Seems like the culture may have changed in the program?
- Thread starter WVU_Dave
- Start date
Is there a season going on that I missed?
At least he beat a Baylor team that finished 7th once. At least he won 7 games against schedules with 4 teams finishing ranked. At least he had us 3 points against OU from a conference championship. You can cherry pick that one stat all you want, but Holgorsen had far more accomplishments and less embarassments across any 5 year stretch you want to select for him compared to Brown's 5 years.
When Chief Red Bull starts looking better than Brown, you know the wheels have come off. I'm ready for basketball.
I suppose you would be one of those who blame the casino for his rowdy drunken behavior at 0330 in the morning..now that is an embarrassment
Way to move the goal posts from your original doofus point that Holgorsen's embarrassments as a coach are worse than Brown's.
But to your point, we are not talking about friends. We are talking about how well a person does a job. It is not a moral failing if you care more about how well a plumber does his job than his private life.
Regardless it is a moot point as I thought Holgorsen wasn't good enough at the job to keep getting extended by WVU. And it is so much worse with Brown. To think it some monumental task to find a guy as nice as Brown, but better at being HC, at WVU is preposterous.
Yes, it is a moot point to compare coaches in the aspect of forming an opinion on Brown and the situation WVU is facing if they decide to make a change. But I differ with many of you on here in the thought Holgorsen was a better HC than Brown. I do not and much prefer Brown's tenure in how he leading the program but I am not viewing Brown's tenure midway through year 6 as successful. Now in terms of success in certain games at WVU, Holgorsen has exceeded Brown and there is very little doubt about it if one looks at facts.
The proof is in the pudding. Holgorsen's results on the field were much better than Brown's. Aspects of Brown are better than Holgorsen and vice versa. But 8 seasons of one and 5.5 of another proves which one overall has been is better.
It’s not even close. Holgorsen was a lot better in terms of wins, excitement. I also think he put more players into the NFL. In terms of nice guy image, Neal wins easily.
Holgorsen also knew where to buy the best red bull and coke candy for the sniffing.
Holgorsen biggest problem was recruiting depth and could never win the games mattered most. If an injury happened to WVU QB under Holgorsen there was nobody that could do a decent job in replacement.
He needed to be injury free or things became very difficult.
Neal's recruits always look good on paper but rarely perform when needed. Especially in their 2nd or 3rd season.
Holgorsen was the definition of an underachiever. Guy is an offensive genius who can’t get his shit together.
Holgorsen teams rarely got blown out (21 times out of 102 games in his 8 years). Was also 36-16 at home. Just couldn't get over the top when needed. I don't know if I would call him an offensive genius but he is far better than Brown and anyone on Brown's staff.
Opinions but disagree. Holgs teams were a disaster defensively, not that Brown's is all that much better. But scheme-wise, Brown wins in that area. I saw Holgs quit on the sideline several times and his teams did too. I have seen Brown's team quit once. Brown runs a better program and represents the school better. Believe it or not which you and others don't, that is important.
Agree on most of your post. Except the statement or false assumption you placed on me that I don’t believe Brown represents the school better than Holgorsen. It does matter, but you still have to win. This isn’t a free charity or community service. This is a business. While I appreciate Brown and his mentorship teaching valuable lessons in life, I don’t appreciate that he’s sinking the program. People pay a lot of money following the program. They have the right to complain. Fact is, he’s not succeeding here. If you’re looking for teaching of morality, go to your church.
I didn't place any belief on you but you sure pulled that bullshit on me. F off.
“Believe it or not which you and others don't, that is important.”
Did you not post that?
That comment is saying the fact the coach represents the school is part of the job and is important. Not that you believe Brown doesn't represent the school better than Holgs. Did you not write this " Except the statement or false assumption you placed on me that I don’t believe Brown represents the school better than Holgorsen."
Regardless, obvious misunderstanding through writing which happens. I'm not here to carry on about most likely an honest mistake in phrasing.
I'm no Holgorsen defender. I think he was low brow in his personal life and not good enough for WVU as a coach. I am just saying anyone trying to elevate Brown's failures by comparing him to Holgorsen's is on a fool's errand. I don't think it is such a huge ask to find a HC better than Brown on the field and better than Holgorsen off the field.
Also, would you rather have a guy with a personal life like Holgorsen who averages 10 wins per season and 4 conference championships over a decade or one whose personal life is like Brown's who averages 8 wins per season and 1 conference championship per decade?
You act as though it is a mutually exclusive position that a coach be either more effective on the field than Brown OR a good representative of the University. It is not and odds are not so long that WVU won't find someone who is better than both. I don't want Holgorsen or Brown. But make no mistake, Holgorsen wasn't allowed to walk because of his "poor representation" of the University. He was not retained because Houston was offering him a guaranteed contact that WVU knew he was not worth. And that is why I compare Holgorsen's on the field accomplishments to Brown's since the University didn't think long term guarantees were worth it for what Holgorsen put on the field and yet Brown got extended twice.
Again, personal opinion of choice. I value how a coach represents the university probably moreso than others on this board. It isn't all about wins EVERY SINGLE YEAR or whether or not a specific play is successful as some pantywipes complain about during the game on the game thread. As it pertains to WVU football and understanding how difficult it is to get recruiting classes that challenge what I see here in SEC country, I'm good with being in the upper tier of the Big 12 conference every year and challenge for the conference championship every 3 years. Now, that will get criticized by those that have what I call "unrealistic" expectations and I'm good with that criticism as what many comments I see are just not realistic.
With all that BS being said, I am firmly in the belief that Brown has failed with almost everything as it pertains to competing for the upper tier in his 6th season. Unlike many others, I do like how his teams try hard every week and he is doing a decent job at recruiting. I will never call for a coach to be fired unless they do something that embarrasses the university and losing a ballgame is not embarrassing to me. Maybe a certain Pitt game in 2007 as an exception.
Point out where I am wrong? You bring up Holgorsen's personal failings when anyone brings up comparisons between he and Brown. I am saying both are inadequate and it is primarily because of how poorly WVU competes on the field. I am also saying that competition on the field is the primary reason WVU let Holgorsen walk and Brown is not being held to that standard.
JFC, you can't read. Not wasting my time left on this world pointing out where someone is wrong. As my mother taught me, you are not entitled to everything you want, get used to it.
I never said anything about Holgorsen's personal failings. Maybe others said something, I didn't and didn't imply it. I simply said representing the university is something I value.
I never said anything about Holgorsen's personal failings. Maybe others said something, I didn't and didn't imply it. I simply said representing the university is something I value.
uh, that was against UC, probably the same caliber of players on the 2nd or 3rd string WVU squad. But I get what you are saying.
While I do agree, we did not fire Holgorsen, and I do believe we'd have had a few very competitive years over the past 6 had he stayed. I think he truly overestimated the value of a school being located in Texas for recruiting when he left. Having to sell against UT, aTm, TT, TCU, and SMU, and really also OU and OSU and convince them Houston is a better choice almost seems foolish in retrospect, versus staying somewhere that you can sell a totally different experience not just to Texas kids, but also Florida, Ohio, PA, and MD/VA. You nab a few talented kids from each state and you have a great team every 3-4 years and a heck of a lot less pressure.
Dana also left because he was held to a different standard than Brown is. He was expected to win more. WVU wouldn’t commit to a long term contract and told him he was “year to year” essentially. Truth is, WVU wanted him gone. You can cite many reasons for that. But Dana leaving was gladly accepted and welcomed.
Explain how you can say a HC does not represent the University well without it involving his personal and/or moral failings?
Brown should be held to an even higher standard. People have held Brown to a lower standard because they like his personality better. I think he's a football coach and people put too much stock in trying to have some Goody Two-Shoes that somehow represents West Virginia better. One of the biggest party states in America has to have some cheesy goofball as a coach to appease people like Bru. I can't do it lol. Just give me a good coach I don't give a shit what his attitude is like. If he's a good coach he's probably going to be hard-nosed not some big softy like brown.
On a side note it would have been nice to see him leave with a little more dignity, but they kept the dude too long and it has become a debacle, like some of us predicted. How stupid.
#EaseHisPain
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Where and when did Holgorsen avg 10 wins a season? When and where did Holgorsen win 4 conference championships? Holgorsen did avg 7.6 wins in 8 years at WVU. Far better than Brown. But Holgorsen only claim to fame is a tie for first in Big East and a tie for first in AAC along with a masterful game over Clemson in the Orange Bowl with previous coaches players. Finished ranked 3 times at WVU in 8 years.
Brown has great family picnics and pool party's and like the song says "just want to have fun." Only finished ranked 1 time at 25th in coaches poll in 2023. He averages 6.2 wins a year. (this avg only includes first 5 season as this season is yet to complete).
I would rather have a coach like Nehlen or Rodriguez.
A coach’s behavior and actions can affect the motivation of athletes.
This is showing true more so than ever before.
I had no trouble with him leaving and many believed Brown could get it down and was considered by the sports nation to be a good hire. Turns out it's not a great fit.
Holgs was an ass-hole which probably made him the coach he is.
You can blame Shane for pushing out Holgorsen and for locking down Brown to an impossible buyout.
I never said Holgorsen averaged 10 wins. It was a hypothetical for anyone who keeps bringing up a coach's non illegal off the field "university representation" when discussing Brown failing miserably at his job. The purpose is to determine if there is a level of success on the field that would make them overlook a coach "representing the university" as poorly as Holgorsen.
I agree with this wholeheartedly and felt that Dana's lack of work ethic and focus on the little things is what held back his WVU teams. The question is for those that think it a moral reflection of the fan if a fan thinks of a coach's moral character as secondary to his ability to get wins. Support for a coach based upon his ability to do the job is no more a moral reflection of you than if your preferred plumber is a drunkard and gambler on his own time.
I'll overlook anything non-criminal, I mean we all went to WVU and partied on high street and in Sunnyside, the old block party, the tailgate pit, etc., so who are we to judge?
