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The Big Debate: Should Horns Down Be A Penalty?

WVUALLEN

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5 days ago - https://www.espn.com/college-footba...-wonderful-delightfully-weird-rise-horns-down

West Virginia's penalties were based on NCAA Rule 9-2-1, which says, "No player, substitute, coach or other person subject to the rules shall use abusive, threatening or obscene language or gestures, or engage in such acts that provoke ill will or are demeaning to an opponent, to game officials or to the image of the game."

Brown, now at North Carolina, told ESPN.com this offseason he thinks Horns Down qualifies.

The Hook 'Em sign is "an iconic hand signal when you think of college sports," McDonald conceded. But simply turn it upside down, he said, and it has "become this untouchable signal you can't do as opposed to the 2,000 other hand signals in American football."

"It's a childish gesture," said Diane Gottsman, a national etiquette expert and founder of The Protocol School of Texas. "It can easily escalate into an act of aggression when emotions, liquor and the wrong personalities are involved."

But manners aside, should it be a penalty in a football game?

"If you can't throw the Horns Down, what can you do?" he said. "It's the most polite disrespect that you can do in the game of football. It's not a kick in the nuts."

And Switzer, well, he's got his own reasons.

"S---," he said. "It's just fun!"

A camper from Norman, Oklahoma, did it while standing next to Herman at a Texas football camp.



Greg Andrews @LawyerGreg405

I took my soon-to-be 9th grade son, @Parker32Andrews , down to a Texas last Sunday for football camp and he had an opportunity to meet Texas’ coach, Tom Herman. Parker never wastes an opportunity!

https://www.espn.com/college-footba...-wonderful-delightfully-weird-rise-horns-down

My personal opinion is Texas fans, players and coaches are being petty about the gesture. What about the horns up sign they throw after a big play or touchdown? Where's the penalty?

Big 12 and others teams come to WVU and stomp on the WVU logo and no flag is thrown. Where is the unsportsmanlike penalty?

Will we now penalize fans for the gesture? What about all the other hand symbols that become mocked and disrespected by teams? Is it just Texas or will teams get that break of unsportsmanlike calls. College football is becoming a wimp sport when little baby's crying about hand gestures.

Now a middle finger to an official yeah probably a bad idea.
 
PC culture sucks. Give 'em the old in game salute anyone who has played the game understands...fist clinched with middle finger extended proudly.
 
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Nothing wrong with that and if you have ever attended a sPitt game at sPitt then you know horns down in nothing. The Chokies may even be worse....
 
If so “Horns up” should be a penalty, unless of course it’s on the Texas sidelines celebrating with Texas teammates in a circle so no one in the non Texas crowd or fanbase is intimidated. I’m using Big XII logic which I’m seeing there really isn’t much.

And if it is a penalty, let WV show our state pride since 1863 by raising the Panhandles and forming the Child born of American Rebellion & Civil War I proclaim from New Cumberland to Bluefield from Harpers Ferry to Williamson I say Panhandles up & let the college football world take notice!!!!
 
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Saw on Twitter the other day about a Texas fan vacationing in Barcelona.
Supposedly he was wearing a UT T shirt around the city and some guy walked up and gave him the Horns Down.
I guess he asked him what school he was from and the guy said ECU.
East Carolina? Don't remember playing them in any sport.

Think the Big 12 is going to continue to push this as a story line.
It is whatever.

Last year in the Regional Final for Women's Volleyball at BYU the entire BYU crowd was doing it.
 
If they are getting into the face of a Texas player before, during, or after a play and taunting him/her with it, then it should be a penalty. If they are doing it off to the side or whatever, then it should not be a penalty. Same thing for Horn’s Up as another poster said.
 
WVU should have been awarded an extra yard on the extra point for what Stills did. Stills punked the Texas cult crowd haha. He already ran by all of the Texas players. The ref was a geek old guy.
 
And why greg should juvenile and plain ass undisciplined behavior be rewarded. Leave the grade school shit in the licker room!
 
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It’s not juvenile. And just about everyone does something like that. Apparently you don’t watch the NFL Root.
 
It’s not juvenile. And just about everyone does something like that. Apparently you don’t watch the NFL Root.

So beating on your wife or girlfriend that seems to happen quite frequently among the NFL set is ok too? Come on now. Copying a bunch of overpaid, over hyped grown men play a kids game doesn't make it cool...just makes it dumbass. lol.
 
So beating on your wife or girlfriend that seems to happen quite frequently among the NFL set is ok too? Come on now. Copying a bunch of overpaid, over hyped grown men play a kids game doesn't make it cool...just makes it dumbass. lol.


LOL. Lighten up root. Stills did the kind of thing that 100s of players have done over the years. Really not a big deal. The Big12 confirmed that when they just said it’s ok to do unrelated to doing to opposing players. Unless I didn’t read it right the Big12 admitted the ref made a mistake in penalizing Stills. Maybe I read that wrong.
 
Stills was flagged for walking up to the crowd
Under the NCAA rulebook a flag can and still will be thrown if a player goes up to the crowd.
He could have waved or done whatever but it still would have been a flag.
 
Still a NCAA rule.

If Stills would have turned around and done it there would have no issue but he walked up to the crowd

Rule 9 – Conducts of Players and Others Subject to the Rules

Section 2 Unsportsmanlike Conduct Fouls

Article 1 There shall be no unsportsmanlike conduct or ay act that interferes with orderly game administration on the part of players, substitutes, coaches, authorized attendants or any persons subject to the rules, before the game, during the game or between periods. Infractions for these acts by players are administered as either live-ball or dead-ball fouls depending on when they occur.

a) Specifically prohibited acts and conduct include:

1) No player, substitute, coach or other person subject to the rules shall use abusive, threating or obscene language or gestures, or engage in such acts that provoke ill will or are demeaning to an opponent, to game officials or to the image of the game, including but not limited to:

a) Pointing the finger(s), hand(s), arm(s) or ball at an opponent, or imitating the slashing of the throat

b) Taunting, baiting or ridiculing an opponent verbally

c) Inciting an opponent or spectators in any other way, such as simulating the firing of a weapon or placing a hand by the ear to request recognition

d) Any delayed, excessive, prolonged or choreographed act by which a player (or players) attempts to focus attention upon himself (or themselves)
 
Still a NCAA rule.
If Stills would have turned around and done it there would have no issue but he walked up to the crowd

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....Wrong

Announcers says..That's an unsportsmanlike penalty? Clearly in his mind not an intentional gesture.
 
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Should have been unnecessary roughness call against Texas! No call.



Dumbest call...

McKivtz tossed for open hand slap on the shoulder of Texass player. BS officiating from those texass Refs.
 
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The commissioner clearly stated on Monday the rule.

Doesn't matter what the announcers say.

If a player scores a TD and walks up to the opposing crowd and does any type of gesture it is a 15 yard penalty.
 
The commissioner clearly stated on Monday the rule.

Doesn't matter what the announcers say.

If a player scores a TD and walks up to the opposing crowd and does any type of gesture it is a 15 yard penalty.

I’m sure Texas won’t be flagged for doing Horns Up on our field this year the moment they score and flash it to our crowd.
 
I’d love it if Troy Brown officially takes the “Horns Up” issue with the B12 referees prior to our game with them this year.

I would demand a written statement addressing this topic that we would gladly reciprocate when playing in Austin.

At least then we can pretend it’s fair and equal.
 
WVU might be wise to follow the Paul Brown rule:
Act like you've been there before.
Nothing crushes the other team and its fans more than an opponent looking bored because it's so easy to score against your team. That really messes with their head.

Refs surely wouldn't throw a penalty flag for "being bored."
 
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Still a NCAA rule.

If Stills would have turned around and done it there would have no issue but he walked up to the crowd

Rule 9 – Conducts of Players and Others Subject to the Rules

Section 2 Unsportsmanlike Conduct Fouls

Article 1 There shall be no unsportsmanlike conduct or ay act that interferes with orderly game administration on the part of players, substitutes, coaches, authorized attendants or any persons subject to the rules, before the game, during the game or between periods. Infractions for these acts by players are administered as either live-ball or dead-ball fouls depending on when they occur.

a) Specifically prohibited acts and conduct include:

1) No player, substitute, coach or other person subject to the rules shall use abusive, threating or obscene language or gestures, or engage in such acts that provoke ill will or are demeaning to an opponent, to game officials or to the image of the game, including but not limited to:

a) Pointing the finger(s), hand(s), arm(s) or ball at an opponent, or imitating the slashing of the throat

b) Taunting, baiting or ridiculing an opponent verbally

c) Inciting an opponent or spectators in any other way, such as simulating the firing of a weapon or placing a hand by the ear to request recognition

d) Any delayed, excessive, prolonged or choreographed act by which a player (or players) attempts to focus attention upon himself (or themselves)



Man do you need a life son
 
Will the fingers to the lips be flagged?

Will the crossing of the arms be flagged?

Will the beating of the chest be flagged?

Will the jumping up and pointing for first down be flagged?

Will running to the wall jumping to the stands for a high five be considered excessive celebration?

Will waving of the finger suggesting the a no no no gesture?

This horns down penalty reeks of Texas jealousy and hurt feelings
 
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