First trip in my 2021 f250 7.3 , very impressive for a big block 14 mpg from parkersburg to NJ. Motor & transmission seems to be very well tuned to each other . It has 3.55 gears 10 speed transmission. It's the xl package with six appearance & fx4off rd ...pretty basic inside vinyl flooring cloth seats. Ford really dropped the ball on the interior of the basic work truck , wow ...they tried to add to many comforts of the fancy models & took away comforts of the dirty hands working man...but so far so good
New truck ...
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No , but if they had a super duty hybrid I would seriously consider it .
If I was a young man I would be learning how to work on electric cars, they are not going away .
I know Ford is really pushing the in-bed plug ins that allow you to run electric tools, entertainment equipment etc off the truck's power supply. Pretty cool idea.
It’s really unbelievable to me that it’s taken this long for vehicle manufacturers to include that kind of utility.
My Dad's F150 has been acting extremely odd. When switching gears, between 7 and 10, the vehicle shutters 3 times in a row. It randomly happens, but always happens when between gears 7 and 10. Only 7000 miles on the truck. You noticed anything like that?
My BIL had bought a new Ford as well, it had to have it's engine replaced and has been nothing but trouble.
My BIL had bought a new Ford as well, it had to have it's engine replaced and has been nothing but trouble.
It's my understanding that electric vehicles require much less maintenance so I think as they increase their share of the market there will be fewer people required to repair cars.
I wonder if that's a product of electric vehicles not being able to go very far, leading to less wear and tear on the vehicle? If what you claim is even true.
In my opinion, the biggest barrier for electric vehicles is the distance they can travel and infrastructure to re charge. Gasoline engines can stop at any one of the hundreds of thousand filling stations and be back on the road in 15 minutes.
I had a 1989 Ford F-150 that I bought new in 1989. Never had a bit of trouble with it and I didn't take the best of care with it. Sold it in September to a guy who ended up being the nephew of my first girlfriend....not that that has anything to to do with anything.
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It's a function of how they work. They're much simpler and have way fewer moving parts than ICE cars.
Way fewer moving parts as compared to IC engine, fewer things to go wrong.
That concept was a direct response to customer surveys in marketing about improving the vehicle's utility.
Actually EVs require significantly more parts....electrical components which are often hard to get and software updates which tend to be obsolete the moment they are uploaded into the vehicle's main data systems. The other problem is not many service technicians are qualified or properly trained to work on EVs. Ford requires Blue Oval certified techs only in order to pay any warranty repairs on EVs.
It costs thousands of dollars and over 1500 bench hours to reach Blue Oval certification. Not many service techs have the time or $$$$$$$$ to reach Blue Oval EV certification.
Hey Snow Sled Baby have you noticed the improved "My Touch" navigation screen and software integration with your mobile devices? That seems to be winning customers I speak with.
An electric motor is so much simpler mechanically. No exhaust on the car. No air intake. Just batteries and the the chassis parts.
Yes it is pretty cool. Like being able to start it from another state. Just hate paying for unneeded stuff that can cause me major problems down the rd .
Fiance has a 2020 rav4 & they magically upgraded the software one night as we was sleeping & the car had to be towed to the dealership, she lost a days pay ..
My 14 has 250,000 & no problem
This new one dont have 1000 on it ..better not have any problems
Just curious Snow My Man...what type of additional warranty if any did you purchase with your F250? Did you go with the standard factory warranty or did you opt for any of the ESPs available for that vehicle?
OK...let me give you folks an idea of how many electrical components are behind your average run-of-the-mill EV?
Got a computer? Smart phone? Flat screen T-V? Most of you do right? Disassemble one of those devices and just look how many individual pieces it takes to put one of them together.
Now imagine an EV with literally thousands of more moving parts and dozens of running applications? The main control panel is infinitely more complicated than the most sophisticated iPhone! C'mon guys. You all are smarter than that!
True, EVs don't have internal combustion engines, but the electronics and various components built into one of them make gasoline engines look simple.
Those kinds of electronics can be in any car. They're in new ICE cars too. The simple part of an EV compared to an ICE car is the motor.
Yes I'm aware of that. My point is the EVs main computer system (which controls how the vehicle actually runs) is assembled with literally thousands of individual electrical components. Those are in addition to what you correctly describe are integrated into most of today's ICE vehicles.
There aren't fewer "parts" just because there is no motor. It's laughable.
Yes electric motors are simpler, with fewer "moving" parts than the typical ICE. however as this article points out, the complexity of designing an electric motor that is both operationally efficient as well as equally responsive in performance to an ICE is challenging and requires electrical components and software that dwarf the parts list of your average gasoline engine.
Full article here
www.autonews.com
excerpt:
Compared with a typical four-cylinder internal combustion engine, which has hundreds of moving parts, the electric motor is very simple. Motors have a rotor, stator, armature, commutator, windings and bearings. While they may be far less complex than gasoline or diesel engines, electric motors pose their own challenges. Some, such as cost, weight and smoothness, are the same as those facing internal combustion engines.
...more
"In a car, size matters. Mass matters. Cost, performance, efficiency, and [noise, vibration and harshness] matter. That's the beautiful thing about an automobile. It brings together almost every cross-functional element," Nitz told me. "Whether it is a combustion engine or an electric motor, they all have to be optimized. The objective is to move people and not take a lot of space and mass and have tremendous efficiency."
...more
"Geometric dimensioning and tolerancing of the bearing systems to hold the rotor and keep it concentric, and how the stator is mounted to the rotor is probably one of the most challenging jobs that I can think of," Nitz said. "It's as challenging as anything we do in transmissions, maybe a little more." The inner workings of electric motors dovetails perfectly with how the conversation about automotive power trains is going to change in the coming years. There will be less talk of turbochargers, 10-speed transmissions, variable valve timing, pistons, fuel injection and ignition systems and more about traction motors, inverters, magnets and windings.
Full article here
The complexity and engineering challenges of the electric motor
The change from internal combustion engines to electric motors will be one of the biggest the industry has ever faced.
www.autonews.com
excerpt:
Compared with a typical four-cylinder internal combustion engine, which has hundreds of moving parts, the electric motor is very simple. Motors have a rotor, stator, armature, commutator, windings and bearings. While they may be far less complex than gasoline or diesel engines, electric motors pose their own challenges. Some, such as cost, weight and smoothness, are the same as those facing internal combustion engines.
...more
"In a car, size matters. Mass matters. Cost, performance, efficiency, and [noise, vibration and harshness] matter. That's the beautiful thing about an automobile. It brings together almost every cross-functional element," Nitz told me. "Whether it is a combustion engine or an electric motor, they all have to be optimized. The objective is to move people and not take a lot of space and mass and have tremendous efficiency."
...more
"Geometric dimensioning and tolerancing of the bearing systems to hold the rotor and keep it concentric, and how the stator is mounted to the rotor is probably one of the most challenging jobs that I can think of," Nitz said. "It's as challenging as anything we do in transmissions, maybe a little more." The inner workings of electric motors dovetails perfectly with how the conversation about automotive power trains is going to change in the coming years. There will be less talk of turbochargers, 10-speed transmissions, variable valve timing, pistons, fuel injection and ignition systems and more about traction motors, inverters, magnets and windings.
On EV's, it isn't so much the actual motor (which has fewer moving parts than ICE vehicles,) but all the technology required to make the motors run efficiently.
So there are 3 major “modes” of thought on the drive-train of current production electric cars-
The reducer gear constitutes 8 - 10 moving parts by the same logic as the motor plus a few spacers, though this can depend on the type of reducer gear they use. Planetary is typical for High RPM electric motors, which would be a large number of moving parts, though I feel like I’ve heard they use a helical spur in Teslas.
Now, adding in a little bit of bad news - Electric motors of this power must have a liquid cooling system, sometimes multiple systems, working on the motors, the VFD electronics (Variable Frequency Drive - what controls the operating speed of the AC motors), and the batteries separately. In addition, the Motors on the Tesla cool the rotor as well as the stator, which introduces a couple union junctions to the mix that add a few more moving parts. for each system you need a separate pump, not coupled to the motor, which can add up to a dozen or so moving parts per pump (depends on the pump), plus a few for the union junctions, plus whatever valves and the like they have in there. all in all, you probably end up with + 20 - 30 parts per car for the cooling systems. so final, VERY ballpark final counts
Several hundreds of moving parts. 1000+ on higher performance motors. the biggest count savings are in the motor and gearbox, obviously. so it’s really no comparison at all. mechanically speaking, electric cars should be dramatically more reliable. electronically speaking? remains to be seen.
in general the widespread use of complex modern electronics is unprecedented in motor vehicles on such a scale so the reliability data over the long haul is really unknown.
There are many expensive components, modules and systems in electric cars each representing a potential point of failure compared to mechanical systems which is a better known entity with a demonstrable reliability history.
With that in mind, we can probably postulate that should the center LC display go bad on the Tesla, for example, or its motor controller, charging system, batteries, and its many potential points of failure in the electrical systems, each of these repairs will prove costly even if they have been reliable so far in its short vehicle history.
Of greater concern is the unknown future availability of OEM replacement parts as there will unlikely be alternate sources.
Source:
www.quora.com
So there are 3 major “modes” of thought on the drive-train of current production electric cars-
- the Single Motor design - Requires a motor, followed by a single reducer gearbox, followed by a differential. one pair of wheels is left to float, or is hooked through another differential to make a 4WD system. This is Tesla Motor’s current 2WD design.
- The Two motor design - fully 4WD system, with a motor responsible for each pair of wheels. still requires a reducer gearbox and a differential per motor . This is Tesla Motor’s current 4WD design.
- The IWM (In Wheel Motor) - also a fully 4WD system. one motor per wheel, either hooked directly to wheel, or hooked to each wheel through a reducer gearbox. Tesla, Toyota, Mercedes and BMW have all played with the design, to name a few, but no production car uses this yet for a variety of reasons - another story altogether.
The reducer gear constitutes 8 - 10 moving parts by the same logic as the motor plus a few spacers, though this can depend on the type of reducer gear they use. Planetary is typical for High RPM electric motors, which would be a large number of moving parts, though I feel like I’ve heard they use a helical spur in Teslas.
Now, adding in a little bit of bad news - Electric motors of this power must have a liquid cooling system, sometimes multiple systems, working on the motors, the VFD electronics (Variable Frequency Drive - what controls the operating speed of the AC motors), and the batteries separately. In addition, the Motors on the Tesla cool the rotor as well as the stator, which introduces a couple union junctions to the mix that add a few more moving parts. for each system you need a separate pump, not coupled to the motor, which can add up to a dozen or so moving parts per pump (depends on the pump), plus a few for the union junctions, plus whatever valves and the like they have in there. all in all, you probably end up with + 20 - 30 parts per car for the cooling systems. so final, VERY ballpark final counts
- Single Motor 2WD, worst case - 80 - 90 moving parts
- Double Motor 4WD, Worst Case - 90–100 moving parts
- IWM 4WD, worst case - 70 - 80 Moving parts
Several hundreds of moving parts. 1000+ on higher performance motors. the biggest count savings are in the motor and gearbox, obviously. so it’s really no comparison at all. mechanically speaking, electric cars should be dramatically more reliable. electronically speaking? remains to be seen.
in general the widespread use of complex modern electronics is unprecedented in motor vehicles on such a scale so the reliability data over the long haul is really unknown.
There are many expensive components, modules and systems in electric cars each representing a potential point of failure compared to mechanical systems which is a better known entity with a demonstrable reliability history.
With that in mind, we can probably postulate that should the center LC display go bad on the Tesla, for example, or its motor controller, charging system, batteries, and its many potential points of failure in the electrical systems, each of these repairs will prove costly even if they have been reliable so far in its short vehicle history.
Of greater concern is the unknown future availability of OEM replacement parts as there will unlikely be alternate sources.
Source:
What are the most expensive parts in an electric car?
Answer (1 of 4): [A2A] Note :EV manufacturers replace whole drive unit which has higher impact on cost than battery packs. Considering the case of TESLA MODEL S . From the words of George Blankenship( Vice president at Tesla motors) Prices are as follows: 1) Cost to REPLACE a "Drive unit" is $2...
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The reason maintanance costs on an EV are lower is that external systems necessary with a combustion engine aee not necessary. High maintanance items like exhast and cooling systems are not necessary. OTOH batteries are expensive.
This of course is true regarding routine maintenance on exhaust and cooling components but as anyone who owns a computer or other electronic device is fully aware, electronics malfunction and when they do it is expensive to repair! As the articles I linked to also point out, it's not always easy to find replacement parts for EV's, let alone someone qualified and knowledgeable enough to troubleshoot and/or repair them.
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