"Will Dana Holgersen ever make WVU a consistent contender"

[Soaring Eagle 74]

ESPN's Chatmon replies:

"I think he can, but it won't happen overnight in the Big 12. People tend to brush off the depth of this league, but Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and TCU each rank in the Top 25 nationally in win percentage since 2012, the year the Mountaineers joined the conference. West Virginia was in Big 12 title contention until falling apart down the stretch in 2014, but consistently contending requires building a program, and I think Holgorsen is growing in that respect each year."

 

[thunderstruckatthejoan]

I agree!

 

[eerphone]

ESPN's Chatmon replies:

"I think he can, but it won't happen overnight in the Big 12. People tend to brush off the depth of this league, but Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and TCU each rank in the Top 25 nationally in win percentage since 2012, the year the Mountaineers joined the conference. West Virginia was in Big 12 title contention until falling apart down the stretch in 2014, but consistently contending requires building a program, and I think Holgorsen is growing in that respect each year."

I believe he will build a contender. To me his willingness to adapt his schemes shows he studying the league and trying to get out ahead of changes. Everyone in the league built a wide open offense - air raid or variation. Defenses followed with personnel that could move with the faster spread offenses. Now, I think he sees the opportunity to build an offense that can run, bully, and control time. While having an aggressive defense that can handle the air raid. For a period of time, teams will have to adapt and spend extra time preparing for such a diverse attack.
He is an innovator, he's slowly learning what it takes to be the head innovator. If he lucks into a couple key guys like RR did ,we could have an amazing run.

 

[wbgvwbgv]

ESPN's Chatmon replies:

"I think he can, but it won't happen overnight in the Big 12. People tend to brush off the depth of this league, but Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and TCU each rank in the Top 25 nationally in win percentage since 2012, the year the Mountaineers joined the conference. West Virginia was in Big 12 title contention until falling apart down the stretch in 2014, but consistently contending requires building a program, and I think Holgorsen is growing in that respect each year."

I think that most fans feel that way. Low information fans (wvpaper, low IQ drifter, pushingtin, etc. ) want the coach fired after every loss, but no one pays any attention to what they post. WVU finally has a decent place to practice and a team meeting room. The roster seems replenished with another good recruiting class on the way. A win over Kansas makes this team bowl eligible again ( 4 out of the last 5 years ). There is a lot of momentum and extending Holgorsen's contract will also help the program long term.

 

[GetYaNumbersUp]

I guess it depends on your definition of "contender." Last season this team contended for much of the year, so if that's is your definition then I believe he can. I do not think he's going to be fielding consistent top 3 teams in the Big 12.

 

[VaultHunter]

This WVU team is an elite QB from being a contender now.

As long as recruiting continues to improve and WVU can keep the entire coaching staff intact WVU will break through.

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

I doubt it DH consistently gets out coached in close games, He can't recruit a division 1 QB, The only reason that Baylor and TCU are competing for conference championships is due to coaching and nothing else. TCU and baylor recruit no better than WVU. Most writers hardly say anything bad about coaches until they get fired. WVU could fire Holgorson and hire an average coach and pay him half the money and get the same results

 

[countryroads89]

The only reason that Baylor and TCU are competing for conference championships is due to coaching and nothing else.

Wow.

Baylor has two (prior to the injury) Heisman Trophy contenders on their offense. If you doubt the impact of their QB, look what happened to them since he went down. TCU has a Heisman Trophy contender QB. Look at their results this year and then look at what they did against Kansas without Boykin. Baylor will have at least three players drafted on offense, two in the first round, and at least three players drafted on defense. I'm not taking anything away from their coaches, they are both good coaches, but that certainly isn't "the only reason".

 

[GoWVU]

I guess it depends on your definition of "contender."

Chatmon was being very generous with his use of the term "contention". It takes a major stretch to call the 2014 team a contender when it was effectively eliminated from the race on November 1.

He also seems to have an extremely broad interpretation of the word "overnight".

 

[wvu1962]

One Qb and experienced strong wideouts which are either are in the program now or coming in this year

 

[Low Mountains Drifter]

I don't think seasons where a team finishes 3 games out of first place in a 9 game schedule can ever be called seasons it "contended" for purposes of this discussion. In the broadest sense even Kansas contends, because it is a member of the league and eligible for the title, but as used here contends means something more akin to "was close."

That said, I don't expect that we "consistently" come close to winning the title if by consistently we mean the years where we don't contend are few and far between.

I think realistic and reasonable expectations are:

(1) That the team almost always appears well prepared, motivated and exhibits discipline and sound fundamentals.

(2) That losses where we "beat ourselves" due to sloppy or uninspired play or poor coaching decisions are very rare.

(3) That the team rebounds from poor and mediocre games and seasons, and we see progress rather than stagnation or regression.

(4) That we have winning conference records consistently. An occasional losing conference record is one thing, having them 40-50% of the time is not meeting our potential when you can have a winning record many years without beating a single winning team.

(5) That at least every 4-5 years we are actually in contention to the final game.


Winning the conference and/or earning a playoff berth is going to be a rare occurrence and I wouldn't deem a coach a failure even if he went 10 years without winning one if the other reasonable and realistic expectations are met. Right now, I see nothing to support an argument we are meeting any of those criteria.

I also see little reason to think the tide is going to turn any time soon with Holgorsen as our coach. I don't think he has what it takes to even move us up a notch from where we are now: reduced to claiming 5-4 seasons are good seasons because our losses are to better teams and rationalizing the worse seasons with, "there's no guarantee a new coach will do better."

 

[Pushingtin]

recruiting is marginally better at best......Coaches getting paid 3 mil a year shouldn't take 7 years to finally come in 3 place of a 10 team league.
Dana is not a good head coach and never will be

 

[Low Mountains Drifter]

One of the main reasons Baylor, OSU, TCU, and OU each rank in the top 25 in WP since 2012 is that each of them gets to play 6 games a year against the other Big 12 teams, and with the exception of OU play very easy OOC schedules. Another reason is that they have roughly split the games they play among themselves because no team has been extremely strong throughout that period.

So, if a team over a four year period goes 12-4 OOC, (counting bowls), 19-5 against the weaker members of the league and 6-6 against the other three, it will have an overall record of 37-15 or a WP of .711. That's achievable without beating very many good teams, maybe 2 a year, sometimes fewer.

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers]

Let's look at the record.

WVU finished ranked in the top 25 EVERY year from 2005 through 2011. That's seven straight seasons in the top 25.

Now WVU can't even finish in the top 4 of the Big 12, which is 10 teams for those paying attention. Spin away, but that's not progress.

Yes, WVU played 4 top 25 teams this year in the Big 12. Oklahoma State currently is ranked 6th, Oklahoma 7th, Baylor 10th, TCU 18th (and Baylor & TCU were better teams when WVU played them, before they lost their super QBs).

That leaves five unranked teams to beat: Texas Tech and Texas (mission accomplished), with Kansas, Iowa State and Kansas State next in line. WVU has won as many Big 12 games this season (2) as those three teams COMBINED, so there should be no legitimate excuse for NOT running the table to 8-4 and, good Lord willing, 9-4 after the bowl game.

That will pull Dana even with the 9-4 record that Bill Stewart had EVERY season he was the head coach. That doesn't mean Bill was a better coach. It means the numbers match. And Stewart lost 2 of 3 bowl games to drop to 9-4.


M ighty defense throttled Georgia Southern, 44-0

O utstanding defense obliterated Liberty, 41-17

U nilaterally decimated Maryland, 45-6, on defense and offense

N oxious offense & special teams against Oklahoma, 44-24

T urnovers lose to Oklahoma State, 33-26 in OT despite impressive comeback from 15-point deficit.

A wesome Baylor too much, 62-38.

I ncinerated by TCU, 40-10. Way too many mistakes, penalties, dropped passes.

N ifty rushing, defense take down Texas Tech, 31-26

E xcellent turnovers by defense against Texas, 38-20

E rectile dysfunction Kansas

R oll past Iowa State

S lap down Kansas State

 

[Low Mountains Drifter]

Another point is that we lost 3 of our 4 games badly. Even counting the OT loss to OSU, we were outscored in our losses 179-98 (44.7-24.5 mpg , or basically by 3TDs).

Against Baylor, OU and TCU, we were outscored 146-72 (48.6 -24).

I believe this is the first year we lost to all 4 of those teams. It's not the first season, unfortunately, we have been thoroughly whipped by 3 teams under Holgorsen:

2012: TTU, KSU, OSU, Syracuse

2013: Maryland, Baylor, KSU (+ losses to KU and ISU)

Last season, we actually had no 3TD losses, so considering this is an easier schedule, it's debatable whether we are as good, even if we finish 8-5.

Unless, we get a graduate transfer QB for 2016, it's hard to see us making much positive headway in 2016, given the losses from the D .

There is no basis for claiming WVU has made any progress, unless we pretend the world began in 2013.

 

[Pushingtin]

I think that most fans feel that way. Low information fans want the coach fired after every loss, but no one pays any attention to what they post. WVU finally has a decent place to practice and a team meeting room. The roster seems replenished with another good recruiting class on the way. A win over Kansas makes this team bowl eligible again ( 4 out of the last 5 years ). There is a lot of momentum and extending Holgorsen's contract will also help the program long term.

Got news for you.....you are one of the lowest of low info fans on this board!!!!!

 

[NCNEER]

ESPN's Chatmon replies:

"I think he can, but it won't happen overnight in the Big 12. People tend to brush off the depth of this league, but Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and TCU each rank in the Top 25 nationally in win percentage since 2012, the year the Mountaineers joined the conference. West Virginia was in Big 12 title contention until falling apart down the stretch in 2014, but consistently contending requires building a program, and I think Holgorsen is growing in that respect each year."

I think he is as well but needs to do a little better job at recruiting in some areas. QB, DE, RB depth but even those positions are getting there. We do seem to be getting closer each year. The other thing they did not specifically mention is that our entire staff seems to be getting better every year and learning what it will take to win in the B12. Road games are always going to be a challenge. A stronger OOC Schedule is also going be a challenge. The consensus on thus year - Good Team, Ridiculous Schedule and tough but limited QB

 

[Low Mountains Drifter]

In what way are we getting "closer each year?"

 

[wbgvwbgv]

Let's look at the record.

WVU finished ranked in the top 25 EVERY year from 2005 through 2011. That's seven straight seasons in the top 25.

Now WVU can't even finish in the top 4 of the Big 12, which is 10 teams for those paying attention. Spin away, but that's not progress.

Yes, WVU played 4 top 25 teams this year in the Big 12. Oklahoma State currently is ranked 6th, Oklahoma 7th, Baylor 10th, TCU 18th (and Baylor & TCU were better teams when WVU played them, before they lost their super QBs).

That leaves five unranked teams to beat: Texas Tech and Texas (mission accomplished), with Kansas, Iowa State and Kansas State next in line. WVU has won as many Big 12 games this season (2) as those three teams COMBINED, so there should be no legitimate excuse for NOT running the table to 8-4 and, good Lord willing, 9-4 after the bowl game.

That will pull Dana even with the 9-4 record that Bill Stewart had EVERY season he was the head coach. That doesn't mean Bill was a better coach. It means the numbers match. And Stewart lost 2 of 3 bowl games to drop to 9-4.


M ighty defense throttled Georgia Southern, 44-0

O utstanding defense obliterated Liberty, 41-17

U nilaterally decimated Maryland, 45-6, on defense and offense

N oxious offense & special teams against Oklahoma, 44-24

T urnovers lose to Oklahoma State, 33-26 in OT despite impressive comeback from 15-point deficit.

A wesome Baylor too much, 62-38.

I ncinerated by TCU, 40-10. Way too many mistakes, penalties, dropped passes.

N ifty rushing, defense take down Texas Tech, 31-26

E xcellent turnovers by defense against Texas, 38-20

E rectile dysfunction Kansas

R oll past Iowa State

S lap down Kansas State

"WVU finished ranked in the top 25 EVERY year from 2005 through 2011. That's seven straight seasons in the top 25."

2005 is the year that the Big East, already a relatively weak conference, fell apart. And 2011 was our last year in the Big East with a schedule full of cupcakes. Holgorsen in his first year (2011) won a championship and the Orange Bowl. Did he all of sudden become a bad coach in 2012 or did the competition get significant greater that year? Dah.

Then we had to play a Big Boy's schedule with 6 or 7 good conference opponents instead of 1 or maybe 2 good conference opponents. The low information fans like pushingtin & low IQ drifter will never understand the difference, but knowledgeable fans know exactly what happened in 2012.

http://www.big12sports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=205499646

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

Wow.

Baylor has two (prior to the injury) Heisman Trophy contenders on their offense. If you doubt the impact of their QB, look what happened to them since he went down. TCU has a Heisman Trophy contender QB. Look at their results this year and then look at what they did against Kansas without Boykin. Baylor will have at least three players drafted on offense, two in the first round, and at least three players drafted on defense. I'm not taking anything away from their coaches, they are both good coaches, but that certainly isn't "the only reason".

Baylor and TCU have some good players but they where unable to compensate for losses due to injury. Both those teams have physically weak defenses that where exposed.. Both those teams hadn't played anybody until this month. Baylor and TCU average recruiting classes are similar to wvu. Ohio state was down to there 3rd string QB and still won last season but they also get top recruiting classes unlike Baylor, TCU and WVU

 

[ThePunish-EER]

Got news for you.....you are one of the lowest of low info fans on this board!!!!!

says the guy who is certain it's Danas fault WVU lost 4 straight games to 4 straight top 10 teams with a combined record of 32-1 Lmao!!!

 

[Pushingtin]

says the guy who is certain it's Danas fault WVU lost 4 straight games to 4 straight top 10 teams with a combined record of 32-1 Lmao!!!

Didn't say it was ALL Dana but team failures falls on the head coach....its that simple. I think we have also beat a dead horse that the top 4, while they are good teams, they had played no one......they had outstanding wins against Lamar, Ark St, Kansas, WVU(sadly) and a whole host of other losing or small school teams........out of those 32 wins....only one came against a quality team(Tenn) and that is a stretch...
So yes..coming from me.......many of you are clueless. The argument for you morons shouldn't be that we are just glad we can strap up our helmets and walk onto the field against those good teams....the argument is a coach making 3 mil a year and in his 5th year cant field a team good enough to challenge the only decent teams in the conference!!!!

 

[wbgvwbgv]

Didn't say it was ALL Dana but team failures falls on the head coach....its that simple. I think we have also beat a dead horse that the top 4, while they are good teams, they had played no one......they had outstanding wins against Lamar, Ark St, Kansas, WVU(sadly) and a whole host of other losing or small school teams........out of those 32 wins....only one came against a quality team(Tenn) and that is a stretch...
So yes..coming from me.......many of you are clueless. The argument for you morons shouldn't be that we are just glad we can strap up our helmets and walk onto the field against those good teams....the argument is a coach making 3 mil a year and in his 5th year cant field a team good enough to challenge the only decent teams in the conference!!!!

You are blinded by your hatred and stupidity. There will always be a portion of our fan base that are an embarrassment. They flew planes over the campus wanting to fire coach Stew and coach Nehlen. They hung coach Bowden in effigy. They can't understand the difference between the Big East and the Big 12; between Oklahoma and UConn; and between a conference that distributes a few million dollars a year vs. one that distributes $25 million. Every win is against a weak opponent and every loss should result in a coaching change.

After Holgorsen gets his contract extension, the low information fans will have 4 more years to complain and just as no one cares now, no one will care then.

There will always be a few:
http://www.wvusports.com/page.cfm?section=7208

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

You are blinded by your hatred and stupidity. There will always be a portion of our fan base that are an embarrassment. They flew planes over the campus wanting to fire coach Stew and coach Nehlen. They hung coach Bowden in effigy. They can't understand the difference between the Big East and the Big 12; between Oklahoma and UConn; and between a conference that distributes a few million dollars a year vs. one that distributes $25 million. Every win is against a weak opponent and every loss should result in a coaching change.

After Holgorsen gets his contract extension, the low information fans will have 4 more years to complain and just as no one cares now, no one will care then.

There will always be a few:
http://www.wvusports.com/page.cfm?section=7208

Maybe you don't understand the difference between good coaching and bad. TCU came from the mountain West and has already won a share of a big 12 title there recruiting is no different than WVU but Gary Patterson had already proven himself as a good coach unlike DH

 

[Pushingtin]

You are blinded by your hatred and stupidity. There will always be a portion of our fan base that are an embarrassment. They flew planes over the campus wanting to fire coach Stew and coach Nehlen. They hung coach Bowden in effigy. They can't understand the difference between the Big East and the Big 12; between Oklahoma and UConn; and between a conference that distributes a few million dollars a year vs. one that distributes $25 million. Every win is against a weak opponent and every loss should result in a coaching change.

After Holgorsen gets his contract extension, the low information fans will have 4 more years to complain and just as no one cares now, no one will care then.

There will always be a few:
http://www.wvusports.com/page.cfm?section=7208

I personally don't care...I have come to expect WVU will always underachieve with Dana as head coach so losing doesn't really bother me anymore....
I don't care what happened when Bowden or Stewart were here....I move on. Dana will not get an extension as many people much smarter than you nitwits understands that our program should be way ahead of where it is after paying someone 13 million dollars and another 2 or 3 million to keep an entertainment buddy around. Beating only the bad teams on your schedule isn't success and most with a half a brain know that....but there you go.....you would have to have at least a half of a functioning brain of which you don't have!!!! You are such a clueless moron that you really don't know the reason Bowden left for FL State but you pretend to know as you like to post it all the time........you really should stop speaking/typing......remember this saying "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

 

[wbgvwbgv]

I personally don't care...I have come to expect WVU will always underachieve with Dana as head coach so losing doesn't really bother me anymore....
I don't care what happened when Bowden or Stewart were here....I move on. Dana will not get an extension as many people much smarter than you nitwits understands that our program should be way ahead of where it is after paying someone 13 million dollars and another 2 or 3 million to keep an entertainment buddy around. Beating only the bad teams on your schedule isn't success and most with a half a brain know that....but there you go.....you would have to have at least a half of a functioning brain of which you don't have!!!! You are such a clueless moron that you really don't know the reason Bowden left for FL State but you pretend to know as you like to post it all the time........you really should stop speaking/typing......remember this saying "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

I get the feeling that losing hasn't bothered you your entire life. Low information fans do little more than whine and complain and pretend that they know more than the head coach and athletic director. They want to fire the coach after every loss and then proceed to call everyone who doesn't a moron. They couldn't coach a little league football team to a victory, but act like they have the answer to making the college playoff. Every fan base has them and they are an embarrassment. WVU just has more than most.

"Dana makes too much money and hires his drinking buddies. And if I paid taxes, I would be really pissed."