Joe Manchin

[atlkvb]

Why Donald Trump Won't Bring Coal Jobs Back to West Virginia
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2016/07/20/why-donald-trump-wont-bring-coal-jobs-back-to-west-virginia/?source=dam?client=ms-android-att-us

Some of that in the article you linked to is just media bias against Coal, and some of it is speculation, but there is no question Coal mining will get a huge boost under the Trump administration which not coincidentally could be planning to use it as U.S. leverage in renewed trade negotiations with Foreign nations in need of an abundant, reliable, & cheap energy source.

At any rate, it's better than pronouncing the entire industry "dead" as would have occurred under another Clinton administration.

 

[Bville]

Manchin is concerned about getting re-elected in WV, and he should be

There is an "I Love Joe Manchin" party?

I am certainly not part of it.

 

[JWBinDC]

Some of that in the article you linked to is just media bias against Coal, and some of it is speculation, but there is no question Coal mining will get a huge boost under the Trump administration which not coincidentally could be planning to use it as U.S. leverage in renewed trade negotiations with Foreign nations in need of an abundant, reliable, & cheap energy source.

At any rate, it's better than pronouncing the entire industry "dead" as would have occurred under another Clinton administration.

Media bias...shew. Let's revisit this conversation in four years and see exactly how much Trump and Manchin can turn coal around. Want to define "huge boost", so that we have a proper benchmark to evaluate?

 

[tjebarr]

Some of that in the article you linked to is just media bias against Coal, and some of it is speculation, but there is no question Coal mining will get a huge boost under the Trump administration which not coincidentally could be planning to use it as U.S. leverage in renewed trade negotiations with Foreign nations in need of an abundant, reliable, & cheap energy source.

At any rate, it's better than pronouncing the entire industry "dead" as would have occurred under another Clinton administration.

The one truth in the story is that can't be doubted is that Wyoming Coal is WV's coals biggest problem

 

[Bville]

WV is blessed with excellent "met" coal that is used in steel making. It is the best and possibly only fuel source that can generate the thermal capacity for steel manufacturing. So......when that manufacturing returns to the US, we should be in great shape

 

[Mr.Hyde]

Why Donald Trump Won't Bring Coal Jobs Back to West Virginia
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2016/07/20/why-donald-trump-wont-bring-coal-jobs-back-to-west-virginia/?source=dam?client=ms-android-att-us

West Virginia has needed to diversify its economy for decades so the article holds no stunning revelations. I have not lived there for 30 years but I have visited often. Although there have been some government agencies move in due to Byrd's influence, there has not been a whole sale effort to move WV's economy in a different direction and this includes the events of Manchin's terms as governor as well as others.

 

[atlkvb]

The one truth in the story is that can't be doubted is that Wyoming Coal is WV's coals biggest problem

Maybe. It depends on a lot of other factors that article didn't mention...infrastructure chief among them.

It's a lot easier to get WV Coal to market because of built in advantages to transportation & production facilities mostly on the Eastern side of the country. Getting it out from the Mountains of Wyoming to market is not as easy or cheap.

There are other advantages to WV Coal but no need to get into all that on a Sports message board. Suffice it to say that article was a particular point of view, not a complete objective analysis of the entire situation about WV Coal.

 

[atlkvb]

Media bias...shew. Let's revisit this conversation in four years and see exactly how much Trump and Manchin can turn coal around. Want to define "huge boost", so that we have a proper benchmark to evaluate?

Well JWBinDC, I'd start by defining it as growing in production and expansion of uses instead of "dead" like President Obama and Mrs. Clinton pronounced.

We'll see.

 

[Bville]

Coal is not dead. May not be what it once was. I would be willing to bet, there will be additional coal fired generating stations built in the near future.

 

[atlkvb]

Coal is not dead. May not be what it once was. I would be willing to bet, there will be additional coal fired generating stations built in the near future.

Clean coal technology is one of the best kept secrets in the Media.

Imagine why?

 

[JWBinDC]

Clean coal technology is one of the best kept secrets in the Media.

Imagine why?

Tell me more about this clean coal. How does it compare to natural gas, solar and wind?

 

[wvtinman]

Amazing how they continue to recycle the same names, same families, same policies...when the state sorely needs new ideas and a breath of fresh air.

New ideas and progress is the enemy of WV.

 

[TIREPUNK]

Obama did no such thing since it wasn't his law to begin with, but okay?

If you're talking about the NC law that McCrory signed, a major part of the backlash came from allowing state employees to deny services to gay people, citing religious beliefs. That's ridiculous.

Just own it dude....

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...throom-policy-says-order-is-based-on-law.html

 

[Bville]

Tell me more about this clean coal. How does it compare to natural gas, solar and wind?

Solar and wind are still way too expensive to deploy. Not that they aren't being deployed, they are, with government subsidies. The storage mechanism (batteries) for solar is way too expensive for most people. Wind turbines are usually very remotely located, making it difficult and expensive to get what little power they generate back to the grid in a usable fashion. There is also the issue of rectifying DC to AC which is used to power our homes. Additionally, they ruin the landscape. Gas is another story. More economical to harvest and transport, a good fuel source, but is dangerous to apply. Explosive, could be a good description. Gas, IMO is still much better than solar and wind. Gas (oil) and coal should be the primary energy resources we utilize in my humble opinion.

If solar and wind are so good, why do they have to be subsidized to be utilized?

 

[tjebarr]

Solar and wind are still way too expensive to deploy. Not that they aren't being deployed, they are, with government subsidies. The storage mechanism (batteries) for solar is way too expensive for most people. Wind turbines are usually very remotely located, making it difficult and expensive to get what little power they generate back to the grid in a usable fashion. There is also the issue of rectifying DC to AC which is used to power our homes. Additionally, they ruin the landscape. Gas is another story. More economical to harvest and transport, a good fuel source, but is dangerous to apply. Explosive, could be a good description. Gas, IMO is still much better than solar and wind. Gas (oil) and coal should be the primary energy resources we utilize in my humble opinion.

If solar and wind are so good, why do they have to be subsidized to be utilized?

Mineral County is full of wind mills

 

[The Elf]

Mineral County is full of wind mills

Perhaps they should change the name to Wind County.

 

[43rd Parallel]

Coal is not dead. May not be what it once was. I would be willing to bet, there will be additional coal fired generating stations built in the near future.

Coal is West Virginia -- wouldn't be the state it is without coal.

If you think about it, coal largely explains why we're as forward-thinking and prosperous as we are.

 

[The Elf]

forward-thinking and prosperous

Not two terms I often hear in reference to WV.

 

[Bville]

Mineral County is full of wind mills

I don't like them. I think they are eye sores to such a beautiful state as ours. They aren't that efficient either. I am speaking of the commercial GE wind turbines, not the small ones you would find on a farm or for residential purposes. Just my opinion.

 

[tjebarr]

I don't like them. I think they are eye sores to such a beautiful state as ours. They aren't that efficient either. I am speaking of the commercial GE wind turbines, not the small ones you would find on a farm or for residential purposes. Just my opinion.

I hate them too but better than this.

 

[atlkvb]

Tell me more about this clean coal. How does it compare to natural gas, solar and wind?

The other poster did a pretty good job outlining some obvious advantages of Coal.

Here's some more links on the technology itself if you're interested:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/clean-coal.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_coal_technology

http://cleancoaltechnologiesinc.com/

 

[Mountie1]

I hate them too but better than this.

View embedded media

You can look at any earth moving project and say that. Go back and look at some of those that are finished and reclaimed. Or go look at Mingo Central High School that those kids get to attend.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

This shows how Trump is a political genius*. The coal jobs just are not coming back, period. China is transitioning to nuclear and solar...and all of Europe is planning to stop using coal all together by 2030 or so. But he sure did promise that they would come back. So he wants to appoint Joe Manchin. Looks good on paper to the coal people. But it won't matter. And this way when it all goes awry, he can get a Democrat to take the fall. Manchin is one hell of a politician*, too, he might see this coming down the pike and decline.

*by politician, I mean being able to "play the game", not necessarily their actual governing skills or talent.

 

[atlkvb]

This shows how Trump is a political genius*. The coal jobs just are not coming back, period. China is transitioning to nuclear and solar...and all of Europe is planning to stop using coal all together by 2030 or so. But he sure did promise that they would come back. So he wants to appoint Joe Manchin. Looks good on paper to the coal people. But it won't matter. And this way when it all goes awry, he can get a Democrat to take the fall. Manchin is one hell of a politician*, too, he might see this coming down the pike and decline.

*by politician, I mean being able to "play the game", not necessarily their actual governing skills or talent.

Most major power plants in the US still use coal to generate electricity. It is by far the cheapest, most abundant, and most widely used energy source for electrical power generation in U.S. based plants, and will likely remain so for the foreseeable future provided modern technologies are utilized to burn it cleaner and more efficiently. Source:
http://web.mit.edu/coal/.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Most major power plants in the US still use coal to generate electricity. It is by far the cheapest, most abundant, and most widely used energy source for electrical power generation in U.S. based plants, and will likely remain so for the foreseeable future provided modern technologies are utilized to burn it cleaner and more efficiently. Source:
http://web.mit.edu/coal/.

That's almost 10 years old. Back then, they thought oil was going to go to $200 a barrel and the great recession wasn't even thought about yet.

 

[tjebarr]

Most major power plants in the US still use coal to generate electricity. It is by far the cheapest, most abundant, and most widely used energy source for electrical power generation in U.S. based plants, and will likely remain so for the foreseeable future provided modern technologies are utilized to burn it cleaner and more efficiently. Source:


http://web.mit.edu/coal/.

Coal's demise threatens Appalachian miners, firms as production moves West
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.usatoday.com/story/82972958/?client=ms-android-att-us

 

[atlkvb]

Coal's demise threatens Appalachian miners, firms as production moves West
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.usatoday.com/story/82972958/?client=ms-android-att-us

Coal isn't going anywhere my friend, in WV or otherwise. It's good for the Country, and it's still good for West Virginia.

C=Clean
O=Omnipresent
A=Affordable
L=Life giving

 

[BobbyBoucheer]

Tell me more about this clean coal. How does it compare to natural gas, solar and wind?

It just dawned on me, you live in or around DC. Tyson's Corner perhaps?

 

[atlkvb]

That's almost 10 years old. Back then, they thought oil was going to go to $200 a barrel and the great recession wasn't even thought about yet.

Clean Coal technology has improved to the point where nearly all environmental hazards from Coal's perceived more dangerous emissions have been virtually eliminated.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/clean-coal1.htm
http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/clean-coal1.htm

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Clean coal technology has improved to the point where nearly all environmental hazards from Coal's perceived more dangerous emissions have been virtually eliminated.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/clean-coal1.htm

That's all well and good, but that doesn't change the fact that natural gas is just killing coal domestically right now. Add in a dramatic decrease in foreign demand and it isn't a good place for WV coal. And that's not even to consider the fact that Elon Musk's SolarCity are developing roofing material that cost the same as traditional roofs, yet have solar cells in them. What will that do to the market if that become ubiquitous? Within 20 years, you are going to see widespread adoption of solar energy in the US. And the reasons for it are not about the environment...its about how cheap you can power your home.

WV needs to diversify. The longer they stay in denial and on the teet of big coal, the more it will hurt them long term.

 

[atlkvb]

That's all well and good, but that doesn't change the fact that natural gas is just killing coal domestically right now. Add in a dramatic decrease in foreign demand and it isn't a good place for WV coal. And that's not even to consider the fact that Elon Musk's SolarCity are developing roofing material that cost the same as traditional roofs, yet have solar cells in them. What will that do to the market if that become ubiquitous? Within 20 years, you are going to see widespread adoption of solar energy in the US. And the reasons for it are not about the environment...its about how cheap you can power your home.

WV needs to diversify. The longer they stay in denial and on the teet of big coal, the more it will hurt them long term.

I'm an "all of the above" when it comes to energy. I say open up innovation, markets, new sources, new technologies...whatever works best and is cheapest should be the way we go.

I'm just not ruling out Coal because of the fact it can be burned cheaper, cleaner, and is still the most available for our use right now. Why not use it as best as we can until some of the newer sexier stuff is developed to compete more favorably against it?

We need more energy now, and we need it cheaper. Not less energy that's more expensive!

Coal is THAT 'more/cheaper' answer for us now.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Natural gas is the cheapest right now, though.

 

[atlkvb]

Natural gas is the cheapest right now, though.

That's only because the Feds are restricting the use of Coal which makes it less available in supply. Remove those restrictions, increase supplies, and it's Coal that's cheapest Baby!

 

[anon_zft7bawebck2a]

Well, that's 10 minutes I will never get back... People have a right to their views just like I have a right to mine.. What I don't understand is how some of you point out your sources as FOX, NBC, etc. They all have their agendas and I would never use them as a source. All I am going to say is that I hope there is still a United States in 4 years. Trump is going to piss off every country except Russia and when those countries tell us to go stick it up our backsides or decides not to do business with us we will see how bad things get.
By the way Bernie only became a democrat so he could run for president. He has been an independent most of his life. As a "Social Democrat" (not the same as a communist) look at other presidents who were SDs, Roosevelt would be the best example... What do you think "SOCIAL" security is all about?
All these manufacturing jobs he has promised to bring back. What a joke that is. There are no more assembly lines like there used to be. Robotics has seen to that. Plus, we do not have the infrastructure for these jobs either.
I hope I am wrong and things work out but I'm not going to be holding my breath.
I agree we need at least another party or better yet, do away with them all together and get the best people to run our country.

 

[atlkvb]

Well, that's 10 minutes I will never get back... People have a right to their views just like I have a right to mine.. What I don't understand is how some of you point out your sources as FOX, NBC, etc. They all have their agendas and I would never use them as a source. All I am going to say is that I hope there is still a United States in 4 years. Trump is going to piss off every country except Russia and when those countries tell us to go stick it up our backsides or decides not to do business with us we will see how bad things get.
By the way Bernie only became a democrat so he could run for president. He has been an independent most of his life. As a "Social Democrat" (not the same as a communist) look at other presidents who were SDs, Roosevelt would be the best example... What do you think "SOCIAL" security is all about?
All these manufacturing jobs he has promised to bring back. What a joke that is. There are no more assembly lines like there used to be. Robotics has seen to that. Plus, we do not have the infrastructure for these jobs either.
I hope I am wrong and things work out but I'm not going to be holding my breath.
I agree we need at least another party or better yet, do away with them all together and get the best people to run our country.

GW Bush called it the "soft bigotry of low expectations"

 

[atlkvb]

Within 20 years, you are going to see widespread adoption of solar energy in the US. And the reasons for it are not about the environment...its about how cheap you can power your home.

WVUPharm2007 I grew up in upstate New York where for about 5 or 6 months out of the year the Sun hardly ever comes out, much less provides enough warmth during the day to even melt all of the snow & ice!

I mean Solar is fine for some milder climates where there is abundant sunshine, but in many other parts of the country, especially the upper Midwest, Great Lakes, and Northeast where there is heavy weather (ie: wind, rain, snow, and ice) solar roof panels are not only impractical...they just would not work.

Too cold, not enough sunlight or even daylight for that matter.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

WVUPharm2007 I grew up in upstate New York where for about 5 or 6 months out of the year the Sun hardly ever comes out, much less provides enough warmth during the day to even melt all of the snow & ice!

I mean Solar is fine for some milder climates where there is abundant sunshine, but in many other parts of the country, especially the upper Midwest, Great Lakes, and Northeast where there is heavy weather (ie: wind, rain, snow, and ice) solar roof panels are not only impractical...they just would not work.

Too cold, not enough sunlight or even daylight for that matter.

Not true. I live in Philly and I've had my roof analyzed by a solar company. I could install on my roof right now for under $10,000 and it will provide enough energy to power my house year round, even in the Winter. Also, temperature doesn't affect it.

 

[atlkvb]

Not true. I live in Philly and I've had my roof analyzed by a solar company. I could install on my roof right now for under $10,000 and it will provide enough energy to power my house year round, even in the Winter. Also, temperature doesn't affect it.

All I know is there was a big push to convert a lot of the older oil heated homes in Western New York back at the turn of the Millennium into Solar, and study after study showed the climate just would not support it mostly because of the lack of sufficient hours of daylight/sunlight...not to mention all of the other factors like heavy snow fall on roofs, ice, and very, very cold temps...like sub zero during the day, and even colder at night!

They just could not make it work economically or practically.

 

[atlkvb]

Also, temperature doesn't affect it.

The problem with the colder weather in that part of the country WVUPharm2007 and those Solar roof panels is they can get all caked up with heavy ice & snow. Then they have a tendency to get heavy, and in some cases they can crack or they'll just shatter from being so cold & brittle with all of that weight on them.

You can also actually see long strands of icicles hanging on the sides of the houses from the tops of roofs as a portion of the ice sometimes melts and drains during the day when it's warmer (like in the 20's)...well all that runoff freezes quickly again in the evening, then when the wind blows it can send those ice chards flying!

All it takes is one of those things to crack a few solar panels and the whole system shuts down.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

The problem with the colder weather in that part of the country WVUPharm2007 and those Solar roof panels is they can get all caked up with heavy ice & snow. Then they have a tendency to get heavy, and in some cases they can crack or they'll just shatter from being so cold & brittle with all of that weight on them.

You can also actually see long strands of icicles hanging on the sides of the houses from the tops of roofs as a portion of the ice sometimes melts and drains during the day when it's warmer (like in the 20's)...well all that runoff freezes quickly again in the evening, then when the wind blows it can send those ice chards flying!

All it takes is one of those things to crack a few solar panels and the whole system shuts down.

The new ones have heat coils that don't allow for that to happen. Look into what Tesla/SolarCity are doing. It's amazing stuff.