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ESPN "staggering subscriber losses"...

1duluth1

Sophomore
Apr 5, 2005
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N.VA (Originally- Princeton, W.V.)
Since the rush to raid conferences... and the breaking up of rivals (WVU-Pitt, Okla-Neb, TX A&M-UT)... was all driven by cable TV dollars... what happens if the model falls apart?

Does this article just mean ESPN may have to give up some contracts... but it will just get spread around to FS1, CBSsports, NBCsports, etc? Or, does this mean these shotgun marriages (MD in a midwest conference... WVU in a great plains conference... Missouri in a SE conference) won't be tenable... and conference break-ups will follow... and school reorganized into regional conferences again?
-Winter Tim

Washington Post:
Staggering subscriber losses for ESPN raise questions about the entire TV ecosystem

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...estors-really-worried/?utm_term=.9cca9ffcbc20
 
Really not that difficult to understand. Survival for relevance and $$$$$ forced schools into absurd conferences geographically and otherwise (WVU included). Too many games that are irrelevant to the casual observer, my guess even casual fan in some circumstances.
 
I'll post before I read. But I linked up another article a few weeks ago that spelled out that if the current trend continues within five years ESPN will not be able to make good on all of the contracts it is now in.

The main problem, as I see it, again, without first reading this article (and I will read it) is that the sports market is over-saturated and ESPN lead the way in doing this. The sports market has been devalued AND..... a whole bunch of people cutting their cable or not signing up for it in the first place.

This is why a couple of months ago the scuttlebutt that ESPN might try to reorganize the B12 with some other schools that get paid via streaming fees had an air of plausibility.

But guess what? Do you really need an ESPN to stream your games? Or can a conference create it's own streaming network and pocket every dollar above expenses?

In the digital age .... who freaking needs networks and cable channels when you can do everything over the Internet and the wireless network?
 
"In the digital age .... who freaking needs networks and cable channels when you can do everything over the Internet and the wireless network"?


I agree, one of several factors.
 
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Not playing regional teams has decreased my interest significantly. Don't get me wrong i still watch all the games, but wvu vs kansas isnt wvu vs sPitt, Rutgers, cuse, etc. i no longer spend a hundo every year just to talk on a message board for example.
 
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Not playing regional teams has decreased my interest significantly. .

Perhaps it was because I couldn't see as many games on TV, but in the 1980s and 90s, I also drove to games in Blacksburg, College Park, Annapolis, Louisville. We will have some opportunity for that once or twice a year with our out-of-conference scheduling, but not as much opportunity for me to drive to road games as I use to do.
-Winter Tim
 
When ESPN decided to get in bed with the SEC, Ohio State, Michigan and the ACC and shun everyone else, the major decline began.

Why should anyone in so called G5 leagues care anymore when their schools get 0 coverage?

Same for the BIg 12 and PAC 12 by and large.

People might watch a few games, but why watch sports center, game day or a host of other shows when they aren't going to cover anything relevant to you or your favorite school or sports league and only promote others.

The current farce of a playoff makes it even worse, they've just eliminated a huge chunk of potential viewers because of the farce they are trying to get people to swallow
 
When ESPN decided to get in bed with the SEC, Ohio State, Michigan and the ACC and shun everyone else, the major decline began.

Why should anyone in so called G5 leagues care anymore when their schools get 0 coverage?

Same for the BIg 12 and PAC 12 by and large.

People might watch a few games, but why watch sports center, game day or a host of other shows when they aren't going to cover anything relevant to you or your favorite school or sports league and only promote others.

The current farce of a playoff makes it even worse, they've just eliminated a huge chunk of potential viewers because of the farce they are trying to get people to swallow

I see the day when ESPN loses a lot of those shows. Maybe they drop one of their channels. But instead of a series of all day long talking head shows and slickly produced documentaries we'll see lots of rebroadcast games .... heck, Australian Rules Football may even make a comeback.
 
When ESPN decided to get in bed with the SEC, Ohio State, Michigan and the ACC and shun everyone else, the major decline began.

Why should anyone in so called G5 leagues care anymore when their schools get 0 coverage?

Same for the BIg 12 and PAC 12 by and large.

People might watch a few games, but why watch sports center, game day or a host of other shows when they aren't going to cover anything relevant to you or your favorite school or sports league and only promote others.

The current farce of a playoff makes it even worse, they've just eliminated a huge chunk of potential viewers because of the farce they are trying to get people to swallow
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There is other competition for a persons time and $$$$$ than sports.

Imo sports is in a bubble. Like the housing bubble, the tech bubble (16 years ago), the sports bubble has burst. Espn is still trying to put more $$$$$ into it to keep it going. It is not working.

As for the conference stuff, I like WVUs conference now more than ever. I will never miss all those old "rivals" that didn't bring 500 people to Mountaineer Field. Maryland - Yes, VA Tech - Yes, all the other urban city commuter schools that don't even own the market the school is named after - NO, NO, NO!
 
ESPN lost its identity when they started blurring the lines so heavy from sports to political issues. I don''t know about most of you but sports was my wonderful diversion from the stresses of life: work, bills, violence/crime, etc.

When the network started trying to be ESPN - CNN, I stopped watching. Unless West Virginia is playing on one of their channels, of course!
 
ESPN lost its identity when they started blurring the lines so heavy from sports to political issues. I don''t know about most of you but sports was my wonderful diversion from the stresses of life: work, bills, violence/crime, etc!

I definitely agree with that. Waaay too much talk about politics, social issues, and really all the stuff that used to make me want to listen to ESPN radio during the day cause it used to not EVER be talked about with sports. I don't even listen to Mike & Mike anymore cause even they went plum nuts on all that stuff and as overboard as anyone.

I now listen to very little sports radio except Finebaum. More just jump around the tune in app to find something entertaining. Listen to financial talk radio or good podcasts from inspirational people.
 
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Read another article earlier that 70% of cable channels have lost subscribers.

It's compounded for ESPN because they absolutely overpriced their product while using blackmail to keep customers (aka cable companies). They would threaten to take the entire line of ABC/Disney channels if the cable companies didn't not only keep ESPN but as many sister stations that they would eventually add.

Time to pay the piper. ....and while we'll enjoy their suffering I'm not sure this is great news for sports fans.
 
GREAT thread and every post is spot on

Actually, they aren't. The biggest error is, people keep saying ESPN is losing subscribers because of something ESPN is doing wrong. It doesn't work that way. You can't just call up your cable company and tell them you don't want ESPN. ESPN is usually part of basic cable packages. People aren't going to cancel their entire cable package just because they don't like ESPN.

The reason all this is happening is because people are cutting the cord to cable completely. When they do that, they're cutting FS1, NBCSN, and all that stuff along with ESPN. It's an industry wide problem, not just ESPN.
 
Your absolutely correct people are cutting thr cable cord because they don't want to pay for channels they don't watch who wants to pay 200 plus a month for 5 channels you might watch. What is more trouble some is the <35 demo these are prime cable cutters
 
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Actually, they aren't. The biggest error is, people keep saying ESPN is losing subscribers because of something ESPN is doing wrong. It doesn't work that way. You can't just call up your cable company and tell them you don't want ESPN. ESPN is usually part of basic cable packages. People aren't going to cancel their entire cable package just because they don't like ESPN.

The reason all this is happening is because people are cutting the cord to cable completely. When they do that, they're cutting FS1, NBCSN, and all that stuff along with ESPN. It's an industry wide problem, not just ESPN.

And the response is more affordable, trimmed down packages that cut back on the heavy sports burden that most consumers don't want.

It is an industry wide problem, but ESPN carries the highest liabilities due to their long term contracts.
 
And the response is more affordable, trimmed down packages that cut back on the heavy sports burden that most consumers don't want.

It is an industry wide problem, but ESPN carries the highest liabilities due to their long term contracts.

Here's the problem with this whole discussion. You have to take "ESPN" out of the picture. Several of the posters are implying that the only thing that will happen is that ESPN goes down (whatever that means), and other channels like FS1, NBCSN take up the slack. That's simply not going to happen. If FS1, for example, tried to swoop in and sign away all the rights that ESPN has, then FS1 is going to end up with the exact same problem.

Here is the reality. If this cord cutting trend works out the way some are predicting, then the entire landscape of sports will change, particularly in college. You won't have these massive TV contracts anymore, and you won't have virtually ever game televised, like you do now.
 
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Here's the problem with this whole discussion. You have to take "ESPN" out of the picture. Several of the posters are implying that the only thing that will happen is that ESPN goes down (whatever that means), and other channels like FS1, NBCSN take up the slack. That's simply not going to happen. If FS1, for example, tried to swoop in and sign away all the rights that ESPN has, then FS1 is going to end up with the exact same problem.

Here is the reality. If this cord cutting trend works out the way some are predicting, then the entire landscape of sports will change, particularly in college. You won't have these massive TV contracts anymore, and you won't have virtually ever game televised, like you do now.

I wouldn't care.
 
You won't need "virtually every game televised".

Within 5 years to 10 years at most, the games are gonna be streamed online. If WVU can have a production and TV crew pre Big East in 1991 to tape and show the game on local TV, then every schools games can be broadcast and streamed online.

As for the talk of fs1, NBC sports, and CBS Sports losing subscribers like espn. It is not the same. Espn-the mothership channel subscription fees are about $7 a month of the average bill. That's 1 channel. Each other espn channel you never watch is an additional $0.75 to $1 a month. FS1 is $0.60 a month by comparison, when last I did a Google search. Which network do you think is hurting more from chord cutters and the new ala carte subscriptions?

Btw FS1, NBC Sports, CBS sports, etc also haven't overbid for everything they're showing. None have created conference or school networks that are a financial disaster (except for the conference and that school in Texas that hooks em). And MLS-soccer (not talking about World Cup or even the EPL) which has rating similar to the WNBA which they also televise hasn't proven to be too fruitful either. How bout reruns of AWA rasslin and Worlds Strongest man(-not as expensive)?

These other networks don't have the over bloated budgets that the 4 letter network does. And nobody is watching their lynch pin program Sportscenter. The ratings on that show are at the lowest level in 20+ years. Anyone can go online and get a score/highlight.
 
You won't need "virtually every game televised".

Within 5 years to 10 years at most, the games are gonna be streamed online. If WVU can have a production and TV crew pre Big East in 1991 to tape and show the game on local TV, then every schools games can be broadcast and streamed online.

As for the talk of fs1, NBC sports, and CBS Sports losing subscribers like espn. It is not the same. Espn-the mothership channel subscription fees are about $7 a month of the average bill. That's 1 channel. Each other espn channel you never watch is an additional $0.75 to $1 a month. FS1 is $0.60 a month by comparison, when last I did a Google search. Which network do you think is hurting more from chord cutters and the new ala carte subscriptions?

Btw FS1, NBC Sports, CBS sports, etc also haven't overbid for everything they're showing. None have created conference or school networks that are a financial disaster (except for the conference and that school in Texas that hooks em). And MLS-soccer (not talking about World Cup or even the EPL) which has rating similar to the WNBA which they also televise hasn't proven to be too fruitful either. How bout reruns of AWA rasslin and Worlds Strongest man(-not as expensive)?

These other networks don't have the over bloated budgets that the 4 letter network does. And nobody is watching their lynch pin program Sportscenter. The ratings on that show are at the lowest level in 20+ years. Anyone can go online and get a score/highlight.

You have to deal with reality, not with make-believe.

It's not a matter of the technical ability to stream every game. The amount of money made by an individual school streaming its games will not even come close to making up for the shortfall due to cord cutting.

Yes, FS1, NBCSN and the others losing subscribers is the same. Which network is "hurting more" is completely irrelevant. The point is, none of them will be able to sustain the college sports business model as it currently is, should these cord cutting predictions become reality. The reason networks like FS1 and NBCSN don't charge the same kind of fees as ESPN is because they don't have the same type of content as ESPN. Those other networks mostly have 2nd and 3rd rate games to broadcast. Rarely do they ever have top of the line games. They charge less because they don't have good games to show. As I said, if ESPN falters, FS1 is not going to come in and take up the slack for all these billion dollar TV contracts. They won't have the money to do it.

FS1, NBCSN, CBSSN haven't overbid for anything, because they don't really have anything to bid on. They basically show low level stuff. All the good stuff is already under contract with other channels.

The other networks don't have a bloated budget, because again, they don't have good content. I'll again point out, whenever ESPN loses a subscriber, these other network do also, because cord cutters are dropping their entire cable package, not just ESPN. You live in a fantasy world if you think FS1 is going to grow while ESPN shrinks. They're all shrinking. The point of the OP's post was to ask how this was going to impact the conferences, not to dance on ESPN's grave. Well, in that case, the impact will be that the conferences (and in turn, the individual schools) won't have as much money as they do now, should these projections hold up.
 
Not here to argue. That's how you get your rocks off not me.

The stuff concerning costs is documented and can be verified with Google searhes if you actually want to find the facts. There's an article right now on yahoo about espn losing $$$$$ and the Disney stock really being affected.

Check back in 5 years and you'll see what I'm telling you is right when it comes to streaming. It is the way of fhe future and not just with sports channels.

Actually don't check back. Just go check somewhere else. Anywhere.
 
They've also lost a ton of millennials for two reasons:
1. Going to live games has become to expensive for an entire family. They haven't grown up as die hard fans.
2. Kids don't grow up watching TV games because it's too expensive.

As most of us are college grads with professional jobs, we've made the same mistake we democrats have made, we've forgotten the lower segment of the middle class. That's who filled our stadium end zones. That's who buys the sports gear. We've forgotten the masses.

I don't know that it can be fixed. ESPN will drain all the money they can and leave the sport for dead.
 
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I truly and whole heartedly believe that interest and fandom in football has peaked.
This is a really good thread. Several points, Im not feeling sorry for ESPN because they played a key role in the break up of the Big East and wanting to shut us out of a conference. Second, I also think football has peaked for the moment and in my mind its because of the bad leadership at the top of the NFL. The NFL needs a swift kick in the butt right now and it starts with players respecting the game and the people around the game. The commish is doing a poor job of holding players accountable.
 
I think the sudden drop in NFL ratings is partially due to ESPN's coverage of the league.

They've made the NFL unbearable, imo.
Also, I think ESPN over paid for college football. They played a huge role in the current system and they did it by promising gobs of money to everyone.
 
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They've also lost a ton of millennials for two reasons:
1. Going to live games has become to expensive for an entire family. They haven't grown up as die hard fans.
2. Kids don't grow up watching TV games because it's too expensive.

As most of us are college grads with professional jobs, we've made the same mistake we democrats have made, we've forgotten the lower segment of the middle class. That's who filled our stadium end zones. That's who buys the sports gear. We've forgotten the masses.

I don't know that it can be fixed. ESPN will drain all the money they can and leave the sport for dead.

You have made a great point. Many lower middle class families and fans have been priced out.
 
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In the newer digital world there will be team/conference streaming packages that fans will subscribe to. The income that a school/conference gets from streaming will be commensurate with fan interest.

You'll also be able to pay for single games from any conference if you are interested in watching.

This won't be the end of sports/football on "TV." But it's gonna be a different world than the one we have known.

But here's a real kicker .... ESPN already has Watch ESPN up and active. Much of the content is already only available to "cable" subscribers. Who wants to bet against ESPN offering Watch ESPN to individual subscribers within 12-18 months?
 
I truly and whole heartedly believe that interest and fandom in football has peaked.

It has ... and there is nothing wrong with that. But it is reality.

Boxing used to be huge. There was a time in my life when well over 50% of the people in this country could tell you who the heavy weight champion of the world was. I would be surprised if 20% know who it is these day. Now most people simply do not pay attention to boxing.

Football is still more a community event in many, many places. But it's going to be the community that determines the profitability of a team. For example ... more people would pay to watch a WV game online than a Marshall game. And an advertiser will pay more to advertise during a WV game than they would a Marshall game.

The sports market is beginning to undergo a huge correction.
 
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If you don't care, that's fine. However, it means you won't be able to watch as many game (including West Virginia), and it would be harder for these big conferences to support so many teams, and be spread out so far geographically.

Duh.

It's not my fault ESPN overwhelmed their balance sheet with enormous future liabilities.
 
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They've also lost a ton of millennials for two reasons:
1. Going to live games has become to expensive for an entire family. They haven't grown up as die hard fans.
2. Kids don't grow up watching TV games because it's too expensive.

As most of us are college grads with professional jobs, we've made the same mistake we democrats have made, we've forgotten the lower segment of the middle class. That's who filled our stadium end zones. That's who buys the sports gear. We've forgotten the masses.

I don't know that it can be fixed. ESPN will drain all the money they can and leave the sport for dead.

I mentioned this before, but over the summer I was at a family function and Netflix was being discussed. None of my younger relatives (20-26 years old) had cable or satellite TV. That's a big shift just from when I was that age, not very long ago. When we'd move into our college apartments, the first thing we'd do is setup cable.

We didn't have options, but they do.
 
Not here to argue. That's how you get your rocks off not me.

The stuff concerning costs is documented and can be verified with Google searhes if you actually want to find the facts. There's an article right now on yahoo about espn losing $$$$$ and the Disney stock really being affected.

Check back in 5 years and you'll see what I'm telling you is right when it comes to streaming. It is the way of fhe future and not just with sports channels.

Actually don't check back. Just go check somewhere else. Anywhere.

The stuff concerning cost and subscriptions can be documented, which is precisely my point. Whenever ESPN loses subscribers, FS1, NBCSN, CBSSN and all the rest lose subscribers as well.

Your point about streaming has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm talking about. That's because, unlike you and the other posters, I'm actually addressing the OP's question. He had two points:

1)Will FS1, NBCSN and others just pick up games that ESPN is currently broadcasting?

2) Does this mean these bigger conferences will be untenable?

1) Answer is no, because those channels are losing subscribers just like ESPN. They are in the same boat.

2) Possibly so, because nothing is going to be able to step in and match the TV revenue they get under the current system.

Nobody is making an argument about streaming. The point is, the same type of money is not going to be there if/when the current system collapses.

Topdecktiger always argues that consumers have a moral obligation to buy large cable packages.

Idiotic statement. See the above reply, specifically the part about addressing the OP's actual question.
 
The stuff concerning cost and subscriptions can be documented, which is precisely my point. Whenever ESPN loses subscribers, FS1, NBCSN, CBSSN and all the rest lose subscribers as well.

Your point about streaming has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm talking about. That's because, unlike you and the other posters, I'm actually addressing the OP's question. He had two points:

1)Will FS1, NBCSN and others just pick up games that ESPN is currently broadcasting?

2) Does this mean these bigger conferences will be untenable?

1) Answer is no, because those channels are losing subscribers just like ESPN. They are in the same boat.

2) Possibly so, because nothing is going to be able to step in and match the TV revenue they get under the current system.

Nobody is making an argument about streaming. The point is, the same type of money is not going to be there if/when the current system collapses.



Idiotic statement. See the above reply, specifically the part about addressing the OP's actual question.
Im trying to make this political but I think at some point the public got tired of paying CNN and MSNBC for "Fake News" so they just said heck with it.
 
Don't overlook that WVU getting $30 million to $38 million a year is coming from TV & radio coverage. If that goes away, so does WVU's $30 to $38 million a year.

There's just no free lunch. If you want to see every WVU football game on TV, someone had to pay for it.

Commercials do it. But if sponsors don't get the $$$ bump from the commercials, then they won't pay for it either.

And then you'll have to go to Mountaineer Field to see the games, as I do, although I also pay to get the road games on my TV and record the games I see in MF so I can analyze them better.

There's just no free lunch. It's all intertwined. And you're only deluding yourself if you think you can pull out one thread without affecting the entire fabric.
 
The stuff concerning cost and subscriptions can be documented, which is precisely my point. Whenever ESPN loses subscribers, FS1, NBCSN, CBSSN and all the rest lose subscribers as well.

Your point about streaming has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm talking about. That's because, unlike you and the other posters, I'm actually addressing the OP's question. He had two points:

1)Will FS1, NBCSN and others just pick up games that ESPN is currently broadcasting?

2) Does this mean these bigger conferences will be untenable?

1) Answer is no, because those channels are losing subscribers just like ESPN. They are in the same boat.

2) Possibly so, because nothing is going to be able to step in and match the TV revenue they get under the current system.

Nobody is making an argument about streaming. The point is, the same type of money is not going to be there if/when the current system collapses.



Idiotic statement. See the above reply, specifically the part about addressing the OP's actual question.

Everytime this topic is mentioned, you turn up like a bad penny and start shilling for ESPN.
 
I'm not shilling for ESPN. If you had any sort of reading comprehension skill, you would see why.

You are a shill. Why and for what reason, I do not know but you are definitely a shill for ESPN.

It's clear as day.

Your professional fate might be tied to ESPN, or cable, but that's your problem.

It's not personal, I felt the same way about Blockbuster.
 
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