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Harvard study of police shootings. No bias against blacks.

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WVPATX

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Jan 27, 2005
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Libs and the media go crazy when an African American is shot by a cop, but silence when a white person is shot and killed. This study by an African American professor at Harvard shows no police bias in these shootings although he does find different treatment relative to touching, macing, being pushed against a wall, etc.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/...police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html

The Washington Post came to the same conclusion:

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/07...ice-shootings-data-reveals-surprising-result/

All deaths are tragic but the media seem focused on only one side of the equation. I believe both studies focused on interaction with police officers and thus take crime into consideration. In other words, they don't just look at the percentage of the population but on the number of police interactions which typically involves crime.
 
WVPATX said:
Libs and the media go crazy when an African American is shot by a cop, but silence when a white person is shot and killed. This study by an African American professor at Harvard shows no police bias in these shootings although he does find different treatment relative to touching, macing, being pushed against a wall, etc.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/...police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html

The Washington Post came to the same conclusion:

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/07...ice-shootings-data-reveals-surprising-result/

All deaths are tragic but the media seem focused on only one side of the equation. I believe both studies focused on interaction with police officers and thus take crime into consideration. In other words, they don't just look at the percentage of the population but on the number of police interactions which typically involves crime.
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I'm glad you posted this. Because it sort of goes along with what I've been saying when you guys go crazy about a terrorist attack that kills a few people or going on about Muslims, while ignoring the triple homicide down the street, or the child rapist, the wife beater, etc etc etc.

Same thing, right? The media focuses only on the black shootings, ignoring the white ones. You guys focusing on the terrorist murders, while ignoring the others (that are much higher in numbers).
 
MountaineerWV said:
I'm glad you posted this. Because it sort of goes along with what I've been saying when you guys go crazy about a terrorist attack that kills a few people or going on about Muslims, while ignoring the triple homicide down the street, or the child rapist, the wife beater, etc etc etc.

Same thing, right? The media focuses only on the black shootings, ignoring the white ones. You guys focusing on the terrorist murders, while ignoring the others (that are much higher in numbers).
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well, we don't have to let in possible terrorist into our country
 
MountaineerWV said:
I'm glad you posted this. Because it sort of goes along with what I've been saying when you guys go crazy about a terrorist attack that kills a few people or going on about Muslims, while ignoring the triple homicide down the street, or the child rapist, the wife beater, etc etc etc.

Same thing, right? The media focuses only on the black shootings, ignoring the white ones. You guys focusing on the terrorist murders, while ignoring the others (that are much higher in numbers).
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I don't think I ignore any shooting that I am made aware of. Unfortunately, the media tend to focus on only one kind at least for an immense amount of coverage. As for terrorism, there is a big difference. Terrorism is all about coercing people through fear and intimidation to adopt a particular religion and to target innocent civilians, for the most part. It is intended to accomplish political ends. Moreover, terrorists, if possible, would love to kill thousands (as they already have). And WMD in the hands of a terrorist would be catastrophic and terrorists will use whatever weapons made available to them.

Criminals generally focus on murders to facilitate their criminal activity and don't want to kill as many innocent people as possible. The obvious exception is serial killers but as of yet, they have not sought to use very sophisticated weapons to kill as many as possible at one time.

All are evil, but terrorism is our gravest threat not just in terms of bodies, but in terms of international peace and some semblance of civility, particularly in the Middle East.
 
WVPATX said:
I don't think I ignore any shooting that I am made aware of. As for terrorism, there is a big difference. Terrorism is all about coercing people through fear and intimidation to adopt a particular religion and to target innocent civilians, for the most part. It is intended to accomplish political ends. Moreover, terrorists, if possible, would love to kill thousands (as they already have). A WMD in the hands of a terrorist would be catastrophic.

Criminals generally focus on murders to facilitate their criminal activity and don't want to kill as many innocent people as possible. The obvious exception is serial killers but as of yet, they have not sought to use very sophisticated weapons to kill as many as possible at one time.
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So, in the communities you love to harp on (African-American), where there is a high crime and drug rate, they don't use violence the same ways.......to instill "fear and intimidation" on the innocent groups?

How many people have died in the United States through just normal, everyday "terror" that I call violence? Compared to terrorism? When Trump says "make American great again", I agree with him (somewhat)......but I look at it as focusing on America and our problems (drugs, crime, etc.).

I don't live in fear of a terrorist attack more than I do of being hit by a drunk driver, being shot in a movie theatre, and so on.
 
Airport said:
They're not. But to ignore what is happening isn't very smart
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Again, I agree. I have never been opposed to some sort of a travel restriction (notice....not a "ban"). Whether it be a waiting period, or something else, I've always supported that. I don't like Trump, I've made that clear (because he's a pompous A$$HOLE....not just his politics).....but I have supported some things that he has either done or proposed. I've questions other things, not damned them. And some things, I am completely against.
 
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MountaineerWV said:
So, in the communities you love to harp on (African-American), where there is a high crime and drug rate, they don't use violence the same ways.......to instill "fear and intimidation" on the innocent groups?

How many people have died in the United States through just normal, everyday "terror" that I call violence? Compared to terrorism? When Trump says "make American great again", I agree with him (somewhat)......but I look at it as focusing on America and our problems (drugs, crime, etc.).

I don't live in fear of a terrorist attack more than I do of being hit by a drunk driver, being shot in a movie theatre, and so on.
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No, they use fear and intimidation against their enemies, rival gangs, rival drug lords, any rival. Or they kill for money, for jealousy/personal relationships or vengeance.

As I said, terror is the bigger issue for me because it could mean a huge number of deaths if the jihadists get the right kind of weapons in their hands.

I don't live in fear of being killed by a terrorist anymore than you do. But they pose the gravest danger if they can get the weapons they desire.
 
MountaineerWV said:
I'm talking about on this message board......and be honest, as you have said before, if you are getting on a plane and see a Jew and a 20-something Arab......what's in your head?
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No, what I said was that it is foolish for TSA to spend as much time on 80 year old grandmothers as they do on 20 year old Arabs. I don't remember posing anything about getting on a plane.
 
MountaineerWV said:
Again, I agree. I have never been opposed to some sort of a travel restriction (notice....not a "ban"). Whether it be a waiting period, or something else, I've always supported that. I don't like Trump, I've made that clear (because he's a pompous A$$HOLE....not just his politics).....but I have supported some things that he has either done or proposed. I've questions other things, not damned them. And some things, I am completely against.
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Trump has proposed a 90 day ban to figure out how to vet people from countries that support terrorism and have no functioning government. Obama picked out these countries, not Trump.
 
WVPATX said:
No, they use fear and intimidation against their enemies, rival gangs, rival drug lords, any rival. Or they kill for money, for jealousy/personal relationships or vengeance.
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Really? So, they don't use this fear to intimidate witnesses to not speak?
 
WVPATX said:
If you can't see the difference between terrorism and normal crime, I can't help you.
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I'm not saying they are the same, but their methods are the same (reasons are different, of course). And one is a more direct problem for American's daily lives than the other......
 
MountaineerWV said:
I'm not saying they are the same, but their methods are the same (reasons are different, of course). And one is a more direct problem for American's daily lives than the other......
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But one is a much larger existential threat. If a dirty bomb goes off in NYC, for example, can you imagine the impact.
 
MountaineerWV said:
I'm not saying they are the same, but their methods are the same (reasons are different, of course). And one is a more direct problem for American's daily lives than the other......
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I'll have to admit......your are making some honest and logical points tonight.
 
WVPATX said:
But one is a much larger existential threat. If a dirty bomb goes off in NYC, for example, can you imagine the impact.
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Ok, that's the big "IF" that people keep proclaiming. There's no "if" on the next rapist, child pedophile, domestic battery, drug overdose, murder, etc. etc. etc. That's a definite, it's GOING to happen. I'm not saying we ignore terrorism, but by our focus being on terrorism we are doing a few things:

1. Taking money away from other programs that would help to "Make America Great Again". I think Trump was on the right track when he told the Muslim nations to step up and fight terrorism....that would free us up greatly, and monetarily as well.
2. Giving terrorist organization more time on news, social media, etc., that they want AND NEED
3. Make Americans "fear" something that will not affect 99% of them ever.

Listen, I'm all for destroying ISIS and others that support terrorism. But I'm a realist. We aren't going to win this type of war. It took us a decade to understand that in Vietnam, it shouldn't take us 20 years to figure it out today.
 
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bornaneer said:
I'll have to admit......your are making some honest and logical points tonight.
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As I've stated, I'm not a "liberal" like some say. I'm left-leaning, sure. I have wild ideas. Sure. Some good, some bad. Sure. But I share some same common beliefs as you right-wingers. Race is something that really fires me up, especially when the focused is on one group over others. Same with religion. I get fired up, I admit it. However, I try to remain civil (try not to call names, etc......but some do push my buttons).
 
MountaineerWV said:
Ok, that's the big "IF" that people keep proclaiming. There's no "if" on the next rapist, child pedophile, domestic battery, drug overdose, murder, etc. etc. etc. That's a definite, it's GOING to happen. I'm not saying we ignore terrorism, but by our focus being on terrorism we are doing a few things:

1. Taking money away from other programs that would help to "Make America Great Again"
2. Giving terrorist organization more time on news, social media, etc., that they want AND NEED
3. Make Americans "fear" something that will not affect 99% of them ever.

Listen, I'm all for destroying ISIS and others that support terrorism. But I'm a realist. We aren't going to win this type of war. It took us a decade to understand that in Vietnam, it shouldn't take us 20 years to figure it out today.
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We ignored Bin Laden until 9/11 and then 3,000 Americans died. Make no mistake, ISIS and Al Qaeda want even more deaths. We are fighting crime today. Successfully in some areas not successfully in others. That battle won't stop.

Terrorism is a whole different matter. We have to consider the IF since we ignored the IF and we lost 3,000 Americans. They want to do it again, perhaps even bigger. We must focus on terrorism to stop that next IF. And we have to realize this is an asymmetrical war where just a few bad people can do enormous harm, just enormous making 9/11 look like child's play. Many on the left don't seem to recognize this threat for some reason. The world is full of very, very dangerous weapons that can kill untold numbers of people. And the terrorist will stop at nothing to get their hands on those weapons.

They have declared war, why do we not believe them?
 
MountaineerWV said:
As I've stated, I'm not a "liberal" like some say. I'm left-leaning, sure. I have wild ideas. Sure. Some good, some bad. Sure. But I share some same common beliefs as you right-wingers. Race is something that really fires me up, especially when the focused is on one group over others. Same with religion. I get fired up, I admit it. However, I try to remain civil (try not to call names, etc......but some do push my buttons).
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I understand what you are saying. It appears you think I'm what you call a "right-winger". How many 'right-wingers" that you know believe in universal health care for all,total legalization of most drugs,legal prostitution,most govt.social programs and blanket amnesty for all illegals except for those that have committed serious crimes ? I consider myself a person that believes in doing what is right and letting people live as they wish as long as they don't harm others. On the other hand I expect all of us to respect the laws we live under and also to respect the results of the electorate. Not many people on this earth have the ability to change our leadership as we do.
 
WVPATX said:
We ignored Bin Laden until 9/11 and then 3,000 Americans died. Make no mistake, ISIS and Al Qaeda want even more deaths. We are fighting crime today. Successfully in some areas not successfully in others. That battle won't stop.

Terrorism is a whole different matter. We have to consider the IF since we ignored the IF and we lost 3,000 Americans. They want to do it again, perhaps even bigger. We must focus on terrorism to stop that next IF. And we have to realize this is an asymmetrical war where just a few bad people can do enormous harm, just enormous making 9/11 look like child's play. Many on the left don't seem to recognize this threat for some reason. The world is full of very, very dangerous weapons that can kill untold numbers of people. And the terrorist will stop at nothing to get their hands on those weapons.

They have declared war, why do we not believe them?
Click to expand...

Who said "stop" fighting terrorism? I didn't. But Trump is right, it's time for the Arab nations to start picking it up and fighting it on their own soil. That would help us do what we need to do with the allocation of money to other DOMESTIC things.

I don't think we ignored anyone prior to 9/11. We just didn't do the things we perhaps should have.
 
bornaneer said:
I understand what you are saying. It appears you think I'm what you call a "right-winger". How many 'right-wingers" that you know believe in universal health care for all,total legalization of most drugs,legal prostitution,most govt.social programs and blanket amnesty for all illegals except for those that have committed serious crimes ? I consider myself a person that believes in doing what is right and letting people live as they wish as long as they don't harm others. On the other hand I expect all of us to respect the laws we live under and also to respect the results of the electorate. Not many people on this earth have the ability to change our leadership as we do.
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That's true. And that's why I say "OUR President" when referring to Trump. I didn't vote for him, but the process was done correctly and he won. (I just wish he wasn't such a moron on social media)

Like this health care bill the Senate put together, I hope the Democrats don't block it or something stupid like that. Let the Republicans take their turn, see what they have in store for America. If it succeeds, we ALL succeed. If it fails, well.....I guess the Democrats would have what they need for the 2020 election, don't you?
 
MountaineerWV said:
That's true. And that's why I say "OUR President" when referring to Trump. I didn't vote for him, but the process was done correctly and he won. (I just wish he wasn't such a moron on social media)

Like this health care bill the Senate put together, I hope the Democrats don't block it or something stupid like that. Let the Republicans take their turn, see what they have in store for America. If it succeeds, we ALL succeed. If it fails, well.....I guess the Democrats would have what they need for the 2020 election, don't you?
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Agreed.......I defend Trump because he won the election......not because I voted for him. You may have seen the many times I defended President Obama on this board for the same reason.... even though I did not vote for him and disagreed with many of the things he did. If Trump and the Repubs don't perform they will be voted out.
 
MountaineerWV said:
Who said "stop" fighting terrorism? I didn't. But Trump is right, it's time for the Arab nations to start picking it up and fighting it on their own soil. That would help us do what we need to do with the allocation of money to other DOMESTIC things.

I don't think we ignored anyone prior to 9/11. We just didn't do the things we perhaps should have.
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Bill Clinton acknowledged he had the opportunity to take out Bin Laden but did not do so. We essentially ignored him until it was too late.

I agree that Arab nations have to be heavily involved in solving terrorism. It will work no other way. But we must help lead. We have seen what happens when the U.S. is not providing leadership. Trump made a good start in Saudi Arabia. Jordan and Egypt appear willing to help as well. It's a start.

At home, we must be very, very careful. Far more careful than Europe has been. I am all in favor of a temporary ban from those 6 countries until we can be entire sure who is entering the country. And even then, there is the risk of radicalization not only of immigrants but those that live here. We can't overtax our FBI less they lose track of the radicals, as Europe has.
 
Do studies from Harvard or elsewhere on climate change count too?
 
Op2 said:
Do studies from Harvard or elsewhere on climate change count too?
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This study is extremely different than that of climate science. This is a summary of existing facts. Not an investigation in a relatively new science.
 
Boomboom521 said:
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2016/07/11/police-shootings-blacks-study/?source=dam

  1. There are flaws in the study, admitted by the author
  2. The study revealed that there most certainly is racial bias amongst police officers
  3. There are studies that contrast these results
  4. This study was printed (without pointing out racial bias found in excessive force) in the same media you claim to be insanely biased
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The Washington Post came out with similar results looking at actual data. For those of you who believe there is widespread Racism among police that seek out blacks to kill, the facts are not on your side. But I can understand anyone's confusion because the media only plays up one side of this equation.
 
DvlDog4WVU said:
It's not for a political outcome though and that's the defining difference.
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See, I think the definition of "terrorism" has, or is, changing. Do you think the modern-day terrorist care about "politics"? I don't think they do it for any political outcome anymore.
 
WVPATX said:
The Washington Post came out with similar results looking at actual data. For those of you who believe there is widespread Racism among police that seek out blacks to kill, the facts are not on your side. But I can understand anyone's confusion because the media only plays up one side of this equation.
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I think there are some racist aggressive officers, but an extreme minority. I do however think that racial profiling plays a large part in many issues today, and community relations need to be a bigger priority for police.....this issue is on the community as well as the police.
 
MountaineerWV said:
Why is it different? Because it fits your agenda?
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Because you can count police shootings. We could study the police reports. These are actual events that have happened in the past. Climate science is very new and it's all about the future.

I know what the temperature was yesterday, I do not know what the temperature is going to be 10 years from now. Not does anyone else. That is the difference.
 
Boomboom521 said:
I think there are some racist aggressive officers, but an extreme minority. I do however think that racial profiling plays a large part in many issues today, and community relations need to be a bigger priority for police.....this issue is on the community as well as the police.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with this statement with the following caveat. When police aggressively and proactively police in high crime neighborhoods, they look for activities that are suspicious to them. That is not racial profiling even though it predominately affects blacks and Hispanics.
 
MountaineerWV said:
See, I think the definition of "terrorism" has, or is, changing. Do you think the modern-day terrorist care about "politics"? I don't think they do it for any political outcome anymore.
Click to expand...
For the Muslim terrorist, religion is politics. So, yes, I think they care deeply about politics.
 
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