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Another idiot lib governor

WVPATX

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Jan 27, 2005
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Dannel Malloy of Connecticut is very, very angry about the new Indiana RFRA law. So much so that he will not fund state sponsored travel to Indiana. The only problem is that Connecticut has a version of the same law on its books, but it is in fact stricter.




Connecticut's law, however, is far more restrictive of government action and far more protective of religious freedoms. How? Because the Connecticut RFRA law states that government shall not "burden a person's exercise of religion[.]" Note that the word "substantially" is not included in Connecticut's law.



The effect of the absence of that single word is enormous. It states that Connecticut government may not burden the free exercise of religion in any way. That makes it far more protective of religious liberty than the Indiana law that has so outraged Connecticut's governor.





If Malloy wants to blatantly discriminate against state's with religious liberty laws on the books, that's his prerogative. But if he doesn't want to look like a completely ignorant hypocrite who has no idea what he's talking about, he should probably take a look at his own state's laws first.
 
People snicker when it's said you soon won't have churches at all.

However, it's the truth.

You'll have mosques ........... but no churches. Seems to be a problem in the Middle East. It will soon be ours as well .......... and for the record, I'm not much on "religion" so-called.

This was never about "not offending people with your beliefs". This was about the people claiming to be offended, the silly secular who hide behind this "accepting, inclusive, and open-minded" lark, stripping you of your right to commune with this supposedly non-existent God they sure seem to spend a lot of time denying.


DOOOOOOMED!!!!!
This post was edited on 3/30 1:46 PM by Wolf J. Flywheel
 
Lol Unfortunately for you it ain't playing out that way!

The GOP adults in the room already getting nervous the wing nuts are gonna make this an issue in 2016! Big business getting uncomfortable with the restless social conservatives. But hey, who knows, maybe running farther to the right really is a winning strategy for 2016?
 
So, you support discriminating against people?

For the record, I don't see any atheist groups proposing any discriminatory laws.

The towns of Seattle and San Francisco have both banned all official travel to the state of Indiana. This is just the beginning. You'll see a lot more uproar over discrimiation in this country and Indiana has a tough road ahead. A lot of businesses have axed planned expansions in the state and some are contemplating pulling out.
 
Actually it's about if you have a business you serve everyone.

But your Church can do whatever it wants. That is what makes America great.
 
snicker

Yeah, soon we'll have no churches at all. Snicker, snicker.
 
You need to actually read and understand the law before making stupid statements. This law does NOT enable discrimination. It is actually very, very similar to our existing federal law which Bill Clinton signed. Obama supported the same law in Illinios.
 
Like Michelle's "Black Girls Rock": doozy from this weekend?

Here's a little project for you .........

Imagine any other First Lady in history saying "White Girls Rock!" and take a guess what the reaction would have been.

Care to stake a stab at it ......... and explain to me how it's different?
 
Re: Lol Unfortunately for you it ain't playing out that way!

You may be right because the media is corrupt and will portray the bill as evil. But that does not change the fact that this bill is perfectly reasonable and is consistent with federal law which Bill Clinton signed. It also doesn't change the stupidity of the Connecticut governor.
 
Actually churches CAN'T do whatever they want.

Try telling that to those who refuse to marry two gay people ............. and that's not coming from a church-goer ...... but they should have the ability to refuse.

Yep, churches sure can do whatever they want .......... while they are still here.

We all know the churches are easy targets only because pansies like yourself are terrified of the mosques. Gee, I wonder why.

This post was edited on 3/30 1:58 PM by Wolf J. Flywheel
 
Re: Actually churches CAN'T do whatever they want.

Strictly speaking, nothing and nobody can whatever they want. But churches can refuse to marry two gay people, or any two people they decide they don't want to marry.
 
Originally posted by WVPATX:
This law does NOT enable discrimination.
That's why there is such a stink about it, right?

Good grief.

There has already been a "born again Christian" on talk radio state that he will refuse service to anyone he believes is gay and ask them to leave.

Can I make it any simpler for you?
 
You're not too sharp are you? ...... Ever heard of fines and jail terms?

Because there's already parts of the country that are threatening said verdicts to pastors who refuse to marry gay people.

Good grief, what homosexual rock have you been hiding under? It's not like this has not been made public.
DOOOOOOMED!
This post was edited on 3/30 2:05 PM by Wolf J. Flywheel
 
Like I posted, you don't know anything about this law. It DOES NOT enable discrimination. If it did, why would Clinton sign the bill and why would Obama support the Illinois bill?



What Is a RFRA?

This legislation sets the same minimum standard for burdening the exercise of religion. Under the various RFRAs, a state or the federal government-by law or other action-may not substantially burden an individual's exercise of religion unless the burden is in furtherance of a compelling government interest and is the least restrictive means of furthering that interest. Twenty states, including Indiana, and the federal government have RFRAs.


What? Government Interest?

Yeah. It's a lot more nuanced than the news media has allowed. It's a balancing test for litigation. It puts exercise of religion on one side of the scale and then government interest on the other. If the government's interest is not important enough-literally compelling-it cannot outweigh an individual's right to practice his religion as he sees fit.


So RFRAs Don't License Discrimination?

No. RFRA is a shield, not a sword. It can be used to defend oneself against lawsuits or administrative action. It can't be used affirmatively to try and deprive others of the protections of law.


So How Does This Really Work?

For example, back in 2006 the Supreme Court considered a case (PDF) involving a psychotropic tea that believers of a New Mexico church imbibed as part of their religious ceremonies. Customs inspectors had seized the tea as a violation of the federal Controlled Substances Act. The high court applied the balancing test described above. First, no one disputed that depriving the believers of their tea would be a substantial burden on their exercise of religion. That's the religion side of the scale. Second, the federal government in claimed it was just applying the Controlled Substances Act to everyone equally. But that is precisely why the government lost at the Supreme Court-unanimously. The government could not explain why it could not give an exemption to this little group of believers that wasn't harming anyone with its tea. And so the government's interest in uniform application of the Controlled Substance Act was outweighed by the interests of the believers in practicing their religion in peace.


If There's a Federal RFRA, Why Do States Have to Have Them, Too?

That's a different Supreme Court case. In 1997, the high court held that the federal government lacked the authority to impose RFRA on the states (hurray, government of limited power!). If the states want to have RFRAs, they have to adopt them on their own. Since then, 20 states have enacted RFRAs.


Is Indiana's RFRA Like the Other RFRAS?

Yes and no. Indiana's RFRA applies the same standard as in the other RFRAs that is described above: substantial burden versus compelling interest and least restrictive means. Indiana's RFRA is a defense not just for individuals, but also companies and corporations. This is similar to the federal RFRA after Hobby Lobby, which also applies to individuals, companies, and closely-held corporations. But not all state RFRAs include companies and corporations. So that's different in some states.



Indiana's RFRA also protects individuals both in lawsuits or administrative actions brought by the government and in lawsuits brought by private parties. Some states, like New Mexico, do not allow RFRA to be used as a defense in litigation where the government isn't a party. Also, the federal circuit courts are split about whether the federal RFRA can be used to defend against private lawsuits where the government isn't a party. So that's also different in some states and in some federal circuits.



Otherwise, it's the same law.


You Didn't Say Anything about the Gay Stuff.

That's because the words "gay," "lesbian," and "sexual orientation" don't appear in any of the RFRAs. Until now, the most controversial RFRA case was last year's It doesn't.)



This big gay freak-out is purely notional. No RFRA has ever been used successfully to defend anti-gay discrimination, not in twenty years of RFRAs nationwide.


Why Is Everyone So Mad about Indiana's RFRA, Then?

The fear is that it could be used to deny service to gay people in places of public accommodation like businesses and restaurants. But, as discussed above, no RFRA has ever been used that way before. Also, Indiana does not have a public accommodation law that protects against anti-gay discrimination, meaning there's no state law in Indiana preventing anti-gay discrimination in businesses even before the state RFRA was enacted. Notably, despite the lack of such a law, nobody can point to any Indiana businesses that were discriminating against gays.



That's what makes this an informed attribute. Gay marriage is on many people's minds lately, for obvious reasons. In truth, though, Indiana is merely catching-up to states that have had RFRAs for decades-like Illinois, for example, which got its RFRA with the help of a young state senator named Barack Obama. Unfortunately, Indiana is now caught in the cultural cross-fire.


Do Religious Freedom Protections Hurt Gays?

It is entirely consistent to favor broad religious freedom protections and also favor gay rights. Many gays are religious, and so themselves benefit from religious freedom protections like RFRA. But even where gay Americans and religious Americans find themselves in conflict, there is ample room in communities to peaceably coexist. That's the point of a RFRA. No side gets an automatic-victory card. The interests of all sides gets weighed.


What Do We Do Now?

If you've made it this far, you know more about RFRAs and the Indiana situation than the average news consumer. Share your knowledge. It's the only way to beat the swarms of aggrieved news consumers who don't know any better than what they've seen in the papers.



The only way to push back against the informed attribute in this instance is to point to the actual attributes of the law. Before Indiana, RFRAs existed for over 20 years in 19 states and the federal government. There has been no parade of horribles. They are a shield, not a sword. And their object is religious freedom, not anti-gay discrimination.
 
Re: Like Michelle's "Black Girls Rock": doozy from this weekend?


We're talking about discrimination against gays, please stay on topic. I know the lines are blurred for you wingnuts; you like to discriminate based on both color and sexual orientation.
 
Re: Actually churches CAN'T do whatever they want.

Originally posted by Wolf J. Flywheel:
Try telling that to those who refuse to marry two gay people ............. and that's not coming from a church-goer ...... but they should have the ability to refuse.


his post was edited on 3/30 1:58 PM by Wolf J. Flywheel
Absolutely agree that churches should have the ability to refuse ... has there been a law passed that they can't?

As far as businesses that want to discriminate, to me that's their problem and it will probably be a self-correcting one that doesn't require government intervention.

My question to these businesses though is do they also refuse cakes for 2nd marriages? If not, it's not really about their religion, it's just bigotry.
 
Thanks for proving my point. Even the right wing garbage you quote confirms my statement about the restaurant owner being willing and using the law to discriminate service.
 
Re: People snicker when it's said you soon won't have churches at all.

Originally posted by Wolf J. Flywheel:
However, it's the truth.

You'll have mosques ........... but no churches.

This was never about "not offending people with your beliefs". This was about the people claiming to be offended, the silly secular who hide behind this "accepting, inclusive, and open-minded" lark, stripping you of your right to commune with this supposedly non-existent God they sure seem to spend a lot of time denying.



DOOOOOOMED!!!!!

This post was edited on 3/30 1:46 PM by Wolf J. Flywheel
Wow. Who is stripping anybody of their right to commune with a non-existent God? Did I miss the part where all the doors and windows of churches are being locked/boarded up because a bakery doesn't want to serve gay couples?
 
We're starting to get used to the idea that we will have no

Bible believing churches. Not tomorrow. Not a year from now. But soon.

You'll still have Methodists, Presbyterians, etc., that don't preach the gospel at all, but many will die a harsh death.
 
Re: You're not too sharp are you? ...... Ever heard of fines and jail terms?

No there aren't. Churches can marry anyone they want or not marry anyone they don't want.

Justices of the Peace or whatever is another story. But not regular churches. A church operating under the guise of a public entity in a state that permits gay marriage may be different. But if two gay people go to a regular church and ask the church to marry them, in any state, the state can decline, just as it can decline to marry any two people.
 
Re: You're not too sharp are you? ...... Ever heard of fines and jail terms?

There are still some states that do not have a marriage equality law. So, those states can deny marriage for gay people or refuse to perform a marriage ceremony with penalty or fine.

Before you verbally attackt another poster for not knowing what they are talking about, take a moment to consider your own shortcoming.
 
You obviously either can't read or you can't comprehend, perhaps both.
 
Re: We're starting to get used to the idea that we will have no

Not a year from now but soon? How soon? 18 months?

But even if I got a number from you the problem is that you get to define "Bible believing" and thus you can't be wrong.

I suspect there are a lot of people that think they are Bible believing but you disagree.
 
First, homosexual marriages are easy to spot

2nd marriages, not so easy.

Secondly, my second marriage was ordained and performed by a Southern Baptist church. Not all second marriages are a sin.
 
Debating the laws is fruitless at this point.

None has been implemented (merely threatened and 3 cases are currently held up by lawsuits) but that is obviously the next logical step.

How many idiots (beyond a few here) believe that something as drastic as gay marriage being universally implemented after decades (centuries) of banishment comes without the mandatory ceremonies not being close behind (no pun intended).

And for the record, gay marriage is not a huge issue with me. I don't care where people shove their show. I am just saying those who stand in the pulpit should not be coerced into ceremonies ...... and again .... that is coming.

DOOOOOOMED![/B]
 
And for always. As you know.

Forget gay people. Are there any two people of any kind that a church can't refuse to marry? No. So why will things suddenly change with gay people. They won't.
 
We're projecting that Canadian type human rights rules will be in the US

within a decade.
 
LOL!! And how long do you think that is going to last?

Brother, gay marriage is here in all states ........ and that is fine with me (I'm no pastor) ...... but let's not pretend this is not going to be the law in all states.

Seriously .... quit wasting time on the fantasy it's not law now. Where's it's not, it soon will be and unless you're on helium, you understand that.

DOOOOOOOMED![/B]
 
Watch and see

I'll probably be third jailed in our church when it comes, so I won't be able to brag when I was right and you were wrong.
 
Re: We're starting to get used to the idea that we will have no

Originally posted by TarHeelEer:
You'll still have Methodists, Presbyterians, etc., that don't preach the gospel at all, but many will die a harsh death.
The Methodist church I went to had 3 passages read from the bible at each session and a sermon/lesson based on those passages, including the context from which they were derived.
 
You can't just make a crazy prediction and then say "Watch and see."

Churches can refuse to marry anyone they want. To think that will for some reason change with gay people doesn't make sense.
 
Suuuuuuuuure ...... that has a never-ending shelf life.

Yeah, the churches won't soon be forced. LOL!!!!!

What's sad is you actually believe that nonsense.

DOOOOOOOOMED![/B]
 
This is as simple as I can make it for you. This is copied directly from your right wing diatribe that you copied and pasted from a wingnut site that you are too embarassed to quote.

"The fear is that it could be used to deny service to gay people in places of public accommodation like businesses and restaurants."

End of story.
 
Personally, I don't commune with a non-existent God.

But I do talk with the actual one and only one.

BONUS: I don't have to blow myself up for him.
 
Re: First, homosexual marriages are easy to spot

Originally posted by TarHeelEer:
Not all second marriages are a sin.
Must have found a loophole.

2nd marriages are only a sin if it's a woman's second marriage. There doesn't seem to be such limitation on men.
 
The fear is just that. A fear. Not fact. Pretty simple to me.
 
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