Your butt opening is immense.
How utterly typical of you as the board's Hypocrite-in-Chief, though: All context is thrown out the window and buried when it supports Briles, but it's the ONLY thing you want to talk about when it supports Uncle Dana.
![[laughing]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/laugh.r191677.gif "Laughing [laughing]")
Baylor trots out one QB after another...
- Thread starter doctom4
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How utterly typical of you as the board's Hypocrite-in-Chief, though: All context is thrown out the window and buried when it supports Briles, but it's the ONLY thing you want to talk about when it supports Uncle Dana.
Penalties, turnovers = mistakes on the field by players. WVU isn't coaching players to make mistakes. WVU needs better players that understand the level of competition they face.
"Lack of attention to detail"? in regards to what exactly.
Special teams blunders? WVU has had some of the best kicking its ever had under Holgorsen's staff. Kickoff covereage has improved and so has fielding punts/kicks.
WVU isn't the only school in the country that makes mistakes, even #1 Ohio State has made numerous turnovers and had lots of penalties. Sometimes however, the level of competition being played plays a part in wins/losses--and there isn't a team in the country that has faced a more difficult slate of teams through October.
Holgorsen is already a winning coach in BCS and P5 leagues btw. Already has a major bowl win under his watch.
WVU isn't going to magically be better if he leaves.
Not sure what you are talking about here. Holgersen went 10-3 in his first season and Briles went 4-8. Holgorsen won a BCS bowl in historical fashion against a heavily favored Clemson. Briles-no bowl. The next two seasons each were 4-8 and 7-6, just in reverse. Sounds like you just don't want to accept the truth because it doesn't fit your agenda.
No shit they aren't "coaching them to make mistakes" but it's plainly obvious that they aren't being well coached NOT to make mistakes. WVU should have good enough players that know how to hold on to a football or not commit personal fouls.
I'll agree that WVU needs better players, but it is Dana's job to get them and if he can't then find someone that can. Although I will also say that Dana's teams have blown many Big 12 games because of poor coaching and lack of preparation. The Okie State (2015), Texas (2014), KU, ISU, TT (2013) losses had nothing to do with talent disparities.
2011 - top 5 QB, top 20 offense
2012 - top 5 QB, top 20 offense
2014 - top 25 QB (top 10 if uninjured), top 20 offense
but because we're struggling at times right now....................................... our QB play and offense, historically under Dana, has sucked....
had WVU pulled out the victory at home against OSU, most of this crap littering the boards wouldn't exist. 1 point causes the sky to fall in Mountaineer Nation.
2012 - top 5 QB, top 20 offense
2014 - top 25 QB (top 10 if uninjured), top 20 offense
but because we're struggling at times right now....................................... our QB play and offense, historically under Dana, has sucked....
had WVU pulled out the victory at home against OSU, most of this crap littering the boards wouldn't exist. 1 point causes the sky to fall in Mountaineer Nation.
Yes it would. They'd say, "we shouldn't need overtime to beat a top 20 OSU team, this is an embarrassment!".
And when Holgorsen was thrust into the HC position at WVU it had dropped continuously for three straight seasons after the best run in program history. Depth at every position was a huge issue. Immediately Holgorsen did better with the same players than was attainable by the previous staff and took an underated team into a BCS bowl and put WVU back on the map after three years being out of the rankings and losing to Colorado and ECU and the like.
Then-somethhing you continue to ignore--Holgorsen had to take a team that struggled to win the diminished Big East and play all new teams in all new venues. He had a QB coach leave, an O Coord leave, A D coord leave. Huge staff turnover nearly every year.
At the same time-since he accepted the job and was thrust in early--Holgorsen has been under constant attack by malcontents who have both smeared him publicly and made his job recruiting players (and coaches) to the Mountaineers much more difficult.
If some numbskulls would get out of the way--no telling what might be achieved. Until that happens, we may never see.
Yes, I can see now that you have no idea.
Your claim: "Briles went 4-8, 4-8, and 7-6 prior to getting things going with RGIII btw. If he were at WVU he'd have been booted before any possible success."
What I pointed out was 2 things:
A) You made a false equivalency that the situation at Baylor when Briles was hired was remotely similar to the situation at WVU when Holgorsen was hired. That is clearly untrue on its face. Briles inherited a laughingstock program with 12 consecutive losing seasons and 14 consecutive bowl-less seasons that had to be rebuilt from scratch. Holgorsen inherited a respectable program that had just enjoyed 9 consecutive winning seasons--which needed some improvement, but not a complete rebuild.
B) Your second sentence is predicated solely on the false equivalency and yet is still factually false even if the false equivalency were true. WVU would never have fired a guy after 3 years if the program needed to be completely rebuilt. How do I know? Because Holgorsen has already been coach at WVU longer than that even though he hasn't had any significant success in the new conference
Unfortunately, no. It's just that you did not understand the truth to which I was referring. Two coaches can have a 10-win, 7-win, and 4-win season and yet those achievements may not even be close to the same thing. Winning 4, then 7, then 10 is not at all similar to winning 10, then 7, then 4.
Wow, I never realized wanting to win was an "agenda."
Everyone knows that it is next to impossible compete, yet alone win with a freshman back up QB.....there just isn't enough snaps or time to have him ready.........Just ask Dana, he will tell you!!!!
you do know you're trying to by coy with an example featuring a 5-star QB recruit, right? Setting up your "See, they did it. Why can't Dana?" BS might not go the way you hope when you realize you're talking about one of the top 5 QBs from last year's class....
Briles' QB recruiting to date:
2015 - Jarrett Stidham (5-star DT QB, TTU decommit)
2014 - No QB recruits
2013 - Chris Johnson (career backup)
2012 - Seth Russell, Terrence Singleton (moved to CB)
2011 - No QBs
2010 - Tyrell Jenkins (never enrolled, baseball player)
2009 - Bryce Petty, Jarod Monk (moved to TE)
2008 - Jeremy Sanders (moved to Safety), RG3, Nick Florence
2015 - Jarrett Stidham (5-star DT QB, TTU decommit)
2014 - No QB recruits
2013 - Chris Johnson (career backup)
2012 - Seth Russell, Terrence Singleton (moved to CB)
2011 - No QBs
2010 - Tyrell Jenkins (never enrolled, baseball player)
2009 - Bryce Petty, Jarod Monk (moved to TE)
2008 - Jeremy Sanders (moved to Safety), RG3, Nick Florence
But Briles has only managed to bring in 4 worthy QBs (by board's standards) out of a possible 12 attempts (counting no-QB years as one attempt)
Surely, this is a sign of poor judgment on the recruiting trail by Baylor coaches.....
Seth Collins, Brett Rypien, Drew Lock, Tanner Magnum,...hell, even Kaaya played well as a True Freshman last year with a coach that was deemed to be a failure and fired mid season this year... Bad coaches and pathetic defeatist fans make excuses....
Aren't you pretty confident in Stidham, though? I mean, not very much playing time so far, but he certainly seems like a great bet to make it 5/12.
You follow recruiting much more than I do, Keaton. Even at 4/12, isn't that about right for a success ratio at that position?
You follow recruiting much more than I do, Keaton. Even at 4/12, isn't that about right for a success ratio at that position?
I counted the frosh as one of the 4..... Florence was not counted, as per my reasoning on Page 1..... If folks are classifying Howard as bad then so was Florence
4/12 is actually low..... Id say 50% of the time is better
lol this cat said Seth Collins..... Who has a 51% completion rate on the season for a 2-win team
And the. He said Drew Lock.... The worst QB in the SEC right now
And then He said Mangum, the 22 year old "freshman" who got worked by Michigan....
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50%? You think so? It'd be useful to have some kind of wider baseline to use as a point of comparison.
Don't get me wrong, I have no idea what an expected success rate is for QB recruiting. Just going on instinct here...I think we both are.
You have to count Florence as a success. His one year as the starter ended with a Holiday Bowl blowout of UCLA. We'd all sign up for that right now from Skyler, because it would by definition be our best Big 12 season yet.
It's on comparisons like that where you go wrong, Keaton. Florence and Howard might look similar to this point, but Florence and his team both took off after that.
The poor November finishes and ability to improve players over a season are specifically what people are questioning about Holgorsen, so your attempt to equate the front halves of Florence's and Howard's seasons is immaterial because that part is not in question. The back nine is.
Don't get me wrong, I have no idea what an expected success rate is for QB recruiting. Just going on instinct here...I think we both are.
You have to count Florence as a success. His one year as the starter ended with a Holiday Bowl blowout of UCLA. We'd all sign up for that right now from Skyler, because it would by definition be our best Big 12 season yet.
It's on comparisons like that where you go wrong, Keaton. Florence and Howard might look similar to this point, but Florence and his team both took off after that.
The poor November finishes and ability to improve players over a season are specifically what people are questioning about Holgorsen, so your attempt to equate the front halves of Florence's and Howard's seasons is immaterial because that part is not in question. The back nine is.
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I'm not picking on Howard, but you are skewing facts by picking out certain time periods to try to make your argument. Let's look at the rest of the 2012 season and Florence's performance. He went on to only throw 2 more interceptions for the rest of the year (if your 11 INTs stat is correct) beat #1 ranked K State by 28 points, #23 Oklahoma State and #17 UCLA by 23 points. He threw for 33 touchdowns and 4309 yards on the season. And it was his first year as a starting QB with limited playing time the two previous years.
Do you think Howard will make it to 33 TDs this year? He stands at 15 right now, halfway through the season. Do you think Howard will make it to 4,309 yards this year? He stands at 1,566 right now.
The coaches aren't coaching them not to make mistakes? And how do you know this again?
You don't go to the practices or have any idea what the coaches are doing. yet you spew your vitriol day and night because for some reason you hate WVU and DH. Based on other rants it seems to be from some misguided anger from when DH took a job offered to him, or because you hate Oliver Luck.
Tell us all please exactly who is it that is going to come to coach at Morgantown that is going to get these better players and have them playing mistake free every game? What's that, you don't know? yet you want WVU to simply toss everyone and everything out the door based on three losses to a top 5, top 15 and actually another top 15 squad with one loss between all- and one of the losses in OT to boot.
Good plan. One could claim out of the teams you mentioned, only KU had less talent on paper, but WVUs season was in the tank already and the players could not be motivated to care. Evryone else had equal or better talent on the field.
I don't know what they are coaching them to do, but whatever it is it's not working because the team is mediocre at best and has been mediocre for the vast majority of Dana's tenure.
And it's not my job to hire a coach that can come in here and do better, but WVU pays Lyons a hefty salary to make those decisions, so I'd expect him to be able to do just that.
Not bad numbers, but you need to look at the competition...
The first 3 games: ATTS: 84 COM: 58 69% TDs 9 Intc. 1 Yards 914 Run: 33-88 2.7 ave.
Second 3 games: ATTS: 105 Com: 53 50% TDs 6 Intc. 5 Yards 650 Run: 45-101 2.2 ave.
Looky here..........................you put Skyler Howard on the Baylor team and he will show out! He would be inserted into the QB position on a team that has a superior offensive and a coach that can call the right plays and a coach that instills confidence in his players. I also suggest that the budget at Baylor allows for bigger and better things all around. Now.................there you have it. Warez
the best records I could find on athletic budgets showed WVU at 76 million and Baylor at 74 million......you really think Sky could hit Coleman on the run the way Seth has???. You put Sky on that team and you probably knock at least 17 points a game off and that is being generous. They do have a much better coach, I will give you that!!!
Howard would never see the field at Baylor. Maybe at KSU this year since injuries have had them use 5. I must say though I saw part of the game where they had to play a WR. Hel looked better than Howard despite not practicing.
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