Investment thesis

[WVPATX]

Russia is in Syria and propping up Assad by going after U.S. rebel allies. They will also go after ISIS although that was not their main goal. Their main goal is to take our the rebels and then claim that if the only group willing to kill ISIS is Assad and the Russians. This will ensure Assad's future. What does Russia get out of this? In a word, influence in the Middle East. The reason that is so very important to Putin is oil. Russia is awash in oil and current prices are killing the Russian economy.

Today, Russia is meeting with the Saudi's. Why? The Saudi's are terrified of ISIS and my strong guess is that Russia will offer protection if the Saudi's relent on oil prices.

Energy stocks are surging today as WTI is at $48/bbl. It was $38 just a month or so ago. Brent is over $50/bbl. These prices are still much too low to help Russia out very much. Look for oil to go much higher as Russia imposes its will.

 

[Op2]

Okay, so you're finally coming around to the POV that we should be developing alternative energy sources instead of relying so much on oil, since the latter approach benefits so many bad guys.

 

[WVPATX]

Okay, so you're finally coming around to the POV that we should be developing alternative energy sources instead of relying so much on oil, since the latter approach benefits so many bad guys.

Alternative energy sources are much, much more expensive than fossil fuels. Why punish the poor with sky high energy prices. I am all in favor of research and development but until alternative energy is price competitive, I am not in favor of punishing the poor and destroying good, high paying jobs. BTW, the one guy benefiting the bad guys the most is Obama's capitulation to Iran. $150B will buy lots and lots of terrorists' weapons.

 

[D. Denzil Finney]

Alternative energy sources are much, much more expensive than fossil fuels. Why punish the poor with sky high energy prices. I am all in favor of research and development but until alternative energy is price competitive, I am not in favor of punishing the poor and destroying good, high paying jobs. BTW, the one guy benefiting the bad guys the most is Obama's capitulation to Iran. $150B will buy lots and lots of terrorists' weapons.

Are you now a lefty or just being wishy washy?

 

[WVPATX]

Are you now a lefty or just being wishy washy?

Not sure what is in my post that is leftist. The market should determine our energy policy, imo.

 

[TarHeelEer]

Okay, so you're finally coming around to the POV that we should be developing alternative energy sources instead of relying so much on oil, since the latter approach benefits so many bad guys.

Who has said we shouldn't be developing alternatives? Propping up "green private businesses" who fail within 2 years because they are your buddies and have given you money isn't developing alternatives.

 

[Op2]

People on this board, that's who. It's pretty much nothing but drill baby drill. And as far as propping up goes, keep in mind that the oil business is propped up quite a bit, especially in terms of defense spending to tend to parts of the world that we only care about because they generate oil. That is in effect an oil subsidy.

 

[WVPATX]

People on this board, that's who. It's pretty much nothing but drill baby drill. And as far as propping up goes, keep in mind that the oil business is propped up quite a bit, especially in terms of defense spending to tend to parts of the world that we only care about because they generate oil. That is in effect an oil subsidy.

Fossil fuels have led the world to the greatest economic benefit the world has ever seen. What would we do without them? You bet I'm for drilling and coal mining. Those fuels give us an incredible quality of life. Libs amaze me. The poor benefit most from relatively cheap energy. The poor around the world would benefit from cheap energy. And yet, you'd gladly punish the poor for your very expensive green energy. BTW, the more we produce in the U.S. the less reliant we are on bad actor countries. Yet, libs want to destroy fossil fuel production in the U.S.

 

[mule_eer]

Fossil fuels have led the world to the greatest economic benefit the world has ever seen. What would we do without them? You bet I'm for drilling and coal mining. Those fuels give us an incredible quality of life. Libs amaze me. The poor benefit most from relatively cheap energy. The poor around the world would benefit from cheap energy. And yet, you'd gladly punish the poor for your very expensive green energy. BTW, the more we produce in the U.S. the less reliant we are on bad actor countries. Yet, libs want to destroy fossil fuel production in the U.S.

Without research into alternatives, and without large scale production of alternatives, the cost will never drop until fossil fuels rise to meet the cost. I keep harping on this, but what is wrong with looking at alternatives while still using fossil fuels. This doesn't need to be an all or nothing proposition. That also allows individuals to select where they want to spend their money, i.e the free market. An analogy would be organic food. No one is harmed by having the organic or non option in the grocery store, and individual consumers are free to make those choices on their own.

This gets a little more complicated when you discuss getting power (or fuel) to a home. I don't think many places are without some energy production coming from alternative sources (wind and solar locally for me), and most people in single family homes have the option to add their own hardware that can help power their homes or feed back to the grid if they choose.

 

[WVPATX]

Without research into alternatives, and without large scale production of alternatives, the cost will never drop until fossil fuels rise to meet the cost. I keep harping on this, but what is wrong with looking at alternatives while still using fossil fuels. This doesn't need to be an all or nothing proposition. That also allows individuals to select where they want to spend their money, i.e the free market. An analogy would be organic food. No one is harmed by having the organic or non option in the grocery store, and individual consumers are free to make those choices on their own.

This gets a little more complicated when you discuss getting power (or fuel) to a home. I don't think many places are without some energy production coming from alternative sources (wind and solar locally for me), and most people in single family homes have the option to add their own hardware that can help power their homes or feed back to the grid if they choose.

If you read my post, I'm all in favor of research and development. I'm not in favor of forced destruction of an industry and all the good paying jobs. I'm also not in favor of artificially raising energy prices on anyone. When alternative energy can compete with fossil fuel prices, many Americans will convert.

 

[Op2]

Fossil fuels have led the world to the greatest economic benefit the world has ever seen. What would we do without them? You bet I'm for drilling and coal mining. Those fuels give us an incredible quality of life. Libs amaze me. The poor benefit most from relatively cheap energy. The poor around the world would benefit from cheap energy. And yet, you'd gladly punish the poor for your very expensive green energy. BTW, the more we produce in the U.S. the less reliant we are on bad actor countries. Yet, libs want to destroy fossil fuel production in the U.S.

By your attitude we'd have never started using fossil fuels because hey, whale oil has served us well so why do we need to change?

Fossil fuels per se haven't led to economic benefits, rather what has led to economic benefits is encouraging innovation rather than protecting entrenched interest no matter what.

 

[WVPATX]

By your attitude we'd have never started using fossil fuels because hey, whale oil has served us well so why do we need to change?

Fossil fuels per se haven't led to economic benefits, rather what has led to economic benefits is encouraging innovation rather than protecting entrenched interest no matter what.

You're absolutely insane if you don't believe fossil fuels have provided enormous benefit to mankind. Even radical Libs will admit that fact.

 

[Op2]

You're absolutely insane if you don't believe fossil fuels have provided enormous benefit to mankind. Even radical Libs will admit that fact.

Read what I wrote again. It's not the fossil fuels per se, it's the market and innovation. If it was fossil fuels per se that were good then we should not stop using them until the very last of them is used up. But instead we'll stop using them long before that.

 

[WVPATX]

Read what I wrote again. It's not the fossil fuels per se, it's the market and innovation. If it was fossil fuels per se that were good then we should not stop using them until the very last of them is used up. But instead we'll stop using them long before that.

The market yields innovation. If cold fusion becomes a reality, our need for fossil fuels would greatly change. It's always been that way. And yes, fossil fuels have led to unprecedented human benefit. That's simply undeniable.

 

[moe]

Russia is in Syria and propping up Assad by going after U.S. rebel allies. They will also go after ISIS although that was not their main goal. Their main goal is to take our the rebels and then claim that if the only group willing to kill ISIS is Assad and the Russians. This will ensure Assad's future. What does Russia get out of this? In a word, influence in the Middle East. The reason that is so very important to Putin is oil. Russia is awash in oil and current prices are killing the Russian economy.

Today, Russia is meeting with the Saudi's. Why? The Saudi's are terrified of ISIS and my strong guess is that Russia will offer protection if the Saudi's relent on oil prices.
Energy stocks are surging today as WTI is at $48/bbl. It was $38 just a month or so ago. Brent is over $50/bbl. These prices are still much too low to help Russia out very much. Look for oil to go much higher as Russia imposes its will.

Or not, everyone has a theory.

 

[moe]

Fossil fuels have led the world to the greatest economic benefit the world has ever seen. What would we do without them? You bet I'm for drilling and coal mining. Those fuels give us an incredible quality of life. Libs amaze me. The poor benefit most from relatively cheap energy. The poor around the world would benefit from cheap energy. And yet, you'd gladly punish the poor for your very expensive green energy. BTW, the more we produce in the U.S. the less reliant we are on bad actor countries. Yet, libs want to destroy fossil fuel production in the U.S.

Why don't you mention the environmental degradation that the extraction and burning of fossil fuels causes? You act like there is no downside. There's a reason that fossil fuels have been the cost leader...pollution.

 

[WVPATX]

Why don't you mention the environmental degradation that the extraction and burning of fossil fuels causes? You act like there is no downside. There's a reason that fossil fuels have been the cost leader...pollution.

What is it with you liberals? Fossil fuels are easily one of the single biggest factors is mankind's explosive growth in quality of life. Many, many great aspects of life have some negative impacts (e.g. cars, planes, trains, air conditioning, heating, manufacturing, etc.) but on the whole it is not a question that fossil fuels have been an enormous benefit. I can't possibly understand liberal hatred of fossil fuels given their enormous benefit.

 

[Keyser76]

This argument will end as soon as it is more economically feasible to use alternate fuels than fossil fuels. Corporations won't give a f*ck about the fossil fuels lobby once they can save money and increase share holder profit by holding down fuel costs. Look how fast they switched to cheap natural gas. And the technological breakthroughs are going to lower costs faster than you think, especially for solar panels. As soon as one is cheaper than the other the debate will be over.

 

[Keyser76]

What is it with you liberals? Fossil fuels are easily one of the single biggest factors is mankind's explosive growth in quality of life. Many, many great aspects of life have some negative impacts (e.g. cars, planes, trains, air conditioning, heating, manufacturing, etc.) but on the whole it is not a question that fossil fuels have been an enormous benefit. I can't possibly understand liberal hatred of fossil fuels given their enormous benefit.

We don't hate fossil fuels, we hate the fossil fuels lobbying arm which only looks out for the interests of the fossil fuels companies, not ours. I really don't get why this is a right left issue, I mean we are all gonna heat and power our houses with whatever is cheapest just like Industry will.

 

[WVPATX]

This argument will end as soon as it is more economically feasible to use alternate fuels than fossil fuels. Corporations won't give a f*ck about the fossil fuels lobby once they can save money and increase share holder profit by holding down fuel costs. Look how fast they switched to cheap natural gas. And the technological breakthroughs are going to lower costs faster than you think, especially for solar panels. As soon as one is cheaper than the other the debate will be over.

And that is how it should be. Let the market drive innovation. Customers will switch when it is to their benefit. I disagree with you on the speed with which this switch will occur. Fossil fuels will be the dominant energy source for a long, long time.

And every industry has lobbying groups that look out for that industry's benefit. You don't think the green energy industry uses lobbyists?

 

[moe]

What is it with you liberals? Fossil fuels are easily one of the single biggest factors is mankind's explosive growth in quality of life. Many, many great aspects of life have some negative impacts (e.g. cars, planes, trains, air conditioning, heating, manufacturing, etc.) but on the whole it is not a question that fossil fuels have been an enormous benefit. I can't possibly understand liberal hatred of fossil fuels given their enormous benefit.

Lol, ever heard of a cost-benefit analysis? Apparently you've only heard of the benefit aspect of it.

 

[WVUBRU]

Lol, ever heard of a cost-benefit analysis? Apparently you've only heard of the benefit aspect of it.

Exactly. In order to push a specific agenda instead of discussing facts, one has to close one eye. This poster has made it an art form and should never be taken seriously.

 

[WVPATX]

Lol, ever heard of a cost-benefit analysis? Apparently you've only heard of the benefit aspect of it.

Do me a favor and spend a year doing without fossil fuels. Do a week without the benefit of fossil fuels. Your ignorance is astounding.

 

[WVPATX]

Exactly. In order to push a specific agenda instead of discussing facts, one has to close one eye. This poster has made it an art form and should never be taken seriously.

So you're claiming that fossil fuels have been a net negative to society? Remarkable.

 

[WVUBRU]

So you're claiming that fossil fuels have been a net negative to society? Remarkable.

No. Why are you making up lies? Only reason would be to rationalize an agenda which is what you do. You know nothing else.

 

[WVPATX]

No. Why are you making up lies? Only reason would be to rationalize an agenda which is what you do. You know nothing else.

Then what is your point? You accuse me of pushing an agenda, do you push one? I'll debate all day long the benefits of fossil fuels. Bring it on.

 

[WVUBRU]

Then what is your point? You accuse me of pushing an agenda, do you push one? I'll debate all day long the benefits of fossil fuels. Bring it on.

Point is you are not worth debating with and trolls should be ignored. Which is what i normally do with your topics and hope more will do it as well until you quit trolling.

 

[moe]

Do me a favor and spend a year doing without fossil fuels. Do a week without the benefit of fossil fuels. Your ignorance is astounding.

You come on here pimping the positives of fossil fuels while totally ignoring the negative aspects, just trying to balance the discussion and helping to explain why they're so "cheap".

 

[WVPATX]

Point is you are not worth debating with and trolls should be ignored. Which is what i normally do with your topics and hope more will do it as well until you quit trolling.

Again, I'll debate you all day long on the net benefits of fossil fuels. I posted earlier that almost everything in life has both positives and negatives. But on the whole, fossil fuels have been one of man's greatest assets and have raised the quality of life of humans to extraordinary heights. I think your ideology is blinding your vision.

 

[WVPATX]

You come on here pimping the positives of fossil fuels while totally ignoring the negative aspects, just trying to balance the discussion and helping to explain why they're so "cheap".

And I would correctly argue that the cost/benefit analysis performed on fossil fuels would be overwhelming positive.