A Muslim butcher has an agreement to butcher meat from a local meat producer. The producer decides to include pork in his order. Can the producer force the butcher to handle pork in direct contradiction of the butcher's faith? Can a Jewish baker be sued for not baking a cake celebrating Hitler's birth and calling for the anniliation of Jews? Must a Christian singer be required to perform at an atheist's rally?
A hypothetical for the libs on the board
- Thread starter WVPATX
- Start date
Should an Atheist resturant owner or hotel owner be allowed to deny service to a Christian because of their faith?
It depends on whether or not it was stated that pork is included in the agreement with the butcher.
The Muslim butcher doesn't have to handle pork but if it's part of his job then he may lose his job by refusing. Or if he's in business for himself and he refuses to handle port he'll lose business. The same goes with the Jewish baker except practically speaking he won't lose business if he's in business for himself because there are few requests coming in for Hitler cakes.
And no singer, Christian or otherwise, should be required to perform at anything.
And no singer, Christian or otherwise, should be required to perform at anything.
You are so very flip about destroying businesses simply because of religious objections. That doesn't describe the country our Founders intended. BTW, Jewish bakers have absolutely been asked to bake Hitler cakes. As for a Christian singer, if they are hired to perform and then later determine it's an atheist organization, they could absolutely be required to perform under your argument.
What do you mean flip? I thoughtfully answered your questions. Destroying businesses? What?!?
I've never even heard of a Hitler cake before. It's not like this is a common thing. Any baker could safely just ignore such businesses and if the baker wasn't the business owner the business owner very likely wouldn't forced a Jewish baker employee to bake a Hitler cake. So that one is irrelevant.
As far as the Christian singer goes, maybe if someone signs a contract and then decides they don't want to perform, for whatever reason, they have to pay a financial penalty to get out of it. But what's the relevance? A Christian singer would look to see who s/he is signing up to sing for before signing a contract. Or if they missed that part then they'd just haggle with the contracting party. Do you think an atheist group is going to force a Christian singer to sing at an atheist event or something?
I've never even heard of a Hitler cake before. It's not like this is a common thing. Any baker could safely just ignore such businesses and if the baker wasn't the business owner the business owner very likely wouldn't forced a Jewish baker employee to bake a Hitler cake. So that one is irrelevant.
As far as the Christian singer goes, maybe if someone signs a contract and then decides they don't want to perform, for whatever reason, they have to pay a financial penalty to get out of it. But what's the relevance? A Christian singer would look to see who s/he is signing up to sing for before signing a contract. Or if they missed that part then they'd just haggle with the contracting party. Do you think an atheist group is going to force a Christian singer to sing at an atheist event or something?
You are so flip in that you would destroy a Muslim's business and his livlihood simply because his religion tells him not to handle pork. This is precisely why these laws are needed to protect individuals from people like you.
Google Hitler cakes and you will see that those cakes do exist. And you are exactly wrong. If the Jewish baker refused, they could be sued and their business destroy (this has already happen for a Christian baker).
I recently hired a group to perform at my daughter's wedding. We will pick out the songs shortly. That gives us control over the songs. The same could be true of a Christian singer being asked to perform only Christian bashing songs.
The point is that our society should be big enough to have tolerance on both sides of this issue. It is easy to find another butcher. It is easy to find another baker. It is easy to find another performer. That is the entire purpose of this law which requires goverment to prove a state's or individual's compelling reason to force performance. It balances both sides rights.
Google Hitler cakes and you will see that those cakes do exist. And you are exactly wrong. If the Jewish baker refused, they could be sued and their business destroy (this has already happen for a Christian baker).
I recently hired a group to perform at my daughter's wedding. We will pick out the songs shortly. That gives us control over the songs. The same could be true of a Christian singer being asked to perform only Christian bashing songs.
The point is that our society should be big enough to have tolerance on both sides of this issue. It is easy to find another butcher. It is easy to find another baker. It is easy to find another performer. That is the entire purpose of this law which requires goverment to prove a state's or individual's compelling reason to force performance. It balances both sides rights.
It's his MO
It's a marvel to watch.
You should know this by now. He takes what you said, inserts a bunch of things you didn't say, then claims you made an assertion that you never made and then attacks the assertion that was never anyplace but in his own head in the first place.
It's a marvel to watch.
Re: You're right. I don't know why I fall for it again and again. *
Where did I insert a bunch of things in your post? I said you were flip, but not because you answered but rather because you could care less about destroying the Muslim's business.
Where did I insert a bunch of things in your post? I said you were flip, but not because you answered but rather because you could care less about destroying the Muslim's business.
You're not destroying a Muslim's business because of his religion, rather you're hurting the business chances of someone that is bad at their business. What if we were talking about a vegetarian butcher that refused to deal with any kind of meat? Are we destroying their business? If you're a butcher that refuses to deal in pork you're going to have trouble, regardless of whether your reasons are related to religion.
You are just bending over backwards to find ridiculous cases. Hitler cakes? Christians being forced to sing anti-Christian songs? What??? When in the hell is anyone forced to sing a song bashing their own religion? What planet are you living on?
You are just bending over backwards to find ridiculous cases. Hitler cakes? Christians being forced to sing anti-Christian songs? What??? When in the hell is anyone forced to sing a song bashing their own religion? What planet are you living on?
Re: Seriously doubt you see how
I didn't mean you literally go back in and put in a quote and actually insert things ... just that you read a ton of stuff into what people write, completely miscontruing their point, and then attack them on your miscontrued point.
You: "Do you like dogs?"
Me: "Yes, I've had dogs my whole life"
You: "Oh, so you're saying you hate cats!!"
And just as I thought, you can't see how.
I didn't mean you literally go back in and put in a quote and actually insert things ... just that you read a ton of stuff into what people write, completely miscontruing their point, and then attack them on your miscontrued point.
You: "Do you like dogs?"
Me: "Yes, I've had dogs my whole life"
You: "Oh, so you're saying you hate cats!!"
Re: Seriously doubt you see how
What did I do in this post to misconstrue his points? The remaining libs on the board refused to even answer the question.
This post was edited on 3/30 4:29 PM by WVPATX
This post was edited on 3/30 4:33 PM by WVPATX
What did I do in this post to misconstrue his points? The remaining libs on the board refused to even answer the question.
This post was edited on 3/30 4:29 PM by WVPATX
This post was edited on 3/30 4:33 PM by WVPATX
I like letting the market take care of. I prefer to know who the ignorant bigots are instead of it being hidden. If an establishment discriminated based on race, religion, or sexual orientation, they wouldn't get a penny of MY business, but others should be free to be bigots or support bigots.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Are you passsin judgement on Tri-state for what you just did?
"I didn't mean literally". The accusation was literal. Are we required to read between the lines on your offerings? Or just understand what you mean without saying it? That is asking a lot.
"I didn't mean literally". The accusation was literal. Are we required to read between the lines on your offerings? Or just understand what you mean without saying it? That is asking a lot.
Re: Opie, the request was specifically requested of liberals
I don't think this board is that strict. People post and others respond. I don't care whether he asks liberals or conservatives or whatever
As far as what I am, socially I'd say I was a liberal (in a country becoming more socially liberal all the time) but otherwise I definitely would not consider myself a liberal.
I don't think this board is that strict. People post and others respond. I don't care whether he asks liberals or conservatives or whatever
As far as what I am, socially I'd say I was a liberal (in a country becoming more socially liberal all the time) but otherwise I definitely would not consider myself a liberal.
I don't see a point in trying to explain it to you
History has shown you will be contrarian regardless of what I say. And there has even been examples of you being contrarian on the assertion that I said something that I never said.
Pretty pointless to pursue this with you.
History has shown you will be contrarian regardless of what I say. And there has even been examples of you being contrarian on the assertion that I said something that I never said.
Pretty pointless to pursue this with you.
Re: Opie, the request was specifically requested of liberals
But he was asking a specific group of people. If you are not liberal it would distort the response as a particular group. Do you not feel it was your responsibility when you are making a group response that you are not of that requested group and you are diluting the called for liberals when analyzing the response.
If your classification changes, you should notify the board of the same, IMO. We don't need more confusion.
But he was asking a specific group of people. If you are not liberal it would distort the response as a particular group. Do you not feel it was your responsibility when you are making a group response that you are not of that requested group and you are diluting the called for liberals when analyzing the response.
If your classification changes, you should notify the board of the same, IMO. We don't need more confusion.
Re: I don't see a point in trying to explain it to you
I will reiterate, you need to look in a mirror when make accuse people of possessing a trait that is applicable to you. I used to have a mother-in-law who would assign an undesirable characteristic to others to deflect from the trait in herself. Just saying, if it fits, wear it.
I will reiterate, you need to look in a mirror when make accuse people of possessing a trait that is applicable to you. I used to have a mother-in-law who would assign an undesirable characteristic to others to deflect from the trait in herself. Just saying, if it fits, wear it.
Re: I don't see a point in trying to explain it to you
It is a waste of time. He is convinced he is smarter than everyone who disagrees with him. He will never see how foolish it is.
It is a waste of time. He is convinced he is smarter than everyone who disagrees with him. He will never see how foolish it is.
