Big 12's Bowlsby on Conference Expansion

[WVex-pat in GA]

The Big 12 in my mind is a power 5 conference, that said Bayor, TCU are the top teams of this conference. My question is why not BYU add them in and stay at 11 teams. I am fearful the same thing will happen again this year, either TCU or Baylor will lose and than at the end both are tied how will the big 12 handle it this time? This college playoff is still new and I am just saying the PAC 12 will be out not Big 12

Big 12 changed the rules to declare a champion over the off season, tie breakers now instituted like they should have been; one true champion. Unless the PAC 12 champ is a multi-loss one, they won't be left out. My money is on the ACC to stay at home this year unless they have an undefeated champ nationally ranked in the top 3. I'm not sure that will happen with this year's group from the ACC.

 

[Op2]

I honestly don't understand the "expand for expansions sake" mentality of some. Why? Expanding doesn't systematically help the Big 12 make the playoff. Some years, like last year, it would help having a conference title game, but other years it would hurt.

IMO there is no school even remotely strong enough to consider adding (amongst the schools that would agree to join I mean). Add Cincinnati to the Big 12? Are you kidding me? Do you think that would improve either Big 12 finances or Big 12 reputation? I sure don't.

 

[EEResistable]

Everyone is so gung ho to expand but it screws us. We would end up in the North playing the crap schools and not Oklahoma and Texas every year.

 

[LSUTigersRoar]

Texas is not that good, I can understand OKLA but Texas?? No not trashing Texas just saying in general. WVU in the Big 12 your switch has not been easy either, I guess as fans of WVU you want the 10 round robin like it is now, although consider the real factor this season. Baylor and TCU may be Big 12 saving grace this year for the College Playoffs, just consider this TCU beats Baylor and than Baylor and TCU both lose to OLKA with both teams with a one loss. All other teams have a championship game to played still. I am only saying I think soon the Big 12 will be forced to expand to 12 min to stay in The play off system. BYU does bring fans only thing is BYU will not play on Sunday at all that is a headache right there. Here is a team how about southern Miss they have fans with BYU just throwing this out

 

[skygusty]

Texas is not that good, I can understand OKLA but Texas?? No not trashing Texas just saying in general. WVU in the Big 12 your switch has not been easy either, I guess as fans of WVU you want the 10 round robin like it is now, although consider the real factor this season. Baylor and TCU may be Big 12 saving grace this year for the College Playoffs, just consider this TCU beats Baylor and than Baylor and TCU both lose to OLKA with both teams with a one loss. All other teams have a championship game to played still. I am only saying I think soon the Big 12 will be forced to expand to 12 min to stay in The play off system. BYU does bring fans only thing is BYU will not play on Sunday at all that is a headache right there. Here is a team how about southern Miss they have fans with BYU just throwing this out

Why don't you worry warts throw out all the scenarios in which other conferences miss the playoffs? There are dozens of them. Bottom line, a team from the Big12 probably needs to run the table or be the only 1 loss team in the conference and then win the whole damn thing. That would stop all the tooth gnashing. I think there is an 80% chance that a team from the Big12 is in every year and a 25% chance that they win the whole thing out of a 10 team conference. What don't you people get about the fact that if the Big12 goes to 12 and has a championship - there are still only 4 slots for 5 major conferences? Now I will concede this - i think that the other major conferences, by virtue of having divisions, do not play as tough a schedule as the Big12 Round Robin. I think it is a LOT easier for Florida State to have a great record because they play a lot of teams that aren't that good, same for Alabama, same for Ohio State. They have a few big games and a lot of games that are frankly easy. Maybe we should be looking for teams that could tick off a huge number of TV sets but simply suck at playing football. Add a couple of bottom feeders that could never rise above conference doormat. What we lose in revenue and fan interest we make up for by providing our conference champion an easier path to the playoffs.

 

[doneagain]

Texas is not that good, I can understand OKLA but Texas?? No not trashing Texas just saying in general. WVU in the Big 12 your switch has not been easy either, I guess as fans of WVU you want the 10 round robin like it is now, although consider the real factor this season. Baylor and TCU may be Big 12 saving grace this year for the College Playoffs, just consider this TCU beats Baylor and than Baylor and TCU both lose to OLKA with both teams with a one loss. All other teams have a championship game to played still. I am only saying I think soon the Big 12 will be forced to expand to 12 min to stay in The play off system. BYU does bring fans only thing is BYU will not play on Sunday at all that is a headache right there. Here is a team how about southern Miss they have fans with BYU just throwing this out

Southern Miss averages about 25,000 fans a game and has no TV market. They are not even second fiddle in their state.

I honestly don't understand the "expand for expansions sake" mentality of some. Why? Expanding doesn't systematically help the Big 12 make the playoff. Some years, like last year, it would help having a conference title game, but other years it would hurt.

IMO there is no school even remotely strong enough to consider adding (amongst the schools that would agree to join I mean). Add Cincinnati to the Big 12? Are you kidding me? Do you think that would improve either Big 12 finances or Big 12 reputation? I sure don't.

I agree on Cincy and all the other also rans. I don't know the right answer, and all I have are opinions.

However, we have been down the "sit and wait road" before and it was called the Big East. Other conferences will continue to come after Texas and Oklahoma. Sooner Admins have already publicly stated they are not content to stay at 10 as they feel it puts us (read: THEM) at a disadvantage.

I have seen this movie and I don't like how it ends. And the rumored sequel sounds even worse.

To say it is expanding for expansion's sake is a gross oversimplification of the situation at hand. Expanding may not solve anything, but doing nothing will absolutely solve nothing.

The B12 lost 4 teams before and added 2 to get back to 10. If the P12 does one day lure Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma & Oklahoma State away, I would rather have 8 remaining teams that have been together for 6-7 years than to have 6 remaining teams and have to look desperate by trying to gain teams while looking like a sinking ship.

If we expand now, it is because we choose to do it and not because we have no choice but to in order to survive. If we wait 10 years down to road to see what happens after the grant of rights expires, we may be scrambling to add teams to try and resuscitate the league after losing our heavy hitters.

You bring in BYU and Boise now, 10 years from now people will be looking at them as any other power 5 team. We wait to lose teams to bring them in, and it looks like we are relying on mid-majors to bail us out.

For examples, look at Louisville and Utah. It was not that long ago they were in the MWC and CUSA. No one really thinks about that now.

 

[CT Mountaineer]

Southern Miss averages about 25,000 fans a game and has no TV market. They are not even second fiddle in their state.



I agree on Cincy and all the other also rans. I don't know the right answer, and all I have are opinions.

However, we have been down the "sit and wait road" before and it was called the Big East. Other conferences will continue to come after Texas and Oklahoma. Sooner Admins have already publicly stated they are not content to stay at 10 as they feel it puts us (read: THEM) at a disadvantage.

I have seen this movie and I don't like how it ends. And the rumored sequel sounds even worse.

To say it is expanding for expansion's sake is a gross oversimplification of the situation at hand. Expanding may not solve anything, but doing nothing will absolutely solve nothing.

The B12 lost 4 teams before and added 2 to get back to 10. If the P12 does one day lure Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma & Oklahoma State away, I would rather have 8 remaining teams that have been together for 6-7 years than to have 6 remaining teams and have to look desperate by trying to gain teams while looking like a sinking ship.

If we expand now, it is because we choose to do it and not because we have no choice but to in order to survive. If we wait 10 years down to road to see what happens after the grant of rights expires, we may be scrambling to add teams to try and resuscitate the league after losing our heavy hitters.

You bring in BYU and Boise now, 10 years from now people will be looking at them as any other power 5 team. We wait to lose teams to bring them in, and it looks like we are relying on mid-majors to bail us out.

For examples, look at Louisville and Utah. It was not that long ago they were in the MWC and CUSA. No one really thinks about that now.

Every conference has power brokers that really control things like this. The top 2 or three programs dictate policy, because everyone else is afraid to stand up to them
Would the B1G expand if Ohio State or Michigan said no? Of course not. The SEC isn't going to add anybody unless Alabama and Florida agree to it, and the XII won't be adding anybody unless Texas gives the green light. It really is that simple. Does that make us vulnerable if Texas somehow decides it can make more money elsewhere? Sure it does, but they seem quite content to be the big fish in a Texas centric league. I don't think anybody is going to alienate them.

 

[LSUTigersRoar]

I agree Big 12 has to watch the bottom line. Although, at some point money will come into play sooner or latter. I think any team like BYU or Boise St would jump at the Big 12 offer. Boise St has been ranked and won a BCS bowl and brings bowls with them. BYU has a fan base and only problem with BYU in sports they will not play on Sun, so that is a headache. I understand you guys saying why add a low LVL team to add teams, and I aslo get teams in The Big 12 only split money 10 ways not 12. This Championship game may be over ratted nonheless The Big 12 is happy and Texas is happy that is what matters. Guys I was just throwing out ideas, Big 12 with WVU and TCU was a smart move. Good luck the rest of way GO LSU!!

 

[Op2]

Southern Miss averages about 25,000 fans a game and has no TV market. They are not even second fiddle in their state.



I agree on Cincy and all the other also rans. I don't know the right answer, and all I have are opinions.

However, we have been down the "sit and wait road" before and it was called the Big East. Other conferences will continue to come after Texas and Oklahoma. Sooner Admins have already publicly stated they are not content to stay at 10 as they feel it puts us (read: THEM) at a disadvantage.

I have seen this movie and I don't like how it ends. And the rumored sequel sounds even worse.

To say it is expanding for expansion's sake is a gross oversimplification of the situation at hand. Expanding may not solve anything, but doing nothing will absolutely solve nothing.

The B12 lost 4 teams before and added 2 to get back to 10. If the P12 does one day lure Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma & Oklahoma State away, I would rather have 8 remaining teams that have been together for 6-7 years than to have 6 remaining teams and have to look desperate by trying to gain teams while looking like a sinking ship.

If we expand now, it is because we choose to do it and not because we have no choice but to in order to survive. If we wait 10 years down to road to see what happens after the grant of rights expires, we may be scrambling to add teams to try and resuscitate the league after losing our heavy hitters.

You bring in BYU and Boise now, 10 years from now people will be looking at them as any other power 5 team. We wait to lose teams to bring them in, and it looks like we are relying on mid-majors to bail us out.

For examples, look at Louisville and Utah. It was not that long ago they were in the MWC and CUSA. No one really thinks about that now.

Well that gets to the question, does Texas and Oklahoma want to expand? I would think not but you seem to think otherwise. If Texas and Oklahoma were strongly in favor of expansion then I'd tend to go along to please them but I don't see why they'd want expansion.

 

[Charleston Mountie]

What Oklahoma wants, indeed what any other member of the Big12 wants does not really matter on this as Texas has the only opinion on expansion that matters - just how it is. If Texas wants to expand, the Big12 expands, if they don't, we don't. Simple as that.

 

[CT Mountaineer]

What Oklahoma wants, indeed what any other member of the Big12 wants does not really matter on this as Texas has the only opinion on expansion that matters - just how it is. If Texas wants to expand, the Big12 expands, if they don't, we don't. Simple as that.

Indeed, the Texas program is so large and strong its budget dwarfs every other program in the country, including Alabama, Ohio State, and Notre Dame. They would be the power broker in any league.

 

[skygusty]

Indeed, the Texas program is so large and strong its budget dwarfs every other program in the country, including Alabama, Ohio State, and Notre Dame. They would be the power broker in any league.

Texas needs to have a little more success on the field to truly be the big dog, but yeah, they carry the big stick.

 

[WVex-pat in GA]

This discussion came up over the weekend here in Atlanta on one of the local CFB programs on radio. Very savvy guys were talking about possible play off scenarios and mentioned that the problem with the B12 was that the front runners, Baylor and TCU, don't have the recognition of a Texas, OU or OK St. Offered that with Baylor or TCU as the choice that B12 gets left out again.

Speculation was that a CG validates a Baylor or TCU more than the current situation.

Just saying.

 

[skygusty]

This discussion came up over the weekend here in Atlanta on one of the local CFB programs on radio. Very savvy guys were talking about possible play off scenarios and mentioned that the problem with the B12 was that the front runners, Baylor and TCU, don't have the recognition of a Texas, OU or OK St. Offered that with Baylor or TCU as the choice that B12 gets left out again.

Speculation was that a CG validates a Baylor or TCU more than the current situation.

Just saying.

Talking heads will find a way to justify anything. They would argue that two loss teams from the SEC and Big10 would beat out an undefeated TCU or Baylor. Just because they say sh#t doesn't mean they know sh#t.

 

[WVex-pat in GA]

Got it, and don't really disagree. But if the lowly of the low local talking head feels this way can the "committee" be far behind? tOSU lost to VT at home and came out as National Champs and only because of their performance in the B1G CG.

 

[Charleston Mountie]

"...only with their performance in the B1G CG..." combined with the lack of one for either TCU or Baylor, keeping them both out.

 

[TexomaSooner49]

I'm with you. Give me BYU and one other quality team, preferably east of the Mississippi. I think BYU is going to see the light after this year that they need a conference soon - the rest of their schedule is CUSA-like. I'd have been OK if we'd had also taken BYU and Louisville when they added us and TCU.

I've seen a lot of good points made on this subject in this thread, and I agree with a lot of them. The Big-12 definitely does not need to expand if it means adding a couple of schools that will never add to the 'value', (fiscal or prestige), of the conference. I do consider the Big-12 fortunate to get a school like West Virginia, especially when it seemed a large percentage of the nation's sports media were predicting the conference to fold. I, like some other posters, think we missed the boat by not trying very hard to get Louisville at the same time before the ACC grabbed them as it would have added greatly to the Big-12 basketball image, (as did West Virginia).

Currently I see no readily available school out there that would definitely benefit the Big-12 except for BYU. I believe with their nationwide Morman fan-base and their excellent overall sports program BYU would more than pull their own weight, money-wise and prestige-wise, in our conference. The Big-12 did have talks with that school a few years back but at that time they were insisting upon a few undesirable stipulations beneficial only to them before they would join the league, and the B-12 broke off the talks. It appears that BYU has since changed their minds about their insisted stipulations and would probably jump at the chance to become a member.

The main problem with taking BYU in, besides the big increase in travel time and distance it would mean for current Big-12 members especially West Virginia, is finding a suitable companion-team to add along with them. It seems odd or unlikely that the conference would want to expand to 11 members, although it might be the best thing to do at this time.

btw, good luck in the future, but please not too much luck this coming Saturday.

 

[CT Mountaineer]

I've seen a lot of good points made on this subject in this thread, and I agree with a lot of them. The Big-12 definitely does not need to expand if it means adding a couple of schools that will never add to the 'value', (fiscal or prestige), of the conference. I do consider the Big-12 fortunate to get a school like West Virginia, especially when it seemed a large percentage of the nation's sports media were predicting the conference to fold. I, like some other posters, think we missed the boat by not trying very hard to get Louisville at the same time before the ACC grabbed them as it would have added greatly to the Big-12 basketball image, (as did West Virginia).

Currently I see no readily available school out there that would definitely benefit the Big-12 except for BYU. I believe with their nationwide Morman fan-base and their excellent overall sports program BYU would more than pull their own weight, money-wise and prestige-wise, in our conference. The Big-12 did have talks with that school a few years back but at that time they were insisting upon a few undesirable stipulations beneficial only to them before they would join the league, and the B-12 broke off the talks. It appears that BYU has since changed their minds about their insisted stipulations and would probably jump at the chance to become a member.

The main problem with taking BYU in, besides the big increase in travel time and distance it would mean for current Big-12 members especially West Virginia, is finding a suitable companion-team to add along with them. It seems odd or unlikely that the conference would want to expand to 11 members, although it might be the best thing to do at this time.

btw, good luck in the future, but please not too much luck this coming Saturday.

There really isn't much difference between Louisville and Cincy. Both are the second programs in their respective states... U Kentucky in Kentucky and Ohio State in Ohio.
One advantage to Cincy is it brings a larger market than does Louisville. Louisville's football program is better developed at this time (a fairly recent development) but in a Power 5 league Cincy would catch up to them. Ohio, with 10 million residents, can support 2 Power 5 programs. Also, in my opinion, Cincy is a better college sports venue than Louisville.