to me, it's a legit question to mention holgs' qb recruiting to this point......

[john in california]

other than trickett -- who had a number of good moments, but also a number of marginal ones and can't be considered a true standout qb when all is considered -- we have to consider the fact that hulgs' has not exactly lit up the stage when it comes to bringing in the for-real top-flight qb a team needs to compete for top rung in the big 12 ..... geno smith was very good much of the time, but holgs' inherited him.....

imo, indignity at the suggestion holgs' has largely struck out to this point in reeling in a franchise qb is misplaced.....crest is/was supposed to be the future, but we seem to get the indication he is not ready.....howard's performances in big games thus far (texas a&m and oklahoma) do beg some concern, because the wvu schedule is full of big games.....

holgs obviously seems to be able to coach up quarterbacks recruited by someone else (houston, ok state, texas tech), but does he have the ability to land one himself? ..... just askin'.....that is a legitimate question, is it not?.....

 

[bamaEER]

On paper, he's recruited well. Seems like the problem is the finished product.

 

[Charleston Mountie]

On paper, he's recruited well. Seems like the problem is the finished product.

This leaves only two possible choices:

1) On paper looks good because it is a poor evaluation

2) The evaluation is correct but the qb lacked proper coaching to develop

Either way, this falls on the coach, he either does not know what he is looking for or if he does he does not know how to develop the talent.

 

[3xWVUenginEER]

Since 1980, WVU has had what 6 legit qbs who could really throw the ball with success (Luck, Hoss, Harris, Kelchner, Bulger, and Smith). I guess Chad Johnston could be in there too.

Of those 7, only 1 has really had any success in the league. Also Scotty McBrian but that was only against WVU and while wearing the Gold & Blue he only threw a real big pass to Syracuse (stupid Bill Legg play call). I guess Browning Nagle too but he transferred out due to the Maj.

That's really at most 7 qbs in 33 seasons or 1 every 5 years. Hes about on average with other coaches at WVU, so I'm not that concerned.

The previous coaching staff (Jeff Mullen particularly) was allowed to charter private planes going all over and really after the supposed best qbs out there. The best qb signed during that time was Damon Cogdell gift wrapped in Geno Smith who had been coming here since he was about 12 for summer camps. Alabama hasn't had a great qb in years, and Tommy Tubberville looks like he stole the best Alabama high school qb Hayden Moore for Cincinnati. It's hard to find a good qb that can throw.

Also though give Howard some more time. He's only really had 1 tough road outing. He can improve and learn.

Btw WVU is running the ball about 60% of the time this season, so the offense has made adjustments.

 

[wvpack]

Since 1980, WVU has had what 6 legit qbs who could really throw the ball with success (Luck, Hoss, Harris, Kelchner, Bulger, and Smith). I guess Chad Johnston could be in there too.

Of those 7, only 1 has really had any success in the league. Also Scotty McBrian but that was only against WVU and while wearing the Gold & Blue he only threw a real big pass to Syracuse (stupid Bill Legg play call). I guess Browning Nagle too but he transferred out due to the Maj.

That's really at most 7 qbs in 33 seasons or 1 every 5 years. Hes about on average with other coaches at WVU, so I'm not that concerned.

The previous coaching staff (Jeff Mullen particularly) was allowed to charter private planes going all over and really after the supposed best qbs out there. The best qb signed during that time was Damon Cogdell gift wrapped in Geno Smith who had been coming here since he was about 12 for summer camps. Alabama hasn't had a great qb in years, and Tommy Tubberville looks like he stole the best Alabama high school qb Hayden Moore for Cincinnati. It's hard to find a good qb that can throw.

Also though give Howard some more time. He's only really had 1 tough road outing. He can improve and learn.

Btw WVU is running the ball about 60% of the time this season, so the offense has made adjustments.

You forgot Pat White and Jarrett Brown. Both were good college qbs. Now if you preface throwing qbs then perhaps. Pat still got several NFL stints.

 

[3xWVUenginEER]

Didn't forget them.

Pat was a great college football player, but he could not really throw the ball. He had 1-300 yd passing game out of 3.5 seasons. Not his fault though, had a coach who for majority of that time that never has developed a qb to throw the ball.

Jarrett Brown really was in the same boat, "Read Option". Run the ball 70% of the time.

I once heard Jujuan Seider, who was Jarretts HS coach say, "they never developed either of them as passers!"

 

[bamaEER]

Having said all that, I'm not finished with Howard just yet. Aside from his overthrow issue, seems like the kid does have a solid skill set. Yeah, he got beat up, but that blame is on the line. But his TD/INT ratio is solid and I like his reads. If he can just calm down and let his natural throwing mechanics take over, he may be a really good QB when it's all said and done.

 

[VaultHunter]

Howard has started 7 games and had a bad game against OKLAHOMA which was not all his fault. The other 6 he has played good enough for WVU to win.

Crest we haven't even had a chance to see fully.

Sills we haven't seen at all.

Chugs we haven't seen at all.

This topic is getting old my lawd

 

[Phil1972]

"Since 1980, WVU has had what 6 legit qbs who could really throw the ball with success (Luck, Hoss, Harris, Kelchner, Bulger, and Smith). I guess Chad Johnston could be in there tof those 7, only 1 has really had any success in the league."

I assume you mean Bulger (9 seasons with St. Louis), but I seem to remember another one of those guys leading his team to a Super Bowl victory...

 

[GoWVU]

Since 1980, WVU has had what 6 legit qbs who could really throw the ball with success (Luck, Hoss, Harris, Kelchner, Bulger, and Smith). I guess Chad Johnston could be in there too.

Of those 7, only 1 has really had any success in the league.

Who cares whether West Virginia QBs can throw the ball or have any success in the NFL? The only issue that matters for our purposes is whether they are top college QBs in whatever system we run at that time.

Pat White might be way down the list of passers, but he accomplished more here than any QB we have had bar none. RR ran the ball all the time here, so Rasheed and Pat were perfect.

None of Leach's QBs at Texas Tech had any NFL success, but they were all outstanding college QBs for his Air Raid system.

In that respect, john in california has a totally valid point. Holgorsen decided to change to that type of offense, which is fine. However, it puts a burden on him to keep coming up with "system" passing QBs of the type that Leach always had. So far DH hasn't been able to do that at all, which is rather perplexing.

Just look at the list you named above. How odd is it that most were recruited for WVU offenses which typically tried NOT to put heavy burdens on the QB? Seems very unusual to me that offenses like that would have better college QBs than a current coach and offense which definitely tries to make the QB the star.

 

[irishladdy]

Since 1980, WVU has had what 6 legit qbs who could really throw the ball with success (Luck, Hoss, Harris, Kelchner, Bulger, and Smith). I guess Chad Johnston could be in there too.

Of those 7, only 1 has really had any success in the league. Also Scotty McBrian but that was only against WVU and while wearing the Gold & Blue he only threw a real big pass to Syracuse (stupid Bill Legg play call). I guess Browning Nagle too but he transferred out due to the Maj.

That's really at most 7 qbs in 33 seasons or 1 every 5 years. Hes about on average with other coaches at WVU, so I'm not that concerned.

The previous coaching staff (Jeff Mullen particularly) was allowed to charter private planes going all over and really after the supposed best qbs out there. The best qb signed during that time was Damon Cogdell gift wrapped in Geno Smith who had been coming here since he was about 12 for summer camps. Alabama hasn't had a great qb in years, and Tommy Tubberville looks like he stole the best Alabama high school qb Hayden Moore for Cincinnati. It's hard to find a good qb that can throw.

Also though give Howard some more time. He's only really had 1 tough road outing. He can improve and learn.

Btw WVU is running the ball about 60% of the time this season, so the offense has made adjustments.

Seems kind of strange to limit the list to passing QB's when for most of the last decade we primarily used dual threat running QB's... but yet when calculating your average you used the full 33 years.

I think Pat White, Rasheed Marshall, etc were pretty successful for that system. Your are in effect lowering your average simply because RR by design didn't use pocket passers in his system.

 

[Woody in Helvetia]

John - it is a legitimate question. And we are not looking for the next HOF NFL QB. We are looking for QB's that fit the system Holgorsen is using.

The string of QB's is still rolling into TTech. Enough so that there are so many that some have transferred and are have great(OK) to moderate(VT) success at other schools.

 

[HurdyGurdyEer]

I don't really consider Trickett to be a Holgorsen "recruit." Yeah .... Trick transferred to WVU ... but in many respects he was just coming home.

 

[wbgvwbgv]

It wasn't that long ago when some were questioning Huggins' ability to recruit and retain players, and now there are some questions related to Holgorsen. Of course making the sweet sixteen last year put an end to most of Huggin's questions and conjectures surrounding his program.

Holgorsen was a very hot commodity before arriving in Morgantown. Having only spent two years at Houston and one year at OSU doesn't really afford you the opportunity to recruit players from High School and develop them ( that process normally takes 3-4 years and longer when redshirt freshman are involved ). And I am not sure how much credit Holgorsen should get for the great QBs that TT produced while he was at that program.

At WVU, he certainly did an amazing coaching job with Geno during his first two years who was recruited long before Holgorsen arrived. I also think that he did a great job with Trickett last year even though he was a FSU transfer. Holgorsen has produced NFL QBs at almost every stop in his coaching career.

If you only get credit for the players recruited while you were a head coach and anyone on the roster when you arrived doesn't count plus you exclude transfers players then you are looking mainly at this year and it is way too early to pass judgement on Skyler Howard after only 4 games this season - particularly since he looked really good 3 of the 4 games. And Crest, Sills, and Chugs are yet to come.

Would RR and Pat White and our Big East chamopionship teams really be dominating the Big 12 this year or any other power conference? How would they fare playing 3 top ten schools on the road plus another top 20 team at home all in one month?

http://www.footballperspective.com/comparing-geno-smith-to-other-leach-holgorsen-quarterbacks/

 

[WarezEER]

There just ain't enough great high school quarterbacks to go around. WV must pick from the 'best of the rest'. The Big Money schools pick first. I'm talking about Alabama, Florida State, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Clemson, Oregon, Texas, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Michigan, Southern California, etc. WV cannot pay like these Big Money schools.............and I left out the other 50 schools that can pay better than WV. The big money schools pay up front. They don't need credit (jawbone). Warez

 

[Atreides]

Think the questions are legit. I'm sure Texas Tech will roll in with another QB....a frosh beat us the last time in Morgantown. We have a lot of Big Games left...we'll have a lot of opportunities to see how Howard handles it. Right now he remninds me of the Rutgers QB Pitt had for a season...Mr. Savage. Don't buy the big money argument. These are DH's players, time to start turning the corner.

 

[Orlaco]

So it's just now a 'legit question' ??

Somebody needs to start reading threads other than the ones he started.

 

[3xWVUenginEER]

Who cares whether West Virginia QBs can throw the ball or have any success in the NFL? The only issue that matters for our purposes is whether they are top college QBs in whatever system we run at that time.

Pat White might be way down the list of passers, but he accomplished more here than any QB we have had bar none. RR ran the ball all the time here, so Rasheed and Pat were perfect.

None of Leach's QBs at Texas Tech had any NFL success, but they were all outstanding college QBs for his Air Raid system..

Success in the NFL I somewhat agree but ability to throw the ball, I sure care considering we run an "air raid offense" off the Hal Mumme, not Mike Leach tree. You have to throw the ball at least 40% of the time. You really need 50-50.

Pat White did NOT accomplish more than any QB we have ever had bar none. Pat White was a great football player on 4 winning Bowl Teams. 3 of those were nice wins, but I'd take Major finishing top 5 in the Heisman twice, breaking down the color barrier for qb, and honestly playing, putting up better passing numbers, and beating better competition in a 2D offense.

As for Leach's qbs, Cliff Kingsberry was Tom Brady's backup and has a Super Bowl ring. He bounced around to other teams. This after leaving TX Tech holding about every passing record.

Graham Harrell broke a lot of those records later with Dana as OC and backed up some guy named Aaron Rogers in Green Bay.

And as I said it's hard to find a great passer. Alabama & Auburn as well as half the SEC missed out on a kid Tubberville took to Cincinnati.

Seems kind of strange to limit the list to passing QB's when for most of the last decade we primarily used dual threat running QB's... but yet when calculating your average you used the full 33 years.

I think Pat White, Rasheed Marshall, etc were pretty successful for that system. Your are in effect lowering your average simply because RR by design didn't use pocket passers in his system.

You ever stop to think why Dick didn't recruit pocket passers? Probably cause he can't coach that offense or develop a qb to throw and passers are hard to find especially for the Northeast part of the U.S in college.

Heck he ran off Ryan Mallett to Arkansas when he went to Michigan. Yeah that was a bright move. Much like Dick running off Scotty McBrian to a rival and then watch him beat your ass 3 times in 2 seasons.

Also I will repeat what JuJuan Seiders said when referring to Brown & White by Rodriguez and his staff, "Niether were ever developed as passers."



I'm done on this.

 

[irishladdy]

You ever stop to think why Dick didn't recruit pocket passers? Probably cause he can't coach that offense or develop a qb to throw and passers are hard to find especially for the Northeast part of the U.S in college.

Heck he ran off Ryan Mallett to Arkansas when he went to Michigan. Yeah that was a bright move. Much like Dick running off Scotty McBrian to a rival and then watch him beat your ass 3 times in 2 seasons.

Also I will repeat what JuJuan Seiders said when referring to Brown & White by Rodriguez and his staff, "Niether were ever developed as passers."



I'm done on this.

Because pocket passers don't fit his system as well as dual threat QB's?

Denard Robinson was a very successful QB for him. His problem there was on defense. It's not every college coaches goal to put pocket passers in the NFL. It's to win games with whatever players best fit their system.

 

[GoWVU]

Pat White did NOT accomplish more than any QB we have ever had bar none.

Sure he did:

1) First QB in school history to take us to a BCS-level bowl win. We had never done it once before and Pat did it twice.

2) For that matter, it should be noted our bowl record was so sorry before Pat got here that he was the first QB in school history even to win a Gator Bowl at WVU. Merely a second-tier New Year's Day game and we still haven't won it before or since without him. 4-0 all-time in bowls with Pat and 10-19 all-time without him.

3) The coup de grace...Pat became the first QB in the history of college football to win bowl games as a starter all 4 years, a record that by definition can never be broken. He was the MVP in the final 3 of those 4, something else which never occurred at WVU before and likely never will again.

Further, it should be noted that--although not #5 and #3 finishes like Major--Pat is the only other player in school history to finish in the top 10 of the Heisman voting twice (#6 and #7).

I was just as big a fan of Major as anybody else and he did some tremendous things here. Reaching the national championship game counts for a ton, and so do the great finishes in the Heisman voting. Undoubtedly he was a far more gifted passer and more physical player than Pat was.

In the end, however, most of Major's accomplishments were individual and the program saw very little long-term benefit. By contrast, Pat accomplished drastically more for the team and the program. Without that recent legacy of big bowl wins that Pat started still fresh in people's minds, we may not have been invited to the Big 12 at all. Remember that the Orange Bowl had not occurred yet when the invitation and acceptance came.

Of course we're splitting hairs to some degree on our 2 best QBs ever. Major was the more athletically gifted player and had some higher peak individual moments. Pat, however, did a far better job of maximizing the results for the team from his more limited skill set. Thus, it's eminently defensible to say he accomplished more here...because we have the tangible output.

 

[dolemitebmf]

"Since 1980, WVU has had what 6 legit qbs who could really throw the ball with success (Luck, Hoss, Harris, Kelchner, Bulger, and Smith). I guess Chad Johnston could be in there tof those 7, only 1 has really had any success in the league."

I assume you mean Bulger (9 seasons with St. Louis), but I seem to remember another one of those guys leading his team to a Super Bowl victory...

That one also threw for 16,400 yards, 94 TDs, and played 14 years...