The RNC Platform Committee just passed the Republican Party platform for 2024.

[roadtrasheer]

First, there are plenty on non-denominational and non-religious affiliated private schools. Are those ok with you?

And I should be able to deduct my private school tuition from my property taxes as it’s not a service I utilize, moreover, it’s I have to pay out of pocket to not use. There is a happy medium here and common ground that could be found. Teachers Unions and lobbying groups will not allow it.

To think and put the onus of the decline in schools simply on genetics and parenting is hilariously naive. Is it a factor? Sure. Have we significantly adjusted curriculum down? Yes. Does urban grift also play a major role? Yes. Are public schools a jobs program of sorts that doesn’t incentivize merit in the classroom? Yes, absolutely. Why try harder when comp isn’t based on merit?

This is when he left the conversation.
Public schools is a disaster and has been 10 years or more before I graduated and that was in 1990.
Now kids can graduate with a iq of 2 and it's sad to say the curve in college will give them a 100,000 dollar degree with a iq of 3 .....why us normal people have to pay for them .

 

[MountaineerWV]

First, there are plenty on non-denominational and non-religious affiliated private schools. Are those ok with you?

And I should be able to deduct my private school tuition from my property taxes as it’s not a service I utilize, moreover, it’s I have to pay out of pocket to not use. There is a happy medium here and common ground that could be found. Teachers Unions and lobbying groups will not allow it.

To think and put the onus of the decline in schools simply on genetics and parenting is hilariously naive. Is it a factor? Sure. Have we significantly adjusted curriculum down? Yes. Does urban grift also play a major role? Yes. Are public schools a jobs program of sorts that doesn’t incentivize merit in the classroom? Yes, absolutely. Why try harder when comp isn’t based on merit?

Let me ask this.......Do you believe that if we tied parent's welfare checks and allowances to their kid's attendance, grades, and test scores, would we see a dramatic increase in lower income kid's educational output? We both know that socio-economic background plays a very important role in determining the "educational value" a student has in their "failing" public schools.

 

[MountaineerWV]

This is when he left the conversation.
Public schools is a disaster and has been 10 years or more before I graduated and that was in 1990.
Now kids can graduate with a iq of 2 and it's sad to say the curve in college will give them a 100,000 dollar degree with a iq of 3 .....why us normal people have to pay for them .

It is also a known fact that the older generation always makes the claims of "well back in my day is was much harder" on pretty much anything.

I guess using everyone's beliefs about our "failing" public school system, all the doctors and engineers today graduated from private schools.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Let me ask this.......Do you believe that if we tied parent's welfare checks and allowances to their kid's attendance, grades, and test scores, would we see a dramatic increase in lower income kid's educational output? We both know that socio-economic background plays a very important role in determining the "educational value" a student has in their "failing" public schools.

I acknowledged it was a factor, it isn’t the only one. I also posted quite a bit of other stuff you’re neglecting to address.

 

[MountaineerWV]

I acknowledged it was a factor, it isn’t the only one. I also posted quite a bit of other stuff you’re neglecting to address.

I'm mot neglecting. I'm looking at what I believe to be the #1 problem and focus on changing that first. You don't reinvent the wheel just because you have a bad rotor. Why is it that the states of West Virginia and Mississippi have the lowest standardized test scores nationwide year after year? One thing in common.

 

[atlkvb]

First, there are plenty on non-denominational and non-religious affiliated private schools. Are those ok with you?

And I should be able to deduct my private school tuition from my property taxes as it’s not a service I utilize, moreover, it’s I have to pay out of pocket to not use. There is a happy medium here and common ground that could be found. Teachers Unions and lobbying groups will not allow it.

To think and put the onus of the decline in schools simply on genetics and parenting is hilariously naive. Is it a factor? Sure. Have we significantly adjusted curriculum down? Yes. Does urban grift also play a major role? Yes. Are public schools a jobs program of sorts that doesn’t incentivize merit in the classroom? Yes, absolutely. Why try harder when comp isn’t based on merit?

There are studies all over the web where the public vs private debate can be analyzed, however very few of those studies show private education to be inferior to public education...matter of fact the preponderance of the evidence suggests quite the opposite is true...private schools generally outperform their public school counterparts regardless of the socio economic status of the students.

Vouchers are an important component of that dynamic, as parents using them generally are satisfied; with the results of vouchers for private schools leading the way.

Do school vouchers work? Here's what research really says

excerpt
An analysis of national data showed that private-school parents generally were more satisfied with their child’s education than those sending their children to public schools. “Whether students enrolled in their choice program through lottery or self-sorted into their private school of choice, the results have shown that providing choice in education leads to higher levels of parent satisfaction,”

Of course I'm biased...my kids went to Catholic schools and I did too. Why are they successful?

Why Catholic Schools Do Well | Peoria Magazine

Parents are often unaware of the significant advantages offered by Catholic schools.

www.peoriamagazine.com

excerpt
It is handy shorthand to think parents want a Catholic education for their children, but that is seldom true. When you dig deeper, you discover they want something they associate with Catholic living: a strong moral center, a feeling of personal worth, character, integrity, compassion and caring for others. These are the things parents believe they receive from a Catholic school—the same reasons the unchurched, as well as parents from many other religions, choose Catholic schools. When it comes to raising their child, many parents look at the teachers at Catholic schools as partners, trusting they are teaching the same values in school as they teach at home.

 

[roadtrasheer]

Let me ask this.......Do you believe that if we tied parent's welfare checks and allowances to their kid's attendance, grades, and test scores, would we see a dramatic increase in lower income kid's educational output? We both know that socio-economic background plays a very important role in determining the "educational value" a student has in their "failing" public schools.

If parents tried as hard as we want the kids to try they wouldn't be on welfare. I'm betting know it wouldn't matter. School vouchers is the way forward.

 

[roadtrasheer]

It is also a known fact that the older generation always makes the claims of "well back in my day is was much harder" on pretty much anything.

I guess using everyone's beliefs about our "failing" public school system, all the doctors and engineers today graduated from private schools.

The older engineers was way more competent than the knew ones . I make way more money thanks to the curve..... do less and spend way more hrs at work doing less . Either the curve or DEI. Public education has went down hill and we all know it . Many factors that has caused it , school vouchers is a way to fix it and get government out of it .

 

[spartansstink]

The standards-based approach that has been ongoing in public education since the mid-90's has virtually destroyed it.

For many, especially in the right-wing, the "test scores" and "accountability" have been the backbone of their fight against public education. While admirable, it generally just shows their (and most of the general public for that matter) ignorance of how the testing system works in most states and why its not an accurate assessment of how a public school is doing.

In a nutshell....

The state creates learning standards that are to be implemented across the state. Every public school in the state MUST follow and teach these standards. Sounds good in theory....

The state then contracts out to a company to create the tests for each standard. That company then usually has the obligation of not only producing the test but also grading those tests. Again, most don't see the problem here but when one looks behind the curtain, one sees the problems that arise.

Say a company produces a test(s) that the majority of the kids across the state fail. This can hurt their chances of their contract being renewed. So, that company spends tons of time and research on producing questions that allow the majority of the students to pass so that makes all the stakeholders happy - parents, teachers, administrators, and politicians - but not too many because that makes it look like the test(s) are rigged. Everyone is happy - well, most everyone.

There are always those schools, usually in the inner-cities, where the majority of the kids cannot and do not pass. This has always been a problem. But usually its swept under the rug unless its during a voting cycle.

These leads to the post-Covid years. Those companies who produce these tests see an opportunity to hit the mother lode. Everyone "knows" that scores are going to go down after the pandemic not just in the "hood" like usual but also in the middle and upper class schools as well. So, they set about making it happen as there is a ready-made excuse in the making.

Now, not only do they get the contract to create the test(s) as well as grade them (no conflict of interest here at all) but the company ( or their subsidiary) can now approach the state with new "tutoring" programs that will be guaranteed to bring up the test scores - within a certain number of years of course. The state buys that, too.

Think this doesn't happen? Think its just a conspiracy theory?

I encourage you to do your own research. If you dive down the rabbit hole deep enough, you'll be shocked at what you'll find. How crooked and corrupt the whole system is. Why change is so necessary.

But, don't believe ME. Find out for yourself. For YOUR children and grandchildren sakes.

 

[spartansstink]

Most people give public schools a bad rap because its easy to do. Usually they blame the teachers. In reality, most teachers are adequate, not good, not great, but adequate. Unfortunately, there are dozens of things that hamper their ability to become good or great that are simply beyond their control.

I've read and heard about the many varied problems they face - behaviors, attendance, cell phones, poor support from everyone - but there is ONE thing in particular that I believe hurts them most.

FAPE

While most outside the educational world have no idea what that word is, it's central to the public education system. It stands for Free Appropriate Public Education. The key word in that acronym is FREE.

In fact, its why private schools tend to do better, in nearly every facet, in educating children. Simply, the parents have a financial stake in what happens with their child's education. That makes them more involved, more attuned to the ins and outs of what is happening in their child's classroom. Teachers are held accountable because if he/she doesn't perform their job to the satisfaction of the stakeholders, they are let go. The children are held accountable also, because now Mommy's hard-earned dollars are at stake.

Meanwhile, in the FREE public system, what you see above is an anomaly. Since parents have little to no stake (other than pre-tax dollars they never see anyway), most just end up giving lip service. Everyone in the public school system is protected by layers of bureaucracy and red tape. The children get an adequate education - for most anyway - but are never allowed to think or grow beyond the walls of the prison that is called their schoolhouse.

It's why I think that privatizing education is the best way to go but at the same time can't and won't attack (too much) the people in the system that traps them just as it does the charges they are supposed to be educating.

 

[atlkvb]

The standards-based approach that has been ongoing in public education since the mid-90's has virtually destroyed it.

For many, especially in the right-wing, the "test scores" and "accountability" have been the backbone of their fight against public education. While admirable, it generally just shows their (and most of the general public for that matter) ignorance of how the testing system works in most states and why its not an accurate assessment of how a public school is doing.

In a nutshell....

The state creates learning standards that are to be implemented across the state. Every public school in the state MUST follow and teach these standards. Sounds good in theory....

The state then contracts out to a company to create the tests for each standard. That company then usually has the obligation of not only producing the test but also grading those tests. Again, most don't see the problem here but when one looks behind the curtain, one sees the problems that arise.

Say a company produces a test(s) that the majority of the kids across the state fail. This can hurt their chances of their contract being renewed. So, that company spends tons of time and research on producing questions that allow the majority of the students to pass so that makes all the stakeholders happy - parents, teachers, administrators, and politicians - but not too many because that makes it look like the test(s) are rigged. Everyone is happy - well, most everyone.

There are always those schools, usually in the inner-cities, where the majority of the kids cannot and do not pass. This has always been a problem. But usually its swept under the rug unless its during a voting cycle.

These leads to the post-Covid years. Those companies who produce these tests see an opportunity to hit the mother lode. Everyone "knows" that scores are going to go down after the pandemic not just in the "hood" like usual but also in the middle and upper class schools as well. So, they set about making it happen as there is a ready-made excuse in the making.

Now, not only do they get the contract to create the test(s) as well as grade them (no conflict of interest here at all) but the company ( or their subsidiary) can now approach the state with new "tutoring" programs that will be guaranteed to bring up the test scores - within a certain number of years of course. The state buys that, too.

Think this doesn't happen? Think its just a conspiracy theory?

I encourage you to do your own research. If you dive down the rabbit hole deep enough, you'll be shocked at what you'll find. How crooked and corrupt the whole system is. Why change is so necessary.

But, don't believe ME. Find out for yourself. For YOUR children and grandchildren sakes.

Very interesting and likely 100% accurate. You must be in education to have this type of insight. Very well explained, and alternately infuriating! Thanks for posting.

 

[atlkvb]

Most people give public schools a bad rap because its easy to do. Usually they blame the teachers. In reality, most teachers are adequate, not good, not great, but adequate. Unfortunately, there are dozens of things that hamper their ability to become good or great that are simply beyond their control.

I've read and heard about the many varied problems they face - behaviors, attendance, cell phones, poor support from everyone - but there is ONE thing in particular that I believe hurts them most.

FAPE

While most outside the educational world have no idea what that word is, it's central to the public education system. It stands for Free Appropriate Public Education. The key word in that acronym is FREE.

In fact, its why private schools tend to do better, in nearly every facet, in educating children. Simply, the parents have a financial stake in what happens with their child's education. That makes them more involved, more attuned to the ins and outs of what is happening in their child's classroom. Teachers are held accountable because if he/she doesn't perform their job to the satisfaction of the stakeholders, they are let go. The children are held accountable also, because now Mommy's hard-earned dollars are at stake.

Meanwhile, in the FREE public system, what you see above is an anomaly. Since parents have little to no stake (other than pre-tax dollars they never see anyway), most just end up giving lip service. Everyone in the public school system is protected by layers of bureaucracy and red tape. The children get an adequate education - for most anyway - but are never allowed to think or grow beyond the walls of the prison that is called their schoolhouse.

It's why I think that privatizing education is the best way to go but at the same time can't and won't attack (too much) the people in the system that traps them just as it does the charges they are supposed to be educating.

Another poster said it's the Unions who refuse to hold teachers accountable. While it may be true there are some good teachers trapped in a bad system, it's also true plenty shouldn't be teaching at all. If they can't meet minimum competency or performance standards they need to find some other line of work. In private schools, inferior teachers who don't produce results for their students don't stay employed very long. In government run schools, they get raises and tenure. 😏