Pens Trade Deadline
- Thread starter WVRON
- Start date
Man, that's kind of a funny question, mostly because I'm largely just as lost as everyone else watching this team. But here goes.......
--No reason NOT to start the teardown now.....I myself thought they should have gotten started 2 years ago, but nobody asked me. Of course, keeping the core + Karlsson together means that can't happen.
--As I see it, nobody in the NHL is going to do the Penguins any favors no matter who they put on the block, mostly because they (as a franchise) are so passionately despised throughout the League.
--Meanwhile, the only thing possibly more passionately despised than the team itself.....especially among the cement-heads in Toronto, and the League media HQ'd there......is Kyle Dubas.
--I keep reading that Dubas is more interested in prospects than draft choices; which seems logical, since anything they'd get from a team chasing the Cup......who are the candidates for Jake, Reilly Smith, and maybe Rusty (assuming he's willing to waive his NTC).....will likely be solidly in the bottom quarter of each round (making every draft choice a major crapshoot).
--Little doubt in my mind that the first player to move will be Nedeljkovic. I also assume that Smith will eventually find his way back to Vegas so long as they have the cap space (and don't add any higher profile guy before him, unless it's Jake)
--I myself don't get the impression Jake wants any part of playing in Western Canada, but he can't do much to stop a trade there (except instruct his agent to tell CGY and VAN that he won't sign either place long term). Moving him to FLA seems like a reasonable possibility, assuming Dubas and Bill Zito get along.
--It would be funny if Dubas could actually find some way to convince Ottawa to take Karlsson back; though I suspect he'll be a much better player for the Pens next season. I also have no clue if they could cut their losses on Graves to, say, the NYR or B's (or even back to the NJD)....or else, someone like DAL.
--No reason NOT to start the teardown now.....I myself thought they should have gotten started 2 years ago, but nobody asked me. Of course, keeping the core + Karlsson together means that can't happen.
--As I see it, nobody in the NHL is going to do the Penguins any favors no matter who they put on the block, mostly because they (as a franchise) are so passionately despised throughout the League.
--Meanwhile, the only thing possibly more passionately despised than the team itself.....especially among the cement-heads in Toronto, and the League media HQ'd there......is Kyle Dubas.
--I keep reading that Dubas is more interested in prospects than draft choices; which seems logical, since anything they'd get from a team chasing the Cup......who are the candidates for Jake, Reilly Smith, and maybe Rusty (assuming he's willing to waive his NTC).....will likely be solidly in the bottom quarter of each round (making every draft choice a major crapshoot).
--Little doubt in my mind that the first player to move will be Nedeljkovic. I also assume that Smith will eventually find his way back to Vegas so long as they have the cap space (and don't add any higher profile guy before him, unless it's Jake)
--I myself don't get the impression Jake wants any part of playing in Western Canada, but he can't do much to stop a trade there (except instruct his agent to tell CGY and VAN that he won't sign either place long term). Moving him to FLA seems like a reasonable possibility, assuming Dubas and Bill Zito get along.
--It would be funny if Dubas could actually find some way to convince Ottawa to take Karlsson back; though I suspect he'll be a much better player for the Pens next season. I also have no clue if they could cut their losses on Graves to, say, the NYR or B's (or even back to the NJD)....or else, someone like DAL.
It’s perplexing to me we’re even in this position. I guess I didn’t realize how bad our bottom 6 was as I thought for sure this was a playoff team. And yea I agree, the reboot should have begun a couple of years ago but the big 3 wouldn’t allow it. But what’s amazing to me is that Dubas seems to fully back Sully and how Reirden has kept his job is a mystery. If a full blown rebuild is going to happen I don’t see how Sully can return. Here’s to hoping for Berube.
Mantha went to Vegas. I read that a three team deal for Jake involving Vancouver and Boston could happen. I’d love to get Lekkerimaki from VAN as part of the deal.
My mistake......I actually knew Mentha was traded to VGK, but my feeble mind typed the wrong team. It's these precise kinds of silly errors of commission....which had been happening more and more frequently...... that prompted me to finally retire back in January. It's one thing to do it on a dumbass Message Board, it's something else to do it to a customer.
This BOS-PIT-VAN 3-way deal as presently presented doesn't excite me much; Debrusk is easily at the bottom of the food chain of the three deal headliners, which tells me Dubas is still pitching. We'll see if Rutherford is finally willing to deal either of his two higher profile prospects (including the kid you mention) to help grease the deal skids.
The problem Rutherford is dealing with in Vancouver......as is the case in every Canadian market......is that local fans (at this time of year especially) are seemingly way more obsessed with their own prospects than legitimate/established incoming pros, and hence overvalue the absolute living shit out of them. With that in mind, I'm not sure JR has earned enough credibility out there to deal with the outcry of giving up what is apparently considered an elite prospect.
I think Dubas is holding out for more than that Lekkerimaki kid, though I doubt he cares if it comes from BOS or VAN. Meanwhile, if the B's end up moving (or intend to move) Ullmark, they'll almost certainly insist Nedeljkovic to be included in this deal.
I also think this is the deal where Lars Eller will move......
Well, trade day obviously turned into a shit show, but what's the difference now. Dubas is getting blamed for everything......and he's making $5+ million/year, so that's part of his contract. And to the extent he overstepped his ability to trade for so-called "top" prospects rather than high draft choices, he clearly went oh for 4 (with 4 strikeouts).
--The Guentzel deal obviously turned into a quantity over quality proposition, and the franchise.....so totally devoid of League quality prospects in house.....needs numbers almost as bad as sheer talent. In other words, if maybe a couple of the players in the deal (including the picks) actually make the team at some point, then the deal is probably about as good as anyone could have realistically expected over time.
--While Bunting is no cornerstone player, he's at least a legitimate pro and usable in Jake's spot (if hardly a great solution). I'm not happy the #1 is conditioned on the Canes making the Finals, but what can you do. Meanwhile, unless he goes crazy in the playoffs, I seriously doubt Guentzel signs a new deal with Carolina; I just can't envision them paying him a higher cap number than Aho or Svechnikov.
--While Dubas is the focus of what everyone in town currently dislikes about the team, I remain clueless as to why absolutely NOBODY in Pens media is willing to take John Henry and FSG to task for the ground rules Dubas has been operating under. Obviously, Henry is leading a 100% behind-the-scenes ownership group.....and nobody in Pittsburgh has any relationships with them.......but make no mistake that Dubas isn't doing a thing without Henry's rubber stamp. Easy for everyone in Pittsburgh to (understandably) lambaste Bob Nutting; not so (at least yet) for John Henry.
--Obviously, the teams needs to figure out how to sell tickets for 2024/25, so figure this summer to be as active as Dubas can make it. But I'd bet he'll push Geno hard to forego his NTC, though I have no clue who'd want him as a no better than part-time/PP-only contributor at $6 million+ a year. I also have absolutely no clue if Sid will backtrack on his "Penguin for Life" position.
--One more thing; Pens will still be paying $1.563 million of Jeff Petry's retained salary next season; and they're still responsible for $917K of Jack Johnson's buyout for each of the next two seasons.
--The Guentzel deal obviously turned into a quantity over quality proposition, and the franchise.....so totally devoid of League quality prospects in house.....needs numbers almost as bad as sheer talent. In other words, if maybe a couple of the players in the deal (including the picks) actually make the team at some point, then the deal is probably about as good as anyone could have realistically expected over time.
--While Bunting is no cornerstone player, he's at least a legitimate pro and usable in Jake's spot (if hardly a great solution). I'm not happy the #1 is conditioned on the Canes making the Finals, but what can you do. Meanwhile, unless he goes crazy in the playoffs, I seriously doubt Guentzel signs a new deal with Carolina; I just can't envision them paying him a higher cap number than Aho or Svechnikov.
--While Dubas is the focus of what everyone in town currently dislikes about the team, I remain clueless as to why absolutely NOBODY in Pens media is willing to take John Henry and FSG to task for the ground rules Dubas has been operating under. Obviously, Henry is leading a 100% behind-the-scenes ownership group.....and nobody in Pittsburgh has any relationships with them.......but make no mistake that Dubas isn't doing a thing without Henry's rubber stamp. Easy for everyone in Pittsburgh to (understandably) lambaste Bob Nutting; not so (at least yet) for John Henry.
--Obviously, the teams needs to figure out how to sell tickets for 2024/25, so figure this summer to be as active as Dubas can make it. But I'd bet he'll push Geno hard to forego his NTC, though I have no clue who'd want him as a no better than part-time/PP-only contributor at $6 million+ a year. I also have absolutely no clue if Sid will backtrack on his "Penguin for Life" position.
--One more thing; Pens will still be paying $1.563 million of Jeff Petry's retained salary next season; and they're still responsible for $917K of Jack Johnson's buyout for each of the next two seasons.
Hey guys, long time no talk with you guys. Hope all has been well with everyone! I absolutely hated to see Jake go. Ned is looking great in the pipes, makes paying Jarry 5 million a year look foolish. Shocked we are on the run we are on, was kinda hoping for tanking the season post the Jake trade to get a lottery pick we wouldn’t have to give up to San Jose because of the Karlsson trade.
Yep up until the recent heater I’ve been rooting for losses to keep that pick. Still going to be an uphill battle to get in but I hope we don’t fall just short hole screwing our selves out of that pick. It would be such a Pens thing to do lol
I totally expect to miss the playoffs but fall out of lottery contention, so that pick will be gone. Also, the canes won’t make the finals, so we will essentially get no sizzle from the Guentzel trade. Bunting is a pro, but he is no Jake. The prospects we obtained were B grade, not 1 A minus type IMO.
So, what will this team look like at camp next October ??
Easy to say they'll take an earth mover to the roster. But I have absolutely no clue as to what they can realistically expect to move and receive something useful in return. Of course, that's before we discuss anyone's current opinion on Dubas (and Sully, for that matter).
As was the case last year, I myself will assume KD's primary marching orders from FSG will be to do whatever is necessary to sell as many 2024/25 season tickets as he can.
Easy to say they'll take an earth mover to the roster. But I have absolutely no clue as to what they can realistically expect to move and receive something useful in return. Of course, that's before we discuss anyone's current opinion on Dubas (and Sully, for that matter).
As was the case last year, I myself will assume KD's primary marching orders from FSG will be to do whatever is necessary to sell as many 2024/25 season tickets as he can.
It’s a shame we dig such a huge hole. And on the end the worst case scenario happened. Just missed the playoffs, and forfeited what would have been a lottery pick had we finished in top 10.
Still not sure how Reirden managed to keep his job. Let alone Sullivan. How many years of futility does it take to force a change?
The Penguins made the mistake that many teams that win the Stanley cup make. They held on to the past to long when they should have been looking to the future. The rebuild should have started two or three seasons ago. Bringing in guys like Karlsson and Carter were a mistake. They needed 20-year-old versions of these guys not guys in their 30's. These guys may have made the team better, but you weren't going to win a cup by adding them. The Chicago Blackhawks are another example of waiting too long to acknowledge the party is over.
I agree 100%. That being said, Carter is retiring and I wish Geno would do the same. We need to clear some cap space first. So moving Graves and perhaps Jars would be a great start. I think Ned is our #1 now and we need that cap space.
Think a team would take Jarry since he is a 5 million per year deal/cap hit? I hope we can find a sucker if so!
Carter comes off the books. We still have a couple more years before Jack Johnson comes off our cap hit. Karlson’s deal is a MAJOR anchor that is not helping our cause.
All we can do currently is waiting until some of the anchors are finally removed via time because most teams will not want to take them unless we sacrifice more and we can’t. We must accumulate draft picks, so let’s hope Carolina makes it out of the East since we give a #1 to San Jose.
Personally, I hope we lock down our young defensive pair of Shea/St. Ivany. I think they have done enough to warrant a much longer look/placement into the rotation. Also, extend Ned.
We’d probably have to retain some salary to move Jars. Hated that deal when it was made. I live the young defensive duo. Hope we can get Graves off the books.
Everything I read claims FSG.....and (IMO) by extension, Dubas.....loves Sullivan to death, presumably because he's a Boston guy. So, unless something really shocking/unexpected occurs, I expect him to be behind the bench fulfilling at least a majority of his new contract.
All I'll say is that I expect Dubas to pitch Jarry to Carolina, especially if the Canes' goaltending disappoints in these playoffs. Might seem a silly thought, but remember that Carolina's defense is good enough to improve pretty much any goaltender. I also think this would be part of Dubas' attempt to leverage the fact Waddell got Guentzel from him on the cheap.
Maybe they can call Edmonton......again, if their goaltending disappoints this Spring.......but I don't know who else would even consider Jarry. Certainly hard for me to imagine anyone else in the East (beside Carolina) would bite on him.
As for Graves......unless Jersey really wants him back for some unknown reason......I can't figure out who'd want him right now at ANY price.
I personally don’t mind Sullivan. It’s TR that is surprising to me. Think Dubas has it in him to force movement in that way?
I’d love to see Carolina take Jarry. They do offer better protection in front, so he may become more serviceable for them. He has value in the league, but his over inflated contract drastically reduces that value.
Graves was bad this year, but I am not writing him off yet. For blue line convo, I commend Peterson and Joseph for working their tails off in covering for Tanger and EK this past year.
For selfish reasons, I want Guentzel back this offseason.
All I know is that somebody has to pay for this season's PP disaster, and it isn't going to be anyone who carries a stick. I think the chances are reasonable that Sully cleans house behind the bench.....if for no other reason than personal cover.......though I haven't the foggiest idea what direction he'd go with that.
Did you read about how Dubas took Graves to the woodshed in today's going-away PC ?? Pretty unusual these days, and he really didn't hold back at all.
Here well after the fact, I'm wondering if Graves might have arrived at camp last Fall in what was viewed to have been in poor shape.
I didn't care that Dubas did it, but it sure sounded like someone trying to cover himself publicly for what proved (thus far) to be among the worst signing decisions in team history. So, light a fire under they guy's seat and see if the signing can be salvaged......fortunately, plenty of time to do just that.
I also appreciated him calling out the roster for the crash and burn in the aftermath of the Guentzel deal. These guys acted like this was the first time something like this has ever happened. Unfortunately, Sid was at the head of their feeling-sorry-for-themselves class.
The news about Letang's injuries does not sound good. If he's forced to have surgery of some type, Dubas was sure acting as though it might be a potentially serious procedure. I just hope it's not stroke/brain related. No matter how anyone feels about him, he's at the age where something like this, I suppose, could be career-threatening.
I agree with you about Guentzel, but we all know players very seldom (if ever) resign with the team that traded them. Given the fact Dubas (supposedly) never talked to the Guentzel camp at all about a new deal, I'm not sure why they'd start again now. However, I got the impression that Jake made it clear from the get-go he was taking it to July 1 no matter what. If so, why break your ass to sign him with no expectation he'd respond favorably ??
I could see him getting legit interest from Boston, Buffalo, Chicago, Columbus, Detroit......and Carolina. I suspect the Cryers and Craps would like to be in that discussion as well; but I don't think either team has as favorable a cap situation as the others.
