I wonder if his poor grammar is legitimately poor or calculated....

[countryroads89]

You are too young and stupid to even remember other depressions besides this last one. I went through several before the last one. Reagan, after carter, was given a worse one than his one. I went through Nixon trying to control the economy. Sorry but that's the truth. FDR had 4 terms and he couldn't do a damn thing but give away govt money on things that have been proven to not work. WPA=we piddle around. The only thing that saved this country from FDR was WW2 and he died.

FDR is the greatest president in our history. His programs are responsible for a great deal (see what I did there) of our nation's infrastructure. He handled WWII. Not only was the US experiencing tough economic times, but the entire world was. Mussolini was killed only 16 days after the death of FDR and Hitler committed suicide only 18 days after the death of FDR. Truman, another Democrat, came in and finished everything up and put an end to the war. I know the success of all those Democrats just burns your ass. FYI, there are history books that tell of history and you can learn quite a bit even though you weren't living at the time; I highly recommend you do some reading. Economists have stated the recession while W was in office was clearly the second greatest recession in our country's history.

 

[RichardPeterJohnson]

We are still below the number of people working when Obama took office. Give the real number not the phony one generated by our dishonest government. I guess if you've been out of work over two years, you aren't counted.

Ever heard of baby boomers?

 

[moe]

I did go to military school, for grades 10-12. Nothing easy about that. Everything else was public. The dumbing down of America has not helped. The lack of responsibility in America has not helped. Telling one race that it's not their fault they are killing each other at an alarming rate has not helped. Sooner or later, you have to take responsibility for your actions.

So you went to "free" school but you're railing against it. When was your dementia first diagnosed?

 

[WhiteTailEER]

We are still below the number of people working when Obama took office. Give the real number not the phony one generated by our dishonest government. I guess if you've been out of work over two years, you aren't counted.

Those are the real numbers, you want to interject a different scoring system into it and then make a comparison instead of using the one we've always used. How would you know if it's good or bad if you aren't comparing the same statistics?

It's like agreeing to play golf, but then using your handicap for scoring and not allowing the other person to use theirs.

 

[Airport]

So you went to "free" school but you're railing against it. When was your dementia first diagnosed?

Free college? No, it was paid for. I guess you are talking about public schooling being free. I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Airport]

Those are the real numbers, you want to interject a different scoring system into it and then make a comparison instead of using the one we've always used. How would you know if it's good or bad if you aren't comparing the same statistics?

It's like agreeing to play golf, but then using your handicap for scoring and not allowing the other person to use theirs.

The system should be changed to reflect how many people are actually working vs some make believe unemployment number that can be changed at the whim of who's in power. Since the population has increased and the number working is below where it was in 2008, we are below where we need to be for our taxes to pay for the government expenditures. By the way, my golf handicap is like my IQ compared to some on here, +1.

 

[moe]

Free college? No, it was paid for. I guess you are talking about public schooling being free. I have no idea what you are talking about.

Public school was "free" just like the free college you refer to, what's the difference? Does that help?

 

[Airport]

Public school was "free" just like the free college you refer to, what's the difference? Does that help?

College should not be free unless we do away with half of the faculty members and half the classes that make no sense. Then do away with government money that continually drives up cost of tuition. If we dry up the money, tuition will come down.

 

[bamaEER]

You sure like to point the finger at everyone else for your party's failures. Look at who you have running for Prez. The Republicans should try looking in the mirror and quit blaming everyone else for them being out of touch and dysfunctional.

To those GOP voters pissed about the upcoming Clinton presidency...You resoundingly nominated Donald Trump.

 

[Airport]

Public school was "free" just like the free college you refer to, what's the difference? Does that help?

I believe that our tax dollars pay for public education. Now, a lot of our colleges are subsidized by state and federal govt but not enough. We need a better junior college, community college program in every state to alleviate costs.

 

[moe]

9

 

[bkemmere]

75+ straight months of private job growth. Dow and S&P 500 at record levels. Budget deficits continue to decrease. Consumer confidence continues to rise. No, it aint perfect. But to pretend any Repub could've done better-particularly given that it was their mess Obama fixed-is laughable.

I'd like to dissect this a bit:

1) 75 months of private job growth: while true, it's widely understood that these aren't high paying/high skilled jobs. This includes folks working part-time and often multiple part-time jobs just to make ends meet. I've heard it referred to as "The Gig Economy". Lot's of freelancing and part-time work. Sure, there are more Starbucks barista's but there aren't many more highly-skilled workers. This reminds me...I need some coffee...And the point made in another post about the labor participation rate being the lowest on record shouldn't be ignored. It's a different stat than the unemployment rate but the two are measured at the same time and tell polar-opposite stories...so which is the truth?

2) General Stock Market Success: I find this one odd as it was the Liberal left who railed against the Big Wall Street Banks who the government bailed out as too big to fail! "They're the evil 1%!!!" you shouted from the streets while Occupying them. Well, Obama made them even richer and further exacerbated the income inequality situation that you people always whine about by allowing the Fed to manipulate interest rates. Of COURSE the stock market is going to go up when the return on a government bond is worth peanuts! Any wise investor would roll the dice on stocks rather than secure a guaranteed 1.25% return. It's artificially inflated and once the interest rates start to go back up, this market will come crashing down. It's not based on true market forces of production and increased value. GDP has been below 3% for a LONG time. There's just no where else to put your money that's worth a damn right now because rates are so stinking low.

3) Budget Deficits Continue to Decrease: That's because of record revenues aka taxes levied. So yeah, your boy Obama took more money out of the pockets of hard working Americans than any other president in history, and still managed to outspend what he took in by LARGE margins. Congrats.

4) Consumer Confidence Continues to Rise: You've got me on this one. Maybe everyone things everything will be free/provided for and that makes them happy? I honestly don't know...the price of gas is WAY down because OPEC is producing WAY WAY WAY more oil than the planet needs right now in hopes of running the American companies out of business, so maybe that's what this one is all about? See note 3 above on how much more money was taken out of consumers pockets and I struggle to understand this one, or its relevancy.

Another crowing achievement of the "Hope and Change" President is the stunning turn of events in the racial unity department. I can't recall a time since Rodney King that the country has been this divided and for this long. And the saddest part of all is that neither of the main party candidates is running on a platform of unification. Politics is all about divide and conquer, then get stupid rich off the backs of those idiots who just bought the bag of goods.

We have elected politicians. Not LEADERS. There's a difference.

And before you start calling me a Trump Humper, I think he's also a disaster in the making. He's a salesman. He's sold his bag of goods just as well if not better than Obama did in 2008. To that point, Obama was the least qualified candidate to ever be nominated. Trump is less qualified than that. Hillary is going to be a continuation/expansion of Obama's America. I'm looking third party

 

[Airport]

9

What does "9" mean? Now, that's a new one for me.

 

[RichardPeterJohnson]

I'd like to dissect this a bit:

1) 75 months of private job growth: while true, it's widely understood that these aren't high paying/high skilled jobs. This includes folks working part-time and often multiple part-time jobs just to make ends meet. I've heard it referred to as "The Gig Economy". Lot's of freelancing and part-time work. Sure, there are more Starbucks barista's but there aren't many more highly-skilled workers. This reminds me...I need some coffee...And the point made in another post about the labor participation rate being the lowest on record shouldn't be ignored. It's a different stat than the unemployment rate but the two are measured at the same time and tell polar-opposite stories...so which is the truth?

2) General Stock Market Success: I find this one odd as it was the Liberal left who railed against the Big Wall Street Banks who the government bailed out as too big to fail! "They're the evil 1%!!!" you shouted from the streets while Occupying them. Well, Obama made them even richer and further exacerbated the income inequality situation that you people always whine about by allowing the Fed to manipulate interest rates. Of COURSE the stock market is going to go up when the return on a government bond is worth peanuts! Any wise investor would roll the dice on stocks rather than secure a guaranteed 1.25% return. It's artificially inflated and once the interest rates start to go back up, this market will come crashing down. It's not based on true market forces of production and increased value. GDP has been below 3% for a LONG time. There's just no where else to put your money that's worth a damn right now because rates are so stinking low.

3) Budget Deficits Continue to Decrease: That's because of record revenues aka taxes levied. So yeah, your boy Obama took more money out of the pockets of hard working Americans than any other president in history, and still managed to outspend what he took in by LARGE margins. Congrats.

4) Consumer Confidence Continues to Rise: You've got me on this one. Maybe everyone things everything will be free/provided for and that makes them happy? I honestly don't know...the price of gas is WAY down because OPEC is producing WAY WAY WAY more oil than the planet needs right now in hopes of running the American companies out of business, so maybe that's what this one is all about? See note 3 above on how much more money was taken out of consumers pockets and I struggle to understand this one, or its relevancy.

Another crowing achievement of the "Hope and Change" President is the stunning turn of events in the racial unity department. I can't recall a time since Rodney King that the country has been this divided and for this long. And the saddest part of all is that neither of the main party candidates is running on a platform of unification. Politics is all about divide and conquer, then get stupid rich off the backs of those idiots who just bought the bag of goods.

We have elected politicians. Not LEADERS. There's a difference.

And before you start calling me a Trump Humper, I think he's also a disaster in the making. He's a salesman. He's sold his bag of goods just as well if not better than Obama did in 2008. To that point, Obama was the least qualified candidate to ever be nominated. Trump is less qualified than that. Hillary is going to be a continuation/expansion of Obama's America. I'm looking third party

File this one under: if Obama cured cancer, wingnuts would say "what about diabetes?" Obama has been like a good Boy Scout....he left it a helluva lot better than he found it.

 

[PriddyBoy]

FDR is the greatest president in our history. His programs are responsible for a great deal (see what I did there) of our nation's infrastructure. He handled WWII. Not only was the US experiencing tough economic times, but the entire world was. Mussolini was killed only 16 days after the death of FDR and Hitler committed suicide only 18 days after the death of FDR. Truman, another Democrat, came in and finished everything up and put an end to the war. I know the success of all those Democrats just burns your ass. FYI, there are history books that tell of history and you can learn quite a bit even though you weren't living at the time; I highly recommend you do some reading. Economists have stated the recession while W was in office was clearly the second greatest recession in our country's history.

"Greatest president in our history" is some lofty praise. The CCC was a great thing. Bridges, Park Lodges, shelters and other buildings (many still in use today) at a time when we needed such things. Some of the best Scotch-Irish stone masons and craftsmen who knew a hard days work. Today we need infrastructure upgrades like we invested in 7 years ago. Shovel ready my ass. All we got for that investment was some signs that told us where the money for the signs came from. FDR also threw the Americans and non-Americans of Japanese descent in Jail. You can call it internment camps if it makes you feel better. Desperate times call for...yada yada we won.

History isn't always pretty. Hillary wants the US Open Arms Hotel, Trump wants vetting of Muslim refugees who ISIS vows to infiltrate. Can we at least somewhat manage some people without tossing about Social Security cards like confetti?

 

[Airport]

"Greatest president in our history" is some lofty praise. The CCC was a great thing. Bridges, Park Lodges, shelters and other buildings (many still in use today) at a time when we needed such things. Some of the best Scotch-Irish stone masons and craftsmen who knew a hard days work. Today we need infrastructure upgrades like we invested in 7 years ago. Shovel ready my ass. All we got for that investment was some signs that told us where the money for the signs came from. FDR also threw the Americans and non-Americans of Japanese descent in Jail. You can call it internment camps if it makes you feel better. Desperate times call for...yada yada we won.

History isn't always pretty. Hillary wants the US Open Arms Hotel, Trump wants vetting of Muslim refugees who ISIS vows to infiltrate. Can we at least somewhat manage some people without tossing about Social Security cards like confetti?

In 4 terms FDR manage to create no growth until WW2. Fact not fiction. He started a lot of welfare programs that started voluntary and became mandatory, which any good socialst wants, and what have got now? A country full of people who think that the upper half owes them a living. Woodrow Wilson really started it and then FDR created nothing until Japan forced his hand. Government creates nothing, it takes and then distributes it to it's friends.

 

[CAJUNEER]

File this one under: if Obama cured cancer, wingnuts would say "what about diabetes?" Obama has been like a good Boy Scout....he left it a helluva lot better than he found it.

$19,412,029,998,993...His cure for cancer is killing the patient.

 

[PriddyBoy]

In 4 terms FDR manage to create no growth until WW2. Fact not fiction. He started a lot of welfare programs that started voluntary and became mandatory, which any good socialst wants, and what have got now? A country full of people who think that the upper half owes them a living. Woodrow Wilson really started it and then FDR created nothing until Japan forced his hand. Government creates nothing, it takes and then distributes it to it's friends.

"Greatest president in our history" is some lofty praise.

I hope the sarcasm wasn't lost in this statement. FDR's rank is debatable. I know the negative and positive talking points of his presidency, but I don't want to go there. I took the bait.

 

[countryroads89]

I hope the sarcasm wasn't lost in this statement. FDR's rank is debatable. I know the negative and positive talking points of his presidency, but I don't want to go there. I took the bait.

Most historians place him in the top three with Lincoln and Washington, without trying to rank the top three among each other.

 

[PriddyBoy]

Most historians place him in the top three

According to who? Did you take a poll of all historians or was your poll sufficiently random and numerous for legitimacy and exceeded the over 50% agreement you proclaim?

 

[Airport]

Most historians place him in the top three with Lincoln and Washington, without trying to rank the top three among each other.

He is the best wkth more than two terms and easily the worst with more than two terms.

 

[bkemmere]

File this one under: if Obama cured cancer, wingnuts would say "what about diabetes?" Obama has been like a good Boy Scout....he left it a helluva lot better than he found it.

File this one under: if Obama threw a box of kittens off the roof of the White House into the rotating propellers of his Marine helo, Libtards would celebrate his commitment to controlling the homeless animal population!

The only people that are doing a helluva lot better now than when he came into office are the wall street bankers. Wages are stagnant. The economy has grown at less than 3% throughout his entire presidency which is the smallest growth to ever follow an economic recession. Current GDP is at 1.2%. The Nobel Peace Prize Winner has dropped more bombs...on more countries...with fewer results...than Bush did! And he ran on a platform of Bush as THE war-mongerer! The middle east DEFINATELY isn't "a helluva lot better" than when he found it. Take the "rose colored" glasses off RPJ. Your boy ain't no boy scout

 

[Airport]

Most historians place him in the top three with Lincoln and Washington, without trying to rank the top three among each other.

He doesn't even make the top 5 and only because of wW2 does he even get mentioned. Can you imagine that after three terms today, you would have no growth and the press would praise you? Well, I guess we do have that example right now.

 

[RichardPeterJohnson]

File this one under: if Obama threw a box of kittens off the roof of the White House into the rotating propellers of his Marine helo, Libtards would celebrate his commitment to controlling the homeless animal population!

The only people that are doing a helluva lot better now than when he came into office are the wall street bankers. Wages are stagnant. The economy has grown at less than 3% throughout his entire presidency which is the smallest growth to ever follow an economic recession. Current GDP is at 1.2%. The Nobel Peace Prize Winner has dropped more bombs...on more countries...with fewer results...than Bush did! And he ran on a platform of Bush as THE war-mongerer! The middle east DEFINATELY isn't "a helluva lot better" than when he found it. Take the "rose colored" glasses off RPJ. Your boy ain't no boy scout

File this under another wingnut bitching that Obama hasn't fixed Repub-caused problems fast enough.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

By the way, my golf handicap is like my IQ compared to some on here, +1.

That's a great line!! LOL

 

[CAJUNEER]

File this under another wingnut bitching that Obama hasn't fixed Repub-caused problems fast enough.

8 years later--it's still the Bush economy.

 

[Airport]

File this under another wingnut bitching that Obama hasn't fixed Repub-caused problems fast enough.

Housing for everybody was not a Repub induced problem. It was our government as usual. I don't need to lay the problem at one party, it's government getting into what they should never be in, backing loans and making the rules for those loans. Not everybody should own a home, only those that can pay for it.

 

[Airport]

8 years later--it's still the Bush economy.

Liberals running government is the worse combination ever.

 

[bornaneer]

That's complete horseshit by any objective measure. Geez. have you lost it?

Hate to have to bring you up to speed on this subject. While FDR may have been a great leader, studies have shown his anti-competition and pro-labor measures actually prolonged the great depression by at least seven years and the data analysis backs it up. Studies show the the poor and especially Blacks suffered the worst because of the FDR misguided policies. World War II is what led us out of the depression.

 

[CAJUNEER]

Hate to have to bring you up to speed on this subject. While FDR may have been a great leader, studies have shown his anti-competition and pro-labor measures actually prolonged the great depression by at least seven years and the data analysis backs it up. Studies show the the poor and especially Blacks suffered the worst because of the FDR misguided policies. World War II is what led us out of the depression.

And he was a racist.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

Housing for everybody was not a Repub induced problem. It was our government as usual. I don't need to lay the problem at one party, it's government getting into what they should never be in, backing loans and making the rules for those loans. Not everybody should own a home, only those that can pay for it.

That's not entirely accurate .. private industry has to take a lot of blame for that. There was all kinds of shady shit going on that had nothing to do with the government pushing one thing or another.

 

[Airport]

That's not entirely accurate .. private industry has to take a lot of blame for that. There was all kinds of shady shit going on that had nothing to do with the government pushing one thing or another.

Please, government back those loans and told the bankers to make the loans no matter how bad the prospects to paying it back. Fannie and Freddie and Greedy and dopey are all part of our government. Our govt should have stayed out of that business but guys like Barry frank were involved and that's what led the housing market to crash and our economy to crash.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

Please, government back those loans and told the bankers to make the loans no matter how bad the prospects to paying it back. Fannie and Freddie and Greedy and dopey are all part of our government. Our govt should have stayed out of that business but guys like Barry frank were involved and that's what led the housing market to crash and our economy to crash.

You're ignoring the role of derivatives

 

[CAJUNEER]

You're ignoring the role of derivatives

How did derivatives contribute to the collapse?

 

[PriddyBoy]

Dow and S&P 500 at record levels.

Not sure how this can be true if they have dropped 7 days in a row, so any record would have been 7 days ago. I'm not saying it means anything, I just figured you'd want to be truthful.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

How did derivatives contribute to the collapse?

The derivatives were based off of the value of the underlying bonds, which contained these sub-prime mortgages. Since they were unregulated, they were being traded like crazy and there were derivatives of derivatives. There were many times the amount of money invested in derivatives vs. the securities that they were derived from.

The derivatives were supposed to hedge against the rise or fall of the housing market, one type of derivative protecting against movement each way. Several of the financial institutions found themselves too strongly invested in one position versus the other and placed themselves at tremendous risk. Those are the financial institutions that failed.

That's the part I'll never understand. I'm no financial expert, but myself, my engineer friend, and my truck driver neighbor all recognized that there was a housing bubble and that it HAD to crash. My truck driver neighbor even talked about moving, but said he'd just wait 5 years after everybody defaulted and then get the homes for cheap. Now, if we can see that, how can the banks and everybody else not see it?

The underlying cause was undoubtedly the sub-prime mortgages, but it was greatly exacerbated by the OTC derivative trading.

There are quite a number of articles out there describing this, and I've heard that The Big Short did a good job of showing what was going on as well. I was in my MBA program a few years after the crash and and did a paper on it, as well as all of the deregulation that had happened that lead to all the risky mortgages and risky positions by the banks in the first place. It goes clear back to 1980.

 

[bkemmere]

Please, government back those loans and told the bankers to make the loans no matter how bad the prospects to paying it back. Fannie and Freddie and Greedy and dopey are all part of our government. Our govt should have stayed out of that business but guys like Barry frank were involved and that's what led the housing market to crash and our economy to crash.

The Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 is the one where the Government would fine banks for not lending money. For having TOO much money not dolled out. So the Government, as you stated, meddled in creating false market forces. To avoid the hefty fines, the banks had to lower their lending standards. THEN those garbage loans were packaged and sold off in bulk to investors looking to make interest on their investments. The Banks got paid off, people moved into homes they couldn't afford and investors made decent interest on their investments because the rates on those garbage loans were higher than normal/good credit/documented income loans.

And here's the kicker...the CRA has been around for a long time. It was renewed and revised by both presidents Clinton and W. Bush.

Government has a horrible, just horrible, track record at trying to pick winners and losers in industry.

 

[bkemmere]

File this under another wingnut bitching that Obama hasn't fixed Repub-caused problems fast enough.

I'll file everything you have to say under "zero substance". There's just not a lot of there, there.

And I'm not a "wingnut" as I'm assuming you use that to attempt to insult people who have a critique of what your Lord Obama does and you have no substantive rebuke to offer. No, I'm an equal opportunity hater aka independent thinker, capable of seeing beyond party affiliation.

 

[Airport]

The derivatives were based off of the value of the underlying bonds, which contained these sub-prime mortgages. Since they were unregulated, they were being traded like crazy and there were derivatives of derivatives. There were many times the amount of money invested in derivatives vs. the securities that they were derived from.

The derivatives were supposed to hedge against the rise or fall of the housing market, one type of derivative protecting against movement each way. Several of the financial institutions found themselves too strongly invested in one position versus the other and placed themselves at tremendous risk. Those are the financial institutions that failed.

That's the part I'll never understand. I'm no financial expert, but myself, my engineer friend, and my truck driver neighbor all recognized that there was a housing bubble and that it HAD to crash. My truck driver neighbor even talked about moving, but said he'd just wait 5 years after everybody defaulted and then get the homes for cheap. Now, if we can see that, how can the banks and everybody else not see it?

The underlying cause was undoubtedly the sub-prime mortgages, but it was greatly exacerbated by the OTC derivative trading.

There are quite a number of articles out there describing this, and I've heard that The Big Short did a good job of showing what was going on as well. I was in my MBA program a few years after the crash and and did a paper on it, as well as all of the deregulation that had happened that lead to all the risky mortgages and risky positions by the banks in the first place. It goes clear back to 1980.

All done with the government mandating it. Again, our government has usually been at the root cause of a lot of our problems.

 

[Airport]

You're ignoring the role of derivatives

If our government had stayed out of mandating that banks give loans to people who shouldn't have them and backing them up, we wouldn't have even heard of derivatives. It's just another example of liberal govt doing something and it having just dire consequences to our lives.