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Slamming the brakes on Big12 Expansion?

The Big12 has only themselves to blame. If they add WVU and Louisville both then we are talking about 1team to add and that makes the decision a whole lot easier. Not to mention WVU isn't isolated from the rest of the conference and who knows maybe the Big12 isn't as far behind the Big10 and SEC as WVU is from the closest Big12 school. Honestly the decision not to take WVU and Louisville will probably be the reason the Big12 falls apart one day.
 
VaultHunter said:
The Big12 has only themselves to blame. If they add WVU and Louisville both then we are talking about 1team to add and that makes the decision a whole lot easier. Not to mention WVU isn't isolated from the rest of the conference and who knows maybe the Big12 isn't as far behind the Big10 and SEC as WVU is from the closest Big12 school. Honestly the decision not to take WVU and Louisville will probably be the reason the Big12 falls apart one day.
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The ONLY way that the Big 12 falls apart is if Texas and Oklahoma leave. Texas is stuck with the Longhorn Network and $15 million a year that no conference will let them keep, so Texas stays. Oklahoma wants to be the big frog in the pond, so Oklahoma stays.

Problem solved. After a long of hand-wringing, of course. That's what football fans do when it's too far till the opening game of the next season.
 
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Mountaineer Steve said:
The real reason expansion is on hold. Texas Tech, KSU and Baylor all have interim presidents. Even if a vote takes place, I doubt these three vote meaning a super majority is impossible.
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I'm not sure three interim presidents (if those schools have them) not voting makes a major majority impossible. I think somebody would need to dive into Big 12 bylaws to figure it out.

Not saying you're wrong... ...just seems not voting is actually voting against. ...so they might as well voted against.

Seems odd they would take that stance if the school felt expansion was in their best interest.
 
I would think an interim president would do one of two things. Have a teleconference with the board of directors sharing the information received, make a recommendation and follow their wishes, or simply defer to the judgement of the school athletic director. As Orlaco said, abstaining is the same as a no vote, taking the heat off of Texas and making yourselves the defacto decision makers.
 
Orlaco said:
I'm not sure three interim presidents (if those schools have them) not voting makes a major majority impossible. I think somebody would need to dive into Big 12 bylaws to figure it out.

Not saying you're wrong... ...just seems not voting is actually voting against. ...so they might as well voted against.

Seems odd they would take that stance if the school felt expansion was in their best interest.
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You are correct, a none vote is exactly the same as a no vote. You might also be correct about postponing the vote. Maybe I am overthinking this, but I just think they will delay until at least the next meetings.

One thing is certain, losing Star is losing a huge expansion proponent.
 
Im starting to think that some people covet expansion articles like a teenager covets porno mags. There seem to be a never ending obsession with them
 
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Then shouldn't they simply dismiss early and go home, saving the conference money? The only thing left of substance is to change the rules to provide Baker Mayfield a sixth year of eligibility at Oklahoma and give Texas something in return.
 
Here is some other epic Chip Brown breaking news from the past:


excerpt:
Big 12 Expansion: Notre Dame to Leave Big East?
Notre Dame is strongly considering moving its Olympic sports teams out of the Big East and into the Big 12, according to a report.

Orangebloods.com's Chip Brown reported on Wednesday that it was becoming more and more likely that Notre Dame would make the move out of the Big East. The school would maintain its football independence, according to Brown, but would agree to schedule up to six football games against Big 12 teams.

Wouldn't get too excited about his latest report of no expansion in the BIG 12. Brown is "the Dude of Texas".

Here's the actual article directly from Brown:

excerpt:
football
—
6/20/2012
share:
Sources: Irish Olympic sports likely headed to B12
Chip Brown | Orangebloods.com Columnist
 
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Buckaineer said:
Here is some other epic Chip Brown breaking news from the past:


excerpt:
Big 12 Expansion: Notre Dame to Leave Big East?
Notre Dame is strongly considering moving its Olympic sports teams out of the Big East and into the Big 12, according to a report.

Orangebloods.com's Chip Brown reported on Wednesday that it was becoming more and more likely that Notre Dame would make the move out of the Big East. The school would maintain its football independence, according to Brown, but would agree to schedule up to six football games against Big 12 teams.

Wouldn't get too excited about his latest report of no expansion in the BIG 12. Brown is "the Dude of Texas".
Click to expand...

I truly do understand that, Buck. But I also know the presidents have been saturated with all the information they need and could possibly want by now. Test votes have been taken and everyone knows where they stand. Regardless of what is actually going to happen, after the first day the meetings are no more than a luxury vacation award to the presidents and chancellors of the schools as well as Big 12 officials.

I'm not saying they don't deserve it, compared to NCAA meetings and elaborate spending it is indeed 'chump change'. But let's be honest about it.
 
Gotta agree with Buck on this one.

Plus, no expansion 'this year' hardly means that they won't vote for expansion (using some terms like 'exploratory phase') in the future. Depending on teams added it could take years even if it was decided tomorrow.
 
Mountaineer Steve said:
And yet you were very quick to respond to this post.
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'Porno mags' show his age...plus that he's out of touch.

I'm impressed that he knows how to post on this crazy thing called the Internet (as if teens today need anything else to get their rocks off).
 
michaelwalkerbr said:
I truly do understand that, Buck. But I also know the presidents have been saturated with all the information they need and could possibly want by now. Test votes have been taken and everyone knows where they stand. Regardless of what is actually going to happen, after the first day the meetings are no more than a luxury vacation award to the presidents and chancellors of the schools as well as Big 12 officials.

I'm not saying they don't deserve it, compared to NCAA meetings and elaborate spending it is indeed 'chump change'. But let's be honest about it.
Click to expand...

They have these meetings every year. This wasn't scheduled just for expansion. They were going to have the meetings regardless, and it was just convenient to have the expansion discussions at the meeting, since everybody was already going to be there in the first place.

Buckaineer said:
Here is some other epic Chip Brown breaking news from the past:


excerpt:
Big 12 Expansion: Notre Dame to Leave Big East?
Notre Dame is strongly considering moving its Olympic sports teams out of the Big East and into the Big 12, according to a report.

Orangebloods.com's Chip Brown reported on Wednesday that it was becoming more and more likely that Notre Dame would make the move out of the Big East. The school would maintain its football independence, according to Brown, but would agree to schedule up to six football games against Big 12 teams.

Wouldn't get too excited about his latest report of no expansion in the BIG 12. Brown is "the Dude of Texas".

Here's the actual article directly from Brown:

excerpt:
football
—
6/20/2012
share:
Sources: Irish Olympic sports likely headed to B12
Chip Brown | Orangebloods.com Columnist
Click to expand...

I'll agree with you there. This business about expansion has always been all hype and no substance:

Texas/Oklahoma to Pac 12 - wrong
Clemson/Florida St to Big 12 - wrong
Notre Dame to Big 12 - wrong

And coming soon:

Cincinnati/UConn/UCF/Memphis/Houston/BYU to Big 12 - wrong
 
topdecktiger said:
I'll agree with you there. This business about expansion has always been all hype and no substance:

Texas/Oklahoma to Pac 12 - wrong
Clemson/Florida St to Big 12 - wrong
Notre Dame to Big 12 - wrong

And coming soon:

Cincinnati/UConn/UCF/Memphis/Houston/BYU to Big 12 - wrong
Click to expand...

Ummm.... ....you forgot to mention all the 'rights'.

PLENTY of teams are in new conferences. You look foolish pointing out all the 'wrongs' and completely ignoring recent facts (history).
 
Face it. We don't any of us know what we're talking about. Who saw WVU in the Big 12 coming when the Mountaineers were winning or sharing six Big East football titles? Certainly not me.
I'm just glad that Oliver Luck got WVU into the only Power 5 conference that would have us.
If the Big 12 implodes, WVU will join UConn and Cincy in the Little 5 Conferences. Who wants THAT?
 
Orlaco said:
Ummm.... ....you forgot to mention all the 'rights'.

PLENTY of teams are in new conferences. You look foolish pointing out all the 'wrongs' and completely ignoring recent facts (history).
Click to expand...

No, I don't look foolish. The ones who look foolish are the ones insisting that an illogical expansion move is going to take place. If you want to be honest, this whole business about Cincinnati/whoever was doomed from the start. The schools in question simply don't have the value to make expansion worthwhile. That's been the case from the beginning, and it never changed. You just had some people who were just hell bent on talking expansion into existence that they ignored that fundamental fact. The difference between me and them is that I've been looking at this thing realistically, and they have been looking at it through rose-colored glasses.
 
Blah blah blah...... ...you acted like expansion never happens (giving examples) and ignored all the times it did.....

I pointed out you made an idiotic post. Admit it...deal with it...and THEN move on.
 
Orlaco said:
Blah blah blah...... ...you acted like expansion never happens (giving examples) and ignored all the times it did.....

I pointed out you made an idiotic post. Admit it...deal with it...and THEN move on.
Click to expand...

No, I didn't "ignore" anything. I didn't "act like expansion never happens." You and the other poster are actually doing what you are accusing me of. You are acting there are never any accurate reports on expansion. Chip Brown has been wrong in the past on expansion (a la Notre Dame), but he has also been right in some cases. This is one of them. Face it, expansion simply isn't happening. Bringing in mid majors isn't going to be worthwhile, and that's why expansion isn't happening.

Admit that.....deal with that.....and then YOU move on.
 
I can admit I'm indifferent about expansion.

....which makes me objective. Being objective opens me up to dicking on all the people who are not...

...which includes you.

----------

I enjoy it.
 
At this point, expansion is likely dead and eventually the Big 12 by design. But let's bear in mind the information comes form 'multiple unnamed sources'. That could be two conference presidents, or just two guys claiming to work for the research companies..
 
Orlaco said:
I can admit I'm indifferent about expansion.

....which makes me objective. Being objective opens me up to dicking on all the people who are not...

...which includes you.

----------

I enjoy it.
Click to expand...

You aren't indifferent about expansion. That's why you are trying to convince yourself it could still happen. You aren't objective in any way, shape, or form. You also aren't "dicking on" anybody. You are just trying to save face on the board.

michaelwalkerbr said:
At this point, expansion is likely dead and eventually the Big 12 by design. But let's bear in mind the information comes form 'multiple unnamed sources'. That could be two conference presidents, or just two guys claiming to work for the research companies..
Click to expand...

This is the whole problem. The Big 12 is NOT dead. As long as the Big 12 has the contract with Fox and ESPN, which it does, then the Big 12 is not going anywhere. The Big 12 does not have to expand. This is not like the Big East. The Big East was fighting for survival. The Big 12 is fighting for pecking order. Huge difference.

On a side note, the report was clear. It says, "multiple sources across the Big 12 as well as TV industry sources". So it was people from the Big 12 itself, and from people in the TV industry. Pretty good cross section.
 
I'm beyond, 'saving face'. Mods and posters don't like me and there's no escaping that fact.

Maybe you should learn your place too.

Im not trying to convince myself of anything...I'm just smart enough to not paint myself into a corner. You...? ....not so much.
 
Orlaco said:
I'm beyond, 'saving face'. Mods and posters don't like me and there's no escaping that fact.

Maybe you should learn your place too.

Im not trying to convince myself of anything...I'm just smart enough to not paint myself into a corner. You...? ....not so much.
Click to expand...

I don't have a "place," and you sure aren't the one to tell me what it is.

No, I'm just smart enough to see the world for what it really is. Cincinnati and whoever don't bring value. The conference isn't going to expand if there isn't any value. That's been clear as day from the beginning, and the only people who didn't see that are the ones who were trying to convince themselves that expansion was going to happen. Frankly, I don't need any reports or sources to figure that out. This is just confirming what anyone with a brain already knew.
 
Blah blah blah.... ...you must even get bored with yourself Top.

You don't make anything close to reasonable arguments.
 
Orlaco said:
Blah blah blah.... ...you must even get bored with yourself Top.

You don't make anything close to reasonable arguments.
Click to expand...

No, I make perfectly reasonable arguments. That's why you get so mad, because you can't refute them. Here's a perfect example. The article mentioned this fact:

The Big 12 already did a study - nearly five years ago - on candidates like Cincinnati, UConn, etc, and the TV partners said those candidates wouldn’t warrant redoing current TV contracts.

Well, that's the entire problem. Cincinnati and UConn aren't any more valuable than they were 4 years ago. They still have small fan bases, little drawing power, and average teams. Ok, so then where is the incentive to add them? Boren, Bowlsy, and Gee have all said finances are a huge factor in this decision. Well, when you don't have any teams that improve the finances, you really don't have any reason to expand. That's an infinitely reasonable argument. You just don't like the ramifications, so you just attack me instead of dealing with the reality of the situation.
 
I get mad ? ...lol...

If I was angry I'd be the one with long posts.
 
Seems like way too many people WANT to be convinced that the Big12 is dead because they haven't expanded. If these 10 schools stick together, they are going to be OK for a long time. I have always counted on the fact that these presidents were smart people and would look at the data and make a responsible decision. At this point I would be surprised if they don't stage a CCG. It doesn't matter if there are 100 of you who think it is a stupid idea. It increases the chances of getting into the playoffs and is projected to bring in 2-3 million extra for each of the teams. Take the money, play the game, stick together, win a NC and wait for the future to develop.
 
topdecktiger said:
You aren't indifferent about expansion. That's why you are trying to convince yourself it could still happen. You aren't objective in any way, shape, or form. You also aren't "dicking on" anybody. You are just trying to save face on the board.



This is the whole problem. The Big 12 is NOT dead. As long as the Big 12 has the contract with Fox and ESPN, which it does, then the Big 12 is not going anywhere. The Big 12 does not have to expand. This is not like the Big East. The Big East was fighting for survival. The Big 12 is fighting for pecking order. Huge difference.

On a side note, the report was clear. It says, "multiple sources across the Big 12 as well as TV industry sources". So it was people from the Big 12 itself, and from people in the TV industry. Pretty good cross section.
Click to expand...

Unnamed sources make for National Enquirer quality articles. Sometimes they are right, but other times it's, "What did you expect?" I hope the author's editor demanded the confidential identity of the sources. The Big 12 is not dead until the GOR is close to expiring on June 30, 2025 at 11:59 pm.

The best way to kill the B12 is keep it at ten members, maintain a round robin schedule and have no CCG or conference network. That should do it. The conference will be at least $20 million behind the B1G and SEC in payments to members by then. That puts Texas and Oklahoma in a 'What else could we do?' situation as they leave for the B1G and SEC respectively. That will end the B12 and strengthen the ACC and possibly the PAC.
 
skygusty said:
Seems like way too many people WANT to be convinced that the Big12 is dead because they haven't expanded. If these 10 schools stick together, they are going to be OK for a long time. I have always counted on the fact that these presidents were smart people and would look at the data and make a responsible decision. At this point I would be surprised if they don't stage a CCG. It doesn't matter if there are 100 of you who think it is a stupid idea. It increases the chances of getting into the playoffs and is projected to bring in 2-3 million extra for each of the teams. Take the money, play the game, stick together, win a NC and wait for the future to develop.
Click to expand...

I really do appreciate what you are saying. But having to beat the second place team twice in a season (sometimes two weeks in a row) is very difficult to say the least. The top team loses and no one gets into the playoffs. Shampoo, rinse and repeat. WVU will dominate the AAC for years and learn to get by with a $10 million conference payout.

I just hope the indoor practice facility has been replaced by then.
 
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michaelwalkerbr said:
I really do appreciate what you are saying. But having to beat the second place team twice in a season (sometimes two weeks in a row) is very difficult to say the least. The top team loses and no one gets into the playoffs. Shampoo, rinse and repeat.
Click to expand...
It is definitely a tough route, it is already a tough route. Some years it will bite us in the ass, some years it will make the difference. They still may not go for it. After all OK got in last year. Wouldn't surprise me that much if they waited a year or so either but I think the additional money will make it happen, especially if the Big12 gets left out again.
 
So far only Scout.com is reporting expansion as a dead issue. It could go either way, but by declaring early they either look like a website in the know or complete idiots. The author of the article really stuck his neck out.
 
michaelwalkerbr said:
Unnamed sources make for National Enquirer quality articles. Sometimes they are right, but other times it's, "What did you expect?" I hope the author's editor demanded the confidential identity of the sources. The Big 12 is not dead until the GOR is close to expiring on June 30, 2025 at 11:59 pm.

The best way to kill the B12 is keep it at ten members, maintain a round robin schedule and have no CCG or conference network. That should do it. The conference will be at least $20 million behind the B1G and SEC in payments to members by then. That puts Texas and Oklahoma in a 'What else could we do?' situation as they leave for the B1G and SEC respectively. That will end the B12 and strengthen the ACC and possibly the PAC.
Click to expand...

You had no problems with the "unnamed sources" when their reports supported expansion. You only have a problem with unnamed sources when their reports don't support expansion.

The Big 12 isn't going to be $20 million behind the Big Ten and SEC. The gap is going to be about what it is right now, and the Big 12 would still be on par with the other two conferences. Texas and Oklahoma aren't going to other conferences. Texas already talked with the Big Ten, and was unsuccessful.
 
michaelwalkerbr said:
So far only Scout.com is reporting expansion as a dead issue. It could go either way, but by declaring early they either look like a website in the know or complete idiots. The author of the article really stuck his neck out.
Click to expand...
His neck is only stuck out if his sources are unreliable.
 
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