Uh oh! Tesla batteries not very green

[Mog]

I don't feel I am responsible for anything outside of my control. When I sell the car, I lose all responsibility for it.

I don't know what to say other than that logic makes no sense to me. What are we even comparing here? If we're solely looking at the CO2 produced during the period of ownership, then why are we even considering the amount of CO2 created during the manufacturing process? You didn't own it while it was being produced in the factory, did you?

If I were an alarmist, I guess I would buy the smallest green car since that creates the least amount of CO2. Do you drive such a car?

What makes one an alarmist? I'm planning on buying a Tesla Model 3 because I think it will be a great car. To me, the fact that it's better for the environment is a bonus.

More importantly, people are constantly preaching about green energy and now we find out that one of the supposed saviors, electric vehicles, have some significant issues with emissions. Not the story being painted by the media, right?

Did we find that out? Or did the linked article produce its own preferred conclusions that were nowhere to be found in the actual study that it attributed them to?

I sat here and read through the study. I noted that the study made no conclusions similar to the ones described by that in the linked article. Because of that, I did some research, and I came up with reasonable data that showed the bolded headline is simply wrong.

I also noted that the study indicated the greatest contributor to CO2 emissions during the battery manufacturing process is the electricity mix of the production location. And given the building that will soon be, by a great margin, the largest battery manufacturing facility in the world will be exclusively powered by renewable energy, I expect that the impact noted will be greatly reduced in only a few years. Generally speaking, there appears to be much more room for improvement in generated CO2 from EVs than there is for ICE vehicles.

 

[moe]

Worth noting that they don't yet manufacture their own solar panels. They're building a factory in Buffalo to that end, though.

I'm talking about panels not solar roof tiles. This article may be ill informed but that's where I got it from.
Tesla shareholders approve deal to buy SolarCity
The acquisition makes SolarCity, which is the nation's largest manufacturer and installer of solar panels, a wholly owned subsidiary of Tesla. More than 85% of shares voted were cast in favor of the acquisition.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2016/11/17/tesla-solarcity-deal-xxxx/94020994/

 

[Mog]

I'm talking about panels not solar roof tiles. This article may be ill informed but that's where I got it from.
Tesla shareholders approve deal to buy SolarCity
The acquisition makes SolarCity, which is the nation's largest manufacturer and installer of solar panels, a wholly owned subsidiary of Tesla. More than 85% of shares voted were cast in favor of the acquisition.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2016/11/17/tesla-solarcity-deal-xxxx/94020994/

Yeah, that's definitely incorrect. This article from 2014 talks about how they purchased another company so that they could get into the manufacturing business. They're planning on making both panels and the roof in Buffalo.

 

[moe]

Yeah, that's definitely incorrect. This article from 2014 talks about how they purchased another company so that they could get into the manufacturing business. They're planning on making both panels and the roof in Buffalo.

The USA Today article is from November 2016 and you're showing me that Solar City has been a manufacturer since 2014. How does that disprove the USA Today article? My web searches have not found a current list of top U.S. manufacturers. It's academic but I didn't see where you showed that they weren't the top U.S. manufacturer.

 

[Mog]

The USA Today article is from November 2016 and you're showing me that Solar City has been a manufacturer since 2014. How does that disprove the USA Today article? My web searches have not found a current list of top U.S. manufacturers. It's academic but I didn't see where you showed that they weren't the top U.S. manufacturer.

Interesting- it was my understanding that Solarcity bought out Silevo because of the technology they were developing, and they planned to use that in Buffalo. I thought their technology hadn't been put into commercial production. It looks like I was wrong, since they do have a manufacturing facility in Hangzhou, China. Oddly, there's very little information on that plant to be found by googling around. I'm going to need more coffee if I keep browsing through quarterly financial reports... ugh.

 

[moe]

Interesting- it was my understanding that Solarcity bought out Silevo because of the technology they were developing, and they planned to use that in Buffalo. I thought their technology hadn't been put into commercial production. It looks like I was wrong, since they do have a manufacturing facility in Hangzhou, China. Oddly, there's very little information on that plant to be found by googling around. I'm going to need more coffee if I keep browsing through quarterly financial reports... ugh.

FWIW, I was surprised to see the claim in USA Today. I always thought of Solar City primarily as an installer.

 

[WVPATX]

I don't know what to say other than that logic makes no sense to me. What are we even comparing here? If we're solely looking at the CO2 produced during the period of ownership, then why are we even considering the amount of CO2 created during the manufacturing process? You didn't own it while it was being produced in the factory, did you?


What makes one an alarmist? I'm planning on buying a Tesla Model 3 because I think it will be a great car. To me, the fact that it's better for the environment is a bonus.


Did we find that out? Or did the linked article produce its own preferred conclusions that were nowhere to be found in the actual study that it attributed them to?

I sat here and read through the study. I noted that the study made no conclusions similar to the ones described by that in the linked article. Because of that, I did some research, and I came up with reasonable data that showed the bolded headline is simply wrong.

I also noted that the study indicated the greatest contributor to CO2 emissions during the battery manufacturing process is the electricity mix of the production location. And given the building that will soon be, by a great margin, the largest battery manufacturing facility in the world will be exclusively powered by renewable energy, I expect that the impact noted will be greatly reduced in only a few years. Generally speaking, there appears to be much more room for improvement in generated CO2 from EVs than there is for ICE vehicles.

Better buy that car before the subsidy ends. It's enormous.

 

[Mog]

Better buy that car before the subsidy ends. It's enormous.

Yeah, that shouldn't be a problem. They're supposed to start producing the Model 3 next month, though it'll take them a while to ramp up production to a reasonable rate (and Elon Musk companies never meet their schedule deadlines anyhow). I'm planning on holding out until early next year.

Based on Tesla's current sales rate, the full $7,500 credit will be available until either March 31st or June 30th of next year (more likely the latter). Though it phases out over time, so there will be a $3,750 credit for 6 months after that, and $1,875 for the next 6 months before completely expiring.

 

[WVPATX]

Yeah, that shouldn't be a problem. They're supposed to start producing the Model 3 next month, though it'll take them a while to ramp up production to a reasonable rate (and Elon Musk companies never meet their schedule deadlines anyhow). I'm planning on holding out until early next year.

Based on Tesla's current sales rate, the full $7,500 credit will be available until either March 31st or June 30th of next year (more likely the latter). Though it phases out over time, so there will be a $3,750 credit for 6 months after that, and $1,875 for the next 6 months before completely expiring.

My best friend's wife owns one and loves it. The only issue she has had is that she was in an accident and it took three months for the bodywork. I believe the new tax reform being discussed, phases out all sorts of subsidies. So the time frames that you believe are accurate, may not be.

 

[Mog]

My best friend's wife owns one and loves it. The only issue she has had is that she was in an accident and it took three months for the bodywork. I believe the new tax reform being discussed, phases out all sorts of subsidies. So the time frames that you believe are accurate, may not be.

Yeah, delays in repairs is one of the biggest complaints among Tesla owners from what I've read. Apparently they're taking steps to address it, though I worry it will only get worse if they produce the Model 3 in the numbers they're striving for. In the past week or so they certified 2 new body shops for repairs in the Pittsburgh area.

On another note with regard to taxes, the new WV roads bill imposes an annual $200 registration fee on EVs and $100 annual fee on plug-in hybrids.