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Should have kept Dana

Dana left and was not driven out. He wanted Houston as a place to live more than Morgantown and thus WVU would've needed to do far better than 4mil/year guaranteed for 5 years. Dana is not, and never was, worth that kind of money or commitment.

It's like a job. You could be in a shitty job where you are abused, but it's always there. You leave to start your own business or work at a small start-up. The latter job could go under, but that doesn't mean that the right answer was to stay mired in the abusive job.

The right answer is to try for something better knowing that you might fail and will likely have try more than once to get that improvement.
Coaches and players don't leave environments if they are happy and well supported for the best chance for success.

If WVU had shown him support instead of hatred from before he took the job, he wasn't going anywhere. Twice they held up or lowballed contracts to him and often his recruiting efforts took a hit as a result. if it wasn't that it was the hit pieces in the WV media and social media attacks--all unwarranted, mostly because he took over for a coach hired after one win when RR left the team a week before the bowl game.
 
I watched the Houston vs TTech game as well as some of the other games of the Big 12 newcomers. The thing that stuck out about the Tech, Houston game was how much stronger Tech was especially on the line of scrimmage. Houston probably would have been somewhere between 4 and 7 wins in the big 12 this season. There going to have to seriously upgrade that roster to have any chance of winning 12 games in the Big 12.
You may have noticed WVU struggled to win 6 games (again) under Brown.

Holgorsen is likely going to be winning in the double digits more often than not at Houston.

WVU needs to seriously upgrade to have a chance of winning more than 5-6 games a season.
 
You may have noticed WVU struggled to win 6 games (again) under Brown.

Holgorsen is likely going to be winning in the double digits more often than not at Houston.

WVU needs to seriously upgrade to have a chance of winning more than 5-6 games a season.

Yeah because every team in college football easily wins 12 games and beats an SEC team that nearly took down Bama in a bowl game.....oh wait.

Holgorsen took on a major rebuild and in three years won 12 games and a bowl--and WVU once again had a LOSING season after 3 years of this debacle and you are still pretending.....just SAD.

WVU football is in CRISIS.
Winning 12 games in the AAC is different than winning 12 games in the big 12. There is a Hugh disparity in strength of schedule. You claim that Holgorsen took over a major rebuild in Houston. Major Applewhite won 8 games the year he was fired. The same amount in Dana's last season at wvu. So I guess by your logic Brown inherited a major rebuild. Auburn lost 5 straight games to finish the season. Alabama has always struggled to win at Auburn. Its what happens in rivalry games. Auburn was missing 6 starters in their game against Houston. When you look at Houston's results against Auburn and Texas Tech there is nothing to suggest that they would come anywhere close to winning 12 games playing a power 5 schedule. Nobody is saying that Brown is the answer. What we found out after 8 years of Holgorsen that he wasn't. Its time for you to accept that convenient fact.
 
Winning 12 games in the AAC is different than winning 12 games in the big 12. There is a Hugh disparity in strength of schedule. You claim that Holgorsen took over a major rebuild in Houston. Major Applewhite won 8 games the year he was fired. The same amount in Dana's last season at wvu. So I guess by your logic Brown inherited a major rebuild. Auburn lost 5 straight games to finish the season. Alabama has always struggled to win at Auburn. Its what happens in rivalry games. Auburn was missing 6 starters in their game against Houston. When you look at Houston's results against Auburn and Texas Tech there is nothing to suggest that they would come anywhere close to winning 12 games playing a power 5 schedule. Nobody is saying that Brown is the answer. What we found out after 8 years of Holgorsen that he wasn't. Its time for you to accept that convenient fact.

No issue with any of that, but Lyons basically froze DH out but then extended Brown after two bad seasons....pretty inconsistent behavior from the AD.

He's had 3 seasons with absolutely no success but his seat doesn't even seem warm.
 
No issue with any of that, but Lyons basically froze DH out but then extended Brown after two bad seasons....pretty inconsistent behavior from the AD.

He's had 3 seasons with absolutely no success but his seat doesn't even seem warm.

Brown's timing was perfect (for him). He is super PC and a players coach. He laid down like a doormat when the BLM crowd called for Vic's firing based on the "testimony" of one disgruntled player with a track history of flat out slander. That aligned with what nearly everyone in academia wanted at the time. THAT is what got him extended...not his performance or some imaginary demand for his service.

Looking at this in context makes the decision making easier to understand. It's completely asinine, but easier to understand.
 
If this is going to be the norm for NB. Maybe Holgs was leaving anyways, but his product on the field was much better than what we‘re seeing now and his teams played like they gave a shit.

We took some legendary ass kickings our first year or 2 in the Big 12, but his teams were fun to watch and had studs on both sides of the ball. Even if we crapped out in games from time to time you could never say our teams from 2011-2018 weren’t entertaining.

The program and product on the field is stale and boring, and we are as undisciplined as ever. As much as NB talks about “family” we have guys leaving the team left and right.

Hate to say it but NB appears to be a dud.
His teams gave up 50 a game. He is the one that left and will always choke at the end of the season not the beginning. NB is a G5 level coach until he proves otherwise. Dana is a G5 coach until he proves otherwise.
 
Let the numbers do the talking.

Neal Brown is 1 game below .500 for his 3 seasons at WVU.

Worse 1st 3 seasons by a WVU coach in 50 years!

What in all that gives you hope?

Under God sends his Son down from Heaven to coach WVU to a national title it isn't going to happen.

And certainly not in 2022.

You have to be above .500 before you can win the Big 12 or even finish in the top half of the Big 12.

Those are the numbers talking, not me. Yell at the numbers!

And stop making excuses for Neal Brown! Head coach gets and deserves the credit and blame for what happens to the team! Always. For every school. Nick Saban deserves credit for Alabama. Monongah High basks in his spotlight since he was the 1968 QB who brought my high school alma mater one of its FIVE state titles! Little school, big results. Not a tsunami of excuses for failures. WVU fans and WVU AD should try it!
 
Yeah because every team in college football easily wins 12 games and beats an SEC team that nearly took down Bama in a bowl game.....oh wait.

Holgorsen took on a major rebuild and in three years won 12 games and a bowl--and WVU once again had a LOSING season after 3 years of this debacle and you are still pretending.....just SAD.

WVU football is in CRISIS.

It’s really not that hard to win a bunch of games in a conference where over half the conference is at a significant competitive disadvantage. I think WVU would have won 10 games against this schedule.

TT
Rice
Grambling
Navy
Tulsa
Tulane
ECU
SMU
USF
Temple
Memphis
UConn
Cincy
Auburn
 
Yeah because every team in college football easily wins 12 games and beats an SEC team that nearly took down Bama in a bowl game.....oh wait.

Holgorsen took on a major rebuild and in three years won 12 games and a bowl--and WVU once again had a LOSING season after 3 years of this debacle and you are still pretending.....just SAD.

WVU football is in CRISIS.

Dana lost to a similar SEC team to Auburn this year when WVU played Texas A&M in a bowl a while back. A Texas A&M team led by a coach that has been fired by A&M and Arizona for lack of results. Sounds like Dana wasn't up to the task for WVU like he is at Houston.

Auburn is still a 6-6 team and it is the most quality of the 12 wins on Houston's schedule. Houston likely loses all of these games this year Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, TTU, ISU, and KSU save for maybe one upset if they play WVU's schedule. Knowing Dana's track record here, he as likely loses a head scratcher to Maryland, VT, or TCU as he gets the afore mentioned upset

Now go back to giving me that sweet felatio word craft you are known for. *Slurp*
 
Dana lost to a similar SEC team to Auburn this year when WVU played Texas A&M in a bowl a while back. A Texas A&M team led by a coach that has been fired by A&M and Arizona for lack of results. Sounds like Dana wasn't up to the task for WVU like he is at Houston.

Auburn is still a 6-6 team and it is the most quality of the 12 wins on Houston's schedule. Houston likely loses all of these games this year Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, TTU, ISU, and KSU save for maybe one upset if they play WVU's schedule. Knowing Dana's track record here, he as likely loses a head scratcher to Maryland, VT, or TCU as he gets the afore mentioned upset

Now go back to giving me that sweet felatio word craft you are known for. *Slurp*
While your sad attempts to rewrite reality are quite sad, they don't change the FACTS. While you lick Browns sac and he delivers 5 or 6 wins three years in, Holgorsen just won 12 games and beat an SeC squad while WVU was slaughtered by a mediocre B10 team and looked horrible doing it.

Holgorsen won a lot of games for WVU- Brown? What has he done to deserve your Lust and worship? You apparently drool for WVU to only win 5 games and look like a bad hs team. Slurping up everything Brown is feeding you.
 
Should have not let Dana go. Should have not hired Neal Brown. Should not have made Austin leave. Should not have announced Doege a QB1. Should not have let Doege remain as QB1. Should have benched Doege again in the bowl game. Should have played Crowder.
 
Should have not let Dana go.

This is your only incorrect statement. While we ended up with Brown, when you see programs like Cincy, Minnesota, Michigan State turning it around quickly and competing at a high level then it’s worth pulling the plug on mediocrity. What Dana delivered here was an occasional opportunity for Oklahoma or Oklahoma State to beat the shit out of us in a big game. I have no doubt Dana will continue to get his ass kicked in the big game in the AAC and eventually the Big XII, he’s a known commodity, it’s what his career as a head coach is and always will be. While we went from average to below average by switching coaches, I will always maintain that it was the right move to part ways to take a shot at being better.
 
This is your only incorrect statement. While we ended up with Brown, when you see programs like Cincy, Minnesota, Michigan State turning it around quickly and competing at a high level then it’s worth pulling the plug on mediocrity. What Dana delivered here was an occasional opportunity for Oklahoma or Oklahoma State to beat the shit out of us in a big game. I have no doubt Dana will continue to get his ass kicked in the big game in the AAC and eventually the Big XII, he’s a known commodity, it’s what his career as a head coach is and always will be. While we went from average to below average by switching coaches, I will always maintain that it was the right move to part ways to take a shot at being better.
Then you agree it is time to dump the BLM sucking Kneel and let someone else clean up his disaster.
 
While your sad attempts to rewrite reality are quite sad, they don't change the FACTS. While you lick Browns sac and he delivers 5 or 6 wins three years in, Holgorsen just won 12 games and beat an SeC squad while WVU was slaughtered by a mediocre B10 team and looked horrible doing it.

Holgorsen won a lot of games for WVU- Brown? What has he done to deserve your Lust and worship? You apparently drool for WVU to only win 5 games and look like a bad hs team. Slurping up everything Brown is feeding you.
Someone not making up bullshit about how good Holgorsen is/was isn't equivalent to licking Neal's balls. Eating out of a garbage can may be preferable to eating out of the toilet, but does not make the former a classy restaurant when comparing the two. Neither has shown they can deliver a conference championship game appearance for WVU. Only difference is Holgorsen had 8 years of showing he wasn't good enough compared to 3.

Now please stop with these sloppy posts. You are just "telling" me you suck off dudes by the dozen in a dirty truck stop rather than "showing" me with your once emaculately sculpted words. We both know you are capable of so much better.
 
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Then you agree it is time to dump the BLM sucking Kneel and let someone else clean up his disaster.

Yes, I’ve seen enough but I don’t think the admin will pull the plug this year unless a scandal or something presents an opportunity to get out of most or all of the buyout.
 
Someone not making up bullshit about how good Holgorsen is/was isn't equivalent to licking Neal's balls. Eating out of a garbage can may be preferable to eating out of the toilet, but does not make the former a classy restaurant when comparing the two. Neither has shown they can deliver a conference championship game appearance for WVU. Only difference is Holgorsen had 8 years of showing he wasn't good enough compared to 3.

Now please stop with these sloppy posts. You are just "telling" me you suck off dudes by the dozen in a dirty truck stop rather than "showing" me with your once emaculately sculpted words. We both know you are capable of so much better.
Obviously you are a moron as anyone can see. Your ego is so shattered that the coach youve lied about repeatedly to demean him and destroy WVUs football program is so superior to the current debacle that you keep digging a deeper hole.

Neal Brown has been one of the worst coaches in WVU history, while Dana Holgorsen was one of the best. Every stat and record shows this yet you keep gushing over Brown and slurping up the mess he has created out of a strong WVU program.

Eventually hell have to be let go to try and salvage what remains of WVU football.

Meanwhile Holgorsen will be winning lots of games for Houston rather than WVU largely due to the efforts at sabotaging WVU football that you and a few others worked night and day to bring about.

The administration better get busy figuring out how to salvage this mess before WVU has become a permanent shell of what it was.
 
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Obviously you are a moron as anyone can see. Your ego is so shattered that the coach youve lied about repeatedly to demean him and destroy WVUs football program is so superior to the current debacle that you keep digging a deeper hole.

Neal Brown has been one of the worst coaches in WVU history, while Dana Holgorsen was one of the best. Every stat and record shows this yet you keep gushing over Brown and slurping up the mess he has created out of a strong WVU program.

Eventually hell have to be let go to try and salvage what remains of WVU football.

Meanwhile Holgorsen will be winning lots of games for Houston rather than WVU largely due to the efforts at sabotaging WVU football that you and a few others worked night and day to bring about.

The administration better get busy figuring out how to salvage this mess before WVU has become a permanent shell of what it was permanently.

The fun thing is Holgorsen won’t get to stack wins against schools that we usually schedule for easy Ws in OOC play and we’ll get to see how it plays out when he is once again in the Big XII.
 
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No issue with any of that, but Lyons basically froze DH out but then extended Brown after two bad seasons....pretty inconsistent behavior from the AD.

He's had 3 seasons with absolutely no success but his seat doesn't even seem warm.
I agree Brown had 4 years remaining on his original contract, which is plenty of time to show something. The extension wasn't warranted. Personally I think WVU and the non Blue bloods in the Acc, Big 12, and Pac should reconsider their strategy when it comes to giving coach's contracts. I don't think we should give a coach a lucrative deal until he proves he can win with a team he recruited. I know some will be critical of what I just said. In the last year I have seen USC poach a coach from Oklahoma. LSU poached a coach from Notre Dame. We have seen a Texas program that just pisses away money like a malfunctioning ATM machine. There is no contract that WVU or any other program on our level can give a coach that teams from the Sec or Big 10 can't match. Just to clarify I believe when we hire someone fair market value should be given. Until they start winning with their own players no big buyouts attached. I don't want to get hamstrung by an underperforming contract. I have seen to many teams give contracts to coach's with early success that ended up biting them in the a$$ at a later date.
 
The fun thing is Holgorsen won’t get to stack wins against schools that we usually schedule for easy Ws in OOC play and we’ll get to see how it plays out when he is once again in the Big XII.
Bs. He is playing against some quality in the AAC like Cincy, UCF ( just beat UF), SMU ( beat TCU), Memphis and wouldnt likely have much trouble against the fcs and Kansas that are Neal Browns staple- along with the losing teams Brown— only beaten 4 winning teams in 3 years including a G5– has.

But keep pretending that Holgorsens superior resume for WVU and elsewhere isnt what it is and that 5 wins is doing a good coaching job for WVU.
 
Shane Lyons should be making a public explanation and apology as to why he felt it necessary to extend Brown with years remaining.

Was he trying to make up for his dire mistake in holding up Holgorsen’s contract which lead to his departure? Difference is Holgorsen had WVU WINNING and improving while Brown did nothing to warrant an extension.
 
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This debate seems settled. Dana is a very good coach who is leading a winning program and Brown is a very bad coach who never wins anything.

Dana good, Kneel bad....
 
Should have not let Dana go. Should have not hired Neal Brown. Should not have made Austin leave. Should not have announced Doege a QB1. Should not have let Doege remain as QB1. Should have benched Doege again in the bowl game. Should have played Crowder.
Agree with all. All bad mistakes Lyon and Brown have made.
 
This debate seems settled. Dana is a very good coach who is leading a winning program and Brown is a very bad coach who never wins anything.

Dana good, Kneel bad....
Wont really be settled until WVU makes the changes they need to. Until then WVU will be sub mediocre and Browns fanboys will be excusing away his failure at WVU and keep pretending Holgorsen was worse.
 
Bs. He is playing against some quality in the AAC like Cincy, UCF ( just beat UF), SMU ( beat TCU), Memphis and wouldnt likely have much trouble against the fcs and Kansas that are Neal Browns staple- along with the losing teams Brown— only beaten 4 winning teams in 3 years including a G5– has.

But keep pretending that Holgorsens superior resume for WVU and elsewhere isnt what it is and that 5 wins is doing a good coaching job for WVU.

He got smashed by UC in the AAC title game and didn’t play them or UCF in regular season conference play this year. His best wins were over 8-4 SMU and 6-6 Auburn. He lost to 6-6 TT as well, so that puts him at 2-2 in games against Big XII quality competition. It’s a small sample size but consistent with his larger sample size here. Better than Brown but still not lighting the world on fire.
 
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I agree Brown had 4 years remaining on his original contract, which is plenty of time to show something. The extension wasn't warranted. Personally I think WVU and the non Blue bloods in the Acc, Big 12, and Pac should reconsider their strategy when it comes to giving coach's contracts. I don't think we should give a coach a lucrative deal until he proves he can win with a team he recruited. I know some will be critical of what I just said. In the last year I have seen USC poach a coach from Oklahoma. LSU poached a coach from Notre Dame. We have seen a Texas program that just pisses away money like a malfunctioning ATM machine. There is no contract that WVU or any other program on our level can give a coach that teams from the Sec or Big 10 can't match. Just to clarify I believe when we hire someone fair market value should be given. Until they start winning with their own players no big buyouts attached. I don't want to get hamstrung by an underperforming contract. I have seen to many teams give contracts to coach's with early success that ended up biting them in the a$$ at a later date.

The issue is we will lose a coach after 2 years if this is our strategy if they are having even moderate success. For whatever reason going from 4-8 to 5-5 got Brown on the radar of desperate big pocketed SEC schools which prompted our admin to give the extension. Imagine if we were actually good last year who would have been sniffing around.
 
The issue is we will lose a coach after 2 years if this is our strategy if they are having even moderate success. For whatever reason going from 4-8 to 5-5 got Brown on the radar of desperate big pocketed SEC schools which prompted our admin to give the extension. Imagine if we were actually good last year who would have been sniffing around.
Yeah, then lets imagine we went undefeated and won the national championship.....

Shame Lyings got played....he is a really awful .
 
The issue is we will lose a coach after 2 years if this is our strategy if they are having even moderate success. For whatever reason going from 4-8 to 5-5 got Brown on the radar of desperate big pocketed SEC schools which prompted our admin to give the extension. Imagine if we were actually good last year who would have been sniffing around.
WVU cannot operate from a standpoint of worrying about if the coach has success he will leave. Brown lived off his G5 success at a low level conference but is rapidly dropping WVU into a Kansas level or worse. Brown had a contract in place—no need to extend someone that was not delivering real results. If you thought he was so fantastic coming in then put a big buyout in to help get the next guy.
 
He got smashed by UC in the AAC title game and didn’t play them or UCF in regular season conference play this year. His best wins were over 8-4 SMU and 6-6 Auburn. He lost to 6-6 TT as well, so that puts him at 2-2 in games against Big XII quality competition. It’s a small sample size but consistent with his larger sample size here. Better than Brown but still not lighting the world on fire.
And WVU got smashed in numerous games three years running against nearly every good team Brown faced. Brown, including G5 Army has only gotten WVU FOUR wins against mid or major winning teams in three seasons of games including two bowls!

Meanwhile you are trying to pretend 5 wins is better than 12 wins. Brown would not have lead Houston to anything close to 12 wins, but Holgorsen would have lead WVU to many more wins than Brown has the last three seasons.
 
The issue is we will lose a coach after 2 years if this is our strategy if they are having even moderate success. For whatever reason going from 4-8 to 5-5 got Brown on the radar of desperate big pocketed SEC schools which prompted our admin to give the extension. Imagine if we were actually good last year who would have been sniffing around.
Like I said it should be a strategy that all schools on wvu's level should consider. There isn't any amount of money that wvu or any other non blue blood school in the Pac, Big 12 or Acc can come up that will prevent an Sec or Big 10 school from poaching a coach if they want it. So don't get stuck in a contract that is crippling. If Notre Dame and Oklahoma can't keep their coach there is no way Wvu can. The reality is we are a stepping stone for most new and up and comers.
 
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And WVU got smashed in numerous games three years running against nearly every good team Brown faced. Brown, including G5 Army has only gotten WVU FOUR wins against mid or major winning teams in three seasons of games including two bowls!

Meanwhile you are trying to pretend 5 wins is better than 12 wins. Brown would not have lead Houston to anything close to 12 wins, but Holgorsen would have lead WVU to many more wins than Brown has the last three seasons.

We would have won 10 against Houston’s schedule. I’m not a Brown fan but go look at their schedule, its cupcake city. If you want to choose to ignore that, then go ahead and be an emotional child about it and ignore it I don’t care.
 
Like I said it should be a strategy that all schools on wvu's level should consider. There isn't any amount of money that wvu or any other non blue blood school in the Pac, Big 12 or Acc can come up that will prevent an Sec or Big 10 school from poaching a coach if they want it. So don't get stuck in a contract that is crippling. If Notre Dame and Oklahoma can't keep their coach there is no way Wvu can. The reality is we are a stepping stone for most new and up and comers.

I agree with the premise it’s just tough to navigate. Let’s say South Carolina poached Brown after year 2, then we are dealing with an exodus of players following him and we are scrambling to fill the roster like year 1 under Brown again. With hindsight being 20/20 and we now know that wouldn’t have been a terrible thing, but if we keep doing that we are not going to get traction.

The flip side of the coin is if as another poster said, we win big, well then atleast we are on the receiving end of the huge buyout.
 
I agree with the premise it’s just tough to navigate. Let’s say South Carolina poached Brown after year 2, then we are dealing with an exodus of players following him and we are scrambling to fill the roster like year 1 under Brown again. With hindsight being 20/20 and we now know that wouldn’t have been a terrible thing, but if we keep doing that we are not going to get traction.

The flip side of the coin is if as another poster said, we win big, well then atleast we are on the receiving end of the huge buyout.

Yeah I dont buy that big programs wanted a coach who had a losing record and teams generally looked awful.

Kneel has a good agent
 
Bs. He is playing against some quality in the AAC like Cincy, UCF ( just beat UF), SMU ( beat TCU), Memphis and wouldnt likely have much trouble against the fcs and Kansas that are Neal Browns staple- along with the losing teams Brown— only beaten 4 winning teams in 3 years including a G5– has.

But keep pretending that Holgorsens superior resume for WVU and elsewhere isnt what it is and that 5 wins is doing a good coaching job for WVU.
2019 Houston 4-8
2020 Houston 3-5

2021 Houston 11-2
7-6 Texas Tech - L
4-8 Rice - W
4-7 Grambling State - W
4-8 Navy - W
7-6 Tulsa - W
2-10 Tulane - W
7-5 ECU - W
8-4 SMU - W (his greatest win at Houston all time)
2-10 USF - W
3-9 Temple - W
6-6 Memphis - W
1-11 UCONN - W
12-1 Cincinnati - L
6-7 Auburn - W (his 1 and only P5 win as Houston coach)

Could he have beaten WVU this year. Possibility highly yes but it would hven been another 6-7 team on his record...

Dana 1-3 vs P5
Good for Dana winning 11 games against nobody

Dana is no longer here. He left on his own. No reason to bring him up.
 
Yeah I dont buy that big programs wanted a coach who had a losing record and teams generally looked awful.

Kneel has a good agent

I think you underestimate how depleted the market is for quality coaches. The biggest money program out there just hired Steve friggin Sarkisan. Any coach that shows the slightest progress is getting looks now.
 
I think you underestimate how depleted the market is for quality coaches. The biggest money program out there just hired Steve friggin Sarkisan. Any coach that shows the slightest progress is getting looks now.
So why did wvu chose Kneel Clown?
 
So why did wvu chose Kneel Clown?

Back to back to back 10 win seasons… conference title and division title? His resume is pretty standard for a coach who gets a P5 crack, but I know you want blood and whatever I tell you isn’t going to be acceptable.
 
Back to back to back 10 win seasons… conference title and division title? His resume is pretty standard for a coach who gets a P5 crack, but I know you want blood and whatever I tell you isn’t going to be acceptable.
No...he isnt acceptable. Period.
 
Kneel has a losing record after 3 seasons....

He spent most of his time leading hateful, anti-police marches....

He supports socialist political organizations..

...barely can score against Minnesota

...gets fisted hard by b12 teams...

KNEEL is a hard fister who gets fisted hard, repeatedly...daily, in and out...hard fisting.

WVU needs a coach who doesn't take HARD FISTING. WVU is a NO HARD FISTING ZONE...but KNEEL takes the HAMMER FIST
 
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Rich Rod - No hard fistings.

Dana H - No hard fistings


Kneel Brown - Major hard fisting, on repeat
 
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