateway pundit, I will not be reading them (or any other alt-right blog).

I've yet to see you link the failing NY Times article that said the Obama admin wire tapped Trump Tower.

Let's go ask Obama why he signed that order.

But yes, I've lost all perspective because I prefer to hold POTUS to a little higher standard then just being better than Shillary.
 
Obama has a secret section of the NSA that he controls. They wiretap whoever he wants. It has been reported in some journalism quarters that they also are hit men for the Clintons. There is an affiliation with the Masons and the Illuminati. They control the deep state.

But we're to believe Trump and the Russians worked to subvert our democracy and rig the election.
58401623.jpg
 
The leaks occurred because, total guess, someone in IC leaked them. (I assume we are talking about the Flynn leaks?)

I apologize for not seeing 7 other articles you have posted this morning, I will try and stalk you better in the future. If they are from the gateway pundit, I will not be reading them (or any other alt-right blog).

I've yet to see you link the failing NY Times article that said the Obama admin wire tapped Trump Tower.

Let's go ask Obama why he signed that order.

But yes, I've lost all perspective because I prefer to hold POTUS to a little higher standard then just being better than Shillary.

Do your own research. You're wrong. The NY Times wrote the story. You claim the alt right started it, wrong again. 8 liberal media outlets reported it. Try Google. It is your friend and if you use it properly, you may not be proven wrong quite as often.

BTW, the Times article was on January 20th, hint, hint.

I don't need to ask a Obama why he signed the order. It is apparent to anyone with half a brain. BTW, the NY Times also reported on Obama Administration "land mines" set for Trump. Do you deny this article also?
 
Obama has a secret section of the NSA that he controls. They wiretap whoever he wants. It has been reported in some journalism quarters that they also are hit men for the Clintons. There is an affiliation with the Masons and the Illuminati. They control the deep state.

And I'm a hired killer for the USA. The CIA gives me targets and I go after them.

Please don't tell anyone, it's supposed to be a secret.
 
BTW, the Times article was on January 20th, hint, hint.
The one that says wire tapped data is used in inquiry of Trump aides? I don't see anywhere in the article that says the wire tapped data comes from wires being tapped at Trump Tower. Maybe you guys should go back and get different marching orders. Good luck
 
The one that says wire tapped data is used in inquiry of Trump aides? I don't see anywhere in the article that says the wire tapped data comes from wires being tapped at Trump Tower. Maybe you guys should go back and get different marching orders. Good luck

The transition team, including Trump aides, were in Trump Tower, not certain how you could have missed this fact. You're reaching now. So are you now admitting the wire tap story did not start with the Alt Right but with the NY Times?

Another tid bit for you:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/us/politics/trump-russia-associates-investigation.html

The F.B.I. is leading the investigations, aided by the National Security Agency, the C.I.A. and the Treasury Department’s financial crimes unit. The investigators have accelerated their efforts in recent weeks but have found no conclusive evidence of wrongdoing, the officials said. One official said intelligence reports based on some of the wiretapped communications had been provided to the White House.
 
The transition team, including Trump aides, were in Trump Tower, not certain how you could have missed this fact. You're reaching now. So are you now admitting the wire tap story did not start with the Alt Right but with the NY Times?
It did not say they were tapped, no where in the article. Here its is. Please highlight the part that says phones/wires in Trump Tower were tapped:

"WASHINGTON — American law enforcement and intelligence agencies are examining intercepted communications and financial transactions as part of a broad investigation into possible links between Russian officials and associates of President-elect Donald J. Trump, including his former campaign chairman Paul Manafort, current and former senior American officials said.

The continuing counterintelligence investigation means that Mr. Trump will take the oath of office on Friday with his associates under investigation and after the intelligence agencies concluded that the Russian government had worked to help elect him. As president, Mr. Trump will oversee those agencies and have the authority to redirect or stop at least some of these efforts.

It is not clear whether the intercepted communications had anything to do with Mr. Trump’s campaign, or Mr. Trump himself. It is also unclear whether the inquiry has anything to do with an investigation into the hacking of the Democratic National Committee’s computers and other attempts to disrupt the elections in November. The American government has concluded that the Russian government was responsible for a broad computer hacking campaign, including the operation against the D.N.C.

The counterintelligence investigation centers at least in part on the business dealings that some of the president-elect’s past and present advisers have had with Russia. Mr. Manafort has done business in Ukraine and Russia. Some of his contacts there were under surveillance by the National Security Agency for suspected links to Russia’s Federal Security Service, one of the officials said.


Mr. Manafort is among at least three Trump campaign advisers whose possible links to Russia are under scrutiny. Two others are Carter Page, a businessman and former foreign policy adviser to the campaign, and Roger Stone, a longtime Republican operative.

The F.B.I. is leading the investigations, aided by the National Security Agency, the C.I.A. and the Treasury Department’s financial crimes unit. The investigators have accelerated their efforts in recent weeks but have found no conclusive evidence of wrongdoing, the officials said. One official said intelligence reports based on some of the wiretapped communications had been provided to the White House.

Counterintelligence investigations examine the connections between American citizens and foreign governments. Those connections can involve efforts to steal state or corporate secrets, curry favor with American government leaders or influence policy. It is unclear which Russian officials are under investigation, or what particular conversations caught the attention of American eavesdroppers. The legal standard for opening these investigations is low, and prosecutions are rare.

“We have absolutely no knowledge of any investigation or even a basis for such an investigation,” said Hope Hicks, a spokeswoman for the Trump transition.

In an emailed statement Thursday evening, Mr. Manafort called allegations that he had interactions with the Russian government a “Democrat Party dirty trick and completely false.”

“I have never had any relationship with the Russian government or any Russian officials. I was never in contact with anyone, or directed anyone to be in contact with anyone,” he said.

“On the ‘Russian hacking of the D.N.C.,’” he said, “my only knowledge of it is what I have read in the papers.”

The decision to open the investigations was not based on a dossier of salacious, uncorroborated allegations that were compiled by a former British spy working for a Washington research firm. The F.B.I. is also examining the allegations in that dossier, and a summary of its contents was provided to Mr. Trump earlier this month.

Representatives of the agencies involved declined to comment. Of the half-dozen current and former officials who confirmed the existence of the investigations, some said they were providing information because they feared the new administration would obstruct their efforts. All spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the cases.

The continuing investigation again puts the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, in the middle of a politically fraught investigation. Democrats have sharply criticized Mr. Comey’s handling of the investigation into Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server. Mrs. Clinton has said his decision to reveal the existence of new emails late in the campaign cost her the election.

The F.B.I. investigation into Mr. Manafort began last spring, and was an outgrowth of a criminal investigation into his work for a pro-Russian political party in Ukraine and for the country’s former president, Viktor F. Yanukovych. In August, The Times reported that Mr. Manafort’s name had surfaced in a secret ledger that showed he had been paid millions in undisclosed cash payments. The Associated Press has reported that his work for Ukraine included a secret lobbying effort in Washington aimed at influencing American news organizations and government officials.

Mr. Stone, a longtime friend of Mr. Trump’s, said in a speech in Florida last summer that he had communicated with Julian Assange, the founder of WikiLeaks, the anti-secrecy group that published the hacked Democratic emails. During the speech, Mr. Stone predicted further leaks of documents, a prediction that came true within weeks.

In a brief interview on Thursday, Mr. Stone said he had never visited Russia and had no Russian clients. He said that he had worked in Ukraine for a pro-Western party, but that any assertion that he had ties to Russian intelligence was “nonsense” and “totally false.”

“The whole thing is a canard,” he said. “I have no Russian influences.”

The Senate intelligence committee has started its own investigation into Russia’s purported attempts to disrupt the election. The committee’s inquiry is broad, and will include an examination of Russian hacking and possible ties between people associated with Mr. Trump’s campaign and Russia.

Investigators are also scrutinizing people on the periphery of Mr. Trump’s campaign, such as Mr. Page, a former Merrill Lynch banker who founded Global Energy Capital, an investment firm in New York that has done business with Russia.

In an interview on Thursday, Mr. Page expressed bewilderment about why he might be under investigation. He blamed a smear campaign — that he said was orchestrated by Mrs. Clinton — for media speculation about the nature of his ties to Russia.

“I did nothing wrong, for the 5,000th time,” he said. His adversaries, he added, are “pulling a page out of the Watergate playbook.”

The lingering investigations will pose a test for Senator Jeff Sessions, Republican of Alabama, who has been nominated for attorney general. If Mr. Sessions is confirmed, he will for a time be the only person in the government authorized to seek foreign intelligence wiretaps on American soil.

Mr. Sessions said at his confirmation hearing that he would recuse himself from any investigations involving Mrs. Clinton. He was not asked whether he would do so in cases involving associates of Mr. Trump."

It does not say the Trump Tower wires were tapped. To me, I would bet the Russian banks and ambassador were the ones being tapped. Can't wait to find out what the investigations reveal.
 
And I'm a hired killer for the USA. The CIA gives me targets and I go after them.

Please don't tell anyone, it's supposed to be a secret.

Aw 'Cmon countryroads89...you're no "hired gun" you're just a little pup in a cup[winking]
images
 
It did not say they were tapped, no where in the article. Here its is. Please highlight the part that says phones/wires in Trump Tower were tapped:

"WASHINGTON — American law enforcement and intelligence agencies are examining intercepted communications and financial transactions as part of a broad investigation into possible links between Russian officials and associates of President-elect Donald J. Trump, including his former campaign chairman Paul Manafort, current and former senior American officials said.

The continuing counterintelligence investigation means that Mr. Trump will take the oath of office on Friday with his associates under investigation and after the intelligence agencies concluded that the Russian government had worked to help elect him. As president, Mr. Trump will oversee those agencies and have the authority to redirect or stop at least some of these efforts.

It is not clear whether the intercepted communications had anything to do with Mr. Trump’s campaign, or Mr. Trump himself. It is also unclear whether the inquiry has anything to do with an investigation into the hacking of the Democratic National Committee’s computers and other attempts to disrupt the elections in November. The American government has concluded that the Russian government was responsible for a broad computer hacking campaign, including the operation against the D.N.C.

The counterintelligence investigation centers at least in part on the business dealings that some of the president-elect’s past and present advisers have had with Russia. Mr. Manafort has done business in Ukraine and Russia. Some of his contacts there were under surveillance by the National Security Agency for suspected links to Russia’s Federal Security Service, one of the officials said.


Mr. Manafort is among at least three Trump campaign advisers whose possible links to Russia are under scrutiny. Two others are Carter Page, a businessman and former foreign policy adviser to the campaign, and Roger Stone, a longtime Republican operative.

The F.B.I. is leading the investigations, aided by the National Security Agency, the C.I.A. and the Treasury Department’s financial crimes unit. The investigators have accelerated their efforts in recent weeks but have found no conclusive evidence of wrongdoing, the officials said. One official said intelligence reports based on some of the wiretapped communications had been provided to the White House.

Counterintelligence investigations examine the connections between American citizens and foreign governments. Those connections can involve efforts to steal state or corporate secrets, curry favor with American government leaders or influence policy. It is unclear which Russian officials are under investigation, or what particular conversations caught the attention of American eavesdroppers. The legal standard for opening these investigations is low, and prosecutions are rare.

“We have absolutely no knowledge of any investigation or even a basis for such an investigation,” said Hope Hicks, a spokeswoman for the Trump transition.

In an emailed statement Thursday evening, Mr. Manafort called allegations that he had interactions with the Russian government a “Democrat Party dirty trick and completely false.”

“I have never had any relationship with the Russian government or any Russian officials. I was never in contact with anyone, or directed anyone to be in contact with anyone,” he said.

“On the ‘Russian hacking of the D.N.C.,’” he said, “my only knowledge of it is what I have read in the papers.”

The decision to open the investigations was not based on a dossier of salacious, uncorroborated allegations that were compiled by a former British spy working for a Washington research firm. The F.B.I. is also examining the allegations in that dossier, and a summary of its contents was provided to Mr. Trump earlier this month.

Representatives of the agencies involved declined to comment. Of the half-dozen current and former officials who confirmed the existence of the investigations, some said they were providing information because they feared the new administration would obstruct their efforts. All spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the cases.

The continuing investigation again puts the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, in the middle of a politically fraught investigation. Democrats have sharply criticized Mr. Comey’s handling of the investigation into Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server. Mrs. Clinton has said his decision to reveal the existence of new emails late in the campaign cost her the election.

The F.B.I. investigation into Mr. Manafort began last spring, and was an outgrowth of a criminal investigation into his work for a pro-Russian political party in Ukraine and for the country’s former president, Viktor F. Yanukovych. In August, The Times reported that Mr. Manafort’s name had surfaced in a secret ledger that showed he had been paid millions in undisclosed cash payments. The Associated Press has reported that his work for Ukraine included a secret lobbying effort in Washington aimed at influencing American news organizations and government officials.

Mr. Stone, a longtime friend of Mr. Trump’s, said in a speech in Florida last summer that he had communicated with Julian Assange, the founder of WikiLeaks, the anti-secrecy group that published the hacked Democratic emails. During the speech, Mr. Stone predicted further leaks of documents, a prediction that came true within weeks.

In a brief interview on Thursday, Mr. Stone said he had never visited Russia and had no Russian clients. He said that he had worked in Ukraine for a pro-Western party, but that any assertion that he had ties to Russian intelligence was “nonsense” and “totally false.”

“The whole thing is a canard,” he said. “I have no Russian influences.”

The Senate intelligence committee has started its own investigation into Russia’s purported attempts to disrupt the election. The committee’s inquiry is broad, and will include an examination of Russian hacking and possible ties between people associated with Mr. Trump’s campaign and Russia.

Investigators are also scrutinizing people on the periphery of Mr. Trump’s campaign, such as Mr. Page, a former Merrill Lynch banker who founded Global Energy Capital, an investment firm in New York that has done business with Russia.

In an interview on Thursday, Mr. Page expressed bewilderment about why he might be under investigation. He blamed a smear campaign — that he said was orchestrated by Mrs. Clinton — for media speculation about the nature of his ties to Russia.

“I did nothing wrong, for the 5,000th time,” he said. His adversaries, he added, are “pulling a page out of the Watergate playbook.”

The lingering investigations will pose a test for Senator Jeff Sessions, Republican of Alabama, who has been nominated for attorney general. If Mr. Sessions is confirmed, he will for a time be the only person in the government authorized to seek foreign intelligence wiretaps on American soil.

Mr. Sessions said at his confirmation hearing that he would recuse himself from any investigations involving Mrs. Clinton. He was not asked whether he would do so in cases involving associates of Mr. Trump."

It does not say the Trump Tower wires were tapped. To me, I would bet the Russian banks and ambassador were the ones being tapped. Can't wait to find out what the investigations reveal.

My God, can you read? I posted the paragraph in my post above yours. Go to the 6tgh paragraph that starts with "The FBI is leading the investigation"

Give it up. Call it a day. It's just not your day. But so you don't strain yourself, here it is again:

The F.B.I. is leading the investigations, aided by the National Security Agency, the C.I.A. and the Treasury Department’s financial crimes unit. The investigators have accelerated their efforts in recent weeks but have found no conclusive evidence of wrongdoing, the officials said. One official said intelligence reports based on some of the wiretapped communications had been provided to the White House.

Look, neither you nor me know if Trump Tower or Trump himself was surveilled. We do know the leaks occurred. We do know 8 liberal media outlets reported on both wire taps and an intense investigation, including applications for FISA warrants. We do know Obama signed that order out of nowhere. We do know the NY Times reported on "land mines" laid by the Administration for Trump.

It is not without reason for all of the above to raise suspicions that Trump and/or his associates were being surveilled. Former AG Mukasey believes Trump was surveilled. Here are all the media (liberal with one libertarian) outlets reporting on this.

1. Heat Street on November 7, 2017:

EXCLUSIVE: FBI ‘Granted FISA Warrant’ Covering Trump Camp’s Ties to Russia

Two separate sources with links to the counter-intelligence community have confirmed to Heat Street that the FBI sought, and was granted, a FISA court warrant in October, giving counter-intelligence permission to examine the activities of “U.S. persons” in Donald Trump’s campaign with ties to Russia.

2. The Guardian on January 11, 2017:

The Guardian has learned that the FBI applied for a warrant from the foreign intelligence surveillance (Fisa) court over the summer in order to monitor four members of the Trump team suspected of irregular contacts with Russian officials. The Fisa court turned down the application asking FBI counter-intelligence investigators to narrow its focus. According to one report, the FBI was finally granted a warrant in October, but that has not been confirmed, and it is not clear whether any warrant led to a full investigation.

3. McClatchy on January 18, 2017:

FBI, 5 other agencies probe possible covert Kremlin aid to Trump

WASHINGTON — The FBI and five other law enforcement and intelligence agencies have collaborated for months in an investigation into Russian attempts to influence the November election, including whether money from the Kremlin covertly aided President-elect Donald Trump, two people familiar with the matter said.

The agencies involved in the inquiry are the FBI, the CIA, the National Security Agency, the Justice Department, the Treasury Department’s Financial Crimes Enforcement Network and representatives of the director of national intelligence, the sources said.

4. The New York Times on January 19, 2017:

Intercepted Russian Communications Part of Inquiry Into Trump Associates

WASHINGTON — American law enforcement and intelligence agencies are examining intercepted communications and financial transactions as part of a broad investigation into possible links between Russian officials and associates of President-elect Donald J. Trump….

The F.B.I. is leading the investigations, aided by the National Security Agency, the C.I.A. and the Treasury Department’s financial crimes unit. The investigators have accelerated their efforts in recent weeks but have found no conclusive evidence of wrongdoing, the officials said. One official said intelligence reports based on some of the wiretapped communications had been provided to the White House.

5. The New York Times, January 12, 2017:

N.S.A. Gets More Latitude to Share Intercepted Communications

WASHINGTON — In its final days, the Obama administration has expanded the power of the National Security Agency to share globally intercepted personal communications with the government’s 16 other intelligence agencies before applying privacy protections.

The new rules significantly relax longstanding limits on what the N.S.A. may do with the information gathered by its most powerful surveillance operations, which are largely unregulated by American wiretapping laws. These include collecting satellite transmissions, phone calls and emails that cross network switches abroad, and messages between people abroad that cross domestic network switches.

6. The New York Times, March 1, 2017:

Obama Administration Rushed to Preserve Intelligence of Russian Election Hacking

WASHINGTON — In the Obama administration’s last days, some White House officials scrambled to spread information about Russian efforts to undermine the presidential election — and about possible contacts between associates of President-elect Donald J. Trump and Russians — across the government. Former American officials say they had two aims: to ensure that such meddling isn’t duplicated in future American or European elections, and to leave a clear trail of intelligence for government investigators.…

As WikiLeaks was pushing out emails stolen from the Democratic National Committee through online publication, American intelligence began picking up conversations in which Russian officials were discussing contacts with Trump associates, and European allies were starting to pass along information about people close to Mr. Trump meeting with Russians in the Netherlands, Britain and other countries.

7. The New York Times, February 9, 2017:

Flynn Is Said to Have Talked to Russians About Sanctions Before Trump Took Office

WASHINGTON — Weeks before President Trump’s inauguration, his national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn, discussed American sanctions against Russia, as well as areas of possible cooperation, with that country’s ambassador to the United States, according to current and former American officials.…

But current and former American officials said that conversation — which took place the day before the Obama administration imposed sanctions on Russia over accusations that it used cyberattacks to help sway the election in Mr. Trump’s favor — ranged far beyond the logistics of a post-inauguration phone call. And they said it was only one in a series of contacts between the two men that began before the election and also included talk of cooperating in the fight against the Islamic State, along with other issues.

8. The Washington Post, March 2, 2017:

The Wall Street Journal, following The Post’s report, added that “U.S. investigators have examined contacts… Sessions had with Russian officials during the time he was advising” Trump’s campaign. “The outcome of the inquiry, and whether it is ongoing, wasn’t clear,” per Carol E. Lee, Christopher S. Stewart, Rob Barry and Shane Harris. “The contacts were being examined as part of a wide-ranging U.S. counterintelligence investigation into possible communications between members of Mr. Trump’s campaign team and Russian operatives.”

And then there’s this.

The New York Times, January 20, 2017:

Headline:

Wiretapped Data Used in Inquiry of Trump Aides

In this story the Times reports that “… wiretapped communications had been provided to the (Obama) White House.”

But barely a month later the Times headlines this:

Trump, Offering No Evidence, Says Obama Tapped His Phones

And the kicker here? Times reporter Michael Schmidt co-wrote both stories. The first on January 20th headlining “Wiretapped Data Used in Inquiry of Trump Aides” — and the March story saying: “Trump, Offering No Evidence, Says Obama Tapped His Phones.”

Oops.

Last but not least there is this interview with former Bush 43 Attorney General Michael Mukasey over on ABC, with the questioning by Martha Raddatz. Here is part of the transcript as supplied by ABC:

MICHAEL MUKASEY, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, I don’t do tweets.

RADDATZ: You heard about them.

MUKASEY: Yeah, I hear about them, but I don’t do tweets and for good reason. It’s not the’ ideal medium in which to get an idea across.

This is the difference between being correct and being right. I think the president was not correct certainly in saying that President Obama ordered a tap on a server in Trump Tower. However, I think he’s right in that there was surveillance and that it was conducted at the behest of the attorney — of the Justice Department through the FISA court.

RADDATZ: And what do you base that on?

MUKASEY: I base that on news reports that you mentioned in the last spot. I also base it on kind of inadvertent blurting out by (Democratic Congressman from Washington) Adam Schiff that his committee wants to talk to the counterintelligence agents at the FBI who were involved in this. Now, what that means is this is part not of a criminal investigation, but of an intelligence gathering investigation.

The FBI has got two functions. They investigate crimes and they gather intelligence. They started gathering intelligence in ’08 based on guidelines that we put in place.

They tried to get — apparently tried to get a wiretap based on their criminal investigation function in June. That was turned down. They then tried to get, and got, an order permitting them to conduct electronic surveillance in October. This is October of 2016.

So that’s when, apparently, that’s when…

RADDATZ: And again you’re basing this on news reports as well.

MUKASEY: And on, and on, Adam Schiff.

RADDATZ: And on Adam Schiff. If a wiretap did exist, it would have to have been approved by a FISA court based on real evidence. So, if there was a wiretap, does that mean there were suspicious things going on between the Trump administration and the Russians?

MUKASEY: It means there were some basis to believe that somebody in Trump Tower may have been acting as an agent of the Russians, for whatever purpose, not necessarily the election, but for some purpose.

And the FBI keeps track of people who act as agents of foreign governments. They keep track of people who act as agents of the Chinese, the Russians, the Israelis, everybody.

RADDATZ: Some of the evidence may have been gleaned from classified means. Is there any way to verify these claims in the press or Trump’s claims so the American people can really understand what’s going on here?

MUKASEY: The only way to verify, whether there was a — whether there was electronic surveillance is to disclose the warrant and to disclose the fruits of it. And that should not be done even in a political storm as hot as this one.

Over at National Review,the redoubtable Andrew C. McCarthy, who has been following all of this since January with his keen legal eye (as here and here), has in his latest headlined the obvious:

While You Weren’t Looking, the Democrat-Media Election-Hacking Narrative Just Collapsed

Writes Andy (bold print supplied by me):

That supposed FBI investigation of collusion with the Russians? Never mind… They’re in retreat now.

You may have missed it amid President Trump’s startling Saturday tweet storm, the recriminations over president-on-candidate spying, and the Jeff Sessions recusal — a whirlwind weekend. But while you weren’t looking, an elaborate narrative died.…

But still, the media and Democrats have always had a serious vulnerability here — one they’ve never acknowledged because they’ve been too swept away by the political success of the fantasy narrative. It is this: At a certain point, if compelling evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia to steal the election did not materialize, the much more interesting question becomes “How did the government obtain all this information that has been leaked to the media to prop up the story?”

The most plausible answer to that question: The Obama administration, through the Justice Department and the FBI, was investigating the associates of the opposition party’s presidential nominee, and perhaps even the nominee himself, during the campaign. Otherwise, what explanation can there be for all of the investigative information — much of it classified, and thus illegal to disclose — that has been funneled to the press?

In other words? In other words, the repeated stories in the liberal outlets theNew York Times and the Washington Post — have now effectively hoist the liberal media on their own petard. Liberals wanted an investigation — and now they are being joined by conservatives. And yes indeed, via press secretary Sean Spicer, President Trump is now calling for an investigation “to determine whether executive branch investigative powers were abused in 2016.” Now that we all agree, let’s start digging.

In 1974 the House of Representatives was preparing to pass articles of impeachment for Richard Nixon. Nixon, back against the wall, was never impeached because he resigned before the process could get any further. Recall Article One, bold print supplied:

On June 17, 1972, and prior thereto, agents of the Committee for the Re-election of the President committed unlawful entry of the headquarters of the Democratic National Committee in Washington, District of Columbia, for the purpose of securing political intelligence.

Which is to say Nixon was being held responsible for the Watergate break-in, something it was never proven — to this day — that he knew of much less authorized. Be that as it may, it was his campaign committee who sent those “Watergate burglars” into the DNC offices in the dead of night to tap the DNC phones. Everything that transpired afterwards came from that unalterable fact.

What we have here is no “conspiracy theory.” This is an administration that investigated the emails of Fox journalist James Rosen. This is the administration that employed Lois Lerner and all of that abuse at the IRS. What we have here this time — as repeatedly reported by the Times and the Post — is an admission that, to quote McCarthy again, “The Obama administration, through the Justice Department and the FBI, was investigating the associates of the opposition party’s presidential nominee, and perhaps even the nominee himself, during the campaign.”

Exactly right. In other words? Collectively? This is a really, really big deal.
 
Last edited:
One official said intelligence reports based on some of the wiretapped communications had been provided to the White House.

I think this answers your question Coop. This is about as plain as the English language can make it Coop.
 
I think this answers your question Coop. This is about as plain as the English language can make it Coop.
But whom's (? - I'm no English major) wires were tapped. Couldn't it be the Russians? Let's get to the bottom of it. POTUS should de-classify the FISA warrant(s).
 
But whom's (? - I'm no English major) wires were tapped. Couldn't it be the Russians? Let's get to the bottom of it. POTUS should de-classify the FISA warrant(s).

By the way, who tapped and leaked Trump's conversation with the Australian Prime Minister and the Mexican President? These calls came from the White House.

I agree, get to the bottom of it. I think it best if Trump stays completely out of it. The libs won't trust anything he is involved in. Let the Intelligence Committees handled it, they are bipartisan.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WVUCOOPER
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT