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So you don't want teams like Cincinnati and Memphis or UConn

VaultHunter

All-Conference
Apr 16, 2014
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Because they offer nothing in football.

Western Michigan
Marshall
Maryland
East Carolina
South Florida (possible Big12 target) Syracuse
Mississippi State
Rutgers
Louisville
Cincinnati (possible Big12 target) Connecticut (possible Big12 target)
Pitt 2007

WVU schedule that had WVU ranked high enough to play for a National Championship. Seems like WVU has done just fine playing teams like that before (basically an entire schedule) and we're talking about one or two of those teams being on the schedule along with the rest of the Big12 teams. I just don't see any difference between Iowa State and Kansas and Cincinnati and UConn.
 
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Because they offer nothing in football.

Western Michigan
Marshall
Maryland
East Carolina
South Florida (possible Big12 target) Syracuse
Mississippi State
Rutgers
Louisville
Cincinnati (possible Big12 target) Connecticut (possible Big12 target)
Pitt 2007

WVU schedule that had WVU ranked high enough to play for a National Championship. Seems like WVU has done just fine playing teams like that before (basically an entire schedule) and we're talking about one or two of those teams being on the schedule along with the rest of the Big12 teams. I just don't see any difference between Iowa State and Kansas and Cincinnati and UConn.

Except Cincy, UCF and sometimes UConn would kick Iowa State and Kansas' asses on the gridiron.
 
Because they offer nothing in football.

Western Michigan
Marshall
Maryland
East Carolina
South Florida (possible Big12 target) Syracuse
Mississippi State
Rutgers
Louisville
Cincinnati (possible Big12 target) Connecticut (possible Big12 target)
Pitt 2007

WVU schedule that had WVU ranked high enough to play for a National Championship. Seems like WVU has done just fine playing teams like that before (basically an entire schedule) and we're talking about one or two of those teams being on the schedule along with the rest of the Big12 teams. I just don't see any difference between Iowa State and Kansas and Cincinnati and UConn.
wow looking back at that schedule is now laughable. There's no comparison to the big 12.
 
Maryland is the only team still left on WVU's schedule from your list.

And with Pitt the only teams on your list that would do the Big 12 any good.

Face it. The Power 5 conferences got all the teams worth having, except Notre Dame, which is half in and half out of the ACC, and BYU. Otherwise, there's no school that would add to the Big 12 cache.

Texas and Oklahoma stay in the Big 12, then WVU is fine. Texas can't get out because the Longhorn Network is a $15 million a year albatross around the neck of any conference that would take the Longhorns. Oklahoma likes to be top dog, and wouldn't be in the SEC or Big 10.


This all makes for great conversation waiting for the football season. But this merry go round has been spinning at 80 mph for the summer, and nothing has been settled or even provided an accurate road map. Every solution has its downside.


 
You can't sit here and tell me with a straight face that Cincy doesn't do this conference any good. We desperately need to expand the footprint, Cincy bridges the gap between WV and Iowa and adds a ton of TV sets on top of football (and although not relevant in terms of $$$, basketball too) that is better than a good chunk of P5 teams
 
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You can't sit here and tell me with a straight face that Cincy doesn't do this conference any good. We desperately need to expand the footprint, Cincy bridges the gap between WV and Iowa and adds a ton of TV sets on top of football (and although not relevant in terms of $$$, basketball too) that is better than a good chunk of P5 teams
Yes I can do that. Cinci only benefits WVU fans wishing for a short road trip game. Truth is, they would hurt WVU more than help them. Suddenly WVU loses Ohio State rejects to Cinci. Ohio is a very important recruiting area for WVU. Several recruits would choose to stay home in Ohio with Cinci. We don't need to build that CUSA caliber program into a Big 12 rival. Their addition would immediately water down the national perception of this conference.
 
I'll go along with the conclusions of the unbiased paid consultants, whatever they are. I hope the B12 presidents and chancellors follow their advice for the sake of the conference.
 
Agree with Vault.

@ UMD - ACC bowl team, 31-14
ECU - bowl team, 48-7
@ 18 USF - bowl team, 13-21
Miss State - SEC West bowl team, 38-13
@ 25 Rutgers - bowl team, 31-3
@ 22 Cincy - 10-win bowl team, 28-23
20 UConn - bowl team, 66-21
3/4 Okla - BXII champion, 48-28

4-1 vs top 25 teams. Defeated 7 opponents that made bowl games.

WVU was National Championship bound as a 1-loss Big East champ before, well, it happened. Hard to imagine nowadays.

'07 was a solid schedule in my book. It showed in the Fiesta finale.
 
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I'll go along with the conclusions of the unbiased paid consultants, whatever they are. I hope the B12 presidents and chancellors follow their advice for the sake of the conference.
I know that they are going to be presented with a lot of different scenarios and a lot of data. I don't know if it is accurate to say they will be getting advice. I'll live with their decision, whatever it is. This conference can be a strong conference if Texas and Oklahoma recommit with 10, 12 or even 14 teams. They may fall behind the SEC and the BIG10 whether they expand or not but all they have to do is stay ahead of the PAC12 and the ACC.
 
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Yes I can do that. Cinci only benefits WVU fans wishing for a short road trip game. Truth is, they would hurt WVU more than help them. Suddenly WVU loses Ohio State rejects to Cinci. Ohio is a very important recruiting area for WVU. Several recruits would choose to stay home in Ohio with Cinci. We don't need to build that CUSA caliber program into a Big 12 rival. Their addition would immediately water down the national perception of this conference.

Lol we played in a conference with Cincy for years and they had a two year run of dominance in the Big East that we never experienced even at our peak, didnt seem to change the landscape one bit.

They as a program are better than KU, ISU, Baylor, Texas Tech historically and are presently atleast middle of the pack in this league, they play in what would be the 2nd most populous state BY FAR over OK, KA, WV in the conference. Yes I know they are an afterthought behind Ohio State, but Rutgers is an afterthought behind like 50 different sports related things in NYC yet the B1G still took them and their putrid athletics. Taking Cincy is the correct play, the only debate is who joins them.
 
If a team wins every game and then plays for the mythical NC .............and wins............Do the teams fans then examine the quality and status of the teams played along the way and then become disillusioned with their National Championship? I think not!
 
If a team wins every game and then plays for the mythical NC .............and wins............Do the teams fans then examine the quality and status of the teams played along the way and then become disillusioned with their National Championship? I think not!

The year is 1976 - The team with this schedule went undefeated. The closest games were vs WVU and Syracuse.

Ranked #11 Notre Dame
unranked Georgia Tech
unranked Temple
unranked Duke
unranked Louisville
unranked Miami
unranked Navy
unranked Syracuse
unranked Army
unranked WVU
unranked Penn State
Ranked #5 Georgia

The Team was Pitt. No. They aren't disillusioned.
 
Because they offer nothing in football.

Western Michigan
Marshall
Maryland
East Carolina
South Florida (possible Big12 target) Syracuse
Mississippi State
Rutgers
Louisville
Cincinnati (possible Big12 target) Connecticut (possible Big12 target)
Pitt 2007

WVU schedule that had WVU ranked high enough to play for a National Championship. Seems like WVU has done just fine playing teams like that before (basically an entire schedule) and we're talking about one or two of those teams being on the schedule along with the rest of the Big12 teams. I just don't see any difference between Iowa State and Kansas and Cincinnati and UConn.
Maybe no difference, but we already have Iowa State and Kansas. Why add two more of that same quality? Your statement as to the strength of Cincinnati and UCONN goes toard proving the point that they would dilute the conference rather than add to it. Money flows out but little flows in to the conference with their addition.
 
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Because they offer nothing in football..

Exactly!

"Cincinnati is a Reds town" says Bob Huggins. Huggins would know cause he was there for a decade. The Bungals occupy the #2a spot, and TOSU is at #2b there based on Nielson. After that who cares? I know the locals don't care about the Bearcats. Been to Nippert and the Bungals stadium-same attendance at both.

Heck Brian Kelly had to beg the Cincinnati Enquirerer to send a reporter to Big East Media days for crying out loud.

And someone else said they had a great 2 year run 'better than even WVU had'. Yeah if you overlooking getting beat by the Chokies in the Orange and getting Teebowed by the Gators in the Sugar. Good news is hardly no one from Cincinnati was watching either in person or on TV, since they're not watched much. Since those "Glory Years", listen for the crickets.


Memphis is a poor mans Cincinnati with only one good year of play. Pick about 4 or 5 SEC schools that get more attention there. Unless Ole Miss, Miss State, UT, or another regional SEC school is packing the Liberty Bowl, it's at less than 1/2 capacity. Keep the Fed Ex for Memphis cause God knows it hasn't helped them. I use UPS anyway. Btw that place is Arkansas not Tennessee or might as well be.

UConn is a women's basketball school with a football fanbase that cares more about Sox vs Yanks while actually attending a UConn college football game vs a ranked opponent, I $#!+ you not. It's happened 2 times I was there. It's a wine & cheese crowd-ACC material. Add in they sold a grand total of 3k tickets for their lone BCS Bowl appearance (beat down from Oklahoma) and the point is proven. Btw I got nothing against women's basketball but like 99.9% of the country, I got nothing for it either, ratings don't lie Geno. As for men's basketball it doesn't move the needle either, except in March Madness.

And to the directional Floridas, FSU and Florida are both more popular on both campuses among their commuter student enrollment. That bout covers it.

Thank God Texas ain't going for this expansion. That's at least 3 no votes. May 31st will hopefully put an end to this.

Good news is WVU keeps playing the toughest and best schedules ever and Round Robin play.
 
The year is 1976 - The team with this schedule went undefeated. The closest games were vs WVU and Syracuse.

Ranked #11 Notre Dame
unranked Georgia Tech
unranked Temple
unranked Duke
unranked Louisville
unranked Miami
unranked Navy
unranked Syracuse
unranked Army
unranked WVU
unranked Penn State
Ranked #5 Georgia

The Team was Pitt. No. They aren't disillusioned.
Playing a schedule with only 2 ranked teams would NOT have Pitt in the NC game today. As I said before, the BCS and current system changed all that.
 
Exactly!

"Cincinnati is a Reds town" says Bob Huggins. Huggins would know cause he was there for a decade. The Bungals occupy the #2a spot, and TOSU is at #2b there based on Nielson. After that who cares? I know the locals don't care about the Bearcats. Been to Nippert and the Bungals stadium-same attendance at both.

Heck Brian Kelly had to beg the Cincinnati Enquirerer to send a reporter to Big East Media days for crying out loud.

And someone else said they had a great 2 year run 'better than even WVU had'. Yeah if you overlooking getting beat by the Chokies in the Orange and getting Teebowed by the Gators in the Sugar. Good news is hardly no one from Cincinnati was watching either in person or on TV, since they're not watched much. Since those "Glory Years", listen for the crickets.


Memphis is a poor mans Cincinnati with only one good year of play. Pick about 4 or 5 SEC schools that get more attention there. Unless Ole Miss, Miss State, UT, or another regional SEC school is packing the Liberty Bowl, it's at less than 1/2 capacity. Keep the Fed Ex for Memphis cause God knows it hasn't helped them. I use UPS anyway. Btw that place is Arkansas not Tennessee or might as well be.

UConn is a women's basketball school with a football fanbase that cares more about Sox vs Yanks while actually attending a UConn college football game vs a ranked opponent, I $#!+ you not. It's happened 2 times I was there. It's a wine & cheese crowd-ACC material. Add in they sold a grand total of 3k tickets for their lone BCS Bowl appearance (beat down from Oklahoma) and the point is proven. Btw I got nothing against women's basketball but like 99.9% of the country, I got nothing for it either, ratings don't lie Geno. As for men's basketball it doesn't move the needle either, except in March Madness.

And to the directional Floridas, FSU and Florida are both more popular on both campuses among their commuter student enrollment. That bout covers it.

Thank God Texas ain't going for this expansion. That's at least 3 no votes. May 31st will hopefully put an end to this.

Good news is WVU keeps playing the toughest and best schedules ever and Round Robin play.

Nobody cares if UC is an afterthought in their own city. If UC is an afterthought in Cincy/Ohio then Rutgers is might as well exist in Alaska for all New Yorkers care, yet the B1G (if you're not paying attention, they are certifiably killing it monetarily) took RUTGERS. Cincy is the best available market that also offers competitive revenue sports, this is an absolute no brainer, again the only debate is who should come with them.

It is painfully obvious the Big XII in its current form will not exist in the long term, we need a championship game, we need to expand our footprint beyond Texas. OU - one of two teams whose departure can destabilize the conference - wants it, if they want it we should make it happen.
 
Yes I can do that. Cinci only benefits WVU fans wishing for a short road trip game. Truth is, they would hurt WVU more than help them. Suddenly WVU loses Ohio State rejects to Cinci. Ohio is a very important recruiting area for WVU. Several recruits would choose to stay home in Ohio with Cinci. We don't need to build that CUSA caliber program into a Big 12 rival. Their addition would immediately water down the national perception of this conference.

Pitt, Cincinnati and Louisville have the same value to any conference. The are three commuters schools located in the Ohio River Valley in cities that have reasonable TV market. Where Pitt scores points for being an AAU member, Pitt loses points for a lack of facilities whereas both Cincinnati and Louisville own their own facilities are spending hundreds of millions on them.

Not one of them is any better than the other two overall. If Pitt and Louisville are good enough for the ACC, Cincinnati is good enough for the Big-12. The mistake was not grabbing WVU, Pitt, Louisville and Cincinnati at the same time. But the Big-12 was in replacement mode not expansion, if they could do it over, they would.

Cincinnati is maligned by some fans but not by people that know this business. I suggest to those fans, take notes you are letting your bias get in the way of fundamental business sense and conferences are all about business.
 
Lol we played in a conference with Cincy for years and they had a two year run of dominance in the Big East that we never experienced even at our peak, didnt seem to change the landscape one bit.

They as a program are better than KU, ISU, Baylor, Texas Tech historically and are presently atleast middle of the pack in this league, they play in what would be the 2nd most populous state BY FAR over OK, KA, WV in the conference. Yes I know they are an afterthought behind Ohio State, but Rutgers is an afterthought behind like 50 different sports related things in NYC yet the B1G still took them and their putrid athletics. Taking Cincy is the correct play, the only debate is who joins them.

Rutgers has the highest ratings for college football games in NYC. You can't say the same for Cincinnati. That's the difference.
 
If you are looking at quality teams for expansion since 2006-2015(10 year period)

Houston 88-44
Cincy 90-40
South Florida 64-62
Central Florida 73-56
BYU 93-37
Memphis 46-78

Now these are the teams in play for expansion and right now the top 3 winning teams are BYU Cincy and Houston. So Like I said if the Big 12 grows by 2 it will be Houston and one of the Florida's If the Big 12 grows by 4 you can add BYU and Cincy. Now in saying that Memphis could be in the mix due to potential but as far as teams being solid or better over the long haul the three
 
Pitt, Cincinnati and Louisville have the same value to any conference. The are three commuters schools located in the Ohio River Valley in cities that have reasonable TV market. Where Pitt scores points for being an AAU member, Pitt loses points for a lack of facilities whereas both Cincinnati and Louisville own their own facilities are spending hundreds of millions on them.

Not one of them is any better than the other two overall. If Pitt and Louisville are good enough for the ACC, Cincinnati is good enough for the Big-12. The mistake was not grabbing WVU, Pitt, Louisville and Cincinnati at the same time. But the Big-12 was in replacement mode not expansion, if they could do it over, they would.

Cincinnati is maligned by some fans but not by people that know this business. I suggest to those fans, take notes you are letting your bias get in the way of fundamental business sense and conferences are all about business.

It is all about business, and that's why nobody has picked up Cincinnati.
 
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If you are looking at quality teams for expansion since 2006-2015(10 year period)

Houston 88-44
Cincy 90-40
South Florida 64-62
Central Florida 73-56
BYU 93-37
Memphis 46-78

Now these are the teams in play for expansion and right now the top 3 winning teams are BYU Cincy and Houston. So Like I said if the Big 12 grows by 2 it will be Houston and one of the Florida's If the Big 12 grows by 4 you can add BYU and Cincy. Now in saying that Memphis could be in the mix due to potential but as far as teams being solid or better over the long haul the three

While I am not a rah-rah-rah cheerleader for any school on the list you are (Houston) you are correct about one thing, all of those schools are similar in the commuter foundations with the exception of BYU which really can't be part of any conversation. Their issues with Sunday operations is a deal breaker for the Big-12.

No one cares about win/loss records. That is not part of the choosing process. Your definition of quality and what the Big-12 is looking for is not the same. Not even what the Big Ten was looking for; UMD and Rutgers were not lighting up the win column and yet both were major grabs. If the Big Ten eventually grabs UVA and UNC, guess what, those two are more often losers as well.
 
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There are something like 4 million tv sets in Northern NJ that are part of the NYC area and they do watch RU football. That's why RU is in a P-5 and it's why Uconn will never be in a power conference not to mention their unworthy football program. And before anyone says RU doesn't play good football remember we play in arguably the toughest conference division in college football and won just as many games as WVU our first 2 years in.
 
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Then go look it up. Being self-informed is always good. Cincinnati's TV-ratings is not part of the list of qualities being measured by the BIg-12, but if it makes you feel good, research them.

On no, they are definitely looking at TV ratings. This is mostly about getting more money for the conference. Cincinnati's ratings are going to be considered in that regard.
 
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Nobody cares if UC is an afterthought in their own city. If UC is an afterthought in Cincy/Ohio then Rutgers is might as well exist in Alaska for all New Yorkers care, yet the B1G (if you're not paying attention, they are certifiably killing it monetarily) took RUTGERS. Cincy is the best available market that also offers competitive revenue sports, this is an absolute no brainer, again the only debate is who should come with them.

It is painfully obvious the Big XII in its current form will not exist in the long term, we need a championship game, we need to expand our footprint beyond Texas. OU - one of two teams whose departure can destabilize the conference - wants it, if they want it we should make it happen.

Yeah the B1G is killing it monetarily with Rutgers because the B1G network has it in its TV contract with Cable companies they can $1 more per subscription if they have a school in that particular state. This is even if they don't get the B1G network. Rutgers adds NJ which has a population of 8.938 million and 3.335 million households based on the average household size of 2.68 according to Google.

As for a Big XII network, won't happen. Texas is pulling $15 million annually with the longhorn network regardless how much espn is losing. The conference networks are pretty much all falling short of expectations in terms of viewers. The conference have made $$$$ but not the network, like LHN network.

The PAC 12 network is already on a regional basis. The SEC network is a constant replay of "SEC Storied" and spring games. Only original programming is Aug - Feb. There's 6 months no one is watching. Espn will regret the conference network investment. Heck they're already laying employees off like they're in coal mining.

As for championship game, maybe. Maybe a tie breaker game if two teams have same conference record.

As for expanding the footprint with the G5 candidates written here, this won't stop Texas or anyone else from leaving if they decide to. Like "OH NOW Cincinnati and Memphis and UConn are here, I'm not going anywhere now!!!!!!" Is gonna happen. It would expedite departures and leave those left behind stuck with dead weight. You don't adopt kids if you think you may divorce.
 
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CM the Big 12 is going to have to expand if it is going to survive everyone knows it everyone says it. The Big 12 is not going to get anyone from the ACC, BIG, SEC, PAC so they need look at teams that will and I agree bring in TV sets but also get the best of the rest available as far as winning goes. So other than the ones I have posted who does the Big 12 go after? Now if the SEC and BIG expand it is over for the Big 12 because that will make the PAC expand and we will see WVU in the AAC because the Big 12 will be poached like an egg.
 
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Let's look at this realistically, if that's allowed on this board.

Neither Cincy nor Memphis, even with FedEx promises, would enhance the Big 12 image or, more importantly, the per-school takehome annual pay. Isn't that what all the conference realignments has been about?

Geography is ignored. Number in the conference name is ignore. Money is the end all and be all.

So, on that scale, Cincy, Memphis, UConn and Houston all fail. BYU, maybe, but the Mormons create other problems.

And Texas can't take its $15 million a year Longhorn Network deal to another conference, so it is stuck in the Big 12. If Oklahoma stays, too, then the two-headed monster of Texas and Oklahoma will continue to keep the Big 12 in the Power Conferences.

That is good for WVU.

Now, if Dana can only figure out a way to do better than barely get above .500 in the Big 12.

 
Keep seeing people claim that the additions of the available schools would not add revenues to the existing schools and it is just NOT true.

If you are claiming it is true, then present the numbers that prove what you are saying.

Its not true, the schools will add to the bottom line, in fact they'll add a significant amount to the bottom line. They will also enhance the conference from a competitive standpoint compared to other conferences.

Can't understand at all why people are raving against adding these programs, several of whom WVU used to regularly play. The conference leaders need to secure the future beyond 2025 and adding these schools will help them to do that. They are not going to hurt anything. Choosing the two best is difficult but with the consultants data that should be clear. Hopefully the leaders can just deal with the data and ignore the stereotypes and emotions. It is a business decision and in the case of the BIG 12 it would be a very good business decision that should have been done years ago.
 
Let's look at this realistically, if that's allowed on this board.

Neither Cincy nor Memphis, even with FedEx promises, would enhance the Big 12 image or, more importantly, the per-school takehome annual pay. Isn't that what all the conference realignments has been about?

Geography is ignored. Number in the conference name is ignore. Money is the end all and be all.

So, on that scale, Cincy, Memphis, UConn and Houston all fail. BYU, maybe, but the Mormons create other problems.

And Texas can't take its $15 million a year Longhorn Network deal to another conference, so it is stuck in the Big 12. If Oklahoma stays, too, then the two-headed monster of Texas and Oklahoma will continue to keep the Big 12 in the Power Conferences.

That is good for WVU.

Now, if Dana can only figure out a way to do better than barely get above .500 in the Big 12.

I suppose this is again a matter of what terms we are defining and how we define those terms.

The Big-12 image is where I am focused and the assumption that all conference realignments have been about annual take home pay is flawed.

UMD wanted in the Big Ten because its books were red and the Turtles realized what a shoestring operation the ACC is now and is going to be in the future.

Rutgers wanted in the party and out of the G5 purgatory. Granted their books have been red even longer and the Big Ten invitation is like the Powerball to them.

But the reason the Big Ten took them was not merely "all" about take home pay. Many factors came into the decision process and only one part of it was impact on conference revenues. It is plain to see now that the Big Ten commands what it wants regardless of the inventory it recently added or may add for the long prophesized #15 and #16. They could take two sisters of the poor and still get more money, so that makes the case that an invitation is not "all" about take home pay.

The Big Ten took Rutgers and UMD because they met all of the criteria the Big Ten deemed critical. Win/loss records were not part of it as some believe. Either school being worth the current average of the Big Ten member pay out was not apart of it. Rutgers market value was equal to their share in the AAC and UMDs share was <20 million which was the ACC payout when this all started. So that also makes the case it was not "all" about take home pay.

All of that aside, the Big-12 is dealing with circumstances that only somewhat have anything to do with money at all. The Big-12 started their process to make sure the conference had the best chance to land at least one team in the NCP. That was it, nothing else. Later, other factors were brought into the discussion because the devil is always in the details and money is going to be in there somewhere, but it was not why the Big-12 started down this path.

The report back indicated that the best way to secure the objective was to expand by a minimum of 2 teams, split into 2 divisions and host a CCG. Concurrently the Big-12 received an ok to host a CCG without expanding, but that would only raise the Big-12 chances of landing a team in the NCP part of the way.

At that point the candidate list becomes a beauty contest by the ill informed suggesting all sorts of criteria when most of them come across as educated idiots on the subject.

It would seem obvious that the reason the conference wants it best chance to get on an even footing with sending a representative to the NCP would be money, but if go you back and read why the process was set up, it was about conference stability and not more money.

Boren early on stated this until it became his mantra. The conference was unstable and the only way to remedy this was to get a 13th data point by re-enacting the CCG and the then restrictions said you had to have 12 teams to host a CCG. The Big-12 could invite anyone - it literally did not matter who were #11 and #12 so long as their entry allowed the CCG.

Smart people consider all angles and use many details to make the best choices and when they do that, money is always part of the process. Eventually that leads to a beauty contest. All the next two teams need to be is better than Kansas and Iowa State in football in the principle areas of TV-market, athletic budgets, facilities and recruiting base.

Cincinnati, UCF, USF, Memphis, Houston, Colorado State and UConn are all better that those two existing members in this regard. It is not about any of them bringing in one more dollar on their own. Their admission will engage the pro-rata and by their inclusion we will host a CCG that will bring in more money. As the voting balance of power changes, the hold Texas+TT+TCU has will be rendered a minority and the conference will be better off. This is why Texas opposes all efforts that lead to this conclusion.

No new candidate has to be worth 25 million to the Big-12 on its own any more than Rutgers and UMD and were worth the ~45 now in the Big Ten pipeline. Such standards simply label those that hold them as stupid.
 
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Keep seeing people claim that the additions of the available schools would not add revenues to the existing schools and it is just NOT true.

If you are claiming it is true, then present the numbers that prove what you are saying.

Its not true, the schools will add to the bottom line, in fact they'll add a significant amount to the bottom line. They will also enhance the conference from a competitive standpoint compared to other conferences.

Can't understand at all why people are raving against adding these programs, several of whom WVU used to regularly play. The conference leaders need to secure the future beyond 2025 and adding these schools will help them to do that. They are not going to hurt anything. Choosing the two best is difficult but with the consultants data that should be clear. Hopefully the leaders can just deal with the data and ignore the stereotypes and emotions. It is a business decision and in the case of the BIG 12 it would be a very good business decision that should have been done years ago.

You have the same problem. You don't have any figures that show Cincinnati, UConn, etc. will ad significant money. You just claim that without any figures to back it up.

Beyond that, your claim is contradictory. On the one hand, you keep saying that the financial research won't be presented until the meetings next week (the "data dump"). Then on the other hand, you say as a fact that the schools in question will bring in significant money. If that is already established as fact, then there is no need for the data dump at the meetings. If the data dump is necessary to establish the value of the schools, then you don't know as of yet if they will bring in more money.
 
Keep seeing people claim that the additions of the available schools would not add revenues to the existing schools and it is just NOT true.

If you are claiming it is true, then present the numbers that prove what you are saying.

Its not true, the schools will add to the bottom line, in fact they'll add a significant amount to the bottom line. They will also enhance the conference from a competitive standpoint compared to other conferences.

Can't understand at all why people are raving against adding these programs, several of whom WVU used to regularly play. The conference leaders need to secure the future beyond 2025 and adding these schools will help them to do that. They are not going to hurt anything. Choosing the two best is difficult but with the consultants data that should be clear. Hopefully the leaders can just deal with the data and ignore the stereotypes and emotions. It is a business decision and in the case of the BIG 12 it would be a very good business decision that should have been done years ago.
likewise, you provide numbers showing it is a good business decision.
 
Keep seeing people claim that the additions of the available schools would not add revenues to the existing schools and it is just NOT true.

If you are claiming it is true, then present the numbers that prove what you are saying.

Its not true, the schools will add to the bottom line, in fact they'll add a significant amount to the bottom line. They will also enhance the conference from a competitive standpoint compared to other conferences.

Can't understand at all why people are raving against adding these programs, several of whom WVU used to regularly play. The conference leaders need to secure the future beyond 2025 and adding these schools will help them to do that. They are not going to hurt anything. Choosing the two best is difficult but with the consultants data that should be clear. Hopefully the leaders can just deal with the data and ignore the stereotypes and emotions. It is a business decision and in the case of the BIG 12 it would be a very good business decision that should have been done years ago.

I don't believe those figures have been released to the public. People are merely speculating, yourself included.

None of us recieve any direct compensation from the addition of teams, so if folks have the opinion that the product will be lessened, or become less enjoyable, it's fine with me.

We could add any number of these schools and the conference could still collapse.
 
The new schools would need to generate more income for the conference than what they'd recieve in yearly compensation and operational costs.

He's probably basing his theory around revenue gained from a conference title game.
 
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CM the Big 12 is going to have to expand if it is going to survive everyone knows it everyone says it. The Big 12 is not going to get anyone from the ACC, BIG, SEC, PAC so they need look at teams that will and I agree bring in TV sets but also get the best of the rest available as far as winning goes. So other than the ones I have posted who does the Big 12 go after? Now if the SEC and BIG expand it is over for the Big 12 because that will make the PAC expand and we will see WVU in the AAC because the Big 12 will be poached like an egg.
I disagree. This is speculation only. It is opinion, and predicting the future from people who are desperate to expand. I see plenty of people who say that if Texas and Oklahoma stay in the Big12, that the conference will thrive, whether or not they decide to add 1, 2 or 4 teams, or whether they decide to stay at 10. Whether they expand or not the Big12 will likely lag behind the SEC and the BIG10. If Texas and Oklahoma stay in the Big12, the Big12 survives. Neither one is likely to find greener pastures elsewhere. Nobody else is leaving except maybe Kansas. They could be replaced just as easily as TAMU and Mizzou were.
 
Pitt, Cincinnati and Louisville have the same value to any conference. The are three commuters schools located in the Ohio River Valley in cities that have reasonable TV market. Where Pitt scores points for being an AAU member, Pitt loses points for a lack of facilities whereas both Cincinnati and Louisville own their own facilities are spending hundreds of millions on them.

Not one of them is any better than the other two overall. If Pitt and Louisville are good enough for the ACC, Cincinnati is good enough for the Big-12. The mistake was not grabbing WVU, Pitt, Louisville and Cincinnati at the same time. But the Big-12 was in replacement mode not expansion, if they could do it over, they would.

Cincinnati is maligned by some fans but not by people that know this business. I suggest to those fans, take notes you are letting your bias get in the way of fundamental business sense and conferences are all about business.


Pitt is hardly a commuter school.

Pitt has 25,464 undergrad students attending the Oakland Campus of which 10,079 students are from out of state (50 states and 106 countries) and 15,385 students from all over the state of Pennsylvania.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
 
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