Athlon
- Thread starter WV Bruno
- Start date
Trust that there climb hoss. We are now picked to be at the top of the bottom half of the conference. Give the current social justice and inclusion warrior Neal another eight to ten years and look out Iowa State we're gonna pass ya! Whoa!!!
I would love an 8-4 season...but that would mean a winning record in the big 12 and a better than 6th place finish. Bowl game...another meaningless post season practice with best players sitting out? That's success? Hardly. Can't understand why so many so called forum fans define middle of the road results as achievement. Must be a low self esteem thing. WVU will never move up as long as that hill is too steep to climb.
It's like the difference between being proud of your kid making a lay-up when they are 5 vs 15. Former is an achievement and the latter is not. You seem more on the side that WVU with any competent coach should be instantly good without growing pains or rebuilding phases. I'd say that's an unrealistic expectation. Minor achievements in pursuit of growth is good whereas if part of the status quo, they are not. Currently WVU is in a growth phase and they have neither done anything spectacular nor egregiously subpar.
And that is the problem...WVU and the fan base are now always...under any coach...in a growth (or rebuilding) phase and increasingly giddy over a layup on a 5-15 team lol. Winning starts in the mind...expecting to achieve.
Last edited:
I truly thought the assclowns were the dumbest ones on here....but you can't appreciate a rebuild then you get that prize.
Again, go root for Clemson if you can't stand to see WVU fix the mess Holgs left.
How is WVU always in a growth phase? The team stagnated under Holgorsen and, albeit 3-4 years too late in my opinion, moved on. Now WVU is 2 years into a rebuild, aka growth phase and anyone thinking that this team has horrendously underperformed in those 2 years has unreasonable expectations. Now if 2 years from now folks are still sanguine about the results on the field being the same as now, you will have a point. But Tom Brady and Nick Saban couldn't have walked into WVU in 2019 and delivered results you'd be happy with based upon your commentary.
RR came in...folks said rebuild. BS took over...folks said rebuild. DH arrived...guess what? Rebuild. NB arrives...rebuild yet again. Notice the pattern? Sounds more like the same excuse in different languages.
CLARENCE "DOC" SPEARS HAD THE ONLY TEAM IN WVU HISTORY, IN 1922, THAT NEVER LOST A GAME AND WON THE SHRINE EAST-WEST CLASSIC, THE PRECURSOR TO THE ROSE BOWL, WHICH IF IT HAPPENED TODAY WOULD BE CONSIDERED THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME. SO, DOES THAT MEAN ALL THE OTHER COACHES IN WVU HISTORY WERE A FAILURE? HELL, NO! NEHLEN WAS HERE 21 YEARS, PLAYED NOTRE DAME FOR THE NATIONAL TITLE AND LOST PARTIALLY BECAUSE MAJOR HARRIS DISLOCATED HIS SHOULDER ON THE 3RD PLAY FROM SCRIMMAGE. DOC SPEARS, AFTER GOING UNDEATED IN 1922, LOST ONCE IN 1923 AND ONCE IN 1924. THAT'S 2 LOSSES IN 3 SEASONS, INCLUDING POST-SEASON. IF NEHLEN, RICH, CARLEN OR BOWDEN HAD DONE THAT THERE WOULD BE STATUE OF THEM 40-FEET TALL AT THE ENTRANCE TO MOUNTAINEER FIELD, WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN RE-NAMED FOR THE GUY WHO MATCHED SPEARS' COACHING FEAT.
So RR's tenure at WVU was a rebuild? Or was it just the first 4 years before White or Slaton showed up? From 1993 - 2000 Nehlen was not doing any better than Stewart. Was that a rebuilding time for WVU? By your standards WVU has not been any better than this "rebuilding" mentality outside of maybe 10 years. Given WVU football has existed for 130 years, it is unreasonable to suddenly expect WVU to just grab a new coach after an average at best one and immediately compete for one of the 5 most prestigious conference championships every year. Even accepting your framing of the situation, you still come off as having unreasonable expectations.
Bells...Yes RR was brought in to take WVU in a new direction...euphemism for rebuild. Your post makes my point. WVU will never challenge until attitudes move away from accepting mediocrity. BTW...txs for a rational debate.
Talkin heads don’t know anything. They haven’t been to campus. Haven’t watched film. Probably didn’t contact one person associated with the program. My bet is they never played football. In other words these guys are as bad as @Cuyahoga Falls Eers and @TownesVanZandt
For middle of the pack programs you described a better than average year. WVU is middle of the pack at this point. I’d be very happy with 8 or 9 wins for sure.
Your posting style is like looking at 200 zebras running around in a circle. You know something is there but can’t make out what it is. In your case, what it says.
Always find it fascinating and sad at the same time.
You have people, pretending to be WVU fans CHAMPIONING five win seasons under the present coach, but if that weren't bad enough LYING about the previous coach and where the program was.
WVU previous staff five previous seasons:
The above is described as "stagnant", or "bad, terrible", with comments like "glad he moved on, but should have happened sooner".
Then you have Neal Brown's record:
and Brown's record is described as: a "rebuild", a "growth phase" that happened under supposedly "unreasonable expectations?" Needs more time, etc. etc?
What in the world has happened to this society? Lies are truth and truth is thrown out the window if it doesn't fit someone's agenda. Losing and mediocrity is great and defended, while winning and improving is cursed as terrible and a decline?!?
You have people, pretending to be WVU fans CHAMPIONING five win seasons under the present coach, but if that weren't bad enough LYING about the previous coach and where the program was.
WVU previous staff five previous seasons:
| WVU | under Holgorsen | final 5 seasons |
| Year | Wins | Losses |
| 2018 | 8 | 4 |
| 2017 | 7 | 6 |
| 2016 | 10 | 3 |
| 2015 | 8 | 5 |
| 2014 | 7 | 6 |
The above is described as "stagnant", or "bad, terrible", with comments like "glad he moved on, but should have happened sooner".
Then you have Neal Brown's record:
| WVU | under Brown | 2 seasons |
| Year | Wins | Losses |
| 2020 | 6 (after bowl victory over G-5) | 5 |
| 2019 | 5 | 7 |
and Brown's record is described as: a "rebuild", a "growth phase" that happened under supposedly "unreasonable expectations?" Needs more time, etc. etc?
What in the world has happened to this society? Lies are truth and truth is thrown out the window if it doesn't fit someone's agenda. Losing and mediocrity is great and defended, while winning and improving is cursed as terrible and a decline?!?
Last edited:
So Stewart inherited a good situation, but didn't deliver great seasons while not acknowledging the problems that prevented the program from reaching its potential. After 3 seasons, he was replaced. Holgorsen inherited a good situation that was under utilized by the previous staff and showed some flashes of good things to come out of the gate. However, after a swoon when the program was completely under his control, Dana only recovered to marginal results despite mortgaging the future on Grier's last year. WVU moved on from him, 3-4 years too late in my opinion. Now Brown has had 2 years. Explain how this is WVU "accepting" mediocrity? Seems like WVU is replacing coaches who don't ever eventually get to competing for the conference. Explain how it makes sense to replace a coach after 2 seasons? Let's say Brown does fizzle out and WVU replaces him in 2023. Would you fire the new guy if he is only .500 after 2 seasons as well? What would you have to see after 2 seasons from a new hire at WVU to not be as dour as you are currently?
WVU could finish anywhere from third to seventh.
Majority of people have them behind TCU, Texas and Oklahoma State.
Tx Tech is another. WVU and them are in similar positions.
But Tx Tech has hit the transfer portal hard to go with the talent on the roster.
I feel like WVU has a better program.
Regarding beating TCU, Texas and Oklahoma St…
Will come down to replacing guys on the defensive side of the ball and improving the Offensive Line
Texas and TCU have a lot of high end talent
Oklahoma State, to me, isn’t as good as where people are putting them.
Majority of people have them behind TCU, Texas and Oklahoma State.
Tx Tech is another. WVU and them are in similar positions.
But Tx Tech has hit the transfer portal hard to go with the talent on the roster.
I feel like WVU has a better program.
Regarding beating TCU, Texas and Oklahoma St…
Will come down to replacing guys on the defensive side of the ball and improving the Offensive Line
Texas and TCU have a lot of high end talent
Oklahoma State, to me, isn’t as good as where people are putting them.
Where WVU finishes….
Doesn’t determine anything.
The conference does
Are you average if you finish 20th in the Olympics in the 100. Don’t even qualify for the final.
50% or where you finish is on you. 50% of where you finish is on your competition.
Best case scenario would be for the OL to develop and replace the guys on defense
Then for TCU to continue to look great on paper but not produce
For Sark to have issues in Year 1 and Texas stay where they were last yeat
For Tx Tech to continue to suck
Then for Oklahoma State to stay where they were last year
Doesn’t determine anything.
The conference does
Are you average if you finish 20th in the Olympics in the 100. Don’t even qualify for the final.
50% or where you finish is on you. 50% of where you finish is on your competition.
Best case scenario would be for the OL to develop and replace the guys on defense
Then for TCU to continue to look great on paper but not produce
For Sark to have issues in Year 1 and Texas stay where they were last yeat
For Tx Tech to continue to suck
Then for Oklahoma State to stay where they were last year
The history of accepting mediocrity is well documented in your response. Brown...to date...has shown zero...nothing...that indicates it won't be more of the same. WVU football is the definition of "kissing your sister."
The problem for Neal Brown is what I showed people when I posted the ESPN FPI
Solid team…But there are six teams in the conference with a better FPI.
WVU is still Top 25
www.espn.com
Solid team…But there are six teams in the conference with a better FPI.
WVU is still Top 25
2023 College Football Power Index - ESPN
View the 2023 College Football power index on ESPN. The FPI is the best predictor of a team's performance going forward for the rest of the season.
So you'd support firing Brown now since you have a good idea of what kind of coach he will be in the future and think it will be mediocre at best? Or do you think maybe there is enough of a chance that you are wrong that'd you be more in support of him having at least 1 more year? Whenever WVU does hire a new coach, what would the new coach have to do in 2 years to avoid this same outcome in your mind?
Goes back to schools like Boise State and UCF who dominate inferior competition for awhile…
They think somehow that makes them an elite program
There isn’t a single G5 program that is elite .
Because numerous P5 schools can do what they do
Not too hard to win 10+ games in the Mountain West/AAC
They think somehow that makes them an elite program
There isn’t a single G5 program that is elite .
Because numerous P5 schools can do what they do
Not too hard to win 10+ games in the Mountain West/AAC
You never said firing verbatim, but explain what you mean by this statement:
"The history of accepting mediocrity is well documented in your response. Brown...to date...has shown zero...nothing...that indicates it won't be more of the same. WVU football is the definition of 'kissing your sister'"
It reads like you are accusing me of "accepting mediocrity" for wanting to take a wait and see approach to Brown's 3rd year which is verbatim in my posts you are referencing. So if you don't think Brown should be replaced ASAP and you don't accept mediocrity, then how do you differ from those like me that are "accepting mediocrity" by not wanting Brown replaced ASAP?
If WVU was in the AAC and went 11-1 and played in the Orange Bowl or Peach Bowl…Does that mean they aren’t mediocre.
According to ESPN FPI WVU is better than every G5 team even though they are predicted to be 6-6.
People tend to give too much credit to winning against inferior competition and not enough for competing against good competition
I'm not asking a "gotcha" question. It only seems that way because the argument you have presented for your accusations that WVU and it's fan base are accepting mediocrity is mutually exclusive with NOT wanting to fire Brown. I'm not asking a closed end question, it's completely open. It just requires clarification and specifics rather than vagaries. Since you did not confirm if your desire is for WVU to move on from Brown, it is logical to assume that you are not advocating it ... granting of course the benefit of the doubt that you are not being disingenuous. Thus it begs the question as to how having a pessimistic view of WVU's future prospects is not accepting mediocrity whereas having a neutral or optimistic view is.
So you are mediocre? Or are you not a WVU fan? This post reads like the 2 positions are mutually exclusive. Posts like this are nothing more than platitudes without real substance. So far you've claimed that Neal Brown is mediocre, WVU fans extol minor accomplishments as achievements, WVU fans love mediocrity, you are not in favor of firing Brown, and Brown has given no reason to expect better results in future. I'm assuming you've heard the saying regarding the definition of insanity? You are all over the map and any sane person will interpret your line of posts as a person having the expectations that modern day Alabama would have difficulty living up to while also declaring people who hold a position that you do not deny holding yourself are "accepting mediocrity" while you are not. Labels for thee but not for me. You make points like the SJWs you claim to hate. By that I mean you throw out simple assertions without logical explanation that are solely based upon your feelings. If not, you never provide logical reasoning as to why they are not just your feelimgs. Every time you are given a chance to prove the previous conclusion untrue, you confirm it by postinh what you think are clever "trolls" without any merit. You are either unable or afraid to clearly articulate WHY you think what you think. Which is only really a failing because of how often you spew it other's faces and disparage anyone who doesn't agree with it.
Got it. I win the debate by default since you pretty much forfiet. I'd take it, but I don't accept mediocrity and will chock it up to a complete waste of time and thought.
If you don't want to accept mediocrity then you should learn to spell "forfeit". Too funny.
2019 Oklhoma State 8-5 (5-4) 6th.
2018 Baylor 7-6 (4-5)
2017 Kansas State 8-5 (5-4)
2016 Kansas State 8-5 (5-4)
Majority of the time Big 12 6th place finisher has a 5-4 conference record. Win all 3 of the OOC games and 8 or 9 is very doable every year. I would prefer to be top 4 every year. But WVU has been picked 6th or lower every year except first season in Big 12.
