B12 expansion & the Mountain Eers
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I don't see many good choices but would go with eastern teams first with UCF and after that they're all the same. No to UCONN and UC. Memphis could benefit from the move and improve.1. Should add UConn & Cincy so you can attend some road games during conference play.
2. Should not add BYU & CSU because your teams come back 3AM on weekday mornings.
3. UCF? @ least they are in your time zone.
1. Renchler Field is on a runway and they care more abiut Sox vs Yankees & womens basketball in the Fall.
Nippert is a dump and in the worst part of Cincinnati.
2. Dont care abiut them either.
3. No Directional Commuter Schools.
option 4 is best ie enjoy who we play now
Nippert is a dump and in the worst part of Cincinnati.
2. Dont care abiut them either.
3. No Directional Commuter Schools.
option 4 is best ie enjoy who we play now
The BIG 12 needs to expand. TV contracts are coming up and the league will have to negotiate for more money.
Other bigger leagues can have more teams with fewer losses so have a better shot at the playoffs. The BIG 12 needs more passionate fans and more viewers plus more positive media exposure.
If they just stay the same they'll probably have lots of difficulty with the next round of tv, not to mention getting into the playoffs.
Other bigger leagues can have more teams with fewer losses so have a better shot at the playoffs. The BIG 12 needs more passionate fans and more viewers plus more positive media exposure.
If they just stay the same they'll probably have lots of difficulty with the next round of tv, not to mention getting into the playoffs.
I went to a WVU game at UCONN many years ago. The only time the crowd got excited was when they announced the score of the Red Sox/Yankee game. By the time WVU got a couple of scores ahead in the 3rd quarter there were more Mountaineer fans in the stands than Husky fans.
Not so fast, my friend. BYU is NOT in a conference for a reason. The Mormons won't play on Sunday, and everyone knows that college football and basketball would play at 10 a.m. Sunday if TV paid them enough. Otherwise, BYU would have been in the Pac-12 or Big 12 long ago.
The conferences can work around that problem with BYU and it's going to happen if you ask me. I'm not sure it will be the Big 12 but someone will add them. I don't see how it would help WVU but it may help the Big 12.
So Cincy is a terrible idea huh...just like the Big 10 taking a team like Rutgers. oh wait......
Texas and Notre Dame have been flirting with each other for years. If Texas wants ND, and ND is willing to join for all sports, it's a done deal.
Notre Dame has more than enough money to walk away from it's hybrid deal with the ACC. It would make the Big 12 a national conference and burn the ass of the Big-10 who have been convinced for decades when the time comes that ND is forced in to conference, the Big 10 will be it.
The question would be, how do you hold a conference together with two teams that have their own TV networks?
On BYU. How would the Big-12 deal with two extra years of eligibility that Mormon athletes there now get for their missions? The kid sits for his first year, then comes back at 21, fully grown, but still a redshirt freshman? That's a huge competitive advantage I can't see any of the members of the Big 12 standing for.
Notre Dame has more than enough money to walk away from it's hybrid deal with the ACC. It would make the Big 12 a national conference and burn the ass of the Big-10 who have been convinced for decades when the time comes that ND is forced in to conference, the Big 10 will be it.
The question would be, how do you hold a conference together with two teams that have their own TV networks?
On BYU. How would the Big-12 deal with two extra years of eligibility that Mormon athletes there now get for their missions? The kid sits for his first year, then comes back at 21, fully grown, but still a redshirt freshman? That's a huge competitive advantage I can't see any of the members of the Big 12 standing for.
Hit the button too quick, Rutgers is the land grant school of NJ. They are the most popular school in that State and for a Conference TV network, that is a big State.
Cincinnati isnt the most popular school in Cincinnatti. They are no better than 2 at best and maybe behind that if we are talking basketball only. The school is not a Big XII fit. They look like Pitt playing at Heinz when they play at the Bengals Stadium. Nobody follows Cincy in Cincy. Horrible addition and will lead to a disaster.
Cincinnati isnt the most popular school in Cincinnatti. They are no better than 2 at best and maybe behind that if we are talking basketball only. The school is not a Big XII fit. They look like Pitt playing at Heinz when they play at the Bengals Stadium. Nobody follows Cincy in Cincy. Horrible addition and will lead to a disaster.
Notre Dame made their choice a few years ago and it was the ACC and that is where they are going to stay.
I'd go after some in the ACC - payback is hell. I'd start with pitt and then perhaps the Orange. As Jake and Elwood would say, "let's put the band back together."
As an outsider, I think you guys may luck out and end up in the SEC. It really is the conference that is the best fit. The only thing holding you back is TV sets in your state.
Cincy is a terrible idea. There are no good options for expansion unless the big 12 steals from another power 5 conference. There's a reason cincy hasn't been invited to the acc, big 10, sec. They bring nothing to the table. Rutgers at least had the ny/nj area even though they can care less about them.
A company used Facebook "likes" to come up with each zip code in the country's favorite college football team. Long story short, Rutgers was only the "favorite" team in Central NJ in the area right around Piscataway. PSU was the favorite team in North Jersey and South Jersey. Cincinnati was not listed as one of the Top 3 teams in any of the Cincy zip codes. It was OSU, Mich, Kentucky. I was surprised by this and would have thought Cincy would have been #2 behind OSU or #3 behind OSU and ND but ND didnt even make that list.
FWIW, Pitt was the #1 team in the suburban Pittsburgh area but once you get to the hinterlands of Fayette and Greene County, PSU and WVU take over. Those farmers, hunters, and miners identify more with WVU and PSU.
Surprisingly, WVU was not listed as one of the Top 3 teams in any zip code in the Pittsburgh area. Ohio State shows up as #3. I would have thought it would have been ND. There seem to be more ND fans here than OSU and WVU.
Sean Miller,
I don't think Facebook is at all scientific or a good population sample in terms of statistics or analysis. It eliminates over 50% of the population who have no desire to put their lives online and give up privacy. (Honestly I have never even been on it and I can guarantee I wont EVER BE..) It is also generational. My age and the fact I'm a male alll but guarantees I'm not on it.
At one time I'd have agreed with PSU on Jersey, but nowadays I'd take Rutgers in Jersey. Either way the B1G network makes more $$$$$ off of cable subscriptions when a member school is in that State. This is why Rutgers and Maryland were valuable additions to the B1G.
As for Cincinnati, they're not a Big XII school. 8 of the 10 Big XII schools are public schools . 9 of 10 are named after a State or have the name of a state in them. Baylor is the outlyer and that place is pretty down home from my 1 trip. Bottom line is everyone really has a good atmosphere for football and good support (except Kansas but Heck James Naismith invented basketball so what do you expect?). Bottom line no urban schools named after cities in the Big XII.
As for Sean Miller, I'd want him over Jamie Dixon too.
I don't think Facebook is at all scientific or a good population sample in terms of statistics or analysis. It eliminates over 50% of the population who have no desire to put their lives online and give up privacy. (Honestly I have never even been on it and I can guarantee I wont EVER BE..) It is also generational. My age and the fact I'm a male alll but guarantees I'm not on it.
At one time I'd have agreed with PSU on Jersey, but nowadays I'd take Rutgers in Jersey. Either way the B1G network makes more $$$$$ off of cable subscriptions when a member school is in that State. This is why Rutgers and Maryland were valuable additions to the B1G.
As for Cincinnati, they're not a Big XII school. 8 of the 10 Big XII schools are public schools . 9 of 10 are named after a State or have the name of a state in them. Baylor is the outlyer and that place is pretty down home from my 1 trip. Bottom line is everyone really has a good atmosphere for football and good support (except Kansas but Heck James Naismith invented basketball so what do you expect?). Bottom line no urban schools named after cities in the Big XII.
As for Sean Miller, I'd want him over Jamie Dixon too.
I dont think Facebook has to be scientific. You either click "like" if you like a team or you don't. If you liked a team enough to click "like" then you probably do like them. Now, how much you like them is another story. But it seems to be a better guage than some random online or mall poll.
I agree it eliminates some demographics, mostly those over 40 who use Facebook less. Facebook is primarily for a younger demographic but in many ways that makes the study even more important. Advertisers care most about the 18-40 year old crowd. So if NJ is a "PSU state" for 18-40 year olds, that's pretty much all that matters. And PS, I highly doubt the old fogies in NJ who have watched Rutgers suck their whole lives have taken up their cause. They would do better with the younger crowd anyway.
Texas isn't going to let you expand. It doesn't make sense for them. But, hypothetically, if you added 2 teams, they'd have to be:
1. BYU (historically good football and basketball, big fanbase)
2. Central Florida (great TV market, new football stadium and basketball arena, FL recruiting)
If expansion is on the horizon, I agree. BYU and Central Florida could bring additional value. But as already pointed out, BYU brings a new set of issues. From a WVU perspective, long distance travel will continue to be a reality as long as we are a B12 member. Those two schools would not change travel much except for adding another time zone a couple of times a year. From an availability standpoint, they appear to be the best choices. The only other school that I believe should be considered is Memphis for reasons already given.
I'm in with saying expansion needs to happen, but adding teams just for the sake of expansion isn't the right thing to do either. The conference needs to be patient. $30million a year will get peoples attention. I think BYU is a viable option. But who for the 12th member? It's my opinion that the conference needs to be ever vigilant for that school while letting BYU know that they have a home as soon as that school emerges. It would be great if some eastern schools were added for WVU's sake. But at this point it'd be better to get two great programs who can add something to the conference's pedigree.
just add byu and uconn and be done with it. Byu is a given. Uconn is the best option left of the mid majors. If the expansion hand is forced, that's who you go for.
Ten is a perfect number for a football conference. The Big 12 has little reason to expand unless it brings in top-drawer programs that add value to everyone's bottom line.
If any conference should be worried, it's the ACC.
Let's use Florida State as an example. As I understand it, FSU now earns roughly $20 million a year less than what the SEC is paying Florida.
How many years can the good people in Tallahassee put up with that sort of disparity before it begins to sting? And who's to say the gap won't widen?
But if Florida State were to jump to the Big 12, it could be looking at SEC-like money. (The Big 12 is paying out roughly $10 million a year less than the SEC, but the addition of a Florida State would add value.)
Yes, a $50 million buyout is a lot of money, but if the payback is $20 million a year, it becomes prudence not insanity.
If any conference should be worried, it's the ACC.
Let's use Florida State as an example. As I understand it, FSU now earns roughly $20 million a year less than what the SEC is paying Florida.
How many years can the good people in Tallahassee put up with that sort of disparity before it begins to sting? And who's to say the gap won't widen?
But if Florida State were to jump to the Big 12, it could be looking at SEC-like money. (The Big 12 is paying out roughly $10 million a year less than the SEC, but the addition of a Florida State would add value.)
Yes, a $50 million buyout is a lot of money, but if the payback is $20 million a year, it becomes prudence not insanity.
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I know you guys dream of an ACC demise...but it's just not happening. I agree when everything shakes out...the ACC may lose some members and gain others. It's becoming pretty obvious OU is not happy...just as Miami wasn't happy with the Big East. Nobody in the ACC is going public with their dissatisfaction.
All of this being said, TV sets are becoming less relevant as online content takes over. This benefits WVU since TV sets have always been it's downfall. When everything shakes out I see WVU in either the ACC or SEC.
All of this being said, TV sets are becoming less relevant as online content takes over. This benefits WVU since TV sets have always been it's downfall. When everything shakes out I see WVU in either the ACC or SEC.
Your information is completely incorrect. The SEC paid out $31.2 million per team this year. Last year, the ACC paid out $22.1 million per team. That figure will go up this year, as the new CFP money will come in.
This year, the Big 12 paid out $27 million. Your figures are nowhere near being accurate.
I agree that the Big 12 is sitting pretty. I disagree that we should only consider 'top-drawer' programs. A strong, yet small, conference like the Big 12 needs to invest in the future....and that includes at least considering adding schools with strong 'potential'. Those schools do exist.
The Big 12 will collapse if either of the top two teams leaves (despite that most feel the GOR is unbreakable). It will also fold if two or more 'other' teams beat feet. The conference has absolutely no depth to deal with one or more teams leaving AGAIN.
....and think about that...our new conference really has been getting raped since the beginning of the modern realignment .
I could live with that - but Memphis is still not in the eastern time zone. I like Memphis and Cincy. Cincy would be our partenr and Memphis would be Iowa State's partner.
I believe you are omitting Tier 3 revenues from your comparison, but money is money.
There was a good conversation about this topic on the Blue Lot earlier in the week. Here are numbers given in that thread for revenues circa 2018:
ACC: $31.6 million (includes avg tier 3 "alternative media")
Pac 12: $34.8 million (includes generous tier 3 estimate from p12 network & AT&T deal)
Big 12: $42.6 million (avg tier 3)
Big 10: $45 million
SEC: $49.6 million
And I would quote this observation from a poster named BoHed, who appears to be well informed on the conference compensation packages:
"It's also going to be interesting to see if FSU and Clemson continue to stay content earning $20 million less per year than their SEC counterparts."
Sorry, your numbers are just completely wrong. You took a post from somebody on a message board and ran with it, because you like the numbers.
Let me deal with your Tier 3 statement first. You previously said this:
That was your premise, the payout from the conference. Ok, well Tier 3 deals are specific to each team. They don't come from the conference. So, the first problem is if you are comparing conference payouts, then individual deals don't apply to that comparison. Second, since Tier 3 deals are specific to each school, then those payouts aren't really going to change, regardless of conference affiliation. For example, NC State isn't going to all of a sudden get $10 million a year from Tier 3, even if they joined another conference. NC State's individual worth doesn't change.
Now here's your next problem. It was reported some time ago that the Big Ten projected a $45-50 million payout several years down the road. Well, what you are leaving out is that this $45 million is not just the TV contract. It's playoff money, bowl money, basketball money, etc. Everybody gets that money, so you have to factor that in for all conferences. You can't just add it in for some and not others, because it's not an accurate comparison.
The other problem is that these TV contracts all have escalator clauses. The payout increases over time. That's another reason the Big Ten payout increase over the years, because the TV contract naturally goes up. Well, you have to add that in for all conferences. Again, you can't just add it in for some to make the gap look bigger.
Edit: One other point about Tier 3. In your figures, you specifically indicated Tier 3 for some conferences, but not for others. Is Tier 3 included for the SEC and Big Ten in your figures as well? If it's not, then you didn't properly include Tier 3 yourself.
As I tried to make clear, these are not my numbers. I cannot vouch for them, but the gentleman who posted them has a track record. He seems well-informed.
He's certainly not an idiot, which is why I don't believe there is any chance that he included Tier 3 money for three conferences but not for two others.
I have no idea if the ACC is in tall cotton, as you seem to imply. I do remember reading this commentary from Forbes.
I didn't imply the ACC is in "tall cotton." What I'm telling you is, the discrepancy in the payouts now is what you can expect in the future. You can believe what you want to believe, but the projections you are quoting are not accurate.
Give me a breakdown of where that money is coming from. The only contract still left to renegotiate is the Big Ten's ESPN deal. Aside from that everything is locked in. If you are going to say it's from the conference networks, then you are going to have to show me where that money will come from. For example, the SEC made about $5.5 million from the network this year. They currently have 87 million subscribers. The number of households in the SEC footprint is 34 million. They only get the $1.30 subscription rate for in-footprint subscribers. (Outside the footprint, the rate is 25 cents.) They have mostly maxed out the in-footprint subscribers. They only way you can account for that much of an increase is if you include the other income, like CFP, bowls, etc.
Let me specifically deal with the link you posted. This author says the problem with the ACC is that it signed its Tier 3 TV rights to ESPN. Well, do you realize that everyone else had done that as well? The SEC had to sign all of its Tier 3 rights to ESPN for the SECN. The Big Ten had to sign all of its Tier 3 rights to Fox for the BTN. The Pac 12 had to sign all of its Tier 3 rights to its network. The only conference that has Tier 3 rights left is the Big 12.
Now, let me make a clarification about this. The rights that have been signed over are the Tier 3 TV rights. All these schools still have their multimedia Tier 3 rights (like radio). The point being, the ACC has the same Tier 3 rights situation as all the other leagues, aside from the Big 12. So, if an ACC team jumped to the SEC or Big Ten, for example, they wouldn't be able to sign this huge Tier 3 contract with IMG, for example, because they wouldn't have any extra rights than they did before.
Everyone is hating on BYUbut they are the only program left with a name brand, a massive fan following, resources and a National Championship in football. I like the other two ok but they do not have the same cache' in football as compared to BYU. NoT to mention that it is located in a major market in some of the most beautiful country in the U.S. BYU first then wait on the next ACC team to become disgruntled in their weak conference.1. Should add UConn & Cincy so you can attend some road games during conference play.
2. Should not add BYU & CSU because your teams come back 3AM on weekday mornings.
3. UCF? @ least they are in your time zone.
I think FSU went 'semi-public', but their GOR will only let them talk so loud. Ouch. $50M is a chunk. Wonder if UT would consider opening the wallet for FSU and another? OU is definitely making noise, but they are tied at the hip w/ The Pokes. One goes, they both do, so things could get crazy, could... it's just off-season fodder for now. Fun stuff too.
