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Matt Taibbi's latest column hits the nail on the head.

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I pay $5 per month to get all of Matt's content. You can sign up on his website for free to get some of it for free. I copied and pasted his latest in full below but I don't consider it to be stealing from him because it's like an ad for him because I'm telling you he's good and I'm not giving it all to you for free but just the occasional column. He says we need a new media system and he's right. I hope this copies and pastes well.



We Need a New Media System
If you sell culture war all day, don’t be surprised by the real-world consequences





Matt Taibbi 24 min ago









The moment a group of people stormed the Capitol building last Wednesday, news companies began the process of sorting and commoditizing information that long ago became standard in American media.

Media firms work backward. They first ask, “How does our target demographic want to understand what’s just unfolded?” Then they pick both the words and the facts they want to emphasize.

It’s why Fox News uses the term, “Pro-Trump protesters,” while New York and The Atlantic use “Insurrectionists.” It’s why conservative media today is stressing how Apple, Google, and Amazon shut down the “Free Speech” platform Parler over the weekend, while mainstream outlets are emphasizing a new round of potentially armed protests reportedly planned for January 19th or 20th.

What happened last Wednesday was the apotheosis of the Hate Inc. era, when this audience-first model became the primary means of communicating facts to the population. For a hundred reasons dating back to the mid-eighties, from the advent of the Internet to the development of the 24-hour news cycle to the end of the Fairness Doctrine and the Fox-led discovery that news can be sold as character-driven, episodic TV in the manner of soap operas, the concept of a “Just the facts” newscast designed to be consumed by everyone died out.

News companies now clean world events like whalers, using every part of the animal, funneling different facts to different consumers based upon calculations about what will bring back the biggest engagement kick. The Migrant Caravan? Fox slices off comments from a Homeland Security official describing most of the border-crossers as single adults coming for “economic reasons.” The New York Times counters by running a story about how the caravan was deployed as a political issue by a Trump White House staring at poor results in midterm elections.

Repeat this info-sifting process a few billion times and this is how we became, as none other than Mitch McConnell put it last week, a country:
Drifting apart into two separate tribes, with a separate set of facts and separate realities, with nothing in common except our hostility towards each other and mistrust for the few national institutions that we all still share.
The flaw in the system is that even the biggest news companies now operate under the assumption that at least half their potential audience isn’t listening. This leads to all sorts of problems, and the fact that the easiest way to keep your own demographic is to feed it negative stories about others is only the most obvious. On all sides, we now lean into inflammatory caricatures, because the financial incentives encourage it.

Everyone monetized Trump. The Fox wing surrendered to the Trump phenomenon from the start, abandoning its supposed fealty to “family values” from the Megyn Kelly incident on. Without a thought, Rupert Murdoch sacrificed the paper-thin veneer of pseudo-respectability Fox had always maintained up to a point (that point being the moment advertisers started to bail in horror, as they did with Glenn Beck). He reinvented Fox as a platform for Trump’s conspiratorial brand of cartoon populism, rather than let some more-Fox-than-Fox imitator like OAN sell the ads to Trump’s voters for four years.

In between its titillating quasi-porn headlines (“Lesbian Prison Gangs Waiting To Get Hands on Lindsay Lohan, Inmate Says” is one from years ago that stuck in my mind), Fox’s business model has long been based on scaring the crap out of aging Silent Majority viewers with a parade of anything-but-the-truth explanations for America’s decline. It villainized immigrants, Muslims, the new Black Panthers, environmentalists — anyone but ADM, Wal-Mart, Countrywide, JP Morgan Chase, and other sponsors of Fortress America. Donald Trump was one of the people who got hooked on Fox’s narrative.

The rival media ecosystem chose cash over truth also. It could have responded to the last election by looking harder at the tensions they didn’t see coming in Trump’s America, which might have meant a more intense examination of the problems that gave Trump his opening: the jobs that never came back after bankers and retailers decided to move them to unfree labor zones in places like China, the severe debt and addiction crises, the ridiculous contradiction of an expanding international military garrison manned by a population fast losing belief in the mission, etc., etc.

Instead, outlets like CNN and MSNBC took a Fox-like approach, downplaying issues in favor of shoving Trump’s agitating personality in the faces of audiences over and over, to the point where many people could no longer think about anything else. To juice ratings, the Trump story — which didn’t need the slightest exaggeration to be fantastic — was more or less constantly distorted.

Trump began to be described as a cause of America’s problems, rather than a symptom, and his followers, every last one, were demonized right along with him, in caricatures that tickled the urbane audiences of channels like CNN but made conservatives want to reach for something sharp. This technique was borrowed from Fox, which learned in the Bush years that you could boost ratings by selling audiences on the idea that their liberal neighbors were terrorist traitors. Such messaging worked better by far than bashing al-Qaeda, because this enemy was closer, making the hate more real.

I came into the news business convinced that the traditional “objective” style of reporting was boring, deceptive, and deserving of mockery. I used to laugh at the parade of “above the fray” columnists and stone-dull house editorials that took no position on anything and always ended, “Only one thing’s for sure: time will tell.” As a teenager I was struck by a passage in Tim Crouse’s book about the 1972 presidential campaign, The Boys in the Bus, describing the work of Hunter Thompson:
Thompson had the freedom to describe the campaign as he actually experienced it: the crummy hotels, the tedium of the press bus, the calculated lies of the press secretaries, the agony of writing about the campaign when it seemed dull and meaningless, the hopeless fatigue. When other reporters went home, their wives asked them, “What was it really like?” Thompson’s wife knew from reading his pieces.
What Rolling Stone did in giving a political reporter the freedom to write about the banalities of the system was revolutionary at the time. They also allowed their writer to be a sides-taker and a rooter, which seemed natural and appropriate because biases end up in media anyway. They were just hidden in the traditional dull “objective” format.

The problem is that the pendulum has swung so far in the opposite direction of politicized hot-taking that reporters now lack freedom in the opposite direction, i.e. the freedom to mitigate.

If you work in conservative media, you probably felt tremendous pressure all November to stay away from information suggesting Trump lost the election. If you work in the other ecosystem, you probably feel right now that even suggesting what happened last Wednesday was not a coup in the literal sense of the word (e.g. an attempt at seizing power with an actual chance of success) not only wouldn’t clear an editor, but might make you suspect in the eyes of co-workers, a potentially job-imperiling problem in this environment.

We need a new media channel, the press version of a third party, where those financial pressures to maintain audience are absent. Ideally, it would:
  • not be aligned with either Democrats or Republicans;
  • employ a Fairness Doctrine-inspired approach that discourages groupthink and requires at least occasional explorations of alternative points of view;
  • embrace a utilitarian mission stressing credibility over ratings, including operating on a distribution model that as much as possible doesn’t depend upon the indulgence of Apple, Google, and Amazon.
Innovations like Substack are great for opinionated individual voices like me, but what’s desperately needed is an institutional reporting mechanism that has credibility with the whole population. That means a channel that sees its mission as something separate from politics, or at least as separate from politics as possible.

The media used to derive its institutional power from this perception of separateness. Politicians feared investigation by the news media precisely because they knew audiences perceived them as neutral arbiters.

Now there are no major commercial outlets not firmly associated with one or the other political party. Criticism of Republicans is as baked into New York Times coverage as the lambasting of Democrats is at Fox, and politicians don’t fear them as much because they know their constituents do not consider rival media sources credible. Probably, they don’t even read them. Echo chambers have limited utility in changing minds.

Media companies need to get out of the audience-stroking business, and by extension the politics business. They’d then be more likely to be believed when making pronouncements about elections or masks or anything else, for that matter. Creating that kind of outlet also has a much better shot of restoring sanity to the country than the current strategy, which seems based on stamping out access to “wrong” information.

What we’ve been watching for four years, and what we saw explode last week, is a paradox: a political and informational system that profits from division and conflict, and uses a factory-style process to stimulate it, but professes shock and horror when real conflict happens. It’s time to admit this is a failed system. You can’t sell hatred and seriously expect it to end.
 
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It was a good read, and he touched on some Truths neither side wants to hear. When I studied Journalism, we were taught to just report "the facts". There was no room for our opinions, and they weren't even necessary in order to be good reporters. Today media doesn't appreciate facts. Neither side really wants to hear them, and when they do...then Tibbi's analysis takes over.

I'm not so sure we need a new media as much as we need a return to objective reporting of facts. Facts about a Russian disinformation dossier, facts about irrefutable evidence of a stolen election, facts about a US elected official bribing a Foreign Government, facts about our cities being burned down under the guise of "protest", facts about our Constitution being shredded for political expediency.

What today's media is missing is how to report basic facts, instead of how to spin their versions of Truth.
 
Last edited:
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I pay $5 per month to get all of Matt's content. You can sign up on his website for free to get some of it for free. I copied and pasted his latest in full below but I don't consider it to be stealing from him because it's like an ad for him because I'm telling you he's good and I'm not giving it all to you for free but just the occasional column. He says we need a new media system and he's right. I hope this copies and pastes well.



We Need a New Media System
If you sell culture war all day, don’t be surprised by the real-world consequences





Matt Taibbi 24 min ago









The moment a group of people stormed the Capitol building last Wednesday, news companies began the process of sorting and commoditizing information that long ago became standard in American media.

Media firms work backward. They first ask, “How does our target demographic want to understand what’s just unfolded?” Then they pick both the words and the facts they want to emphasize.

It’s why Fox News uses the term, “Pro-Trump protesters,” while New York and The Atlantic use “Insurrectionists.” It’s why conservative media today is stressing how Apple, Google, and Amazon shut down the “Free Speech” platform Parler over the weekend, while mainstream outlets are emphasizing a new round of potentially armed protests reportedly planned for January 19th or 20th.

What happened last Wednesday was the apotheosis of the Hate Inc. era, when this audience-first model became the primary means of communicating facts to the population. For a hundred reasons dating back to the mid-eighties, from the advent of the Internet to the development of the 24-hour news cycle to the end of the Fairness Doctrine and the Fox-led discovery that news can be sold as character-driven, episodic TV in the manner of soap operas, the concept of a “Just the facts” newscast designed to be consumed by everyone died out.

News companies now clean world events like whalers, using every part of the animal, funneling different facts to different consumers based upon calculations about what will bring back the biggest engagement kick. The Migrant Caravan? Fox slices off comments from a Homeland Security official describing most of the border-crossers as single adults coming for “economic reasons.” The New York Times counters by running a story about how the caravan was deployed as a political issue by a Trump White House staring at poor results in midterm elections.

Repeat this info-sifting process a few billion times and this is how we became, as none other than Mitch McConnell put it last week, a country:

The flaw in the system is that even the biggest news companies now operate under the assumption that at least half their potential audience isn’t listening. This leads to all sorts of problems, and the fact that the easiest way to keep your own demographic is to feed it negative stories about others is only the most obvious. On all sides, we now lean into inflammatory caricatures, because the financial incentives encourage it.

Everyone monetized Trump. The Fox wing surrendered to the Trump phenomenon from the start, abandoning its supposed fealty to “family values” from the Megyn Kelly incident on. Without a thought, Rupert Murdoch sacrificed the paper-thin veneer of pseudo-respectability Fox had always maintained up to a point (that point being the moment advertisers started to bail in horror, as they did with Glenn Beck). He reinvented Fox as a platform for Trump’s conspiratorial brand of cartoon populism, rather than let some more-Fox-than-Fox imitator like OAN sell the ads to Trump’s voters for four years.

In between its titillating quasi-porn headlines (“Lesbian Prison Gangs Waiting To Get Hands on Lindsay Lohan, Inmate Says” is one from years ago that stuck in my mind), Fox’s business model has long been based on scaring the crap out of aging Silent Majority viewers with a parade of anything-but-the-truth explanations for America’s decline. It villainized immigrants, Muslims, the new Black Panthers, environmentalists — anyone but ADM, Wal-Mart, Countrywide, JP Morgan Chase, and other sponsors of Fortress America. Donald Trump was one of the people who got hooked on Fox’s narrative.

The rival media ecosystem chose cash over truth also. It could have responded to the last election by looking harder at the tensions they didn’t see coming in Trump’s America, which might have meant a more intense examination of the problems that gave Trump his opening: the jobs that never came back after bankers and retailers decided to move them to unfree labor zones in places like China, the severe debt and addiction crises, the ridiculous contradiction of an expanding international military garrison manned by a population fast losing belief in the mission, etc., etc.

Instead, outlets like CNN and MSNBC took a Fox-like approach, downplaying issues in favor of shoving Trump’s agitating personality in the faces of audiences over and over, to the point where many people could no longer think about anything else. To juice ratings, the Trump story — which didn’t need the slightest exaggeration to be fantastic — was more or less constantly distorted.

Trump began to be described as a cause of America’s problems, rather than a symptom, and his followers, every last one, were demonized right along with him, in caricatures that tickled the urbane audiences of channels like CNN but made conservatives want to reach for something sharp. This technique was borrowed from Fox, which learned in the Bush years that you could boost ratings by selling audiences on the idea that their liberal neighbors were terrorist traitors. Such messaging worked better by far than bashing al-Qaeda, because this enemy was closer, making the hate more real.

I came into the news business convinced that the traditional “objective” style of reporting was boring, deceptive, and deserving of mockery. I used to laugh at the parade of “above the fray” columnists and stone-dull house editorials that took no position on anything and always ended, “Only one thing’s for sure: time will tell.” As a teenager I was struck by a passage in Tim Crouse’s book about the 1972 presidential campaign, The Boys in the Bus, describing the work of Hunter Thompson:

What Rolling Stone did in giving a political reporter the freedom to write about the banalities of the system was revolutionary at the time. They also allowed their writer to be a sides-taker and a rooter, which seemed natural and appropriate because biases end up in media anyway. They were just hidden in the traditional dull “objective” format.

The problem is that the pendulum has swung so far in the opposite direction of politicized hot-taking that reporters now lack freedom in the opposite direction, i.e. the freedom to mitigate.

If you work in conservative media, you probably felt tremendous pressure all November to stay away from information suggesting Trump lost the election. If you work in the other ecosystem, you probably feel right now that even suggesting what happened last Wednesday was not a coup in the literal sense of the word (e.g. an attempt at seizing power with an actual chance of success) not only wouldn’t clear an editor, but might make you suspect in the eyes of co-workers, a potentially job-imperiling problem in this environment.

We need a new media channel, the press version of a third party, where those financial pressures to maintain audience are absent. Ideally, it would:
  • not be aligned with either Democrats or Republicans;
  • employ a Fairness Doctrine-inspired approach that discourages groupthink and requires at least occasional explorations of alternative points of view;
  • embrace a utilitarian mission stressing credibility over ratings, including operating on a distribution model that as much as possible doesn’t depend upon the indulgence of Apple, Google, and Amazon.
Innovations like Substack are great for opinionated individual voices like me, but what’s desperately needed is an institutional reporting mechanism that has credibility with the whole population. That means a channel that sees its mission as something separate from politics, or at least as separate from politics as possible.

The media used to derive its institutional power from this perception of separateness. Politicians feared investigation by the news media precisely because they knew audiences perceived them as neutral arbiters.

Now there are no major commercial outlets not firmly associated with one or the other political party. Criticism of Republicans is as baked into New York Times coverage as the lambasting of Democrats is at Fox, and politicians don’t fear them as much because they know their constituents do not consider rival media sources credible. Probably, they don’t even read them. Echo chambers have limited utility in changing minds.

Media companies need to get out of the audience-stroking business, and by extension the politics business. They’d then be more likely to be believed when making pronouncements about elections or masks or anything else, for that matter. Creating that kind of outlet also has a much better shot of restoring sanity to the country than the current strategy, which seems based on stamping out access to “wrong” information.

What we’ve been watching for four years, and what we saw explode last week, is a paradox: a political and informational system that profits from division and conflict, and uses a factory-style process to stimulate it, but professes shock and horror when real conflict happens. It’s time to admit this is a failed system. You can’t sell hatred and seriously expect it to end.
Great read.
 
I pay $5 per month to get all of Matt's content. You can sign up on his website for free to get some of it for free. I copied and pasted his latest in full below but I don't consider it to be stealing from him because it's like an ad for him because I'm telling you he's good and I'm not giving it all to you for free but just the occasional column. He says we need a new media system and he's right. I hope this copies and pastes well.



We Need a New Media System
If you sell culture war all day, don’t be surprised by the real-world consequences





Matt Taibbi 24 min ago









The moment a group of people stormed the Capitol building last Wednesday, news companies began the process of sorting and commoditizing information that long ago became standard in American media.

Media firms work backward. They first ask, “How does our target demographic want to understand what’s just unfolded?” Then they pick both the words and the facts they want to emphasize.

It’s why Fox News uses the term, “Pro-Trump protesters,” while New York and The Atlantic use “Insurrectionists.” It’s why conservative media today is stressing how Apple, Google, and Amazon shut down the “Free Speech” platform Parler over the weekend, while mainstream outlets are emphasizing a new round of potentially armed protests reportedly planned for January 19th or 20th.

What happened last Wednesday was the apotheosis of the Hate Inc. era, when this audience-first model became the primary means of communicating facts to the population. For a hundred reasons dating back to the mid-eighties, from the advent of the Internet to the development of the 24-hour news cycle to the end of the Fairness Doctrine and the Fox-led discovery that news can be sold as character-driven, episodic TV in the manner of soap operas, the concept of a “Just the facts” newscast designed to be consumed by everyone died out.

News companies now clean world events like whalers, using every part of the animal, funneling different facts to different consumers based upon calculations about what will bring back the biggest engagement kick. The Migrant Caravan? Fox slices off comments from a Homeland Security official describing most of the border-crossers as single adults coming for “economic reasons.” The New York Times counters by running a story about how the caravan was deployed as a political issue by a Trump White House staring at poor results in midterm elections.

Repeat this info-sifting process a few billion times and this is how we became, as none other than Mitch McConnell put it last week, a country:

The flaw in the system is that even the biggest news companies now operate under the assumption that at least half their potential audience isn’t listening. This leads to all sorts of problems, and the fact that the easiest way to keep your own demographic is to feed it negative stories about others is only the most obvious. On all sides, we now lean into inflammatory caricatures, because the financial incentives encourage it.

Everyone monetized Trump. The Fox wing surrendered to the Trump phenomenon from the start, abandoning its supposed fealty to “family values” from the Megyn Kelly incident on. Without a thought, Rupert Murdoch sacrificed the paper-thin veneer of pseudo-respectability Fox had always maintained up to a point (that point being the moment advertisers started to bail in horror, as they did with Glenn Beck). He reinvented Fox as a platform for Trump’s conspiratorial brand of cartoon populism, rather than let some more-Fox-than-Fox imitator like OAN sell the ads to Trump’s voters for four years.

In between its titillating quasi-porn headlines (“Lesbian Prison Gangs Waiting To Get Hands on Lindsay Lohan, Inmate Says” is one from years ago that stuck in my mind), Fox’s business model has long been based on scaring the crap out of aging Silent Majority viewers with a parade of anything-but-the-truth explanations for America’s decline. It villainized immigrants, Muslims, the new Black Panthers, environmentalists — anyone but ADM, Wal-Mart, Countrywide, JP Morgan Chase, and other sponsors of Fortress America. Donald Trump was one of the people who got hooked on Fox’s narrative.

The rival media ecosystem chose cash over truth also. It could have responded to the last election by looking harder at the tensions they didn’t see coming in Trump’s America, which might have meant a more intense examination of the problems that gave Trump his opening: the jobs that never came back after bankers and retailers decided to move them to unfree labor zones in places like China, the severe debt and addiction crises, the ridiculous contradiction of an expanding international military garrison manned by a population fast losing belief in the mission, etc., etc.

Instead, outlets like CNN and MSNBC took a Fox-like approach, downplaying issues in favor of shoving Trump’s agitating personality in the faces of audiences over and over, to the point where many people could no longer think about anything else. To juice ratings, the Trump story — which didn’t need the slightest exaggeration to be fantastic — was more or less constantly distorted.

Trump began to be described as a cause of America’s problems, rather than a symptom, and his followers, every last one, were demonized right along with him, in caricatures that tickled the urbane audiences of channels like CNN but made conservatives want to reach for something sharp. This technique was borrowed from Fox, which learned in the Bush years that you could boost ratings by selling audiences on the idea that their liberal neighbors were terrorist traitors. Such messaging worked better by far than bashing al-Qaeda, because this enemy was closer, making the hate more real.

I came into the news business convinced that the traditional “objective” style of reporting was boring, deceptive, and deserving of mockery. I used to laugh at the parade of “above the fray” columnists and stone-dull house editorials that took no position on anything and always ended, “Only one thing’s for sure: time will tell.” As a teenager I was struck by a passage in Tim Crouse’s book about the 1972 presidential campaign, The Boys in the Bus, describing the work of Hunter Thompson:

What Rolling Stone did in giving a political reporter the freedom to write about the banalities of the system was revolutionary at the time. They also allowed their writer to be a sides-taker and a rooter, which seemed natural and appropriate because biases end up in media anyway. They were just hidden in the traditional dull “objective” format.

The problem is that the pendulum has swung so far in the opposite direction of politicized hot-taking that reporters now lack freedom in the opposite direction, i.e. the freedom to mitigate.

If you work in conservative media, you probably felt tremendous pressure all November to stay away from information suggesting Trump lost the election. If you work in the other ecosystem, you probably feel right now that even suggesting what happened last Wednesday was not a coup in the literal sense of the word (e.g. an attempt at seizing power with an actual chance of success) not only wouldn’t clear an editor, but might make you suspect in the eyes of co-workers, a potentially job-imperiling problem in this environment.

We need a new media channel, the press version of a third party, where those financial pressures to maintain audience are absent. Ideally, it would:
  • not be aligned with either Democrats or Republicans;
  • employ a Fairness Doctrine-inspired approach that discourages groupthink and requires at least occasional explorations of alternative points of view;
  • embrace a utilitarian mission stressing credibility over ratings, including operating on a distribution model that as much as possible doesn’t depend upon the indulgence of Apple, Google, and Amazon.
Innovations like Substack are great for opinionated individual voices like me, but what’s desperately needed is an institutional reporting mechanism that has credibility with the whole population. That means a channel that sees its mission as something separate from politics, or at least as separate from politics as possible.

The media used to derive its institutional power from this perception of separateness. Politicians feared investigation by the news media precisely because they knew audiences perceived them as neutral arbiters.

Now there are no major commercial outlets not firmly associated with one or the other political party. Criticism of Republicans is as baked into New York Times coverage as the lambasting of Democrats is at Fox, and politicians don’t fear them as much because they know their constituents do not consider rival media sources credible. Probably, they don’t even read them. Echo chambers have limited utility in changing minds.

Media companies need to get out of the audience-stroking business, and by extension the politics business. They’d then be more likely to be believed when making pronouncements about elections or masks or anything else, for that matter. Creating that kind of outlet also has a much better shot of restoring sanity to the country than the current strategy, which seems based on stamping out access to “wrong” information.

What we’ve been watching for four years, and what we saw explode last week, is a paradox: a political and informational system that profits from division and conflict, and uses a factory-style process to stimulate it, but professes shock and horror when real conflict happens. It’s time to admit this is a failed system. You can’t sell hatred and seriously expect it to end.
I need to reread...thanks for the copy and paste, but as of now I don’t see one thing wrong with that post.
 
My buddy's quote is this.
"They use idealism to sell Pampers"

He has always had a point.
 
It was a good read, and he touched on some Truths neither side wants to hear. When I studied Journalism, we were taught to just report "the facts". There was no room for our opinions, and they weren't even necessary in order to be good reporters. Today media doesn't appreciate facts. Neither side really wants to hear them, and when they do...then Tibbi's analysis takes over.

I'm not so sure we need a new media as much as we need a return to objective reporting of facts. Facts about a Russian disinformation dossier, facts about irrefutable evidence of a stolen election, facts about a US elected official bribing a Foreign Government, facts about our cities being burned down under the guise of "protest", facts about our Constitution being shredded for political expediency.

What today's media is missing is how to report basic facts, instead of how to spin their versions of the Truth.
And yet you can’t help yourself.
 
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And yet you can’t help yourself.

I posted a link recently with 10 irrefutable facts that this election was stolen. In case you didn't see it re-posting it here. Feel free to offer the facts that refute these. You skipped right over this when I initially posted it.

You won't refute any of them now because they are irrefutable facts. Here 'ya go...try again to avoid these.


@NYC_Eer ...just so you know, I'm not "picking" on you per se or singling you out...actually none of you on the Left can refute one item on my list of "10 irrefutable facts" proving Joe Biden cheated.

You just chose to ignore the list....however no one has factually rebutted one item on it.

Just FYI.....


No one can factually rebut anything on this list.....NO ONE
giphy.gif
 
Hey @NYC_Eer , when you find verified facts that refute any of the items on my list, tag me OK? I'm anxious to see what you factually offer in refutation of what I posted? If you don't tag me, I'll know you didn't find anything. Going to watch the College football National Championship game, but I'll set my e-mail to flag me when you tag me that you were able to come up with something OK? [thumbsup]
 
I posted a link recently with 10 irrefutable facts that this election was stolen. In case you didn't see it re-posting it here. Feel free to offer the facts that refute these. You skipped right over this when I initially posted it.

You won't refute any of them now because they are irrefutable facts. Here 'ya go...try again to avoid these.
Not what we’re discussing. Hijack another thread.
 
Not what we’re discussing. Hijack another thread.

I was suggesting a need to return to fact based reporting. I'm offering this as an example of what's missing. You just make sure you tag me when you refute something on that list. I'll be waiting.
 
I was suggesting a need to return to fact based reporting. I'm offering this as an example of what's missing. You just make sure you tag me when you refute something on that list. I'll be waiting.
I wouldn’t hold your breath.
 
I pay $5 per month to get all of Matt's content. You can sign up on his website for free to get some of it for free. I copied and pasted his latest in full below but I don't consider it to be stealing from him because it's like an ad for him because I'm telling you he's good and I'm not giving it all to you for free but just the occasional column. He says we need a new media system and he's right. I hope this copies and pastes well.



We Need a New Media System
If you sell culture war all day, don’t be surprised by the real-world consequences





Matt Taibbi 24 min ago









The moment a group of people stormed the Capitol building last Wednesday, news companies began the process of sorting and commoditizing information that long ago became standard in American media.

Media firms work backward. They first ask, “How does our target demographic want to understand what’s just unfolded?” Then they pick both the words and the facts they want to emphasize.

It’s why Fox News uses the term, “Pro-Trump protesters,” while New York and The Atlantic use “Insurrectionists.” It’s why conservative media today is stressing how Apple, Google, and Amazon shut down the “Free Speech” platform Parler over the weekend, while mainstream outlets are emphasizing a new round of potentially armed protests reportedly planned for January 19th or 20th.

What happened last Wednesday was the apotheosis of the Hate Inc. era, when this audience-first model became the primary means of communicating facts to the population. For a hundred reasons dating back to the mid-eighties, from the advent of the Internet to the development of the 24-hour news cycle to the end of the Fairness Doctrine and the Fox-led discovery that news can be sold as character-driven, episodic TV in the manner of soap operas, the concept of a “Just the facts” newscast designed to be consumed by everyone died out.

News companies now clean world events like whalers, using every part of the animal, funneling different facts to different consumers based upon calculations about what will bring back the biggest engagement kick. The Migrant Caravan? Fox slices off comments from a Homeland Security official describing most of the border-crossers as single adults coming for “economic reasons.” The New York Times counters by running a story about how the caravan was deployed as a political issue by a Trump White House staring at poor results in midterm elections.

Repeat this info-sifting process a few billion times and this is how we became, as none other than Mitch McConnell put it last week, a country:

The flaw in the system is that even the biggest news companies now operate under the assumption that at least half their potential audience isn’t listening. This leads to all sorts of problems, and the fact that the easiest way to keep your own demographic is to feed it negative stories about others is only the most obvious. On all sides, we now lean into inflammatory caricatures, because the financial incentives encourage it.

Everyone monetized Trump. The Fox wing surrendered to the Trump phenomenon from the start, abandoning its supposed fealty to “family values” from the Megyn Kelly incident on. Without a thought, Rupert Murdoch sacrificed the paper-thin veneer of pseudo-respectability Fox had always maintained up to a point (that point being the moment advertisers started to bail in horror, as they did with Glenn Beck). He reinvented Fox as a platform for Trump’s conspiratorial brand of cartoon populism, rather than let some more-Fox-than-Fox imitator like OAN sell the ads to Trump’s voters for four years.

In between its titillating quasi-porn headlines (“Lesbian Prison Gangs Waiting To Get Hands on Lindsay Lohan, Inmate Says” is one from years ago that stuck in my mind), Fox’s business model has long been based on scaring the crap out of aging Silent Majority viewers with a parade of anything-but-the-truth explanations for America’s decline. It villainized immigrants, Muslims, the new Black Panthers, environmentalists — anyone but ADM, Wal-Mart, Countrywide, JP Morgan Chase, and other sponsors of Fortress America. Donald Trump was one of the people who got hooked on Fox’s narrative.

The rival media ecosystem chose cash over truth also. It could have responded to the last election by looking harder at the tensions they didn’t see coming in Trump’s America, which might have meant a more intense examination of the problems that gave Trump his opening: the jobs that never came back after bankers and retailers decided to move them to unfree labor zones in places like China, the severe debt and addiction crises, the ridiculous contradiction of an expanding international military garrison manned by a population fast losing belief in the mission, etc., etc.

Instead, outlets like CNN and MSNBC took a Fox-like approach, downplaying issues in favor of shoving Trump’s agitating personality in the faces of audiences over and over, to the point where many people could no longer think about anything else. To juice ratings, the Trump story — which didn’t need the slightest exaggeration to be fantastic — was more or less constantly distorted.

Trump began to be described as a cause of America’s problems, rather than a symptom, and his followers, every last one, were demonized right along with him, in caricatures that tickled the urbane audiences of channels like CNN but made conservatives want to reach for something sharp. This technique was borrowed from Fox, which learned in the Bush years that you could boost ratings by selling audiences on the idea that their liberal neighbors were terrorist traitors. Such messaging worked better by far than bashing al-Qaeda, because this enemy was closer, making the hate more real.

I came into the news business convinced that the traditional “objective” style of reporting was boring, deceptive, and deserving of mockery. I used to laugh at the parade of “above the fray” columnists and stone-dull house editorials that took no position on anything and always ended, “Only one thing’s for sure: time will tell.” As a teenager I was struck by a passage in Tim Crouse’s book about the 1972 presidential campaign, The Boys in the Bus, describing the work of Hunter Thompson:

What Rolling Stone did in giving a political reporter the freedom to write about the banalities of the system was revolutionary at the time. They also allowed their writer to be a sides-taker and a rooter, which seemed natural and appropriate because biases end up in media anyway. They were just hidden in the traditional dull “objective” format.

The problem is that the pendulum has swung so far in the opposite direction of politicized hot-taking that reporters now lack freedom in the opposite direction, i.e. the freedom to mitigate.

If you work in conservative media, you probably felt tremendous pressure all November to stay away from information suggesting Trump lost the election. If you work in the other ecosystem, you probably feel right now that even suggesting what happened last Wednesday was not a coup in the literal sense of the word (e.g. an attempt at seizing power with an actual chance of success) not only wouldn’t clear an editor, but might make you suspect in the eyes of co-workers, a potentially job-imperiling problem in this environment.

We need a new media channel, the press version of a third party, where those financial pressures to maintain audience are absent. Ideally, it would:
  • not be aligned with either Democrats or Republicans;
  • employ a Fairness Doctrine-inspired approach that discourages groupthink and requires at least occasional explorations of alternative points of view;
  • embrace a utilitarian mission stressing credibility over ratings, including operating on a distribution model that as much as possible doesn’t depend upon the indulgence of Apple, Google, and Amazon.
Innovations like Substack are great for opinionated individual voices like me, but what’s desperately needed is an institutional reporting mechanism that has credibility with the whole population. That means a channel that sees its mission as something separate from politics, or at least as separate from politics as possible.

The media used to derive its institutional power from this perception of separateness. Politicians feared investigation by the news media precisely because they knew audiences perceived them as neutral arbiters.

Now there are no major commercial outlets not firmly associated with one or the other political party. Criticism of Republicans is as baked into New York Times coverage as the lambasting of Democrats is at Fox, and politicians don’t fear them as much because they know their constituents do not consider rival media sources credible. Probably, they don’t even read them. Echo chambers have limited utility in changing minds.

Media companies need to get out of the audience-stroking business, and by extension the politics business. They’d then be more likely to be believed when making pronouncements about elections or masks or anything else, for that matter. Creating that kind of outlet also has a much better shot of restoring sanity to the country than the current strategy, which seems based on stamping out access to “wrong” information.

What we’ve been watching for four years, and what we saw explode last week, is a paradox: a political and informational system that profits from division and conflict, and uses a factory-style process to stimulate it, but professes shock and horror when real conflict happens. It’s time to admit this is a failed system. You can’t sell hatred and seriously expect it to end.
Damn good post.

You have become one of the best posters on this board. I used to give you so much shit and now I love to read your thoughts.
 
Damn good post.

You have become one of the best posters on this board. I used to give you so much shit and now I love to read your thoughts.
Agreed. I don’t know what changed, but over the last 4 years, he’s definitely become a very reasonable and quality poster.
 
Op2 has not abandoned his principles on the Left, but he at least is critical of the furthest extremes. He does open up interesting discussion without insulting other posters and that's when the board is worth reading.
 
trouble maker....as usual

Never thought the day would come when I'd get fed up with the Left Snow my Man, but I'm afraid that day has come. I've literally just had enough of 'em. I'm flat worn out. Exasperated. Throwin' my hands up like......
giphy.gif
 
I mean it @Snow Sled Baby ...I'm worn out because almost any Leftist I ask to explain themselves it seems like all I'm doing is goin'......
giphy.gif

tryin' to get some reasonable answer to their general "loopiness"!
 
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Never thought the day would come when I'd get fed up with the Left Snow my Man, but I'm afraid that day has come. I've literally just had enough of 'em. I'm flat worn out. Exasperated. Throwin' my hands up like......
giphy.gif
me too...they have no idea....none...stay in touch my friend
 
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me too...they have no idea....none...stay in touch my friend

I'm just trusting these words in the "good book" Snow my Man....
Galatians 6:7 - Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

I just hope I'm not around or forced to live through what they're asking for today.
 
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I'm just trusting these words in the "good book" Snow my Man....
Galatians 6:7 - Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

I just hope I'm not around and forced to live through what they're asking for today.

MAGA and Trump are certainly reaping what they have sowed.....
 
Keep this up. I love it when people prove to everyone they are in fact just as dumb as I have told them they are.

Dave, I don’t know you, I don’t know what you look like or anything about you, other than what you post on this board. Which in my opinion, is very short, unintelligent remarks based on others comments or opinions. You have very limited thought process and language ability.......I know you are holding on to the other dipshits on this board........but the one thing I can promise you, I am a better man, a more successful man, a more respected and intelligent man than you can ever hope to be.....I’m sure your McDowell County wife would ultimately agree....

You are MAGA, thank god you live in WVA, at least you won’t have to hide as much.....you pathetic piece of 💩
 
MAGA and Trump are certainly reaping what they have sowed.....

Guess it was all that obvious "cheating" by colluding with the Russians and that "fake" dossier?

So we figured we'd go 'em one better by cheatin' with our "fake ballots" and dead voters
iu
 
Dave, I don’t know you, I don’t know what you look like or anything about you, other than what you post on this board. Which in my opinion, is very short, unintelligent remarks based on others comments or opinions. You have very limited thought process and language ability.......I know you are holding on to the other dipshits on this board........but the one thing I can promise you, I am a better man, a more successful man, a more respected and intelligent man than you can ever hope to be.....I’m sure your McDowell County wife would ultimately agree....

You are MAGA, thank god you live in WVA, at least you won’t have to hide as much.....you pathetic piece of 💩
does your hand ever get sore from patting yourself on the back?.......and if being you means one is successful then I will choose to be unsuccessful.......I'd like to buy you for what you are worth and sell you for what you think you are worth.......eabboswhan
 
Get your fat ugly wife back into your beat up truck and go count signs and Trump flags again, you’re still behind.......
you are a pussy sheeple hiding behind a keyboard. just like most of your leftist compadres.......you would not have the guts to say that to my wife to her face because she would gut you like the piece of shit that you are......so go to the rite aid, buy your KY jelly and go back to your boyfriend
 
you are a pussy sheeple hiding behind a keyboard. just like most of your leftist compadres.......you would not have the guts to say that to my wife to her face because she would gut you like the piece of shit that you are......so go to the rite aid, buy your KY jelly and go back to your boyfriend

typical uneducated, dirty MAGA.....threatening murder like the other traitors.....
 
Let's dissect this erudite, grandiloquent, aristocratic, ungrammatical soliloquy of extemporaneous thought disguised as intelligence shall we?

Dave, I don’t know you, I don’t know what you look like or anything about you, other than what you post on this board.
Of course this applies to anyone on this board posting to anyone else since none of us can "see" who we post with and unless we have established personal relationships with the posters we are communicating, we are all essentially 'anonymous' to one another. So what was the point in making this claim? Exclusivity here is not only NOT established, it isn't needed.

Which in my opinion, is very short, unintelligent remarks based on others comments or opinions
This is not a complete sentence. Following the initial declaratory statement which established the subject, this sentence lacks second reference to the first subject, and is without a proper noun delineating its subject of first reference. Poor grammar even a third grader should avoid. It also lacks a possessive ' for the proper noun (other) mentioned as a second reference to the primary subject.

You have very limited thought process and language ability.......
This is laughably amusing given the obvious grammatical and sentence structure deficiencies identified in the second reference of the initially stated subject matter above.

I know you are holding on to the other dipshits on this board
Again, this display of rudimentary invective only amplifies the dearth of vocabularic mastery said subject exemplifies through this pedestrian attempt demonstrating superior linguistic intellect.

the one thing I can promise you, I am a better man, a more successful man, a more respected and intelligent man than you can ever hope to be
This is an incongruity. Since a "promise" was neither requested nor required from the poster this statement is superfluous. Furthermore, it is virtually impossible for the OP to validate this promise since the poster has no objective alternatives with which to properly demonstrate nor authenticate the qualities offered as proof of his superior capabilities. It is either a fabrication of the poster's imagination, or a gross distortion of quantifiable reality.

I’m sure your McDowell County wife would ultimately agree....
Once again, the incongruity of this statement is obvious and exists in direct contradiction of the OP's original assertion: "I don’t know you, I don’t know what you look like or anything about you". Here the poster admits to his lack of any tangible knowledge about the object of his derision, yet here he also insists despite that lack of vital information which invariably would include the subject's spouse, she can validate his specious yet unproven claims of both his physical as well as mental acuity over her known spouse? This obviously is not only a prevarication, but delusional hyperbole.

You are MAGA, thank god you live in WVA,
This statement on its face is both disingenuous as well as inaccurate. The OP admits to knowing "nothing" about the particulars of the target of his ridicule. Yet, here he assumes not only the target's political affiliations (MAGA), but he uses a mere campaign slogan to denigrate the subject's chosen place of domicile as if "making America great" does not apply to the geographical location where the target ostensibly resides. Additionally, the OP's Religious devotions have not been previously established, so thanking (g)od carries no Theological significance germane to the existing subject matter the OP is attempting to utilize as an allegory supporting his false appreciation for the target's preferred choice of residence, which by the OP's own admission...he has no definitive knowledge of. The Statement totally contradicts the assertions made by the OP in the opening sentence, thereby making the entire diatribe essentially pointless.

at least you won’t have to hide as much
Once again the point of this backhanded reply is lost on the objective reader. Who is suggesting the target is "hiding"? For what purpose? From whom? It makes no sense either in context, or extrapolating some alternative supposition the OP was attempting to correlate in this disjointed diatribe.

you pathetic piece of 💩
Let this glittering example of eloquence enunciated as prose serve as the crowning jewel of accomplishment revealing the OP's "superior" linguistic algorithm of mellifluous colloquial English disguised as profanity.

You have very limited thought process and language ability
The irony of this statement in light of the demonstrated derogatory vernacular in the above example is not lost on even the most densely illiterate reader.

So there you have it. A total analysis as well as demonstration of a completely useless blow hard posing as a sophisticated intellect to be revered, admired, and even emulated by all. [eyeroll]

3494.jpg
It ain't braggin' if 'you can do it.
 
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Let's dissect this erudite, grandiloquent, aristocratic, ungrammatical soliloquy of extemporaneous thought disguised as intelligence shall we?


Of course this applies to anyone on this board posting to anyone else since none of us can "see" who we post with and unless we have established personal relationships with the posters we are communicating, we are all essentially 'anonymous' to one another. So what was the point in making this claim? Exclusivity here is not only NOT established, it isn't needed.


This is not a complete sentence. Following the initial declaratory statement which established the subject, this sentence lacks second reference to the first subject, and is without a proper noun delineating its subject of first reference. Poor grammar even a third grader should avoid. It also lacks a possessive ' for the proper noun (other) mentioned as a second reference to the primary subject.


This is laughably amusing given the obvious grammatical and sentence structure deficiencies identified in the second reference of the initially stated subject matter above.


Again, this display of rudimentary invective only amplifies the dearth of vocabularic mastery said subject exemplifies through this pedestrian attempt demonstrating superior linguistic intellect.


This is an incongruity. Since a "promise" was neither requested nor required from the poster this statement is superfluous. Furthermore, it is virtually impossible for the OP to validate this promise since the poster has no objective alternatives with which to properly demonstrate nor authenticate the objective qualities offered as proof of his superior capabilities. It is either a fabrication of the poster's imagination, or a gross distortion of quantifiable reality.


Once again, the incongruity of this statement is obvious and exists in direct contradiction of the OP's original assertion: "I don’t know you, I don’t know what you look like or anything about you". Here the poster admits to his lack of any tangible knowledge about the object of his derision, yet here he also admits despite that lack of vital information which invariably would include the subject's spouse, she can validate his specious yet unproven claims of both his physical as well as mental accomplishment over her known spouse? This obviously is not only a prevarication, but delusional hyperbole.


This statement on its face is both disingenuous as well as inaccurate. The OP admits to knowing "nothing" about the particulars of the target of his ridicule. Yet, here he assumes not only the target's political affiliations (MAGA), but he uses a mere campaign slogan to denigrate the subject's chosen place of domicile as if "making America great" does not apply to the geographical location where the target ostensibly resides. Additionally, the OP's Religious devotions have not been previously established, so thanking (g)od carries no Theological significance germane to the existing subject matter the OP is attempting to utilize as an allegory supporting his false appreciation for the target's preferred choice of residence, which by the OP's own admission...he has no definitive knowledge of. The Statement totally contradicts the assertions made by the OP in the opening sentence, thereby making the entire diatribe essentially pointless.


Once again the point of this backhanded reply is lost on the objective reader. Who is suggesting the target is "hiding"? For what purpose? From whom? It makes no sense either in context, or extrapolating some alternative supposition the OP was attempting to correlate in this disjointed diatribe.


Let this glittering example of eloquence enunciated as prose serve as the crowning jewel of accomplishment revealing the OP's "superior" linguistic algorithm of mellifluous colloquial English disguised as profanity.


The irony of this statement in light of the demonstrated derogatory vernacular in the above example is not lost on even the most densely illiterate reader.

So there you have it. A total analysis as well as demonstration of a completely useless blow hard posing as a sophisticated intellect to be revered, admired, and even emulated by all. [eyeroll]

3494.jpg
It ain't braggin' if 'you can do it.

🤣
 
Dave, I don’t know you, I don’t know what you look like or anything about you, other than what you post on this board. Which in my opinion, is very short, unintelligent remarks based on others comments or opinions. You have very limited thought process and language ability.......I know you are holding on to the other dipshits on this board........but the one thing I can promise you, I am a better man, a more successful man, a more respected and intelligent man than you can ever hope to be.....I’m sure your McDowell County wife would ultimately agree....

You are MAGA, thank god you live in WVA, at least you won’t have to hide as much.....you pathetic piece of 💩
You should have stopped at you dont know me. Its not my fault men with a tiny penis have to talk a big game. Its your life.
 
You needed proof?
What kind of person brags about their language ability, expansive thought process, intellect, garnered respect and success on a message board while telling someone else they need acceptance of people on a message board? Its tough to figure out.
 
What kind of person brags about their language ability, expansive thought process, intellect, garnered respect and success on a message board while telling someone else they need acceptance of people on a message board? Its tough to figure out.

I'll answer that with some wise advice my late Grandfather always told me about "braggarts" Dave my Man.

Grandpa used to tell me "Son whenever 'ya hear somebody just a boastin' n stickin' their chest out braggin' tryin' to make like they sumthin' they ain't...just remembuh dis: it's the empty can that make da most noise"!

Those 'ol codgers could run it Dave. So true when it comes to dedhoops.
 
I'll answer that with some wise advice my late Grandfather always told me about "braggarts" Dave my Man.

Grandpa used to tell me "Son whenever 'ya hear somebody just a boastin' n stickin' their chest out braggin' tryin' to make like they sumthin' they ain't...just remembuh dis: it's the empty can that make da most noise"!

Those 'ol codgers could run it Dave. So true when it comes to dedhoops.
Grandpas are smart and shit.
 
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