Lyons standing strong
- Thread starter wvpaper
- Start date
Lyons is standing on one leg while holding the railing with his left hand on a descending staircase.
I would think what Dana is doing is not a bluff. I remember very few times that I have felt better about what WVU is doing , that's across the board. The glass is a lot better than 1/2 full and that includes the football program. Dana may go after this season. But I bet , if he does, it's of his own volition.
"I would think what Dana is doing is not a bluff"...now what does that mean?. Coaches come. Coaches go. Good, bad or in between, in the end, coaches are only employees of the University and the University survives and thrives on. This whole thing is getting funny. DH does not hold the University by any definition of leverage. In the end someone else will step forward and be the new golden boy of WVU football. DH will get older and fade into the sunset.
Do many posting inhere not want this FB program to prosper and become stronger with the passing years? Is there a purpose and positive outcome from vicious attacks on, in my opinion, a pretty decent coaching staff (and that includes the HC)? Keep it up and then wallow in the misery we will be seeing when we fail to recruit because kids want a stable coaching situation and we are going to lose our outstanding recruiters (maybe sooner than we replace the HC because of the decisions and declarations from his boss). I hate to consider languishing near the bottom of the Big XII for a number of years as we try again to rebuild after starting over. Firing a HC does not infer that prime, super candidates are breaking down the door to become our next head manx. Word of mouth within the coaching fraternity has got to be negative toward Lyons and his approach to running a big time program. He has poisoned the water around him and few large fish in whom he might be interested will return that interest because of his lack of real managerial skills.
After Dana told Lyons to go pound salt, Lyons stood strong...in the corner, facing the wall...in the fetal position.
The OP didn't even know when Dana's contract expired, until I educated him a few hours ago.
The OP didn't even know when Dana's contract expired, until I educated him a few hours ago.
Winning solves everything. What will not help Coach Holgrosen is another season going 4-5 in conference play. Overall Holgrosen has been average IMO.
Not really. Most posters on here do want WVU to prosper, they just don't see it coming from this current head coach. Your opinion may be that this is a pretty decent coaching staff that will eventually be able to compete for a Big XII championship, however I'd argue that Dana has not given much reason to think big things are in store for WVU. Not saying it can't happen, just saying that it is unlikely. For every Bill Belichick type coach (didn't do great and was ousted from Cleveland before his Patriots gig), there are at least 10 Wannstedts who suck no matter how much experience or resources are given to them.
First, I don't think this recruiting argument is a big a factor as many make it out to be. Sure it has an effect, but just smiling and acting like everything is okay when ticket sales are down and fans are grumbling is not going to go unnoticed by recruits. Recruits, or at least the opposing coaches, will make these kids aware that DH has 4 not so impressive seasons under his belt and he'll either get the boot if things don't improve or the kid will be going to a perpetual "also ran" team. Second, even if it were true, some of us would argue that DH's track record is more likely to have WVU continue to be a 6-7 regular season win team than ascend to a higher level and therefore would rather take the lumps now than spend 3 years confirming DH isn't able to get over the hump.
Would you rather languish for 3-4 years now in hopes of building a better future or do it 3 years from now if Dana proves he cannot do much better than the last 4 seasons? I mentioned this above, but some of us believe that Dana will never, or too rarely at best, take WVU to prosperity and it is not a baseless opinion. Also, a good HC would not have us languishing for "a number of year", it'd be 2-4 with reasons for optimism sprinkled in along the way (like Nehlen and RRod did).
No one is saying that firing your current HC will make great, proven coaches come knocking down your door. Someone had to give Urban Meyer his first shot when he was upcoming. Brian Kelly as well. Maybe the argument is that if a big, proven commodity can be lured here then great ... but if not, an unknown risk is better than just staying in the current rut you don't want to be in.
This is just your subjective opinion. I don't see how what Lyons is doing is negative. Lyons is discussing an extension with the current head coach. A head coach that does not have a spectacular resume. Negotiations were halted because the two parties could not come to terms. Are you suggesting that a "good" AD would just hand an even more lucrative contract to a coach that both the AD and at least half the fan base is not confident in to be a long term solution?
I understand that you think the current coaching staff has what it takes to get WVU to a better place than it has been over the last 4 seasons. Just the tone of your post seems like you think this opinion is so incredibly obvious that the only one's to disagree must not want prosperity. No, they just haven't seen enough from the last 4 seasons to instill confidence that your "pretty decent" coaching staff will ever make WVU more than a every generation flash in the pan.
Grandpa needs his foot rest on his wheelchair. Low level pill pusher
Last edited:
Do you know anything about the medical industry? Its pretty clear you don't know anything about management. Anyone who would come on a message board telling people there personal business is stupid But that should be expected if you walk around with a make believe light saber that is colored Red
Why don't you go make that 7 figure donation so you can tell Lyons how to do his job. Show him the power of the dark side
Last edited:
Actually no, if DH is not Lyons man, (which apparently he is not) he should have just fired him and allow the program to move on. Now we have a lame duck coach and the program will once again be hurt in recruiting.
how many times does this need to be said, WVU did not have the money to buy Dana out. Well, it did, but they had to hire Rich. Again, if Clements and Luck would have given Dana a contact like every other coach in America which is part of the contract would be guaranteed ($2M) and the rest a sliding scale incentive package($1M) based then we would not be in this spot.
It's also worth mentioning Dana won 8 games last year. IMO, you don't fire a coach after his best season.
I don't think Lyons was going to clean house until after next season anyways. Why he decided to bring this mess public, I just can't understand.
Well firing him would have cost 8 million and then you would have had to pay another 7-8m to hire a new staff. There where allot of coaching vacancies this year. If your going to fire somebody and dish out all that money then you better have someone who you feel strongly about in their ability to produce. I don't want to fire DH to hire DH. Hiring the wrong replacement sets the program back further. If DH is not Lyons man which i agree it appears that way then he has plenty of time to research what he feels would be a suitable replacement
I understand the cost, but WVU is playing with and making Big Boy money. WVU can't afford to lose good coaches and have down years in recruiting because of uncertainty.
So what happens next year?
- Dana wins less than 8 games he is gone
- Dana wins more than 8 games he probably gets another P5 job and WVU looses a coach that was building a program in one of the top 2 football conferences
- What happens if he wins 8 games? Does Lyons keep the program in Limbo again?
The separation money goes down by half next year, but it's still a good chunk. I wouldn't be surprised if that's still an issue for WVU.
So what, have him play out another year with no extension? My opinion, Lyons already handled this poorly, going another year would beyond stupid. I believe Lyons has failed and is failing WVU football
That's my point. This could get really messy next year. Good season or bad, WVU doesn't have much hand.
WVU's best option, imo, is that another school comes around and offers Dana a HC position. Dana would probably accept, and WVU would be off the hook for the remaining cash. That's the cleanest scenario.
As a smart person onct said................"winning solves everything." So, what is Dana waiting on? I know he ain't stupit! Right? Come on Dana, shake the Pepsi out of your ears! Warez
IMO, the relationship appears toxic and will get messy regardless of record.
The easiest road to separation is DH getting offered a new HC position. Remember when Tuberville left Texas Tech for UC?
Here's my predication.
After next season, Tom Herman leaves Houston for a bigger job while his stock is high.
Houston then makes Dana a good offer for their HC position and he accepts.
WVU is free from his contract, and Dana leaves some cash on the table for a better situation.
WVU hires Bo Pelini.
After next season, Tom Herman leaves Houston for a bigger job while his stock is high.
Houston then makes Dana a good offer for their HC position and he accepts.
WVU is free from his contract, and Dana leaves some cash on the table for a better situation.
WVU hires Bo Pelini.
If DH is 7-0 or 6-1 he tells Lyons to go F himself and will take another job.
What if he is 5-2, does Lyons fail WVU football again by keeping status quo? If so no coaches will stay and WVU will have its 3rd year in a row where recruiting is harmed.
Lyons is on his way to turning WVU into a unstable unsuccessful sPitt program
No need to worry about this, WVU is likely 2-5 in the first 7 games and 4-8 for the season. The 2016/17 team has less of everything than the 2015/16 team had and Dana knows he is a dead man walking out the door. WVU will be phoning it in neat fall.
Steve, I see your point, but I don't think Holgorsen leaves during an unexpectedly successful season. There just aren't that many $3 million dollar coaching jobs waiting for a HC with one year of double digit wins. He's got a beautiful home, ties with his coaches is still building his HC resume'. Besides, 10 wins would likely get him a raise to $3.5 million and a more typical extension.
I don't know Michael, I am just not as optimistic about the entire situation as you are
Dana would probably have to win 10 plus games to have any chance of getting another power 5 offer and i doubt any blood blood is gonna want him based on 1 good season. Lyons showed great leadership in offering a contract that protected the interests of the university 1st. There is no excuse for wvu football not to be able to compete for conference championships in the Big 12. It only took a mountain west team 3 years to win a share of the title in this league
agreed he will have to string together a couple of 10 win seasons before he would show up on the radar of a school willing to pay him the big money
Well, one negative thing is commenting at all on a contract situation. An AD that puts that out there is not too keen on being positive towards his HC. It isn't about what is or isn't being negotiated right now, it's the fact that, even if he was being honest, he shouldn't have made that comment. I still think a deal is made or we don't know any more about it, because next season is Dana's last. However it is poor PR and poor management to frankly comment to a rabid fanbase like ours because people will obviously make a mountain out of a molehill...and everyone looks like assholes in the end.
You see, Dana was that "unknown risk" just 5 years ago. He was on the bidding block and Oliver went and got him. Look at Pitt. They can't get it right most times and when they do, their coach is out the door ASAP. Do we want to continuously hit the reset button on the coaching carousel and never keep a staff in place? That's not assuming Dana would not leave for another job if his record were better. I'd fully expect him to be entertaining offers had we beaten K-State. Dana's bought into WV with moving his son here and building his house, and his teams have gotten back to a Mountaineer brand that we know and love, but we are expecting 2005 Big East results in a 2015 Big XII. We aren't day and night different from the Big XII teams and are knocking on the door to the upper echelon. However, we are consistently going against teams with more money, in-state recruits, and stadiums. We are almost always going to take our lumps in this conference and that is the case for any coach here. I'm not so willing to dive in a very shallow pool of unknowns for another Dana when we're not too far off with him. I saw progress this year; for once, we didn't collapse after midseason. We could have easily given up after starting 0-4 in conference.
CoalCountry52, we are on the same page, but I set the bar just a little higher when it comes to Mountaineer potential. The 2015 could have easily been 10 - 3 (6 - 3) with a QB more effective at throwing the ball. Five turnovers by the QB cost them the OSU game and we all saw what happened against KSU. The Mountaineers will nearly always be a blue collar team but as Bobby Bowden said," You give me one great player with a bunch of good players and I will compete for the conference championship."
The Mountaineers have never had this kind of quality depth. When someone of the caliber of Marc Bulger, Jeff Hostetler, Pat White, Major Harris and others I am forgetting take the helm it's going to be a battle for the Big 12. As a life long WVU fan that watched them go three years as a top ten program with White and Slayton I have to believe that. Watch the Fiesta Bowl win over Oklahoma again or the Sugar Bowl victory over Georgia in Atlanta. CoalCountry52, we can compete. Not every year, but in cycles.
And I'm not saying the bar shouldn't be that high, but most seasons we are going to be in the 3rd-6th place range in this conference and that's nothing to be ashamed of. I expected 8-4 regular season and we ended up 8-5 after the bowl. I can't really complain given how it honestly was headed to 2013 lows until we got out of the murder stretch.
If Dana has a QB that can make the throws and wasn't always one hit from being killed/rattled/fumbled, we would be right with the top 3-4 the past few years. That's Dana's achilles heel. We need a good field general and once we do, look out. Our fan base keeps wanting us to pull a really good stretch again but fails to forget the so-so seasons in between our great ones. We are not a bad program. Our expectations should always be for the crown, but we shouldn't want to ax everyone the moment we fail to reach that. That is my overall point.
What if that coach has NEVER come close to that expectation for a crown ... Dana hasn't. The question I have is how long do you give a coach to reach that expectation. Dana will get his 5th full season as WVU's head coach in the Big 12. If WVU has a similar season to last year, which is very much possible, would you still think Dana deserves more than the 6th year in his contract to prove he can get WVU to compete for a Big 12 championship? This isn't about firing Dana now, its about whether or not it is wise to give a contract extension that requires more of a financial commitment from WVU to Dana based upon his resume from the last 4 seasons.
If Dana goes 8-5 next year I'd be fine keeping him around. Maybe i am just easier to please than most, but i'd be upset if he fired DH after a season like that.
So you're saying a booster was willing to cover Dana's exit, as long as we hired RR as his replacement? We can obviously assume who that booster was, but if that's true - we should have taken the deal.
