Answer this honestly

[VaultHunter]

WVU was not a preseason top 25 team and had questions concerning WR, QB and Offensive Line..

Are losses to Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor and TCU now considered "bad losses" and are worth firing a coach over?

 

[Darth_VadEER]

WVU was not a preseason top 25 team and had questions concerning WR, QB and Offensive Line..

Are losses to Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor and TCU now considered "bad losses" and are worth firing a coach over?

Don't try being reasonable. Bill Stewart always won 9 games and would in the B12, easily. Bill Stewart was from West Virginia.

 

[31Herd55]

Good point by The Vault...+1

 

[wvu22]

WVU was not a preseason top 25 team and had questions concerning WR, QB and Offensive Line..

Are losses to Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor and TCU now considered "bad losses" and are worth firing a coach over?

So what if we lose to Texas Tech, or Texas, or God forbid Iowa St, KSt, or Kansas? Hell we have never beat K St in the Big 12 at all.

It's not the fact that we lost to those teams but how we are not prepared to play, how we continue to make dumb mistakes, play with no passion, etc that has people looking for a change. Our clock management is horrible, we are turning it over a lot, and we are one of the most heavily penalized teams in the conference. We are not a great team to begin with but we constantly shoot ourselves in the foot. We are either a very unlucky team, or one that is poorly managed. I'm leaning toward the latter since this is a recurring theme under Dana. If he loses to Texas Tech at home, I think he's out. Make or break game IMO

 

[HurdyGurdyEer]

"(L)losses to Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor and TCU " are worth firing if they are combined with multiple losses in the last five games.

Gotta wait til the season is over, or just about over, before any decision is made.

 

[Sea Level NC]

The only loss that really bothers me is OSU. The rest were simply superior teams.

 

[OmarLittle]

WVU was not a preseason top 25 team and had questions concerning WR, QB and Offensive Line..

Are losses to Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor and TCU now considered "bad losses" and are worth firing a coach over?

This is flawed logic though.
What if for the next 10 years WVU is still not a top 25 team. And half the conference is.
according to this train of thought, losing to the half conference would be just fine because rankings have it that way and they aren't 'bad losses'.

You are just ignoring the bigger question, why in 4th year is it ok to have questions to, according to you, the entire offense except RB. For a coach who was supposed to be one of the best offensive minds in football. is it ok to be 14-21 pt underdogs to half the conference this far into his tenure?

If Oklahoma and Texas were running people over like FSU and Clemson in the ACC and OSU/MSU in the big 10...fine. Have to find a way to compete with the big name programs. But its TCU who just came in the conference when we did and Baylor, who has a history of 2-5 win seasons for decades. If they can, WVU sure as hell can. And just my opinion, it takes a different path than the one currently being traveled.

 

[TruWVblu]

WVU was not a preseason top 25 team and had questions concerning WR, QB and Offensive Line..

Are losses to Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor and TCU now considered "bad losses" and are worth firing a coach over?

No, but having questions about WR, the Offensive Line, and your QB position in a coaches 5th season is when it costs you a chance to win these type games.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

WVU was not a preseason top 25 team and had questions concerning WR, QB and Offensive Line..

Are losses to Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor and TCU now considered "bad losses" and are worth firing a coach over?

No. They are not.

While I agree that the TCU loss, in its final score, adds tension to the HC "debate"................ the decision-makers aka the people who matter aren't as fickle-brained as the ignorant masses, and understand the reality that came with this season........

 

[TruWVblu]

No. They are not.

While I agree that the TCU loss, in its final score, adds tension to the HC "debate"................ the decision-makers aka the people who matter aren't as fickle-brained as the ignorant masses, and understand the reality that came with this season........

The "ignorant masses" are the ones buying tickets, driving 6 hours one way to each home game, and spending hundreds of our family's entertainment dollars to attend each of those games. Again, it is not just the loses but the way we have lost.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

The "ignorant masses" are the ones buying tickets, driving 6 hours one way to each home game, and spending hundreds of our family's entertainment dollars to attend each of those games. Again, it is not just the loses but the way we have lost.

And they will continue to buy tickets, drive 6 hours, and spend hundreds of family dollars............


this same crap was posted in 2013............................. and in 2014, our attendance soared from 52,000 to nearly 58,000 a game.

Our home schedule in 2016:

Youngstown
Missour
Baylor
Kansas
Kansas St
Oklahoma
TCU


no one is going to turn down their season tickets for that lineup............................... that claim is all bark and never bite.

 

[Keyser76]

WVU was not a preseason top 25 team and had questions concerning WR, QB and Offensive Line..

Are losses to Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor and TCU now considered "bad losses" and are worth firing a coach over?

Trolls ain't ever happy, they are crappy fishermen too because they change lures every five minutes if they don't catch something.

 

[steeleer]

See above. Dana has not recruited a QB worth a damn in 5 years. I don't call Tricket a recruit. He's a transfer that openly wanted to come here after spending a large part of his childhood living in the WVU locker room.. He pretty much recruited himself.

Could Chugs be that guy? Maybe. At this point, let the next coach figure it out.

I don't tend to be a "change for the sake of change" kind of guy, but we are failing on offense and defense. The core of our special teams (O'Toole) is done after this year. Not exactly what I would call a solid foundation in year 5.

 

[NCBuck]

WVU was not a preseason top 25 team and had questions concerning WR, QB and Offensive Line..

Are losses to Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor and TCU now considered "bad losses" and are worth firing a coach over?

 

[TruWVblu]

And they will continue to buy tickets, drive 6 hours, and spend hundreds of family dollars............


this same crap was posted in 2013............................. and in 2014, our attendance soared from 52,000 to nearly 58,000 a game.

Our home schedule in 2016:

Youngstown
Missour
Baylor
Kansas
Kansas St
Oklahoma
TCU


no one is going to turn down their season tickets for that lineup............................... that claim is all bark and never bite.

The novelty of those teams visiting Morgantown will at some point wear off. When fans begin buying tickets to see the opposing team instead of WVU, you are in trouble. If we lose this week, and I sure hope we don't, you will begin to see a decline in attendance. If you are happy with a half empty stadium when we play Iowa State, just because we sold a certain amount of season tickets, good for you. My guess is, the "ignorant masses" feel differently.

 

[Low Mountains Drifter]

The logic that utterly escapes me is that if people reasonably assume we won't be good, it is therefore acceptable not to be good.

That's a rather bizarre perspective.

I think the vast majority of people would conclude that by confirming beliefs the program is headed in the wrong direction, this season (unless there is a dramatic turnaround) should end the debate about whether he was a bad hire.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

The novelty of those teams visiting Morgantown will at some point wear off. When fans begin buying tickets to see the opposing team instead of WVU, you are in trouble. If we lose this week, and I sure hope we don't, you will begin to see a decline in attendance. If you are happy with a half empty stadium when we play Iowa State, just because we sold a certain amount of season tickets, good for you. My guess is, the "ignorant masses" feel differently.

Brah, nobody is talking about attendence in the remainder of this season............ of course the fan base, particularly the students, will react to a losing team.......


But next season, they'll be right back in the seats.................. always did. always do. always will.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

The logic that utterly escapes me is that if people reasonably assume we won't be good, it is therefore acceptable not to be good.

That's a rather bizarre perspective.

I think the vast majority of people would conclude that by confirming beliefs the program is headed in the wrong direction, this season (unless there is a dramatic turnaround) should end the debate about whether he was a bad hire.

So you always live a context-free life?

You often find yourself in a McDonalds, demanding a T Bone steak? Or showing up at the dealership with 20k mad because you "deserve" a BMW?


If you couldn't look at the situations involving WVU football this season and see that we weren't a Title Contender, then just tuck that head back down in your bucket of sand.......... reality isn't for you.

Understanding that a season probably won't be great is not an indication of a failed coaching decision................... success in sports is cyclical. Acknowledging that provides a far greater enjoyment for when WVU is actually achieving it.

Rationality has completely escaped this fan base.

 

[Low Mountains Drifter]

You really are a special kind of stupid.

If a new chef at your favorite restaurant ruins the food, do you just continue eating it and tell the owner it's OK the food now sucks?

 

[KeatonsCorner]

You really are a special kind of stupid.

If a new chef at your favorite restaurant ruins the food, do you just continue eating it and tell the owner it's OK the food now sucks?

brother, Dana is averaging the same number of wins a season that WVU football has averaged over the last 50 years........................ this chef is no different than any other............ except that fact that his restaurant is competing against FAR, FAR better competition for patrons.

 

[HurdyGurdyEer]

Season ticket sales go up and down. If an increasing number of fans are not happy with the direction of the program then season ticket sales will decrease. Plus, given that you must make a donation to be eligible to buy season tickets donations also go down when fans are increasingly disgruntled.

Keaton is not to be believed when he suggests that attendance/ticket sales don't factor into the equation. They do.
But Keaton is correct when he says the real decision makers are not as fickle as the average fan who buys a ticket.

And the chef example .... really?
If a chef were in a cook-off against another chef who had better ingredients and better facilities you would probably expect the second chef to do better, right? A meal in a restaurant stands on its own (unlike a football team) unless that meal is pitted against another chef's meal (like a football team).

 

[KeatonsCorner]

My point about season tickets and attendance not being a factor is because in 2016............... Attendance will rise above what it could dip to if we lose more in 2015.................... just like it did in 2014 after the 4-8 season. Our home schedule is too good, and our fan base will once again get excited for the year, just as they always do, and our season ticket sales will again be where they always are (right around 30k)....... We are consistent consumers.

 

[Low Mountains Drifter]

We play more games now than for the vast majority of that period, and Let's look at since Nehlen took over.

Our winning percentage 1980-2010 = .645

WP under Dana = .534

WP 2012- present = .466.

WP 2013-present = .437

WP last 12 games = .333

I'd also suggest that if a business owner begins facing tougher competition, the goal should be to get better not worse employees.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

We play more games now than for the vast majority of that period, and Let's look at since Nehlen took over.

Our winning percentage 1980-2010 = .645

WP under Dana = .534

WP 2012- present = .466.

I'd also suggest that if a business owner begins facing tougher competition, the goal should be to get better not worse employees.

Now show us schedule strength trends over that time............. it is a FACT that our double-digit win season in the BE came once the better programs left for the ACC (BC, VT, Miami)

 

[HurdyGurdyEer]

We play more games now than for the vast majority of that period, and Let's look at since Nehlen took over.

Our winning percentage 1980-2010 = .645

WP under Dana = .534

WP 2012- present = .466.

I'd also suggest that if a business owner begins facing tougher competition, the goal should be to get better not worse employees.

So ... if this team were to finish at 8-4 that would be a winning percentage of .666, which would be higher than any of those numbers you quote.
If it goes 7-5 the percentage would be .583 and higher than two of those numbers.
And if the team goes 6-6 it will finish with a higher percentage than it has now.

Your numbers mean nothing. The only thing that matters is whether or not the real decision makers believe the program will move in the right direction in the near future.

 

[Low Mountains Drifter]

No one is saying the schedule is not tougher, but it's not that much tougher.

And, I don't think the goal was when we hired Dana that we would even just stay the same (which we clear haven't.) The goal was indisputably to improve, which we more clearly haven't.

IF Oliver Luck had said when hiring Dana, "I believe he is the coach we need to suffer only a moderate decline which is what I, and our fans, expect at WVU," it would be debatable whether he is getting THAT job done. It's not debatable he's failing to do what he actually was hired to do.

 

[HurdyGurdyEer]

Short term you can bank on season tickets/donations remaining relatively stable.
But if it is believed that a long term downward trend could be emerging the decision makers would factor that into their decision.

 

[HurdyGurdyEer]

No one is saying the schedule is not tougher, but it's not that much tougher..

That statement disqualifies you from having any reasonable opinion.

 

[Low Mountains Drifter]

Numbers mean EVERYTHING when the numbers in questions are wins and losses. That's why they keep score during games and compile season records.

This isn't co-ed soccer for 6 year olds.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

Dana played nearly as many ranked opponents in 2014 than Rod did in all three 10+ win seasons combined (not counting bowl games)



yea. Not that much tougher.

WVU just played more top 15 opponents in one month than Stewart did in 3 seasons....


yea. Not that much tougher.

 

[Low Mountains Drifter]

We play 5 games this year against weak competetion.

We play 3 games against what appear to be good teams.

We play 4 games against roughly equal competition.

If we come to accept 2-5 records against the non-weak competition as being always acceptable rather than justifiable if offset by at least an equal number of winning records against decent completion, we are essentially throwing in the towel. If this were a truly down year under Dana then patience would be justified. This isn't a down year (at least not yet). It's what we've become with him as our coach.

11-20 in the Big 12, with 6 of those games against Kansas and ISU; 6 of them against KSU and TTU. Even in those 12 games we are only 5-7. Below .500 against a group NO ONE would claim includes a single team with superior talent.

And, even if you choose to concede we should just resign ourselves to being worse than the other 5 teams as some sort of irreversible reality, is 6-13 (a .315 WP) defensible?

 

[Darth_VadEER]

ISU hasn't won in forever and they still fill their stadium. Our fans are just brats.

You better win every game by 50 if you want me to show up.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

"We play 3 games against what appear to be good teams."


How to lose all credibility and alienate your argument........... by Low IQ Mountain

 

[Darth_VadEER]

We play 5 games this year against weak competetion.

We play 3 games against what appear to be good teams.

We play 4 games against roughly equal competition.

If we come to accept 2-5 records against the non-weak competition as being always acceptable rather than justifiable if offset by at least an equal number of winning records against decent completion, we are essentially throwing in the towel. If this were a truly down year under Dana then patience would be justified. This isn't a down year (at least not yet). It's what we've become with him as our coach.

11-20 in the Big 12, with 6 of those games against Kansas and ISU; 6 of them against KSU and TTU. Even in those 12 games we are only 5-7. Below .500 against a group NO ONE would claim includes a single team with superior talent.

And, even if you choose to concede we should just resign ourselves to being worse than the other 5 teams as some sort of irreversible reality, is 6-13 (a .315 WP) defensible?

LOL - You just Hank'd more than any Hank has ever Hank'd before.

 

[Low Mountains Drifter]

OU, Baylor and TCU appear to be good teams.

ISU and Kansas and a weak nd have been since we joined.

OSU, TTU, Texas, and KSU are roughly equal.

Is anyone here claiming that is such a murderer's row? A good team wins all of those games. A mediocre team should go 3-1 when 3 are at home.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

OSU is undefeated and ranked #12 in the country, but they aren't a good team?

So you're saying their are 3 additional teams roughly equal to the #12 ranked team in the country left on our schedule?

This dude's just a troll.

 

[HurdyGurdyEer]

Numbers mean EVERYTHING when the numbers in questions are wins and losses. That's why they keep score during games and compile season records.

This isn't co-ed soccer for 6 year olds.

I said that YOUR numbers mean nothing at this point in time.

Quit generalizing and changing the subject when someone focuses on the specifics of what you say. You only make yourself look stupid.

 

[Low Mountains Drifter]

The level of stupidity astounds.

You can't say we are not a good team because we have played all our toughest games.

Yet, you can say OSU is a good team when they have played none of their toughest games.

It's actually quite possible (being optimistic about us) that the only difference in record between us and OSU will prove to be that they came to our field and took a gift victory. That will mean they are better than us, but it won't mean they are good.

OOC they played Central Michigan, Central Arkansas and Texas San Antonio. They beat Texas, but so did ISU. They beat KSU but so did Texas. Texas also lost at home to Cal and is a major upset over OU from roasting Strong and may get there yet this year.


The Big 12 OOC

Baylor -- none

OSU-- none

KSU - none

Texas- 0-2

TTU 1-0 (beat Ark which might actually be the best win in the entire conf. even though Ark lost to Toledo)

TCU-- 1-0 (beat Minn. possible best win even though they are 1-3 in the B10)

Kansas 0-1

ISU 0-1 (and also lost to Toledo)

OU 1- 0 (beat UT, also a possible best win even though UT is 2-3 in the SEC and lost to Ark.)

What has the Big 12 actually done to demonstrate it is a tough conference relative to any other Power 5 conference? That our best teams are undefeated or 1 loss against very easy schedules proves nothing.

You should have a hard time arguing against that when you want to argue our schedule is such it's too soon to say we aren't good.

 

[steeleer]

brother, Dana is averaging the same number of wins a season that WVU football has averaged over the last 50 years........................ this chef is no different than any other............ except that fact that his restaurant is competing against FAR, FAR better competition for patrons.

...and the cost for a burger has gone from $1 to $65 in that same period. People are going to expect something pretty special from a $65 burger or they will stop coming.

You are also conveniently ignoring the boosters. They drive the bus at WVU like at many places. If they say "enough" then Dana is toast...which is exactly what happened to Stew.

 

[HurdyGurdyEer]

The level of stupidity astounds.

You can't say we are not a good team because we have played all our toughest games.

Yet, you can say OSU is a good team when they have played none of their toughest games.

It's actually quite possible (being optimistic about us) that the only difference in record between us and OSU will prove to be that they came to our field and took a gift victory. That will mean they are better than us, but it won't mean they are good.

OOC they played Central Michigan, Central Arkansas and Texas San Antonio. They beat Texas, but so did ISU. They beat KSU but so did Texas. Texas also lost at home to Cal and is a major upset over OU from roasting Strong and may get there yet this year.


The Big 12 OOC

Baylor -- none

OSU-- none

KSU - none

Texas- 0-2

TTU 1-0 (beat Ark which might actually be the best win in the entire conf. even though Ark lost to Toledo)

TCU-- 1-0 (beat Minn. possible best win even though they are 1-3 in the B10)

Kansas 0-1

ISU 0-1 (and also lost to Toledo)

OU 1- 0 (beat UT, also a possible best win even though UT is 2-3 in the SEC and lost to Ark.)

What has the Big 12 actually done to demonstrate it is a tough conference relative to any other Power 5 conference? That our best teams are undefeated or 1 loss against very easy schedules proves nothing.

You should have a hard time arguing against that when you want to argue our schedule is such it's too soon to say we aren't good.

In other words ..... we'll have to wait until the end of the season to really know how things shake out.
You're slow .... but you're getting there.