GOR......Ironclad ??

[Orlaco]

(....a copy from a post I made in another thread that I believe deserves it's own discussion...plus I added a link that better explains my opinion....)

For the people hanging their hats on the GOR,

It's just another contract (bylaw really) clause. Sure, it makes leaving a conference a bit more tricky (expensive)....more so for the more popular schools (in the case of the Big 12 that would be Texas).

A school can simply break the contract.....it's not like they still couldn't grant the rights to another conference and refuse to share them with The Big 12. A school that does this would just have to pay damages and there is only damages if the Big 12 makes less TV money.

With all the schools that recently left the Big 12 it's making more money THAN EVER. Good luck convincing a court WVU leaving the Big 12 and adding another school (and they would add AT LEAST one to get back to ten) while still making the same money (again....networks didn't penalize the Big 12 when teams left) was actually 'damage'.

At least in the case of the Big 12 the 'buyout' bylaw is still the biggest obstacle for a team that wants to leave....basically they state a team must pay the equivalent of two years of income (from conference contracts). That 'base' would be pushing 50 million before factoring in other income....

 

[Cheers]

DOOOMED!:weary:

 

[Orlaco]

DOOOMED!:weary:

Thx for the reply that shows both your intellectual depth and level of maturity.

 

[GetYaNumbersUp]

If Texas wants to leave, they'll leave. Simple as that and they will figure out a way to snake out of the GOR. That's how lawyers "earn" their keep.

If Texas leaves, so long Big 12. OU leaves also and then there are 8 schools that can't find a home. Maybe KU to the Big 10? That's all I can think of.

 

[dogeered_again]

So... what's your point? This subject has been hashed and re-hashed to death. Will you make some sausage from the original hash?

 

[Orlaco]

So... what's your point? This subject has been hashed and re-hashed to death. Will you make some sausage from the original hash?

I've never seen a discussion on this forum about the 'power' of the GOR. Feel free to share a link if it exist.

My point ? You seemingly have the ability to read....so revisit the opening post and attempt to digest the words.....it's all there.

 

[Orlaco]

If Texas wants to leave, they'll leave. Simple as that and they will figure out a way to snake out of the GOR. That's how lawyers "earn" their keep.

If Texas leaves, so long Big 12. OU leaves also and then there are 8 schools that can't find a home. Maybe KU to the Big 10? That's all I can think of.

I agree.... ...but I'm talking GOR across the board. It's JUST NOT so sound that it locks in P5 schools to their current conference. Your reply shows you agree at least regarding Texas. I'd argue that the bigger 'brand' schools are more bound by GOR than say....WVU. Any single school that would make TV networks renegotiate a conference contract have less wiggle room in regard to financial damages.

 

[GetYaNumbersUp]

I agree.... ...but I'm talking GOR across the board. It's JUST NOT so sound that it locks in P5 schools to their current conference. Your reply shows you agree at least regarding Texas. I'd argue that the bigger 'brand' schools are more bound by GOR than say....WVU. Any single school that would make TV networks renegotiate a conference contract have less wiggle room in regard to financial damages.

I'm not an attorney. I don't know "how iron clad" the GOR is, what I do know is that Texas would be stupid to sign their life away on an agreement that in which they can't escape. I'm assuming that the folks making these decisions at UT aren't stupid, but who knows.

Schools like WVU (unfortunately), and nearly every other Big 12 school have no other options so they are happy to sign a GOR because it gives them at least some stability. If the Big 12 folds and Texas leaves, no other schools have options (maybe OU and maybe KU can find a home) this league becomes CUSA and everyone is screwed.

 

[dogeered_again]

Contracts are meant to be broken. As a former contract negotiator, I know about the loopholes and if there aren't any (aka the "ironclad" contract) it can still be broken. It's all about the $! Just don't put Obama and his illustrious State Department team on this issue with (oh... Iran... as an example) on the problem.

 

[Buckaineer]

grants of rights are not bylaws and aren't easily broken or any such nonsense.

More importantly no one is trying to break them.

 

[Orlaco]

grants of rights are not bylaws and aren't easily broken or any such nonsense.

More importantly no one is trying to break them.

Do a search of big 12 bylaws... ...and then come back and apologize.

 

[BobbyBoucheer]

LowFatMilk is great in the types of threads. I wish she would show up with some insight.

 

[fprio]

I agree with the OP. but then again Frank usually does...

 

[Buckaineer]

Do a search of big 12 bylaws... ...and then come back and apologize.

There will be no apology because you are 100% wrong. The BIG 12 bylaws reference the grants of rights. The grants of rights are not the same thing as the bylaws. They are legal assignments of rights ratified by banks of lawyers and the board of trustees of the various schools--signed by the presidents. They are legally binding agreements that aren't "easily broken" as you suggest and they most certainly aren't like buyout clauses.

 

[HurdyGurdyEer]

There will be no apology because you are 100% wrong. The BIG 12 bylaws reference the grants of rights. The grants of rights are not the same thing as the bylaws. They are legal assignments of rights ratified by banks of lawyers and the board of trustees of the various schools--signed by the presidents. They are legally binding agreements that aren't "easily broken" as you suggest and they most certainly aren't like buyout clauses.

Looks to me like Buckaineer lays down a scorched earth post.
Waiting to see if there is any life left after this carpet bombing.

 

[xWVU2010x]

There will be no apology because you are 100% wrong. The BIG 12 bylaws reference the grants of rights. The grants of rights are not the same thing as the bylaws. They are legal assignments of rights ratified by banks of lawyers and the board of trustees of the various schools--signed by the presidents. They are legally binding agreements that aren't "easily broken" as you suggest and they most certainly aren't like buyout clauses.

No idea about any type of contract law outside of a single BCOR class at WVU, but coming from a business background, I cannot possibly fathom schools like Texas and OU signing something that would prevent them from leaving especially given the entire weight of the conference from a negotiating perspective rides or dies with them.

 

[Buckaineer]

No idea about any type of contract law outside of a single BCOR class at WVU, but coming from a business background, I cannot possibly fathom schools like Texas and OU signing something that would prevent them from leaving especially given the entire weight of the conference from a negotiating perspective rides or dies with them.

Where do you come up with this stuff? Texas and OU signed the same GOR as everyone else. Just like FSU signed a gor in the ACC, Ohio State signed a gor in the Big Ten and Oregon signed a gor in the Pac 12.

Schools can leave the BIG 12--but their media rights through 2025 remain with the BIG 12 and that means hundreds of millions of dollars.

Considering Texas and OU and everyone else made the commitment to keep the BIG 12 together less than five years ago this entire conversation is a joke anyway. They chose to stay and now they are choosing to expand.

 

[xWVU2010x]

Where do you come up with this stuff? Texas and OU signed the same GOR as everyone else. Just like FSU signed a gor in the ACC, Ohio State signed a gor in the Big Ten and Oregon signed a gor in the Pac 12.

Schools can leave the BIG 12--but their media rights through 2025 remain with the BIG 12 and that means hundreds of millions of dollars.

Considering Texas and OU and everyone else made the commitment to keep the BIG 12 together less than five years ago this entire conversation is a joke anyway. They chose to stay and now they are choosing to expand.

I didn't "come up with it" its just a feeling that I have. With the way CFB is today Id be shocked if all of these GOR deals didn't have some type of verbage that could be broken. Again, I don't know crap and you could be right, I just have a hard time believing these schools are actually tying themselves down like this when there is always a chance a better conference comes calling and thus creating more revenue and visibility for their school. These schools are all whores when it comes to TV revenue, they've proven it time and time again, and I don't trust what any of them say including WVU.

 

[Orlaco]

Here's another link that questions the strength of the GOR. It ALSO questions if the wording of the contract is ironclad. Like the author, I believe we'll never know until it actually goes in front of a judge... ....and if a team wants to leave a conference it will (at least) test the strength of the agreement.

--------------

If you feel this discussion implies that I expect the Big 12 to have defectors....you're wrong. If you think this discussion about WVU's future being outside a Power Conference....you're wrong. It is exactly what I titled it....a thread that's about the strength of the GOR

If it makes you whine like you have a pulled labia and you think the conversation is a 'joke' then why continue to participate ?? ....and we all know you will.....

 

[SilverSpringWVU]

If Texas wants to leave, they'll leave. Simple as that and they will figure out a way to snake out of the GOR. That's how lawyers "earn" their keep.

If Texas leaves, so long Big 12. OU leaves also and then there are 8 schools that can't find a home. Maybe KU to the Big 10? That's all I can think of.

If programs can get out of the grant of rights the ACC has just as much to worry about as the Big 12. Lets not forget last summer everyone was talking about schools leaving the ACC. Then they signed their grant of rights and everything was safe. Life was good for them. There are quite a few Big Fish in that pond as well. If teams leave the Big 12 the ACC will be fair game as well. Once the conference alignment shift starts no one knows what the outcome will be. One school leaving can start a whole change of events.

 

[Buckaineer]

Here's another link that questions the strength of the GOR. It ALSO questions if the wording of the contract is ironclad. Like the author, I believe we'll never know until it actually goes in front of a judge... ....and if a team wants to leave a conference it will (at least) test the strength of the agreement.

--------------

If you feel this discussion implies that I expect the Big 12 to have defectors....you're wrong. If you think this discussion about WVU's future being outside a Power Conference....you're wrong. It is exactly what I titled it....a thread that's about the strength of the GOR

If it makes you whine like you have a pulled labia and you think the conversation is a 'joke' then why continue to participate ?? ....and we all know you will.....

Talk about a pulled labia. Someone sets your b.s. straight and you go into hystrionics.

 

[Mtneer001]

I don't think the b1g 10 wants to open that can of worms....testing the validity of the GOR.

now if there is a weird clause for some kind of unusual performance, then maybe the b1g. but one thing, the big12 never promised, that i know of, a conference network.

it will be interesting to see if the cost of attendance will be a factor in conference makes ups in the near future.

 

[HurdyGurdyEer]

It's just another contract (bylaw really) clause. .

That was your assertion and it has been destroyed.

 

[wbgvwbgv]

Texas and Oklahoma have the best conference arrangement in all of college football. 60% of the conference members reside in the state of Oklahoma & Texas. They have rivalries dating back to the old Southwest Conference and Big Eight days. They make as much money as any schools in the country and are situated in a great recruiting area. Fan support is awesome. What is the world can these other conferences offer them that they don't already have except more travel and the loss of in-state and historical rivalries.

And even though they explored other options in the past, none were as attractive as the current situation. IMO it is silly to think that they would ever consider the cold Big 10 and have already rejected the PAC12 . I really don't think there is any desire by the SEC to bring in Oklahoma & Texas or vise versa. How many big dogs can you have in one conference.

GOR will stop any school from leaving, but it probably isn't even necessary for Texas or Oklahoma - they aren't going anywhere.

 

[EEResistable]

(....a copy from a post I made in another thread that I believe deserves it's own discussion...plus I added a link that better explains my opinion....)

For the people hanging their hats on the GOR,

It's just another contract (bylaw really) clause. Sure, it makes leaving a conference a bit more tricky (expensive)....more so for the more popular schools (in the case of the Big 12 that would be Texas).

A school can simply break the contract.....it's not like they still couldn't grant the rights to another conference and refuse to share them with The Big 12. A school that does this would just have to pay damages and there is only damages if the Big 12 makes less TV money.

With all the schools that recently left the Big 12 it's making more money THAN EVER. Good luck convincing a court WVU leaving the Big 12 and adding another school (and they would add AT LEAST one to get back to ten) while still making the same money (again....networks didn't penalize the Big 12 when teams left) was actually 'damage'.

At least in the case of the Big 12 the 'buyout' bylaw is still the biggest obstacle for a team that wants to leave....basically they state a team must pay the equivalent of two years of income (from conference contracts). That 'base' would be pushing 50 million before factoring in other income....

And where would we go seeing as no other conference wants us?

 

[Orlaco]

And where would we go seeing as no other conference wants us?

I attempted to clarify in a later post in this thread that this is a discussion about the GOR. While I used some Big 12 schools as examples I never implied (or clearly stated) that I think any team is leaving the Big 12.

I imagine if I used the Big 10 or Big 12 picking off ACC teams as examples a certain couple of posters would be able to discuss the actual topic without getting irrationally emotional.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

None of us have read the contract and most of the specuation being spread about the GOR has come from folks with zero ability to effectively analyze this kind of document (and also haven't read it, so what's that tell you?). Keep in mind the contract was written by attorney's billing $500+/per hour for their time and knowledge and the content was considered satisfactory for all member institutions who agreed to the conditions.

My interpretation is the GOR is a layer of additional security but in the end it's nothing but a contract that can be litigated. If an university wished to leave the conference expect a period of protracted litigation and settlement.

 

[pressvirginia]

I don't even know what G-O-R stands for

But if it has to do with joining the ACC or B1G, count me out

 

[Buckaineer]

The BIG 12s lawyers, each schools lawyers and the television partners lawyers went over these agreements for months before finalizing. Then the board of trustees went over the documents word by word with their legal teams. Then the presidents and chancellors did the same.

It happened in four conferences-all of whom have concluded these sorts of agreements are indeed rock solid, not breakable, and more importantly not going to be challenged by anyone.

Then you have a few message board posters who have determined -based on nothing-that these agreements can "easily be gotten out of". Because? We'll they don't have any reason but they think so......and these people then have the gall to get all indignant when others say--not buying that nonsense.

Gotta just laugh at some I suppose.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

The BIG 12s lawyers, each schools lawyers and the television partners lawyers went over these agreements for months before finalizing. Then the board of trustees went over the documents word by word with their legal teams. Then the presidents and chancellors did the same.

It happened in four conferences-all of whom have concluded these sorts of agreements are indeed rock solid, not breakable, and more importantly not going to be challenged by anyone.

Then you have a few message board posters who have determined -based on nothing-that these agreements can "easily be gotten out of". Because? We'll they don't have any reason but they think so......and these people then have the gall to get all indignant when others say--not buying that nonsense.

Gotta just laugh at some I suppose.

Yeah, I bet. Unfortunately, none of these agreements, or disputes of these agreements have ever been brought before a judge or been subjected to protracted litigation or discovery.

 

[Orlaco]

Careful Darth.... ...his little dog with the big bark named Hurdy will soon be nipping at your ankles. ...despite being busy as a 'yes man'.
.

 

[pressvirginia]

If that's her, Britney Spears is still hot.

sorry I don't know GOR to contribute to the discussion beyond that

 

[HurdyGurdyEer]

Careful Darth.... ...his little dog with the big bark named Hurdy will soon be nipping at your ankles. ...despite being busy as a 'yes man'.
.

Woof! Woof! Bark! Bark!

Nothing you say changes the fact that you were completely out to lunch when you relegated the GOR to a mere bylaw.

What you, or anyone, asserts that schools may or may not do with the GOR is not the same as you being completely wrong about the fundamental nature of the GOR. That's where you got carpet bombed.

Bark! Bark! Woof! Woof!