Watch this CNN panel of Dems

[WVPATX]

I hope Van Jones is right and the party moves even further left (Jones was once a self avowed communist). He says the Clinton days of moderation are over for the Dems. It amazes me that he thinks the mistake they made was not being liberal enough.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/van-jone...-clinton-days-are-over-you-cant-run-and-hide/

 

[Boomboom521]

I hope Van Jones is right and the party moves even further left (Jones was once a self avowed communist). He says the Clinton days of moderation are over for the Dems. It amazes me that he thinks the mistake they made was not being liberal enough.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/van-jone...-clinton-days-are-over-you-cant-run-and-hide/

Look, not everyone thinks like you do. We need people to try to understand different aspects of political thought, not just push the country into two camps. He's as wrong as others that try to politicize thinking, instead of taking issues one at a time we have to categorize everything before thinking.

There are aspects of conservative thinking that work, there are aspects of liberal thinking that work. It would be a better America if both parts work together instead of waring constantly.

 

[WVPATX]

Look, not everyone thinks like you do. We need people to try to understand different aspects of political thought, not just push the country into two camps. He's as wrong as others that try to politicize thinking, instead of taking issues one at a time we have to categorize everything before thinking.

There are aspects of conservative thinking that work, there are aspects of liberal thinking that work. It would be a better America if both parts work together instead of waring constantly.

This was not a discussion of issues. This was a discussion of party direction. Van Jones has become an important voice for the far left as has Elizabeth Warren and of course Bernie. As a conservative, I hope these people move the party even further left. I hope Keith Ellison becomes head of the DNC. I do this because I believe that for the most part, conservative ideas are better for the country and the world.

I agree with you that liberalism is important in providing balance, but if the Dems insist on moving even further left, they risk becoming irrelevant. The country is much more middle of the road for the most part except for sections of each coast, Hollywood and academia. I even think many minorities are really more middle of the road pragmatic. The Dems risk losing a lot if Van Jones is correct and they adopt the Obama ideology vs. Bill Clinton's.

 

[va87eer]

The party that grabs the middle and still gets their own voters out is the party that wins. It happens over and over.

 

[WVPATX]

The party that grabs the middle and still gets their own voters out is the party that wins. It happens over and over.

This election was a rebuke of both parties, Imo. Elites in both parties think they know what's best for each of us. Populism is sweeping large parts of the world. Brexit being a great example. Elites said staying in the EU was best for the people. The people decided otherwise.

Trump's populist message resonated with people, particularly the rust belt. I think the people are taking their country back.

 

[Boomboom521]

This election was a rebuke of both parties, Imo. Elites in both parties think they know what's best for each of us. Populism is sweeping large parts of the world. Brexit being a great example. Elites said staying in the EU was best for the people. The people decided otherwise.

Trump's populist message resonated with people, particularly the rust belt. I think the people are taking their country back.

As smart as I think you are, sometimes you foolishly miss the concept of America. "The people are taking their country back"? From the government? From the left? From the right (that was in power in congress AND the White House from 2002-2007)? From foreign hostiles?

This country is all of ours. It belongs to Bernie supporters, it belongs to Trump supporters, to those that appreciate Warren's passion, to those that appreciate McCain's love of our country. It belongs to the proud workers of the rust belt, the liberal elite, the 1%, and the 65.8 + million people that voted for Hillary.

Be careful. If Trump fails, the votes go the other way in a lot of those areas that got Trump elected.

 

[WVPATX]

As smart as I think you are, sometimes you foolishly miss the concept of America. "The people are taking their country back"? From the government? From the left? From the right (that was in power in congress AND the White House from 2002-2007)? From foreign hostiles?

This country is all of ours. It belongs to Bernie supporters, it belongs to Trump supporters, to those that appreciate Warren's passion, to those that appreciate McCain's love of our country. It belongs to the proud workers of the rust belt, the liberal elite, the 1%, and the 65.8 + million people that voted for Hillary.

Be careful. If Trump fails, the votes go the other way in a lot of those areas that got Trump elected.

I think you completely missed my point. My point is that elites in both parties developed policies that they feel are best for the country. Elites in Britain for example thought the EU was best for Britain and I am including the media elites. They showed disdain for anyone that disagreed with that viewpoint. Just as the elites in the United States show distain for the people that don't agree with their positions. And this is true in both parties. For example, the elites in both parties actually agree with a relatively open border. The Republicans like it because it provides cheap labor for business. The Democrats like it because it gives them votes. But the people in the form of wages and jobs and yes drugs and crime are hurt by it.

When I talk about taking the country back, I am referring to moving the country in a direction not mandated by the elites but rather supported by the people. That is the very definition of populism. I'm not suggesting that all of the party elites positions are incorrect just that they lost track of what was really impacting the people.

and you are exactly right, if Trump fails he will be out in four years.

This short video is emblematic of the point that I am trying to make. Listen to these two media elites. She is essentially saying the people are too stupid to understand nuance and he is saying that we live in a post fact world. She may not have intended my interpretation of her statement, but that is exactly how it comes across to me. To me that sounds as if they believe they are the holder and owner of facts and truth. What condescension.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/cnn-...-media-stronger-than-i-have-ever-felt-before/

 

[Boomboom521]

I think you completely missed my point. My point is that elites in both parties developed policies that they feel are best for the country. Elites in Britain for example thought the EU was best for Britain and I am including the media elites. They showed disdain for anyone that disagreed with that viewpoint. Just as the elites in the United States show distain for the people that don't agree with their positions. And this is true in both parties. For example, the elites in both parties actually agree with a relatively open border. The Republicans like it because it provides cheap labor for business. The Democrats like it because it gives them votes. But the people in the form of wages and jobs and yes drugs and crime are hurt by it.

When I talk about taking the country back, I am referring to moving the country in a direction not mandated by the elites but rather supported by the people. That is the very definition of populism. I'm not suggesting that all of the party elites positions are incorrect just that they lost track of what was really impacting the people.

and you are exactly right, if Trump fails he will be out in four years.

This short video is emblematic of the point that I am trying to make. Listen to these two media elites. She is essentially saying the people are too stupid to understand nuance and he is saying that we live in a post fact world. She may not have intended my interpretation of her statement, but that is exactly how it comes across to me. To me that sounds as if they believe they are the holder and owner of facts and truth. What condescension.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/cnn-...-media-stronger-than-i-have-ever-felt-before/

Open borders doesn't mean that we swing open the gate and let anybody and everybody in without search or documentation. It means we allow immigration, we allow trade, we allow financial planning and military support to be a more collective effort globally. I'm not sold on it being the best thing for the US, but I do know that development has helped hostile nations become more diplomatic, and the gap of poverty around the world is staggering. Do I think that Americans should feel guilty because their "bad economy" lives still constists of a home, a salary that pits food on the table, and cable while people all over the world go hungry without the ability to "lift themselves up by the bootstraps"? No. Our nation worked hard for our position, but I just want to see those nations develop as well. Regardless, I want people in those nations to be able to AT LEAST come here and make that life for themselves.

I want hostile countries to overthrow their governments in favor of more progressive leadership that works with the west to develop for their peoples well being. The shift starts with our actions here in the US.

You might be informed, but don't act like every American is informed. 90 million eligible voters didn't vote in the 2016 election. How informed and connected to the American process is someone that doesn't even vote? The people you are listening to are trying to WIN. Republicans hated Trump.....until he won. Dems hated Bernie because they thought he couldn't win. Meanwhile the congressman on both sides have manipulated the system for financial gain for generations. We need to think more about the process of legislation, representation, and policy and less about winning. Progressive policies toward university attendance and healthcare are good (to me), conservative approaches to welfare reform and business policies are good (to me), moderate attitudes on the SCOTUS are good (to me).

People do need to take their country back....from party politics that are so polarized, we rarely hold law makers accountable.

 

[WVPATX]

Open borders doesn't mean that we swing open the gate and let anybody and everybody in without search or documentation. It means we allow immigration, we allow trade, we allow financial planning and military support to be a more collective effort globally. I'm not sold on it being the best thing for the US, but I do know that development has helped hostile nations become more diplomatic, and the gap of poverty around the world is staggering. Do I think that Americans should feel guilty because their "bad economy" lives still constists of a home, a salary that pits food on the table, and cable while people all over the world go hungry without the ability to "lift themselves up by the bootstraps"? No. Our nation worked hard for our position, but I just want to see those nations develop as well. Regardless, I want people in those nations to be able to AT LEAST come here and make that life for themselves.

I want hostile countries to overthrow their governments in favor of more progressive leadership that works with the west to develop for their peoples well being. The shift starts with our actions here in the US.

You might be informed, but don't act like every American is informed. 90 million eligible voters didn't vote in the 2016 election. How informed and connected to the American process is someone that doesn't even vote? The people you are listening to are trying to WIN. Republicans hated Trump.....until he won. Dems hated Bernie because they thought he couldn't win. Meanwhile the congressman on both sides have manipulated the system for financial gain for generations. We need to think more about the process of legislation, representation, and policy and less about winning. Progressive policies toward university attendance and healthcare are good (to me), conservative approaches to welfare reform and business policies are good (to me), moderate attitudes on the SCOTUS are good (to me).

People do need to take their country back....from party politics that are so polarized, we rarely hold law makers accountable.

I think Trump winning the primary was a direct revolt against establishment Republicans in Congress and the Senate. So I think the voters thought they were holding them accountable by voting against their wishes and for someone that said he would blow it up.

You posts hints at too much power and money in Washington. And you're right. I have long supported term limits. Many, many politicians go to Washington while not being rich. But when they leave, somehow, someway, they are wealthy. The job doesn't pay that much so that wealth is coming from somewhere else.

As for borders, the border is very porous. I live in Texas and can attest to the fact that it is reasonably open. I am all in favor of legal immigration. I am all in favor of multi-national cooperation. I am not in favor of illegal immigration and a porous border. It hurts too many people and could lead to disaster if terrorists come across, not to mention drugs and gang members.

I believe our immigration needs to be focused on allowing more immigrants as long as they can add value to America. That means skills, capital, etc. We have more than enough low skilled workers and it hurts wages and jobs for citizens.

 

[Boomboom521]

I think Trump winning the primary was a direct revolt against establishment Republicans in Congress and the Senate. So I think the voters thought they were holding them accountable by voting against their wishes and for someone that said he would blow it up.

You posts hints at too much power and money in Washington. And you're right. I have long supported term limits. Many, many politicians go to Washington while not being rich. But when they leave, somehow, someway, they are wealthy. The job doesn't pay that much so that wealth is coming from somewhere else.

As for borders, the border is very porous. I live in Texas and can attest to the fact that it is reasonably open. I am all in favor of legal immigration. I am all in favor of multi-national cooperation. I am not in favor of illegal immigration and a porous border. It hurts too many people and could lead to disaster if terrorists come across, not to mention drugs and gang members.

I believe our immigration needs to be focused on allowing more immigrants as long as they can add value to America. That means skills, capital, etc. We have more than enough low skilled workers and it hurts wages and jobs for citizens.

My district representative growing up NEVER even had to really run against anyone. He run off his fathers name, and accumulated a massive war chest. He was voted out I believe in 2002. That is the norm. Republicans still get elected in republican districts, Dems get elected in dem districts, and some we see flip flop a little. When the economy is down, switches are made by selling that the left is killing the economy through spending or that the right is killing the economy through being too corrupt. The majority of flip flop voters but it every time. Look at the Presidents since FDR: Dem-rep-dem-rep-dem-rep-rep-dem-rep the only repeat was Reagan to Bush (and Bush got voted out after 4).

 

[Boomboom521]

I think you completely missed my point. My point is that elites in both parties developed policies that they feel are best for the country. Elites in Britain for example thought the EU was best for Britain and I am including the media elites. They showed disdain for anyone that disagreed with that viewpoint. Just as the elites in the United States show distain for the people that don't agree with their positions. And this is true in both parties. For example, the elites in both parties actually agree with a relatively open border. The Republicans like it because it provides cheap labor for business. The Democrats like it because it gives them votes. But the people in the form of wages and jobs and yes drugs and crime are hurt by it.

When I talk about taking the country back, I am referring to moving the country in a direction not mandated by the elites but rather supported by the people. That is the very definition of populism. I'm not suggesting that all of the party elites positions are incorrect just that they lost track of what was really impacting the people.

and you are exactly right, if Trump fails he will be out in four years.

This short video is emblematic of the point that I am trying to make. Listen to these two media elites. She is essentially saying the people are too stupid to understand nuance and he is saying that we live in a post fact world. She may not have intended my interpretation of her statement, but that is exactly how it comes across to me. To me that sounds as if they believe they are the holder and owner of facts and truth. What condescension.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/cnn-...-media-stronger-than-i-have-ever-felt-before/

Off the subject...do you make it to Austin, Waco, or Lubbock for games at all?

 

[WVPATX]

Off the subject...do you make it to Austin, Waco, or Lubbock for games at all?

My family still lives in WV and they come down frequently to games. I have been to a lot of Big 12 venues in football except for OSU, Kansas and ISU. In basketball, I have been to all venues except for OU, OSU and KSU. In basketball, I was at the game at Kansas when we lead and lost in OT. I was sitting at the site on the court where they called a crucial foul on Dax late in the game. That call cost us the game and it wasn't close to being a foul. He never touched the guy.

We have great fun on those trips even when we lose. Austin is my favorite. Great bars and restaurants.

 

[WVPATX]

My district representative growing up NEVER even had to really run against anyone. He run off his fathers name, and accumulated a massive war chest. He was voted out I believe in 2002. That is the norm. Republicans still get elected in republican districts, Dems get elected in dem districts, and some we see flip flop a little. When the economy is down, switches are made by selling that the left is killing the economy through spending or that the right is killing the economy through being too corrupt. The majority of flip flop voters but it every time. Look at the Presidents since FDR: Dem-rep-dem-rep-dem-rep-rep-dem-rep the only repeat was Reagan to Bush (and Bush got voted out after 4).

Yes, very tough for one party to get more than 8 years. Bush would have won again without Perot. They hated each other.

Term limits won't solve all of our issues, but they would help. If I am a moderate Dem these days, I would be concerned about going too far left. The GOP is generally conservative but not that different than they were under Reagan. I think Dems have really moved to the left. Trump is actually very moderate, certainly not a conservative. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I think on his $1T infrastructure bill, he will be closer to Chuck Schumer than McConnell, for example. But on his energy policies, he will be much closer to the GOP than Dems.

 

[Boomboom521]

My family still lives in WV and they come down frequently to games. I have been to a lot of Big 12 venues in football except for OSU, Kansas and ISU. In basketball, I have been to all venues except for OU, OSU and KSU. In basketball, I was at the game at Kansas when we lead and lost in OT. I was sitting at the site on the court where they called a crucial foul on Dax late in the game. That call cost us the game and it wasn't close to being a foul. He never touched the guy.

We have great fun on those trips even when we lose. Austin is my favorite. Great bars and restaurants.

Do you see a possibility of us getting recruits from the state? Kids liking us at all down that way?

 

[Boomboom521]

Yes, very tough for one party to get more than 8 years. Bush would have won again without Perot. They hated each other.

Term limits won't solve all of our issues, but they would help. If I am a moderate Dem these days, I would be concerned about going too far left. The GOP is generally conservative but not that different than they were under Reagan. I think Dems have really moved to the left. Trump is actually very moderate, certainly not a conservative. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I think on his $1T infrastructure bill, he will be closer to Chuck Schumer than McConnell, for example. But on his energy policies, he will be much closer to the GOP than Dems.

I am worried about the Dems going too far left, but that was my main point. I want progressive policies to get their voice, I want conservative policies to get their voice, I want policy to be debatable again....not so polarized with party

 

[WVPATX]

Do you see a possibility of us getting recruits from the state? Kids liking us at all down that way?

I honestly don't know why we don't focus more on TX. Lots and lots of talent. Lots of QB's. There is a lot of respect for WV in TX so I think we could get 2-3 players a year if we spent more time here.

 

[Boomboom521]

I honestly don't know why we don't focus more on TX. Lots and lots of talent. Lots of QB's. There is a lot of respect for WV in TX so I think we could get 2-3 players a year if we spent more time here.

I think joining the Big12 helps

 

[atlkvb]

It amazes me that he thinks the mistake they made was not being liberal enough.

Not me PAX. The Dems moved to the fringe Left of their party years ago and have spent the past few election cycles only trying to hide who they really are. Now they're honest enough to come right out and admit they're just a bunch of Socialist statist types.

What's curious to me is how they had the real deal in Bernie Sanders, and threw him and his rabid supporters under the bus ostensibly because they didn't think he could get elected!

Now they want those same extreme Leftists they told to talk a walk during their primaries to help them rebuild their rejected party and its crumbling corrupt apparatus.

I'm enjoying the Democrat party demolition show.

 

[atlkvb]

It would be a better America if both parts work together

I hear your sentiment boomer but I honestly don't know how you compromise with a party that thinks half of what we earn belongs to the Federal Government, and even if you allow for that much you're still not paying your "fair share" or enough. So called "death taxes" are 55% at some inheritance limits. They're taxing you even after you die and try to leave most of what you've earned for your surviving heirs!

Where's there room for compromise for someone or a party who thinks like that?

It's like the Arab/Israeli conflict. You have one side sworn or dedicated to the other side's destruction, insisting they don't even have a right to exist.

Where's the compromise position for those folks?

 

[WVPATX]

I hear your sentiment boomer but I honestly don't know how you compromise with a party that thinks half of what we earn belongs to the Federal Government, and even if you allow for that much you're still not paying your "fair share" or enough. So called "death taxes" are 55% at some inheritance limits. They're taxing you even after you die and try to leave most of what you've earned for your surviving heirs!

Where's there room for compromise for someone or a party who thinks like that?

It's like the Arab/Israeli conflict. You have one side sworn or dedicated to the other side's destruction, insisting they don't even have a right to exist.

Where's the compromise position for those folks?

The issue I see for Dems is that they have no leader to push back against the leftist lurch. These guys think Bernie, Warren, Ellison are the future of the party. If I'm a moderate Dem, that frightening. But who has the voice to counter the lurch? Bill Clinton used to buy not anymore. Obama likes the leftward movement. He would have supported Bernie if he thought he could win. They don't have an adult that can tell the children to behave. No elder statesmen to right the ship. So they move further and further left.

 

[atlkvb]

they move further and further left.

I think that's where they've always been PAX, they've just been real good at hiding it. Not so much now...they think the Ellison/ Warren/Sanders types are their future!