WVU needs a potful of miracles

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers]

PLAYOFF RANKINGS
1. Alabama
2. Clemson
3. Notre Dame
4. Michigan
5. Georgia
6. Oklahoma
7. LSU
8. Washington State
9. West Virginia

The main hope for WVU getting in, if the Mountaineers win the Big 12 title and have an 11-1 record, is college football’s strong suit: Unpredictability.

Because what "experts" think will happen doesn’t give WVU much of a path to the Football Final Four.

This doesn’t take into consideration conference title games, which might help WVU more than what’s left of the regular season.

Alabama would have to demolish Georgia Dec. 1 to help WVU. Auburn, UMass and Georgia Tech certainly aren’t likely to beat the Bulldogs.

Oklahoma State and Kansas aren’t likely to derail Oklahoma. WVU will have to do it face-to-face. Twice.

LSU has Arkansas, Rice and Texas A&M. Not very hopeful there.

Notre Dame has Florida State, Syracuse and Southern Cal. Sure hope the Orange have a good game. Otherwise the Irish’s pansy schedule, other than Michigan, will keep ND unbeaten.

Washington State, STILL ahead of WVU for some reason, has Colorado, Arizona and Washington. Maybe Rich’s son, Rhett, the Arizona QB, can help his dad’s former WVU team with an upset? Probably not.

Again, the best bet: College football’s unpredictability. As Dana keeps saying, WVU needs to just keep winning the next game and the next game and the next game. Then we’ll see what happens to the rest of the college football world.

Climbing from #9 to #4 is a really, really talk mountain to climb. WVU can only win out. But it still will need a ton of help from other teams who aren't expected to upset teams ranked above the Mountaineers.

We'll see. It's not over till you see the final scoreboard score.

M agnificent Grier passes shredded Tennessee, 40-14
O verhelmed drenched Youngstown, 52-17
U nable to play North Carolina State because of Hurricane Florence
N asty defense against Kansas State, 35-6
T errific, then timid on offense against Texas Tech, 42-34
A ntsy time for fans, vs. Kansas!, 38-22
I ncomprehensible insanely indescribably inept offense against Iowa State, 14-30
N ailed Baylor, 58-14
E rectile dysfunctioned Texas on 2-point PAT, 42-41
E viscerate TCU
R eam Oklahoma State
S laughter Oklahoma

 

[CAJUNEER]

PLAYOFF RANKINGS
1. Alabama
2. Clemson
3. Notre Dame
4. Michigan
5. Georgia
6. Oklahoma
7. LSU
8. Washington State
9. West Virginia

The main hope for WVU getting in, if the Mountaineers win the Big 12 title and have an 11-1 record, is college football’s strong suit: Unpredictability.

Because what "experts" think will happen doesn’t give WVU much of a path to the Football Final Four.

This doesn’t take into consideration conference title games, which might help WVU more than what’s left of the regular season.

Alabama would have to demolish Georgia Dec. 1 to help WVU. Auburn, UMass and Georgia Tech certainly aren’t likely to beat the Bulldogs.

Oklahoma State and Kansas aren’t likely to derail Oklahoma. WVU will have to do it face-to-face. Twice.

LSU has Arkansas, Rice and Texas A&M. Not very hopeful there.

Notre Dame has Florida State, Syracuse and Southern Cal. Sure hope the Orange have a good game. Otherwise the Irish’s pansy schedule, other than Michigan, will keep ND unbeaten.

Washington State, STILL ahead of WVU for some reason, has Colorado, Arizona and Washington. Maybe Rich’s son, Rhett, the Arizona QB, can help his dad’s former WVU team with an upset? Probably not.

Again, the best bet: College football’s unpredictability. As Dana keeps saying, WVU needs to just keep winning the next game and the next game and the next game. Then we’ll see what happens to the rest of the college football world.

Climbing from #9 to #4 is a really, really talk mountain to climb. WVU can only win out. But it still will need a ton of help from other teams who aren't expected to upset teams ranked above the Mountaineers.

We'll see. It's not over till you see the final scoreboard score.

M agnificent Grier passes shredded Tennessee, 40-14
O verhelmed drenched Youngstown, 52-17
U nable to play North Carolina State because of Hurricane Florence
N asty defense against Kansas State, 35-6
T errific, then timid on offense against Texas Tech, 42-34
A ntsy time for fans, vs. Kansas!, 38-22
I ncomprehensible insanely indescribably inept offense against Iowa State, 14-30
N ailed Baylor, 58-14
E rectile dysfunctioned Texas on 2-point PAT, 42-41
E viscerate TCU
R eam Oklahoma State
S laughter Oklahoma

Not really. WVU needs to win out and for ND to lose. If favorites win every other game that would do it for us.

 

[Buster68]

Numbers 9 thru 7 are a flip of the coin. We need to get past three teams numbers 4, 5 and 6. We need to win the next 2 games and we take care of number 6 OU. #5 will get taken care of by Alabama. We need the gods to work their magic on numbers 3 and 4. If we beat OU twice, that could also do it. We still control our destiny.

 

[WhiteandSlatonWVU]

LSU lost to Tennessee! Flawed BS

 

[UloseOnthursday]

LSU lost to Tennessee! Flawed BS

LSU lost to Florida and Bama, not to Tennessee.

 

[WVUALLEN]

 

[WVUDisciples]

The biggest task is winning the rest of our games.
If we win out, we will likely play Texas in championship game since UT holds tiebreaker over OU via head-to-head win.

As far as outside help, all we need is:
1. Alabama and Clemson to win out
2. Notre Dame to lose vs. Syracuse or USC

If we win out, I'd say it's probable the outside help things will happen.

We've got no chance if Alabama loses, bc they'll still get in and the team that beats them will get in too. Same for Clemson. I think they really need to change the rules so that you have to win your conference championship game, or, if you don't have a championship game, you have to go undefeated. It's really stupid if we or OU has to beat the same top team back-to-back and a team not in a championship game basically gets a bye into the playoffs.

 

[spartansstink]

The biggest task is winning the rest of our games.
If we win out, we will likely play Texas in championship game since UT holds tiebreaker over OU via head-to-head win.

As far as outside help, all we need is:
1. Alabama and Clemson to win out
2. Notre Dame to lose vs. Syracuse or USC

If we win out, I'd say it's probable the outside help things will happen.

We've got no chance if Alabama loses, bc they'll still get in and the team that beats them will get in too. Same for Clemson. I think they really need to change the rules so that you have to win your conference championship game, or, if you don't have a championship game, you have to go undefeated. It's really stupid if we or OU has to beat the same top team back-to-back and a team not in a championship game basically gets a bye into the playoffs.

I don't quite agree. With most, but not all.

First, let's assume everything falls into place like it probably will.

Bama OR Georgia gets in. Both will have one loss, yes, but Bama's loss would occur too late for them to recover from plus a slew of other one loss teams with them.

Clemson isn't going to lose. Back to them in a minute.

Notre Dame isn't going to lose either. They have the easiest path in. They also have the virtue of beating Michigan even though the remainder of their schedule isn't that great.

Michigan has an easy ride until Ohio State. They should beat OSU and probably the B10 championship but OSU is a rivalry game in which anything can happen.

You don't have to worry about LSU. They are mired in their spot. They have two losses plus don't have the remaining schedule to boost their resume.

WSU you don't have to worry about either. Their only challenge left is Washington who is barely top 25 right now. A rivalry game and not a great resume booster plus their loss is worse than ours.

Oklahoma will be out after we beat them and then UT in the championship.

How do we get in? The way I see it, in 2 ways:

1. OSU beats Michigan. UM ends up with 2 losses. OSU can't climb ahead because they are too far back and their wins haven't been all that overwhelming. They finish likely in 6th or 7th.

2. The committee actually applies the same standards to Clemson as they did to TCU/Baylor/UCF and punish them for their lack of schedule strength. Clemson will likely finish undefeated having beaten maybe one or two barely top 25 teams if that. They have no "big" win to hang their hat on. Plus, I'd argue out of the top 4 teams right now, they look the most susceptible to losing to an even decent team.

Other than that, probably the best we will see is 5th - on the outside looking in.

 

[oceantide83]

Not happening, folks.

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers]

LSU lost to Tennessee! Flawed BS

So why isn't WVU ranked ahead of LSU, which couldn't even score a point in its last game against .... I forget the name of the school. :sunglasses:

 

[Pitt4Life34]

PLAYOFF RANKINGS
1. Alabama
2. Clemson
3. Notre Dame
4. Michigan
5. Georgia
6. Oklahoma
7. LSU
8. Washington State
9. West Virginia

The main hope for WVU getting in, if the Mountaineers win the Big 12 title and have an 11-1 record, is college football’s strong suit: Unpredictability.

Because what "experts" think will happen doesn’t give WVU much of a path to the Football Final Four.

This doesn’t take into consideration conference title games, which might help WVU more than what’s left of the regular season.

Alabama would have to demolish Georgia Dec. 1 to help WVU. Auburn, UMass and Georgia Tech certainly aren’t likely to beat the Bulldogs.

Oklahoma State and Kansas aren’t likely to derail Oklahoma. WVU will have to do it face-to-face. Twice.

LSU has Arkansas, Rice and Texas A&M. Not very hopeful there.

Notre Dame has Florida State, Syracuse and Southern Cal. Sure hope the Orange have a good game. Otherwise the Irish’s pansy schedule, other than Michigan, will keep ND unbeaten.

Washington State, STILL ahead of WVU for some reason, has Colorado, Arizona and Washington. Maybe Rich’s son, Rhett, the Arizona QB, can help his dad’s former WVU team with an upset? Probably not.

Again, the best bet: College football’s unpredictability. As Dana keeps saying, WVU needs to just keep winning the next game and the next game and the next game. Then we’ll see what happens to the rest of the college football world.

Climbing from #9 to #4 is a really, really talk mountain to climb. WVU can only win out. But it still will need a ton of help from other teams who aren't expected to upset teams ranked above the Mountaineers.

We'll see. It's not over till you see the final scoreboard score.

M agnificent Grier passes shredded Tennessee, 40-14
O verhelmed drenched Youngstown, 52-17
U nable to play North Carolina State because of Hurricane Florence
N asty defense against Kansas State, 35-6
T errific, then timid on offense against Texas Tech, 42-34
A ntsy time for fans, vs. Kansas!, 38-22
I ncomprehensible insanely indescribably inept offense against Iowa State, 14-30
N ailed Baylor, 58-14
E rectile dysfunctioned Texas on 2-point PAT, 42-41
E viscerate TCU
R eam Oklahoma State
S laughter Oklahoma

Man are you slow pal. I posted the obvious a couple weeks ago.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

Numbers 9 thru 7 are a flip of the coin. We need to get past three teams numbers 4, 5 and 6. We need to win the next 2 games and we take care of number 6 OU. #5 will get taken care of by Alabama. We need the gods to work their magic on numbers 3 and 4. If we beat OU twice, that could also do it. We still control our destiny.

“Controlling your destiny”means if you win out you achieve your goal. If WVU wins out they still probably don’t get into playoffs. So WVU needs help which means........they “don’t” control their destiny. What you meant to post is.........WVU doesn’t control its destiny but has to “take care of business”.
You’re welcome!

 

[Pitt4Life34]

LSU lost to Tennessee! Flawed BS

You’re a moron. Move along.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

I don't quite agree. With most, but not all.

First, let's assume everything falls into place like it probably will.

Bama OR Georgia gets in. Both will have one loss, yes, but Bama's loss would occur too late for them to recover from plus a slew of other one loss teams with them.

Clemson isn't going to lose. Back to them in a minute.

Notre Dame isn't going to lose either. They have the easiest path in. They also have the virtue of beating Michigan even though the remainder of their schedule isn't that great.

Michigan has an easy ride until Ohio State. They should beat OSU and probably the B10 championship but OSU is a rivalry game in which anything can happen.

You don't have to worry about LSU. They are mired in their spot. They have two losses plus don't have the remaining schedule to boost their resume.

WSU you don't have to worry about either. Their only challenge left is Washington who is barely top 25 right now. A rivalry game and not a great resume booster plus their loss is worse than ours.

Oklahoma will be out after we beat them and then UT in the championship.

How do we get in? The way I see it, in 2 ways:

1. OSU beats Michigan. UM ends up with 2 losses. OSU can't climb ahead because they are too far back and their wins haven't been all that overwhelming. They finish likely in 6th or 7th.

2. The committee actually applies the same standards to Clemson as they did to TCU/Baylor/UCF and punish them for their lack of schedule strength. Clemson will likely finish undefeated having beaten maybe one or two barely top 25 teams if that. They have no "big" win to hang their hat on. Plus, I'd argue out of the top 4 teams right now, they look the most susceptible to losing to an even decent team.

Other than that, probably the best we will see is 5th - on the outside looking in.

Make no mistake about it a 1 one loss Bama team 100% gets into the playoff. No matter where or when that loss comes. Anyone thinking different is laughable.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

So why isn't WVU ranked ahead of LSU, which couldn't even score a point in its last game against .... I forget the name of the school. :sunglasses:

Because at this point the Committee thinks LSU is better than WVU. Man are you slowing down.

 

[CAJUNEER]

Because at this point the Committee thinks LSU is better than WVU. Man are you slowing down.

That probably changes with a win over Oklahoma. Right now LSU has wins better than WVU’s best win.

 

[spartansstink]

Make no mistake about it a 1 one loss Bama team 100% gets into the playoff. No matter where or when that loss comes. Anyone thinking different is laughable.

So, that one loss Bama gets in. So does Georgia for beating them. So, who gets left out - Clemson, Michigan, or Notre Dame?

Who, besides LSU, has Bama beaten that really strengthens their resume when compared to everyone else? Even ours would look better than Bama's.

Now, I agree that if the committee actually did its job, Bama probably gets in just because they "look" like one of the 4 best teams in the nation. However, for the past several years they have used different metrics different years to justify their choices. They could choose to exclude Bama if they lose the SECCG for a myriad of reasons - not wanting a potential repeat of last year, wanting to give another blue blood, i.e. ND, Michigan, etc. a chance, or simply say their resume isn't strong enough compared to the other one loss teams they may want in.

But to say "100%", is not necessarily true.

 

[steeleer]

LSU has an awful offense. A&M has a chance.

ND has to lose. Suckacuse is a decent team. Wish it was in the carrier dome.

BC is our last hope with Clemson. Pitt blew it for us there.

Bama needs to win out. They will.

Texas needs to win out. Unlikely, but possible. Otherwise the B12 CCG will ruin the B12s chances for the playoffs.

 

[deedoubleyou]

I dont see us in the playoff. I know we just beat the Shortcorns and have a shot to run the table, but in the end, we still lost to ISU and we are in what most people think is a weak B12 this year. I guess if enough people lose it could happen, but I'll be happy just to make a quality bowl game and hopefully win it.

 

[spartansstink]

I agree. But, stranger that have happened! Usually not for us though...

 

[mounty99]

If Clemson, ND and Mich win out and Alabama loses to Georgia I see Bama being left out. The national draw for that final four will give the committee cover for excluding Bama. We don't get in unless we win out and things get crazy at the top. Best chance for that is if Ohio State gets beat by Mich St and then beats Mich in the final.

 

[Buster68]

“Controlling your destiny”means if you win out you achieve your goal. If WVU wins out they still probably don’t get into playoffs. So WVU needs help which means........they “don’t” control their destiny. What you meant to post is.........WVU doesn’t control its destiny but has to “take care of business”.
You’re welcome!

Let's be clear. Thats your interpretation of "controlling your destiny" and you don't get to tell me what I meant. I meant what I said. We control our destiny as much as any of the other teams. It is a matter of probability...some are in more control than others. The world could end before the playoffs and so nobody is in total control of their destiny.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Bama is not being left out...

1 loss teams in front of WVU need to lose.

MSU beats OSU who beats Michigan - 3 Big 10 teams with 2 losses.
Georgia lose to Bama - Georgia 2 losses
Washington State loses to Colorado or Washington - WSU 2 losses
WVU wins out - OU has 3 losses
Texas loses to Texas Tech and beats Iowa state - takes out tie breakers for both WVU and OU

ND doesn't need a loss for WVU to get in but it would be nice.

This is the kind luck WVU would need. Not impossible but not high percentage either. It's an uphill battle with out a safety net.

We could lose to OU at the end of the season and ISU winning out would give them the Big 12 championship spot because they beat WVU. I bet nobody thought of that, did you.

 

[TexasforevEER]

Let's hope WV doesn't have to play Texas in the Big Championship game. The Longhorn QB has already stated that he won't forget that the Mountaineers dissed the Longhorns with the horns down sign and he says that he will get his revenge! Warez

 

[CAJUNEER]

Let's hope WV doesn't have to play Texas in the Big Championship game. The Longhorn QB has already stated that he won't forget that the Mountaineers dissed the Longhorns with the horns down sign and he says that he will get his revenge! Warez

Yeah, well. I don’t think anyone on the team is scare.

 

[TexasforevEER]

Yeah, well. I don’t think anyone on the team is scare.

CajunEER............I get your drift. The warden told me that I would get my revenge when he let me out of the Big House. He was wrong. My number eight wife got 50% of everything plus she sold my decoys and bait to add insult to injury. Warez

 

[CAJUNEER]

CajunEER............I get your drift. The warden told me that I would get my revenge when he let me out of the Big House. He was wrong. My eight wife got 50% of everything plus she sold my decoys and bait to add insult to injury. Warez

Shoulda gone with the prenup.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

Let's be clear. Thats your interpretation of "controlling your destiny" and you don't get to tell me what I meant. I meant what I said. We control our destiny as much as any of the other teams. It is a matter of probability...some are in more control than others. The world could end before the playoffs and so nobody is in total control of their destiny.

I wouldnt try to tell a dumb person anything. We good dummy?

 

[Pitt4Life34]

So, that one loss Bama gets in. So does Georgia for beating them. So, who gets left out - Clemson, Michigan, or Notre Dame?

Who, besides LSU, has Bama beaten that really strengthens their resume when compared to everyone else? Even ours would look better than Bama's.

Now, I agree that if the committee actually did its job, Bama probably gets in just because they "look" like one of the 4 best teams in the nation. However, for the past several years they have used different metrics different years to justify their choices. They could choose to exclude Bama if they lose the SECCG for a myriad of reasons - not wanting a potential repeat of last year, wanting to give another blue blood, i.e. ND, Michigan, etc. a chance, or simply say their resume isn't strong enough compared to the other one loss teams they may want in.

But to say "100%", is not necessarily true.

Anyone that thinks a one loss Bama team doesn’t get into playoffs under every circumstance is dumb.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

That probably changes with a win over Oklahoma. Right now LSU has wins better than WVU’s best win.

No question in my mind when WVU beats Oklahoma they wil be 5th. If Bama and Clemson run the table Ait will only take one slip up by ND or Michigan will get WVU in playoff. If Georgia beats Bama or Michigan runs the table then 2 SEC teams get in and that will screw WVU.

 

[Chazz Michael Michaels]

It’s not that complicated.
1. We win out.
2. Michigan beats OSU then loses in B10 CCG or OSU loses to MSU then beats Michigan.
3. Bama beats UGA.

We’d also jump LSU and WSU by winning.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

It’s not that complicated.
1. We win out.
2. Michigan beats OSU then loses in B10 CCG or OSU loses to MSU then beats Michigan.
3. Bama beats UGA.

We’d also jump LSU and WSU by winning.

@Buster68 ^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^

Bama, Clemson, ND and Michigan control their own destiny. Figure out what “controlling your own destiny” means dumbass.

 

[still5-0vstarheels]

@Buster68 ^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^

Bama, Clemson, ND and Michigan control their own destiny. Figure out what “controlling your own destiny” means dumbass.

If Georgia wins out then one of the teams above do not control their own destiny. Likely Michigan as a one loss Alabama team is in. You, of all posters should not call anyone a dumbass, Gregory.

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers]

I dont see us in the playoff. I know we just beat the Shortcorns and have a shot to run the table, but in the end, we still lost to ISU and we are in what most people think is a weak B12 this year. I guess if enough people lose it could happen, but I'll be happy just to make a quality bowl game and hopefully win it.

We lost to an ISU team that had a running back and QB it didn't have during its early losses. Completely different team that, in case you hadn't noticed, has the longest winning streak in the Big 12. Not your father's early-season team by a long shot. If Iowa State keeps winning, that makes WVU's loss sting a little less. Hell, Ohio State has been flunking the eyeball test for weeks and nobody who votes cares.


M agnificent Grier passes shredded Tennessee, 40-14

O verhelmed drenched Youngstown, 52-17

U nable to play North Carolina State because of Hurricane Florence

N asty defense against Kansas State, 35-6

T errific, then timid on offense against Texas Tech, 42-34

A ntsy time for fans, vs. Kansas!, 38-22

I ncomprehensible insanely indescribably inept offense against Iowa State, 14-30

N ailed Baylor, 58-14

E rectile dysfunctioned Texas on 2-point PAT, 42-41

E viscerate TCU

R eam Oklahoma State

S laughter Oklahoma

 

[Pitt4Life34]

If Georgia wins out then one of the teams above do not control their own destiny. Likely Michigan as a one loss Alabama team is in. You, of all posters should not call anyone a dumbass, Gregory.

His post was about about WVU “controlling their own destiny”. Your reply to me is jibberish. If you had any class you’d apologize for being a dick without paying attention to the conversation. Crawl back under your rock dumbass.

 

[still5-0vstarheels]

His post was about about WVU “controlling their own destiny”. Your reply to me is jibberish. If you had any class you’d apologize for being a dick without paying attention to the conversation. Crawl back under your rock dumbass.

I realize you have an abnormally low IQ but come on man you can not be that stupid to not understand that Michigan likely does not control its own destiny. I will not waste my time as there is no fixing stupid.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

I realize you have an abnormally low IQ but come on man you can not be that stupid to not understand that Michigan likely does not control its own destiny. I will not waste my time as there is no fixing stupid.

Hey moron again the point had nothing to do with Michigan. It had to do with WVU. As in WVU doesn’t control its own destiny. Man you’re stupid as f...

 

[still5-0vstarheels]

Hey moron again the point had nothing to do with Michigan. It had to do with WVU. As in WVU doesn’t control its own destiny. Man you’re stupid as f...

LOL. Once again their is no fixing stupid (you). You posted that Michigan controlled there own destiny while calling another poster a dumbass. I just pointed out why Michigan does not control its own destiny. If you can not understand my post, perhaps you can get a refund for that high dollar education.

 

[WVUFanForever]

If we win out....

We will jump LSU and Washington....moves up to 7
We would have beaten OU...so up to 6
Bama beats Georgia in the SEC title game....moves up to 5

To me this is where it gets tricky...a one-loss Bama, Clemson and Notre Dame will stay in front of us.

Michigan will too and if osu beats Michigan, they would jump us.

I dont see a path for WVU.

 

[spartansstink]

The path is there... but it's fairly remote.

First, we need Oklahoma to win out until our match.
Second, we need Texass to win out, for two reasons. One a win over a likely top 15 team looks good on the resume; second, it makes our loss to ISU look more like a fluke.

We win out, and beat either OU or UT in the championship game it really strengthens our resume with wins over 2 or 3 top 15 teams, one of which twice.

Here is where it gets tricky...

Bama/Georgia get in. The belief that Bama gets in no matter what is wrong - no matter how much one wants to say it. Say Bama loses to Georgia in the SECCG, everybody else moves up one spot - say Clemson-1, ND-2, UM-3, Georgia-4 or some similar order- that puts Bama at best 5th and on the outside looking in. While others on here claim otherwise, they won't mention who Bama knocks out and why.

Clemson's getting in - although they are the weakest of the top 4 teams. There is nobody on their schedule they've played this year who should even be ranked in the top 25 - no matter how many times the press tries to make some run-of-the-mill team like Boston College or Syracuse into a top 25 ranked team only to lose the next week to a 3 or 4 win team like Wake Forest. Their toughest challenge will be Pitt - and that should say it all. If Bama is getting in (and they should) Clemson is the team that should be bumped.

Notre Dame is in - easy schedule left combined with an undefeated season and a media darling to boot. They aren't getting bumped out. Notre Dame doesn't have the toughest schedule either, but do hold that win over Michigan.

Michigan is in if they beat OSU and Northwestern - which they likely will. Their only loss will be to Notre Dame in week one. Add to that solid wins and a win over OSU, they are in even over us due to a perceived tougher schedule.

The only way in for WVU? For OSU to beat Michigan or Northwestern to get them later. Otherwise, the best finish for WVU would be 5th but more likely 6th behind Bama/Georgia loser.