Dodd: Infighting at Oklahoma on Expansion

[WVBlue]

There's infighting at Oklahoma over potential Big 12 expansion

The Oklahoma board of regents disagrees with the school president's stance on Big 12 expansion, and it could be a major issue for the Sooners.

EXCERPT:

The most strident and powerful voice in favor of Big 12 expansion has a significant opponent at his own school.

Max Weitzenhoffer, the Oklahoma board of regents chairman, told CBS Sports he will try to convince influential OU president David Boren to ditch Big 12 expansion.

"I can tell you I'm not alone," Weitzenhoffer said.

The seven-member board, which serves as the school's governing body, will meet Thursday. At that time, Weitzenhoffer said, he will seek clarification on the board's input regarding the school's vote on expansion.

At least one other regents member, Oklahoma City Thunder chairman Clay Bennett, is against expansion, Weitzenhoffer said.

LINK:

http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/theres-infighting-at-oklahoma-over-potential-big-12-expansion/

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

Weitzenhoffer is proof that a little bit of information is dangerous. He is mistaken in his belief that any additional schools immediately receive a full share of conference revenue. The conference receives a pro-rata increase in broadcast revenue for any additional schools, not the new member. Just ask WVU and TCU.

The private contract between ESPN/FoxSports likely contains a provision of veto power by the broadcasters over which particular schools would be admitted. Any additions must have overwhelming potential to add economic value surpassing their cost as a member. Broadcast stockholders like to eat too.

The two schools ESPN's Dennis Dodd indicated are the most likely candidates are located in major metropolitan areas located outside the current Big 12 broadcast footprint. The conference can also require any changes deemed necessary in athletic facilities as a condition of membership.

As part of a $500 million expenditure over the last ten years for facility improvements, Cincinnati recently finished a complete remodeling of Nippert Stadium and it is impressive. It currently seats 40k, but the school president recently stated it is expandable to 58k and they are willing to do so if necessary. Meanwhile the Bengals Paul Brown Stadium is right down the road and could accommodate 65.5k as needed.

Weitzenhoffer doesn't seem to realize that if Ohio State hadn't suffered a fluke loss to Michigan State that the Sooners would have likely been knocked out of the playoffs last year under the current format of the Big 12. Had Oklahoma suffered the same fate as Baylor and TCU did in 2014, he might be demanding expansion and a CCG.

 

[GetYaNumbersUp]

Good.

The Big 12 doesn't need any of the schools being discussed, although I'd take BYU.

 

[topdecktiger]

Weitzenhoffer is proof that a little bit of information is dangerous. He is mistaken in his belief that any additional schools immediately receive a full share of conference revenue. The conference receives a pro-rata increase in broadcast revenue for any additional schools, not the new member. Just ask WVU and TCU.

The private contract between ESPN/FoxSports likely contains a provision of veto power by the broadcasters over which particular schools would be admitted. Any additions must have overwhelming potential to add economic value surpassing their cost as a member. Broadcast stockholders like to eat too.

The two schools ESPN's Dennis Dodd indicated are the most likely candidates are located in major metropolitan areas located outside the current Big 12 broadcast footprint. The conference can also require any changes deemed necessary in athletic facilities as a condition of membership.

As part of a $500 million expenditure over the last ten years for facility improvements, Cincinnati recently finished a complete remodeling of Nippert Stadium and it is impressive. It currently seats 40k, but the school president recently stated it is expandable to 58k and they are willing to do so if necessary. Meanwhile the Bengals Paul Brown Stadium is right down the road and could accommodate 65.5k as needed.

Weitzenhoffer doesn't seem to realize that if Ohio State hadn't suffered a fluke loss to Michigan State that the Sooners would have likely been knocked out of the playoffs last year under the current format of the Big 12. Had Oklahoma suffered the same fate as Baylor and TCU did in 2014, he might be demanding expansion and a CCG.

Weitzenhoffer didn't say the schools get a full share immediately. What he said was:

"The problem with Cincinnati is ... then they start getting all this money," Weitzenhoffer said. "Then what do we do? We build up somebody we don't want to build up."

He didn't say anything about them getting a full share immediately. West Virginia and TCU were only on a 4-year plan. That's not a long time before the full shares kick in. Plus, the partial shares increase every year, so Cincinnati would not be stuck on a low figure for long.

If Ohio St had beaten Michigan St, they would have been undefeated. That alone gets them in over a 1-loss team, regardless of any conference issues.

 

[skygusty]

Weitzenhoffer didn't say the schools get a full share immediately. What he said was:

"The problem with Cincinnati is ... then they start getting all this money," Weitzenhoffer said. "Then what do we do? We build up somebody we don't want to build up."

Someone explain to me WTF he is talking about. Why would you not want to build up a new conference member? This is one of the most ignorant statements to argue against expansion I have heard. He doesn't want a school added that could be competitive down the road? I don't particularly want to expand but if they must, I want them to add schools that at least have potential to turn into games that mean something, and that people will want to attend and watch. Does he just have this problem with Cincinnati or does he feel the same way about Memphis, UCF, UCONN and Colorado State? Bizarre.

 

[Buckaineer]

If you are a WVU fan or the fan of most schools in the BIG 12 this is very bad news.

Hopefully Boren can sit down with his board and explain all the details so they understand better what the conference is faced with and what they are trying to accomplish.

This seems to be the modus operandi however. Gee and the AD better start preparing WVU now-this conference is going to be killed by outside influences coveting OU and UT. The ACC may have one slot and the SEC may as well but neither are a given. Hope those of you who claim to be Mountaineer fans are happy for fighting against WVU and the BIG 12 while there was a chance--now you better fight to keep WVU out of the AAC in a few years or WVU's athletics are dead. Its just a matter of time now unfortunately. Unless Boren can rationalize with these people its over.

 

[CAJUNEER]

Someone explain to me WTF he is talking about. Why would you not want to build up a new conference member? This is one of the most ignorant statements to argue against expansion I have heard. He doesn't want a school added that could be competitive down the road? I don't particularly want to expand but if they must, I want them to add schools that at least have potential to turn into games that mean something, and that people will want to attend and watch. Does he just have this problem with Cincinnati or does he feel the same way about Memphis, UCF, UCONN and Colorado State? Bizarre.

He wants a member that adds value immediately not one that dilutes value.

 

[Buckaineer]

He wants a member that adds value immediately not one that dilutes value.

There are NO P5 schools available and there will not be-- and he is just dismissing the schools that are without looking carefully into the matter.

 

[CAJUNEER]

There are NO P5 schools available and there will not be-- and he is just dismissing the schools that are without looking carefully into the matter.

Doubt he hasn't looked into it. I think he's thinking about life after 2025.

 

[Buckaineer]

Doubt he hasn't looked into it. I think he's thinking about life after 2025.

I think outside influences not wanting to do anything called him up, but he clearly hasn't seen the details from what he is saying. Didn't even mention a conference network at all and that is the primary revenue generator that would have gotten the conference on par long term with the others.

Now its time for WVU to go to work for itself. 7 years at most left with this one and that may be a stretch.

If there's any out clauses in the grant of rights its probably time to excercise that because its clear OU and UT are gone now as soon as possible.

 

[3xWVUenginEER]

Hopefully this puts an end to this ridiculous idea of expanding with urban city commuter schools (or a women's basketball school in Stohrs) that do not fit culturally or fanwise with the Big XII and greatly dilutes the football SOS and season ticket value.

 

[CAJUNEER]

I think outside influences not wanting to do anything called him up, but he clearly hasn't seen the details from what he is saying. Didn't even mention a conference network at all and that is the primary revenue generator that would have gotten the conference on par long term with the others.

Now its time for WVU to go to work for itself. 7 years at most left with this one and that may be a stretch.

If there's any out clauses in the grant of rights its probably time to excercise that because its clear OU and UT are gone now as soon as possible.

Expansion is not necessary for a conference network. In fact Weitzenhoffer probably has data suggesting the value of adding Cincy is less than the cost of adding.

But WVU should be sure when the GOR runs out the facilities are better than any in the ACC and the programs are running stronger than ever.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

Good.

The Big 12 doesn't need any of the schools being discussed, although I'd take BYU.

I saw that one coming.

 

[Buckaineer]

WVU will be lucky if the conference lasts until the end of the grant of rights at this point.

Its clear OU and UT -the people running them, are going to leave asap. Everyone can't just sit around for the next 9 years waiting for collapse, so barring a miracle, those who can must act as swiftly as possible.

One things for sure the other conferences are not just going to sit around. Wouldn't be completely surprised if OU doesn't have some means to get out before the Big Ten signs its contracts. There is still time for that --but they aren't sitting around for 9 years.

 

[Buckaineer]

Expansion is not necessary for a conference network. In fact Weitzenhoffer probably has data suggesting the value of adding Cincy is less than the cost of adding.

But WVU should be sure when the GOR runs out the facilities are better than any in the ACC and the programs are running stronger than ever.

There isn't enough inventory to have a conference network without expansion. Unless you think you can put 10 football games on when the Big Ten has 40 and the SEC 45. Not feasible.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

Weitzenhoffer didn't say the schools get a full share immediately. What he said was:

"The problem with Cincinnati is ... then they start getting all this money," Weitzenhoffer said. "Then what do we do? We build up somebody we don't want to build up."

He didn't say anything about them getting a full share immediately. West Virginia and TCU were only on a 4-year plan. That's not a long time before the full shares kick in. Plus, the partial shares increase every year, so Cincinnati would not be stuck on a low figure for long.

If Ohio St had beaten Michigan St, they would have been undefeated. That alone gets them in over a 1-loss team, regardless of any conference issues.

That one too! No substantive debate, just generic criticism of anything a WVU fan says or the way they worded it. Typical.

 

[Buckaineer]

That one too! No substantive debate, just generic criticism of anything a WVU fan says or the way they worded it. Typical.

What do you think? Any out clauses?

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

He wants a member that adds value immediately not one that dilutes value.

I guess he wants someone that can immediately step in and dominate his Sooners. Not quite what the other conferences did while expanding was it? Rutgers and Maryland diluted the hell out of the B1G football prowess, but there are other reasons why they were taken. It's called media market, an area the Big 12 is severely handicapped in outside of Texas.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

What do you think? Any out clauses?

No, not without a very long and expensive court battle. Too much time left in the contract to settle.

 

[MikeRafone]

So the sky is falling today, eh?

 

[Buckaineer]

No, not without a very long and expensive court battle. Too much time left in the contract to settle.

No, not without a very long and expensive court battle. Too much time left in the contract to settle.

I have a feeling that OU is going to try to challenge that prior to the Big Ten signing their agreements. If not I see the strategic placement of the Big Ten's contracts in 2023, just ahead of the Pac 12's in 2024 as a problem. The only thing the failing Pac 12 can do to gain revenues to try to keep up with the Big Ten is get BIG 12 schools. But they aren't strong enough financially to do that. Enter the Big Ten which will poach schools in 2023--or prevent the BIG 12 from getting new contracts two years later by getting OU to announce they are leaving--then the pac is able to pick up what they need.

That will leave WVU in a bad situation. There are a few scenarios where things can go one way or another, but WVU, Baylor, KSU and ISU are in the worst position going forward.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

Seems to me there is a little frustration in the Oklahoma BOR regarding Boren not sharing information. Perhaps it's time Max Weitzenhoffer and Boren sat down over a beer and discussed all of the details of the studies.

Boren must have been blowing him off over the details. He apparently only has what he's read in the press.

 

[CAJUNEER]

There isn't enough inventory to have a conference network without expansion. Unless you think you can put 10 football games on when the Big Ten has 40 and the SEC 45. Not feasible.

Yes 10 teams is enough for a network.

 

[Buckaineer]

Seems to me there is a little frustration in the Oklahoma BOR regarding Boren not sharing information. Perhaps it's time Max Weitzenhoffer and Boren sat down over a beer and discussed all of the details of the studies.

Boren must have been blowing him off over the details. He apparently only has what he's read in the press.

He seems pretty convinved by somebody else (Texas) that this is a bad idea. Maybe Boren can talk sense into him but doubtful. The outside voices are too loud and relentless. They've broken into OUs BOG now, no getting rid of that. Its a shame he hasn't informed them about all of this to this point.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

Everyone has a right to their opinions, fears and hopes but it will not have any effect on what happens will it? The only thing I can assure anyone of is that the sky is not falling. Any one or all of us may die tonight but the sky will still be there and so will the upcoming meetings and votes in the Big 12. I wasn't invited to participate and that really pisses me off. All I can do is opine, conjecture and wait.

 

[Buckaineer]

Yes 10 teams is enough for a network.

No its not. You cannot sell a network with 10 football games on it and no one is going to invest the millions of $$ needed for a network with 10 football games.

Every network in existence has at least 34 games on it--theres a reason for that.

 

[Buckaineer]

Everyone has a right to their opinions, fears and hopes but it will not have any effect on what happens will it? The only thing I can assure anyone of is that the sky is not falling. Any one or all of us may die tonight but the sky will still be there and so will the upcoming meetings and votes in the Big 12. I wasn't invited to participate and that really pisses me off. All I can do is opine, conjecture and wait.

The sky isn't falling, but WVU must position itself for the future--we've all seen this movie before.

 

[topdecktiger]

That one too! No substantive debate, just generic criticism of anything a WVU fan says or the way they worded it. Typical.

It is substantive, and it's not generic criticism. What you said was simply inaccurate. Weitzenhoffer simply did not say the new schools were getting full shares immediately. You twisted around what he said. You can't have a substantive debate doing that.

 

[Woody in Helvetia]

There's infighting at Oklahoma over potential Big 12 expansion

The Oklahoma board of regents disagrees with the school president's stance on Big 12 expansion, and it could be a major issue for the Sooners.

EXCERPT:

The most strident and powerful voice in favor of Big 12 expansion has a significant opponent at his own school.

Max Weitzenhoffer, the Oklahoma board of regents chairman, told CBS Sports he will try to convince influential OU president David Boren to ditch Big 12 expansion.

"I can tell you I'm not alone," Weitzenhoffer said.

The seven-member board, which serves as the school's governing body, will meet Thursday. At that time, Weitzenhoffer said, he will seek clarification on the board's input regarding the school's vote on expansion.

At least one other regents member, Oklahoma City Thunder chairman Clay Bennett, is against expansion, Weitzenhoffer said.

LINK:

http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/theres-infighting-at-oklahoma-over-potential-big-12-expansion/

Weitzenhoffer either knows that Oklahoma has a home wrapped in either the SEC or the B10 - or he does not have a clue to the true workings of college football.

 

[CAJUNEER]

No its not. You cannot sell a network with 10 football games on it and no one is going to invest the millions of $$ needed for a network with 10 football games.

Every network in existence has at least 34 games on it--theres a reason for that.

I think you need to reexamine your numbers.

 

[CAJUNEER]

Weitzenhoffer either knows that Oklahoma has a home wrapped in either the SEC or the B10 - or he does not have a clue to the true workings of college football.

Or he just wants the best possible positioning for OU when GOR runs out.

 

[topdecktiger]

No its not. You cannot sell a network with 10 football games on it and no one is going to invest the millions of $$ needed for a network with 10 football games.

Every network in existence has at least 34 games on it--theres a reason for that.

I'm not in complete disagreement with you, but you don't have this exactly right. The Big 12 is only limited to 10 games if they either A) try to start a network themselves, or B) partner with someone other than ESPN or Fox. The Big 12 certainly could partner with ESPN, for example, and use some of the content currently under contract for a network.

That said, since the rights are split between ESPN and Fox, it's debatable whether there is enough content with either one for a network. Plus, there is the whole LHN thing.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

The sky isn't falling, but WVU must position itself for the future--we've all seen this movie before.

Can you tell me anything else WVU can do to position itself for the future? Remodeling and building new facilities as fast as contractors can do them, putting more players in the NFL than anyone in the conference besides Oklahoma, recruiting their asses off. They have also been enhancing academics, especially in the area of research. What else can they do except start winning a little more?

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

Weitzenhoffer either knows that Oklahoma has a home wrapped in either the SEC or the B10 - or he does not have a clue to the true workings of college football.

Woody, I'll take what's behind door #2 here. He seems very frustrated and should not have gone public with an internal disagreement. Weitzenhoffer also said and I quote, he is "very close friends" with Boren. He just proved that to be a lie. Friends do not publicly undermine each other like that.

 

[Buckaineer]

Can you tell me anything else WVU can do to position itself for the future? Remodeling and building new facilities as fast as contractors can do them, putting more players in the NFL than anyone in the conference besides Oklahoma, recruiting their asses off. They have also been enhancing academics, especially in the area of research. What else can they do except start winning a little more?

If I was in charge I would try to position WVU like PSU or OSU as quickly as possible. Use some branch campuses for student entering with lower Sats and Acts. Continue to build research.

They've got to start winning quickly, because that's what got WVU into the BIG 12. Winning brings better tv slots and better tv ratings and expansion really cares about tv ratings. Conferences like teams that win .

Also make good friends with the network partners.

The competition will be fierce the next go around but it is coming. Far too many pushing for it and far too many that just don't care enough or are afraid to stop them.

 

[Charleston Mountie]

Woody, I'll take what's behind door #2 here. He seems very frustrated and should not have gone public with an internal disagreement. Weitzenhoffer also said and I quote, he is "very close friends" with Boren. He just proved that to be a lie. Friends do not publicly undermine each other like that.

Someone involved in something like this only goes public before it is revealed as a package because they are in the minority and are losing the fight internally. I think the term is sour grapes.

This is a lot about nothing.

 

[Orlaco]

....and suddenly the conference is all but dissolved.

Just like that.

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There was a time I'd tune in to daytime soaps but with all the over dramatic emotional (certainly not based on reason) posts in our forums who really needs a tv? Don't get me wrong...it's no Luke, Laura, and a weather machine but this stuff is pretty good.

 

[3xWVUenginEER]

....and suddenly the conference is all but dissolved.

Just like that.

----------

There was a time I'd tune in to daytime soaps but with all the over dramatic emotional (certainly not based on reason) posts in our forums who really needs a tv? Don't get me wrong...it's no Luke, Laura, and a weather machine but this stuff is pretty good.

OH NO THE WORLD IS ENDING!!!!
AGAIN!!!

AND IT'S THE OFF SEASON!!!!

What will we do?

 

[skygusty]

How many of you guys wear knickers and how many of them are in a twist? This has NEVER been in your control and it is also far from over. Outside forces, right. The Illuminati probably. Now you are going to blame the invisible conspiracy if you don't get what you want. The forces determining the outcome are entirely internal and they are named Texas and Oklahoma. Same as it ever was and it was never going to be simple.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

OH NO THE WORLD IS ENDING!!!!
AGAIN!!!

AND IT'S THE OFF SEASON!!!!

What will we do?

Exactly what we're doing, as foolish as it is.