I'm asking for a Mountaineer point of view on this...

[leftackle70]

It's off season and we are waiting for important stuff like a Sags decision and a Matthew commit.

So for the sake of discussion.

Isn't it time the NCAA creates another division for CB within the D1 ranks?

There are a number of schools like Marshall [C-usa ] and Ohio [MAC] who know full well every august when they report for camp, they have absolutely NO CHANCE of a NC. They might get a smell at playoff bid but, realistically, NO WAY!

Isn't it time to create another division and utilize some of the worthless bowls as their playoff sites? Marshall could then "play for championships" once again ! Probably sell a few more tickets and TV would also benefit.

Just a thought. What do you think?

 

[MichiganHerd]

Football - Yes There's about a dozen or so schools that dominate the sport.

Basketball - No Teams from non-power conferences can do well in the dance. Gonzaga, just to name one.

 

[Orlaco]

There are a number of schools (fans) like Marshall [C-usa ] and Ohio [MAC] who know full well every august when they report for camp, they have absolutely NO CHANCE of a NC. They might get a smell at playoff bid but, realistically, NO WAY!

What do you think?

Reading this forum, WVU fans would have you thinking we’re part of that group.

 

[Buster68]

It's off season and we are waiting for important stuff like a Sags decision and a Matthew commit.

So for the sake of discussion.

Isn't it time the NCAA creates another division for CB within the D1 ranks?

There are a number of schools like Marshall [C-usa ] and Ohio [MAC] who know full well every august when they report for camp, they have absolutely NO CHANCE of a NC. They might get a smell at playoff bid but, realistically, NO WAY!

Isn't it time to create another division and utilize some of the worthless bowls as their playoff sites? Marshall could then "play for championships" once again ! Probably sell a few more tickets and TV would also benefit.

Just a thought. What do you think?

The next thing you'll be asking for is a participation trophy for these schools. If they want to play with the big boys, then learn to accept the consequences.

 

[leftackle70]

The next thing you'll be asking for is a participation trophy for these schools. If they want to play with the big boys, then learn to accept the consequences.

No not true.
But you have to admit the new playoff system leaves mid majors out of the picture and it's the only group [D1 Football ] where this happens. Doesn't every kid deserve to think he can compete for a championship when season starts? Some know they cannot. Every year.

 

[Buster68]

If that's the case instead of trying to move up, they should try moving down a level or two. There are championships at those levels.

 

[WVUFanForever]

How many of these schools were powers at I-AA and decided to leave it for greener pastures of Big Boy football. I don't feel bad for any of them. They knew what they were getting into.

 

[WVUALLEN]

It's off season and we are waiting for important stuff like a Sags decision and a Matthew commit.

So for the sake of discussion.

Isn't it time the NCAA creates another division for CB within the D1 ranks?

There are a number of schools like Marshall [C-usa ] and Ohio [MAC] who know full well every august when they report for camp, they have absolutely NO CHANCE of a NC. They might get a smell at playoff bid but, realistically, NO WAY!

Isn't it time to create another division and utilize some of the worthless bowls as their playoff sites? Marshall could then "play for championships" once again ! Probably sell a few more tickets and TV would also benefit.

Just a thought. What do you think?

I don't care if Marshall ever gets a bucket to piss in.

 

[leftackle70]

I don't care if Marshall ever gets a bucket to piss in.

Oh, don't get me wrong. Have zero love for Marshall.

But I played D2 football and had the chance to win a NC every year. We didn't but at least I had the chance.

I feel bad for the kids who know they never will and they are the only NCAA athletes where this holds true.

 

[Soaring Eagle 74]

It's off season and we are waiting for important stuff like a Sags decision and a Matthew commit.

So for the sake of discussion.

Isn't it time the NCAA creates another division for CB within the D1 ranks?

There are a number of schools like Marshall [C-usa ] and Ohio [MAC] who know full well every august when they report for camp, they have absolutely NO CHANCE of a NC. They might get a smell at playoff bid but, realistically, NO WAY!

Isn't it time to create another division and utilize some of the worthless bowls as their playoff sites? Marshall could then "play for championships" once again ! Probably sell a few more tickets and TV would also benefit.

Just a thought. What do you think?

“There are a number of schools who know full well every August when they report for camp, they have absolutely NO CHANCE of a NC. They might get a smell at playoff bid but, realistically, NO WAY!”

Could we not be lumped into this category?

 

[MichiganHerd]

There's 130 D1 teams, and 90% of them already know they're not going to win it all. Back before the playoff, there was probably only 80% of them eliminated before the first kickoff. Now days, with the CFP, even the fluke teams have virtually no chance at running the table, and then following it up by beating a pair of blue bloods in the semi-finals and championship game.

It is what it is. If you're looking for a participation trophy, then you'll probably need to cut the current group of 130 teams into about six divisions.

Otherwise, it's Alabama, LSU, Florida State, Georgia, USC, Oregon, Ohio State, Texas, Clemson, or Oklahoma pretty much EVERY year. Toss in another 4 or 5 in Notre Dame, and an also run from the other P5 conferences.

 

[Buster68]

Oh, don't get me wrong. Have zero love for Marshall.

But I played D2 football and had the chance to win a NC every year. We didn't but at least I had the chance.

I feel bad for the kids who know they never will and they are the only NCAA athletes where this holds true.

Life is about choices and those kids had choices. Maybe they chose to get a free college education which may be just as or more important than playing for a championship. All choices have corresponding benefits and consequences. The inability of many of today's youth and adults to grasp this principle is at the heart of most of this country's problems. Let's blame or change the system instead of learning to deal with and work through a situation. Bureaucracy of all types is more than willing to jump in and save the day. We don't need more of it.

 

[3xWVUenginEER]

WVU has played Football 126 or so seasons. Zero National Titles!

Should WVU drop to a different division?

Or just keep playing for the fun of it?

I vote the latter!

I get what you're saying but like someone else said 90-95% of schools in D1 have pretty much zero chance of a NC at the beginning of every season. Well unless they go all UCF and just make one up!

Basketball it's even more than 90-95%-probably 99%-that have no chance at the start of every season.

Still play the games.

I personally think they should base football divisions on schools meeting certain minimum attendance requirements and hold them to it. Like for division one FBS say 15k-20k. I know this eliminates more than half the MAC & CUSA & sunbelt & WAC and some AAC & MWC schools but hey some of these schools are losing so much $$$$ trying to play football and they're passing the cost onto students who don't care about sports. It also would eliminate some P5 schools like Kansas & Duke too which are really just basketball schools that care nada about football.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

Reading this forum, WVU fans would have you thinking we’re part of that group.

Basically true right

 

[Chazz Michael Michaels]

In basketball, I disagree. Mid-majors and smaller schools have a chance at winning the Natty. It is very possible.
Just look recently: George Mason made the Final Four. Butler (before they joined the Big East) came within an in-and-out shot of winning the Title.
Loyola Chicago had a run this year.
You would never see upsets in football like we see in the NCAA BBall Tournament. All it takes is for a Butler or a Loyola to get a couple players and they can win in the Tournament.

WVU has played Football 126 or so seasons. Zero National Titles!

Should WVU drop to a different division?

Or just keep playing for the fun of it?

I vote the latter!

I get what you're saying but like someone else said 90-95% of schools in D1 have pretty much zero chance of a NC at the beginning of every season. Well unless they go all UCF and just make one up!

Basketball it's even more than 90-95%-probably 99%-that have no chance at the start of every season.

Still play the games.

I personally think they should base football divisions on schools meeting certain minimum attendance requirements and hold them to it. Like for division one FBS say 15k-20k. I know this eliminates more than half the MAC & CUSA & sunbelt & WAC and some AAC & MWC schools but hey some of these schools are losing so much $$$$ trying to play football and they're passing the cost onto students who don't care about sports. It also would eliminate some P5 schools like Kansas & Duke too which are really just basketball schools that care nada about football.

 

[TurningClock]

Power 5 conference money slants the playing field where non P5 schools have no chance in football and not much in BB - a separate division for non P5 conferences in football would generate more interest and prestige for those schools.....

 

[3xWVUenginEER]

Forgot about Butler in 2010 who beat good Cuse, K State, & Meat Chicken State before the clanger bounced out vs Duke. That almost eclipsed the miracle on ice. It was evident how good they were cause they went back to the NCAA Finals the next season and lost to UConn. Excellent point there.


The other schools like VCU, George Mason, and Loyola Chicago had easier paths to the final four. Had a chance to show at the Final Four, but they weren't the quality of a Butler. And Butler had a coach that's proven he's a generational type coach.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Should the best 32 be in 2 separate conferences of 16 teams each with 2 divisions? Taking the top 4 into the playoffs. Talk about no shot. Participation does not hand out trophies.

If non P5 schools don't like it then split into your own 66 team division. I would bet there are 85% of those 66 that will never have a shot at that title.

Participation does not hand out trophies.

 

[leftackle70]

First of all THANKS to all who contributed in this discussion. I hoped this would happen instead of "bluster" that occurs on most sports sites. There was good discussion here on this issue.

For those who mention "participation trophy"... I get that point. It is a nasty little PC presentation that began in our youth leagues so kids will not feel "left out", when we should be teaching them to "get better" or Lose!

I have gotten that point for years now.

But, in a sense the NCAA has already done that in two areas. They created lower divisions already and the proof is D2 champs of 2017 Texas A&M Commerce - D3 champs of 2017 Mt, Union and the FCS champ of coarse ND State. So if the definition of "participation trophy" is the creation of more divisions, the NCAA has already done that. My argument is Why Not One More? Why not allow ALL college football players the opportunity to play for a championship.

My disgust pertains to the current system. One, it is not a true playoff system like the lower divisions. Two, it is enhanced by weak OOC schedules that will permit a P5 school to play some cupcakes and bolster the win column and nudge them into championship mode.

My disgust continues with the current bowl agreements. If you want to address the "participation trophy" angle then perhaps we should go one step further and ask why it makes sense to send a 6-6 football team to a bowl.

A 6-6 football team needs to put away the equipment, go to the weight room and stop embarrassing their institution of higher learning.

But my solution is simple. Create ONE more division for the MAC, WAC, AA, C-USA and so on. Give them a playoff system of their own so the beat up on one another instead of being a opening season punching bag for the big boys.

Then, Make the big boys play Big Boy football and fill up their OOC with a somebody. Then when you hang a NC banner, it means you have played the best, you have beaten the best because you are the best.

Thanks for you input folks. This doesn't happen on every site.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Personally I think the BCS days were better. All teams based on a kind of point situation but not really. Everyone had a shot to make the big one. Even WVU had a shot in Rod last season and he shit his pants when he had that shot.

Now with the new playoff system, everything has to fall into a certain spot to have a shot at the egg carton. It is what it is. Money making machine that wants SEC in a playoff game every year.

So I get your point but continued separation can only confuse some just as the current playoff system. Switch to 8 teams and UCF would have made it in.

 

[VaultHunter]

Nothing wrong with an expanded playoff field of around 16 teams.

Those teams you mentioned (as an example not just for Marshall ) Have a chance to compete for a championship in all other major sports.

It's not like a playoff format with 16 teams including some G5 and P5 schools wouldn't eventually end up with the higher powers making it to the top anyway. Those G5 teams would be weeded out most of the time anyways.

Except for a situation like last season every so often where a team like UCF could end up winning it all.

Like it or not it's going to happen one day. It's the correct business model.

 

[VaultHunter]

The next thing you'll be asking for is a participation trophy for these schools. If they want to play with the big boys, then learn to accept the consequences.

Curious what exactly are "the consequences"?

Like going to a G5 or "non big boy school" and then making a millions of dollars as a All Pro competing at the highest level of football?