Pens -- 2020 Off-season

COOL MAN

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With the Flames now out of the picture, it sounds like they're back to blaming everything on Johnny Hockey......pretty much like they did last year.

I don't watch the Flames, so I have no clue if this is warranted; but as a Pens fan, I'm well aware a scapegoat(s) has to established. Since it seems Gaudreau has officially hung himself out ot dry with Flames faithful, you'd think they'll make a sincere effort (more so than last season) to move him this offseason; trying to figure out what they can expect in return.

I see he's got 2 more seasons at $6.75 million, which isn't stupid money (though obviously not cheap) for someone looking for a scoring winger. I also know he's earned the rep as a playoff no-show-er; but he had 10 points in 10 games this season, which is at least decent. Frankly, I could see the Craps making a play for him, though they'd probably have to move Vrana as part of any such deal.

I'm also reading that Sean Monahan may be on the way out as well; he's got 3 seasons left at $6.375 million. Getting rid of both these guys would represent a pretty serious house cleaning.
 

COOL MAN

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Todd Reirdon out in Washington, which I believe WAS expected after the Craps' egg laying vs the Isles. I wonder to what extent Craps fans have been taking ownership to task the past couple years for ejecting arguably THE best coach in the game. No guarantee they'd have won the Cup the last 2 years whether or not Trotz was still behind the bench, of course.......
 
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COOL MAN

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https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/fleury-doesnt-want-distraction-asked-agent-remove-post/sn-amp/
Don't want to be a distraction? Well I'd argue you've failed in that regard Flower...
Not sure MAF has any reason to be pleased how he's gone from local hero to afterthought in Las Vegas.......but it'll always be a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately business.

Meanwhile, all Lehner has done the past couple seasons is pretty much everything his teams have wanted from a goaltender, and he still can't earn a long term deal (for all the well known reasons). Wondering if Vegas will finally break that rule.....especially if he gets the Knights to the Finals again.
 
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COOL MAN

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Kingerski thinks the Pens can/should get involved with Calgary with Gaudreau and Zucker as principals......mostly because he doesn't think the Flames have much leverage if they're truly ready to move on from Gaudreau. Not sure I disagree that from a distance; and any deal for Gaudreau will almost assuredly require decent salary to move back to Calgary.

Who knows........
 

torontoeers

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Not sure MAF has any reason to be pleased how he's gone from local hero to afterthought in Las Vegas.......but it'll always be a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately business.

Meanwhile, all Lehner has done the past couple seasons is pretty much everything his teams have wanted from a goaltender, and he still can't earn a long term deal (for all the well known reasons). Wondering if Vegas will finally break that rule.....especially if he gets the Knights to the Finals again.
I can't imagine MAF's teammates being overly pleased with the entire scenario. And wonder what their discussion was with him. Something along the likes of 'Did you know about this? Don't really care if you did or didn't, we have games to win and no time for a pity party'.... Whether or not he deserves to sit on the pine doesnt matter either imo. As you said it's what have you done for me lately...
 
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torontoeers

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Todd Reirdon out in Washington, which I believe WAS expected after the Craps' egg laying vs the Isles. I wonder to what extent Craps fans have been taking ownership to task the past couple years for ejecting arguably THE best coach in the game. No guarantee they'd have won the Cup the last 2 years whether or not Trotz was still behind the bench, of course.......
As per this... MacLellan says 'we need an experienced head coach' lol! You had him, and played russian roulette whether or not Trotz was playing hardball...deciding to bring in a substitute teacher as babysitter. Hell, whatever...it works for me...the curse of Barry Trotz? That'd be awesome imo...
 
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COOL MAN

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As per this... MacLellan says 'we need an experienced head coach' lol! You had him, and played russian roulette whether or not Trotz was playing hardball...deciding to bring in a substitute teacher as babysitter. Hell, whatever...it works for me...the curse of Barry Trotz? That'd be awesome imo...
So, the names I've been hearing associated with the Craps are the reflex answers.......Babcock, Gallant, and Laviolette.

If the Pope couldn't get along with Marner/Matthews/Tavares, how's he going to manage Backstrom/Kuznetsov/Ovi ?? The NHLN guys were focusing yesterday on Laviolette, though all three seem to be thought of as quality coaches with limited shelf life.

If Leonsis wouldn't pay Trotz, I find it hard to believe he'll pay Pope Mike (though Trotz's situation was suppposedly more about supposed gentlemen's agreements with the franchise than sheer money). I'm still not sure why Gallant isn't working; guess I'm wondering if he doesn't have the best reputation as the public face of a franchise after the Vegas thing crashed and burned on him pretty spectacularly.

I also read that MIke Velucci is thought of as some as a possibility; though those same folks figure he's on his way to Pittsburgh as an assistant, therefore putting him in line as Sully's eventual replacement. On paper, the Craps situation would seem to be a good fit for Laviolette's act.

Meanwhile, been wondering what kind of fit Pope Mike would be in Seattle......I believe he's spent a fair amount of his career out West, and might therefore be amenable to getting back out there. I don't know if he's been associated with the opening (or, for that matter, if he gets along with Francis).
 
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COOL MAN

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Kapanen and a minor league D-man (sounds like a throw-in) to Pens for their (presumably) 2020 #1; I haven't seen enough of KK to know if that's a good/reasonable deal or not. From what I can tell, the kid can play.......but I'm not sure he's a good enough return for the highest pick they've had in a decade. Sounds like the deal includes no salary withhold by the Leaves.

t ???
 
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COOL MAN

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Pens also said to be getting minor league winger Pontius Aberg (who I remember playing with Nashville)......Pens also move Fillip Halander, rights to Even Rodrigues, and Dave Warsofsky.
 
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torontoeers

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Kapanen and a minor league D-man (sounds like a throw-in) to Pens for their (presumably) 2020 #1; I haven't seen enough of KK to know if that's a good/reasonable deal or not. From what I can tell, the kid can play.......but I'm not sure he's a good enough return for the highest pick they've had in a decade. Sounds like the deal includes no salary withhold by the Leaves.

t ???
I think jr is losing his mind.
This is nutz for our first??? This year? In a deep draft?
The guy is a decent player but a problem child, and not what the Pens need . Yes he is losing his freakin mind. This new forum format sucks if I haven't already said it btw.
 

COOL MAN

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Obviously, Rutherford continues to refuse to bide his time for draft picks to come around........I'd like to think he also believes KK to be a better long-term prospect than any winger that's expected to be available in this Draft. You're free to disagree with that (as I think I do). I'm also unsure why he was apparently so willing to move Hallander, who was (comparatively speaking) one of the team's better prospects.

Looks to me this remains a classic Rutherford deal where he's more interested in the short than long term; understandable for him, but why ownership continues to authorize these kinds of deals is hard to understand.
 

Irwineer2

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@ColoradoMountaineer ....I imagine since your Preds are out, you must be impressed with your Av's meantime? They look absolutely deadly as do the younger buck Canucks. This is the series I want to see. Plenty of skill with a small amount of dirty. **** Vegas, all of it with them. Dallas is not good enough on the whole imo. They have weak spots.
This post has aged well.
 
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torontoeers

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Obviously, Rutherford continues to refuse to bide his time for draft picks to come around........I'd like to think he also believes KK to be a better long-term prospect than any winger that's expected to be available in this Draft. You're free to disagree with that (as I think I do). I'm also unsure why he was apparently so willing to move Hallander, who was (comparatively speaking) one of the team's better prospects.

Looks to me this remains a classic Rutherford deal where he's more interested in the short than long term; understandable for him, but why ownership continues to authorize these kinds of deals is hard to understand.
Agreed... so no teardown whatsoever. Instead this guy thinks he can turn the chicken shit we've all been watching to chicken salad while trading away legit assets .... btw Kap likes to sleep in from practice quite often. He'll fit into the country club quite nicely...
 
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COOL MAN

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Agreed... so no teardown whatsoever. Instead this guy thinks he can turn the chicken shit we've all been watching to chicken salad while trading away legit assets .... btw Kap likes to sleep in from practice quite often. He'll fit into the country club quite nicely...
Hmmm.....I find myself wondering how happy KK was playing in Toronto. Can't tell that from where I live.
 
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Irwineer2

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Agreed... so no teardown whatsoever. Instead this guy thinks he can turn the chicken shit we've all been watching to chicken salad while trading away legit assets .... btw Kap likes to sleep in from practice quite often. He'll fit into the country club quite nicely...
The country club is the fvcking problem.
 
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torontoeers

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Hmmm.....I find myself wondering how happy KK was playing in Toronto. Can't tell that from where I live.
He had every opportunity to play with the big guns and failed, under two different coaches. Doesn't enjoy discipline as a regular player. About the only good thing I can say about him is he's a decent guy on your PK for some strange reason. 5 on 5 or PP not so much. I guess we have to hope he can find a way to fit in...but I'm not holding my breath.
 
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In thinking, the closest I could equate Kap to would be a young Hags (and I did like Hags as a Pen for mostpart)... Quick, but no real hands to speak of. A third liner. For the #15 pick. That math simply doesnt line up for me whatsoever.
 

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The only way this deal would have been a good one is if we shipped JJ and his contract off as part of the deal.

It’s obvious GMJR had a hard on for Kap and he was hell bent on getting him no matter what the cost. A first alone would be too much. Ugh.
 
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The only way this deal would have been a good one is if we shipped JJ and his contract off as part of the deal.

It’s obvious GMJR had a hard on for Kap and he was hell bent on getting him no matter what the cost. A first alone would be too much. Ugh.
He will happily give the Leaves the cap room they so desperately needed however... which I am left wondering if GMJR is really talking out his ass about reducing the cap number. Sure he obviously wasnt planning on re-signing Rod, and jettisoned 400 g's from Warsofsky, all while taking on 3 point some mill of KK.
These deals of late stink of self preservation if you ask me...
 
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COOL MAN

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He will happily give the Leaves the cap room they so desperately needed however... which I am left wondering if GMJR is really talking out his ass about reducing the cap number. Sure he obviously wasnt planning on re-signing Rod, and jettisoned 400 g's from Warsofsky, all while taking on 3 point some mill of KK.
These deals of late stink of self preservation if you ask me...

Pretty much every deal JR has made which includes a #1 pick screams self-preservation (and in the shortest possible terms).

For the record, Kingerski was reporting noises this morning indicating that both Johnson and/or Brian Rust may have been discussed as part of the deal......neither of which came to fruition.

Meanwhile, I'm guessing JR figures Sheary's current cap space will handle KK next season.
 
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torontoeers

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Well... since GMJR shows no signs of giving up...my #1 get on D would be Jonas Brodin out of Minny. He is shutdown/lockdown with good wheels. 4.1 on the cap hit one year remaining . And why wouldn't he be interested heavily if he is re-tooling rather than tearing it apart. If he is aiming toward some Mike Green type nonsense I'd rather not watch the crap that will undoubtedly ensue...
 

COOL MAN

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According to DK, the trade was simply about Rutherford's belief this team remains a contender, and the deal is simply a cut and dried exchange of future assets for current assets.

It seems he essetially doesn't figure Hallander, Rodrigues, and Warsofsky to be of anymore value.....certainly in the short term.....than Lindgren and Aberg for a team that's still "going for it". In other words, he views the trade, for all intents and purposes, to be the #1 for KK.

I myself am less concerned about a deal of this type than I am if KK is/was the most valuable asset available on the market for the the #15 pick. I personally find that hard to believe; but nobody is asking for my opinion on this point. Still, I can't help but wonder if they could have actually gotten Gaudreau or Monahan as the principal in exchange for the #15.

Meanwhile, this deal (and DK's perspective) makes it sound like Rutherford will hang around as long as Sid, Geno, and Letang are still playing......maybe that'll change when Geno's deal expires in 2 years.......and only then will he hang it up, leaving his successor largely hamstrung.

Whoever is the team's next GM will likely be able to sign a nice long contract, because I think most of us will agree he'll have trouble being competitive (let alone contending) for at least several years. I'm beginning to think it's now very likely to be Jason Botterill; after all, why would any otherwise undamaged GM candidate want the Pens' job with no tools in hand for the rebuild ??

BTW, if you weren't aware, Aberg is said to be committed to the KHL for next season, after having signed a 1 year deal when the Leaves decided not to invite him to the bubble tryouts.
 
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Good post @COOL MAN . It’s apparent their familiarity with Kaps is why they made the trade. Same thing goes for Sheary. The wanted guys they know and trust who are still young and have speed. Personally I’d take Kahun over Sheary and maybe even over Kaps. But it’s clear what GMJR is doing wether we like it or not. If we open the season with JJ on the 3rd pairing then I give up having any hope.
 

COOL MAN

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Good post @COOL MAN . It’s apparent their familiarity with Kaps is why they made the trade. Same thing goes for Sheary. The wanted guys they know and trust who are still young and have speed. Personally I’d take Kahun over Sheary and maybe even over Kaps. But it’s clear what GMJR is doing wether we like it or not. If we open the season with JJ on the 3rd pairing then I give up having any hope.
Interesting perspective.......not sure I agree with it, but I certainly wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.
 
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COOL MAN

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Here's one of.....if not the only........positive spin I've read thus far on the deal from columnist Joe Starkey of the Pitt Post Gazette. FWIW, I think he soft-pedals Ken Campbell's comments, and badly oversimplifies what's in the System when he compares it to that Ray Shero left (which I admittedly also thought was pretty slim).

The Penguins were one of the oldest teams in the bubble, it’s true. But that isn’t necessarily the case moving forward. It’s not like they’ll be attending team-wide early bird specials before games next season.


In fact, once you say goodbye to 40-year-old Patrick Marleau (the Penguins surely will) and maybe 33-year-old Jack Johnson (they surely should), this team could enter next season with only four players in their 30s: Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin, Kris Letang and Patric Hornqvist, and who knows if they try to deal Hornqvist (they shouldn’t)?

The Boston Bruins seem to be doing pretty well with a handful of guys in their 30s (Brad Marchand, Patrice Bergeron, David Krejci, Jaroslav Halak and 43-year-old Zdeno Chara). The key is to supplement those players with quality 20-somethings, because while aging stars can be major contributors, they don’t usually carry teams to Cups. David Pastrnak, 23, became the Bruins’ biggest star this season.

The Penguins have plenty of 20-something talent on their roster. They got younger, faster and feistier Tuesday afternoon, when general manager Jim Rutherford sent a first-round pick and other pieces to the Toronto Maple Leafs in exchange for a player Rutherford drafted, parlayed into Phil Kessel and has long since admired — speedy right winger Kasperi Kapanen.

The logical spot for Kapanen is Sidney Crosby’s right wing (not sure if you’ve heard, but Sid needs a winger). That would potentially give the Penguins a top six of Jake Guentzel, 25, Crosby, Kapanen (turned 24 last month), Jason Zucker, 28, Malkin and Bryan Rust, 27. I’m thinking a lot of teams would trade for that top six.

Whether Kapanen can thrive alongside Crosby is of course an open question. Veteran reporter Ken Campbell of The Hockey News is based in Toronto, so he has seen plenty of Kapanen. I asked Campbell if he sees Kapanen as a fit for Crosby.

“I don’t think he’s the answer, but you never know,” Campbell said. “There’s a lot of guys like that, where their hand speed doesn’t match their foot speed, and I think this is probably another one of those guys.”

Fair enough, but a guy doesn’t have to be Mike Bossy to play next to Crosby. He needs to think the game like him and play fast. Guys such as Chris Kunitz and Pascal Dupuis were excellent linemates.

Critics trotted out Kapanen’s questionable advanced stats Tuesday, but guess what? Those numbers might look a little different playing next to Crosby and Guentzel.

Crosby could bring out the best in Kapanen, who scored 20 goals two years ago. Shoot, if he can hit an empty net from the goal line, he’ll be an upgrade from the likes of Dominik Simon. But if things don’t work out there — and it’s never a guarantee when you’re attempting to collaborate with a great player — Kapanen could upgrade the bottom six.

In any case, this was a step in the right direction. And for those of you flipping out over Rutherford trading another first-round pick, plus prospect Filip Hallander, relax. You’re probably the same people who accused Ray Shero of leaving an empty cupboard. You know, before players such as Rust, Matt Murray, Olli Maatta, Dumoulin and Guentzel helped the Penguins win Cups.

There are many ways to procure young players. The Penguins are pretty good at signing college free agents, for example. But if you’re still hung up on losing those precious first-round picks, just pretend John Marino was one (he’s 22 and was stolen from Edmonton for a late-round pick). Pretend Marcus Pettersson, 23, was another. Pretend Kapanen is this year’s 15th overall pick — the bonus being that he has already proven he can play.

I don’t look at this deal as one of those “window-closing” type moves, even if Rutherford seems to.

“When you look at what our goal is, to contend within this group of Sid, Geno and Tanger, these are the kind of deals you have to make,” he said. “You know at some time you might pay the price for that down the road. But this is what we feel we need to do to continue to contend."

To acquire a likely top-six winger who just turned 24 for the uncertainty of the 15th pick? I like that deal. It’s not like you just traded the fifth pick.

Meanwhile, the Penguins hardly are decrepit. Besides all the players already mentioned, Brian Dumoulin and Brandon Tanev are still in their 20s. Presumptive No. 1 goalie Tristan Jarry is 24.

A key question moving forward is what to do with 24-year-old Jared McCann. Is he the No. 3 center? He went downhill fast the second half of the season, and the Penguins just brought in a $3.2 million salary in Kapanen’s. They might have to make a tough decision on McCann, a restricted free agent.

Rutherford has plenty of tough decisions ahead. I’m thinking he made a good one Tuesday.
 
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torontoeers

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Here's one of.....if not the only........positive spin I've read thus far on the deal from columnist Joe Starkey of the Pitt Post Gazette. FWIW, I think he soft-pedals Ken Campbell's comments, and badly oversimplifies what's in the System when he compares it to that Ray Shero left (which I admittedly also thought was pretty slim).

The Penguins were one of the oldest teams in the bubble, it’s true. But that isn’t necessarily the case moving forward. It’s not like they’ll be attending team-wide early bird specials before games next season.

In fact, once you say goodbye to 40-year-old Patrick Marleau (the Penguins surely will) and maybe 33-year-old Jack Johnson (they surely should), this team could enter next season with only four players in their 30s: Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin, Kris Letang and Patric Hornqvist, and who knows if they try to deal Hornqvist (they shouldn’t)?

The Boston Bruins seem to be doing pretty well with a handful of guys in their 30s (Brad Marchand, Patrice Bergeron, David Krejci, Jaroslav Halak and 43-year-old Zdeno Chara). The key is to supplement those players with quality 20-somethings, because while aging stars can be major contributors, they don’t usually carry teams to Cups. David Pastrnak, 23, became the Bruins’ biggest star this season.

The Penguins have plenty of 20-something talent on their roster. They got younger, faster and feistier Tuesday afternoon, when general manager Jim Rutherford sent a first-round pick and other pieces to the Toronto Maple Leafs in exchange for a player Rutherford drafted, parlayed into Phil Kessel and has long since admired — speedy right winger Kasperi Kapanen.

The logical spot for Kapanen is Sidney Crosby’s right wing (not sure if you’ve heard, but Sid needs a winger). That would potentially give the Penguins a top six of Jake Guentzel, 25, Crosby, Kapanen (turned 24 last month), Jason Zucker, 28, Malkin and Bryan Rust, 27. I’m thinking a lot of teams would trade for that top six.

Whether Kapanen can thrive alongside Crosby is of course an open question. Veteran reporter Ken Campbell of The Hockey News is based in Toronto, so he has seen plenty of Kapanen. I asked Campbell if he sees Kapanen as a fit for Crosby.

“I don’t think he’s the answer, but you never know,” Campbell said. “There’s a lot of guys like that, where their hand speed doesn’t match their foot speed, and I think this is probably another one of those guys.”

Fair enough, but a guy doesn’t have to be Mike Bossy to play next to Crosby. He needs to think the game like him and play fast. Guys such as Chris Kunitz and Pascal Dupuis were excellent linemates.

Critics trotted out Kapanen’s questionable advanced stats Tuesday, but guess what? Those numbers might look a little different playing next to Crosby and Guentzel.

Crosby could bring out the best in Kapanen, who scored 20 goals two years ago. Shoot, if he can hit an empty net from the goal line, he’ll be an upgrade from the likes of Dominik Simon. But if things don’t work out there — and it’s never a guarantee when you’re attempting to collaborate with a great player — Kapanen could upgrade the bottom six.

In any case, this was a step in the right direction. And for those of you flipping out over Rutherford trading another first-round pick, plus prospect Filip Hallander, relax. You’re probably the same people who accused Ray Shero of leaving an empty cupboard. You know, before players such as Rust, Matt Murray, Olli Maatta, Dumoulin and Guentzel helped the Penguins win Cups.

There are many ways to procure young players. The Penguins are pretty good at signing college free agents, for example. But if you’re still hung up on losing those precious first-round picks, just pretend John Marino was one (he’s 22 and was stolen from Edmonton for a late-round pick). Pretend Marcus Pettersson, 23, was another. Pretend Kapanen is this year’s 15th overall pick — the bonus being that he has already proven he can play.

I don’t look at this deal as one of those “window-closing” type moves, even if Rutherford seems to.

“When you look at what our goal is, to contend within this group of Sid, Geno and Tanger, these are the kind of deals you have to make,” he said. “You know at some time you might pay the price for that down the road. But this is what we feel we need to do to continue to contend."

To acquire a likely top-six winger who just turned 24 for the uncertainty of the 15th pick? I like that deal. It’s not like you just traded the fifth pick.

Meanwhile, the Penguins hardly are decrepit. Besides all the players already mentioned, Brian Dumoulin and Brandon Tanev are still in their 20s. Presumptive No. 1 goalie Tristan Jarry is 24.

A key question moving forward is what to do with 24-year-old Jared McCann. Is he the No. 3 center? He went downhill fast the second half of the season, and the Penguins just brought in a $3.2 million salary in Kapanen’s. They might have to make a tough decision on McCann, a restricted free agent.


Rutherford has plenty of tough decisions ahead. I’m thinking he made a good one Tuesday.
I admittedly begged to see McCann at C, by the looks of it, I was wrong. When re-introduced to the position at times this year he failed, and miserably imo.
This quote here...'
I don’t think he’s the answer, but you never know,” Campbell said. “There’s a lot of guys like that, where their hand speed doesn’t match their foot speed, and I think this is probably another one of those guys.”

Fair enough, but a guy doesn’t have to be Mike Bossy to play next to Crosby. He needs to think the game like him and play fast. Guys such as Chris Kunitz and Pascal Dupuis were excellent linemates' .
Uh what does he think Matthews and Tavares were chopped liver??? Somehow Sid is different? Well yes but not in the way he is speaking imo... and Kunitz and Dupuis were also excellent hockey players. Kap is not that, perhaps yet...
in retrospect over the last day or so I have calmed a bit...just a bit. We all here (I think) would know the type of players GMJR simply must acquire in order to be competitive. I also believe most of us here would be happy to see some jam and effort on a consistent basis. We all may not be happy to see them go out next year in a 2nd , hell even a 1st round loss, but what would certainly placate us imo is a solid effort should it happen (7 games rather than 4) .... I was perturbed quite a bit watching this years squad, right from the get go... hopefully things change next year. GMJR has started the course, is it the correct one? I guess with a few more moves we will see....
 
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torontoeers

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Not that I really care overall but will be interesting to see does Deboer stick with Lehner after 4 g against last night (which according to several analysts I heard weren't really weak ones), or 'stick' the sword wielding backstopper in there tomorrow... my bet says they/ he sticks with Lehner, a bit juicy regardless....
 
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Irwineer2

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Not that I really care overall but will be interesting to see does Deboer stick with Lehner after 4 g against last night (which according to several analysts I heard weren't really weak ones), or 'stick' the sword wielding backstopper in there tomorrow... my bet says they/ he sticks with Lehner, a bit juicy regardless....

after the tweet, if I'm deboner, I ride my guy.
 
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