The Badass Big 12
- Thread starter HurdyGurdyEer
- Start date
In case the link isn't available the article is by Dennis Dodd on the CBS sports site. The title is:
Expansion still in play for the bold Big 12, and it could affect the Big Ten
The first line reads: The question now is how bad-ass the Big 12 wants to be.
Expansion still in play for the bold Big 12, and it could affect the Big Ten
The first line reads: The question now is how bad-ass the Big 12 wants to be.
I did. When it didn't show up I edited the first post and attempted to insert the link again.
I'll try it a third time and see what happens.
And here it is:
I found a way to post the link
--http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/expansion-still-in-play-for-bold-big-12-and-it-could-affect-the-big-ten/
Very interesting...the B12 may not be as inept as many make it out to be. Expansion for expansion may not be the answer.
Exactly. Until there are 2 viable options for expansion, it makes more sense to remain at 10. The Big 12 will be able to have the conference championship with 10 teams and maintain the round robin schedule.
'
'Viable options' is a relative phrase. I think you mean 'obvious choices' (and even that doesn't have a clear definition).
Nothing wrong with that approach if you're willing to risk not being the first conference to offer those type of schools (if if one ever exists again). ....we know that's never been a problem for the Big 12. The have and have nots are only going to get further separation because it's a war that takes money. Short of Power 5 schools candidates just don't have the ammo.
I understand the people that don't want expansion...but it is now a long term investment. To expect teams to have an instant impact on the conference just isn't reasonable. Again, it's fine if you're against expansion...just don't expect a dark horse school to magically fall into the Big 12's lap.
It just ain't gonna happen.
'Viable options' is a relative phrase. I think you mean 'obvious choices' (and even that doesn't have a clear definition).
Nothing wrong with that approach if you're willing to risk not being the first conference to offer those type of schools (if if one ever exists again). ....we know that's never been a problem for the Big 12. The have and have nots are only going to get further separation because it's a war that takes money. Short of Power 5 schools candidates just don't have the ammo.
I understand the people that don't want expansion...but it is now a long term investment. To expect teams to have an instant impact on the conference just isn't reasonable. Again, it's fine if you're against expansion...just don't expect a dark horse school to magically fall into the Big 12's lap.
It just ain't gonna happen.
I'm glad that Steve linked up everyone and I'm glad that some have taken the time to read it. It should make everyone feel good things going forward.
But it will be interesting to see how things (conference alignment and media outlets) get structured over the next 5-10 years.
But it will be interesting to see how things (conference alignment and media outlets) get structured over the next 5-10 years.
Trying a link to an unrelated article on ESPN.
http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/201...y-west-defends-nba-finals-record-lebron-james
http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/201...y-west-defends-nba-finals-record-lebron-james
So if expansion is still being hung out there as a possibility, who would even be considered? Thought that most concurred that commuter schools were out and we stay at 10 with a CCG now?
So if they are going to decide 2 - 4 teams, who are they?
A. Cinci
B. UCF
C. Memphis
D. Colorado St.
E. BYU
F. None of the above
Really curious who they go for if a decision is made by the end of this Summer to expand... IF they decide to.
So if they are going to decide 2 - 4 teams, who are they?
A. Cinci
B. UCF
C. Memphis
D. Colorado St.
E. BYU
F. None of the above
Really curious who they go for if a decision is made by the end of this Summer to expand... IF they decide to.
OOhhhh the BIG12 is inept, and dysfunctional but somehow seem to keep coming out OK despite itself. You just wonder how long Texas and OU really want to put up with each other chit.
Someone needs to do a live & well check on Buck, I'm worried he isn't handling this...
Just look at that pathetic list. Is it any wonder the Big 12 isn't expanding? It looks like a who's who of CUSA. Byu, Colorado state, and Houston are the best options.
Texas
Texas Tech
TCU
Baylor
BYU
Colorado State
Iowa State
_________
West Virginia
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Kansas
Kansas State
Memphis
Central Florida
6 Division Games
4 Crossover Games (see teams every other year)
2 Out of Conference (no more non P5 tune ups)
Obviously TX and OU reg season remains on the schedule.
Texas Tech
TCU
Baylor
BYU
Colorado State
Iowa State
_________
West Virginia
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Kansas
Kansas State
Memphis
Central Florida
6 Division Games
4 Crossover Games (see teams every other year)
2 Out of Conference (no more non P5 tune ups)
Obviously TX and OU reg season remains on the schedule.
It's slim pickings if you ask me and honestly a big gamble... a gamble I am not so sure I would want to make for now.
Texas has set the conference up for a huge fall in a few years.
They've blocked expansion and a conference network but- because they want more money, pushed for and got just a 10 team CCG. A guaranteed rematch is going to be very bad with a 50-50 shot of the leagues hope for the playoff being knocked out every year.
Oklahoma is likely done with the conference as soon as they can be.
Fully expect that in 2023 when the Big Tens second new contract is up for renewal that they will approach KU and OU for membership. They'll accept for arrival as soon as the BIG 12 gor is up in 2025. That will end all chances of the BIG 12 gaining a new competitive contract in their negotiations around 2024 and also set up the Big Tens buddy- the PAC 12 to get what they have wanted- Texas.
Texas, Tech and perhaps TCU ( which were obviously made some promises to also oppose improving the conference) will likely move on to the PAC as soon as the grant expires in the BIG 12 with UT using the "cover" of OU leaving. Expect either ISU or KSU to join those three out west.
That will push the SEC to expand and they'll surely look at Oklahoma State first. Their last slot will come down to WVU or Baylor ( or TCU if the frogs didn't go west with Texas). If TCU is available WVU is in trouble because there's no chance to beat out the DFW market and the recruiting. Baylor is close to A and M and full of scandals now so that could go either way.
ND will join the ACC to keep from being left at the door of the CFP and there will be one slot left for WVU to try to make it in.
WVU has about 7-9 years to make itself as attractive as possible.
They've blocked expansion and a conference network but- because they want more money, pushed for and got just a 10 team CCG. A guaranteed rematch is going to be very bad with a 50-50 shot of the leagues hope for the playoff being knocked out every year.
Oklahoma is likely done with the conference as soon as they can be.
Fully expect that in 2023 when the Big Tens second new contract is up for renewal that they will approach KU and OU for membership. They'll accept for arrival as soon as the BIG 12 gor is up in 2025. That will end all chances of the BIG 12 gaining a new competitive contract in their negotiations around 2024 and also set up the Big Tens buddy- the PAC 12 to get what they have wanted- Texas.
Texas, Tech and perhaps TCU ( which were obviously made some promises to also oppose improving the conference) will likely move on to the PAC as soon as the grant expires in the BIG 12 with UT using the "cover" of OU leaving. Expect either ISU or KSU to join those three out west.
That will push the SEC to expand and they'll surely look at Oklahoma State first. Their last slot will come down to WVU or Baylor ( or TCU if the frogs didn't go west with Texas). If TCU is available WVU is in trouble because there's no chance to beat out the DFW market and the recruiting. Baylor is close to A and M and full of scandals now so that could go either way.
ND will join the ACC to keep from being left at the door of the CFP and there will be one slot left for WVU to try to make it in.
WVU has about 7-9 years to make itself as attractive as possible.
That list is not one that depicts 'slim pickings!' I remember a similar list a few years ago that West Virginia showed up on. WV is not and was not 'slim pickings' but some other folks put us on such a list. Crazy world.
You do have a point of sorts from the perspective of us being on that list not long ago. Other than BYU with it's Pitt-esque National Championship win many moons ago (more than 30 years), none of the others have accomplished what we have. Which is why I said 'slim pickings' based on their value, achievements and contributions.
If Gee can just figure out how to:
win a National Championship in football
double the state's population
grow our state economy amidst the decline of coal
change our admission standards and divert poor risk students to community college and reverse the current strategy of growing enrollment to 40K
WVU ought to be golden.
No. A rematch is not a 50-50 shot. Most years, one team is going to be clearly better. Doesn't matter. Money trumps everything. If the money were there for expansion, it would trump everything.
Meanwhile for your paranoid fantasy to come about OU has to become AAU certified, the PAC has to permit Texas to keep the LHN, the Big10 has to take the ACC off their radar and the SEC has to abandon their strategy of no state with more than one member team. Somehow you've convinced yourself that all this is more likely than Texas and Oklahoma realizing that they own the golden goose and are compensated far more than their performance on the field would justify. They already are both ranked #2 and #8 in sports revenue and that is only going to increase.
In the meantime, every school has looked at the expansion data and there are at least 3 of them (if not more) who have determined that the self-interest of their school is not served by expansion with the current candidates. It doesn't really matter if promises were made or if the presidents on their own concluded that expansion was a no go - actually it sounds like they are still going to be talking about it in the future. There has never been an actionable item for the fanbase, other than decide yay or nay for getting the panties in a twist. Like I've said all along, if expansion was a brilliant idea it would have already been done.
Look at the bright side. Now you have something to do with your life for the next 9 years.
Paranoid fantasy? The only fantasy here is yours. BIG 12 schools have been played.
Boren told you before- if these improvements aren't implemented, OU will have to reconsider its future. If you think the B1G won't jump for joy and hurriedly accept OU, you are nuts.
Texas CLEARLY is not interested in the conference, just their domination over it. We saw their writers state- UT will dump the LHN to move to another conference- just not for the BIG 12 --- which UT and its fans look down upon like you look down on the programs that would have secured the long term future of this conference.
Texas and OU are gone as soon as they get the chance , while you still fantasize the ACC is falling apart.
The conference could have been great, now it's champion will be left out many years with a rematch- and it will not make it to the next contracts. 2023- count on talk of the b10 and PAC poaching. Count on the networks refusing to make a competitive bid on a league losing several members.
But you go on, keep getting strung along that the conference will continue to consider expansion -and may do it, or that they will address the enormous financial gap growing yearly between the Big Ten and SEC and the B12.
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And you'll have the rest of your life to do something with yours once the conference has collapsed and schools like WVU are struggling to find a home and forced into playing the " worthless, undeserving, commuter schools" you've whined about for years for a full schedule.
The SEC reported earnings of $527.4 million including the CFP and SEC Network for the past season on Jan 19, 2016. That's $32.7 million per school, including the SEC network. Compare that to WVU's combined income from the Big 12 and IMG. The SEC's total income may hit $40 million for some schools including ads and radio broadcasts. But WVU's $38 million total is not exactly the former Big East now is it?
The SEC hasn't exactly left the neighborhood yet, has it?
The SEC hasn't exactly left the neighborhood yet, has it?
A lot of people have been run off of TOS; I wouldn't make too much of it. Stating that sounds a lot like someone complaining they got banned on the Panty Lair
No one "ran me off" any site- there are more intelligent people here than over there- well, except for maybe one....
Buck for two years you have been wrong about expansion and you are wrong about this. Sure a guaranteed rematch is odd to say the least, but it increases the chances of getting into the CCP NOT DECREASE.
You are wrong about the next round of expansion. The B1Gs next move is going down the same line it took last time, which is down the eastern seaboard, with the following schools, DUKE, UNC, VA, GT.
BIG12 Expansion is not dead, it just isn't moving the way you want or predicted. I told you almost 2 years ago, the first move the BIG12 would make is to create a CCG once the new regulation passed, and guess what, that is exactly what happened. Why? First to split CCG money 10 way not 12. Second, not to rush expansion for expansion sake. If THE BIG12 wants to expand with G5 programs, those same programs will be just as eager to join there 3-5 years from now. If the BIG12 finds a 10 team conf championship is not helping with CCP, then they will look at G5 schools. Otherwise they will wait until the B1G raids the ACC (which they will), and pick up some very solid pieces.
Texas does not want to go to PAC and OU does not want to go to SEC or B1G. Both are satisfied if the BIG12 remains a solid third in revenue, and they can stay close enough to B1G and SEC money when you add third tier money they are making.
The only thing that will foul up what I laid out, is if ND joins the ACC as a full member. If that happens, ESPN gives a new contract contract to the ACC and they sign a stronger GOR. This stabilizes the ACC and makes the BIG12 conference vulnerable for poaching as you laid out above.
What do you mean when you say I was "wrong about expansion"?
I haven't ever said something specific would happen with expansion, I discussed what the conference was considering and why they were considering it . I agreed with what they were trying to accomplish because those steps would guarantee the long term viability of the conference.
Now UT has blocked all of that- but wants the money from a championship game so pushed the members to give them that even though many of the coaches have not wanted that.
You claim that will be a benefit. It might be better statistically according to the analysts than remaining at ten without one- because the other conferences have one. BUT, that doesn't address if the team that won the first matchup loses the second time around.
In the five years the BIg 12 had rematches previously, 40% of the time the team beaten in the first matchup won the CCG rematch.
40% of the time between 2017 and 2025 will mean that more than 3 of those 8 years the BIG 12 is left out.
The problem with people like you is you can't think past today.
Expansion for "expansions sake" never had anything to do with why the BIG 12 wanted to expand. That was what those opposed to expansion tried to make it into in order to keep the conference from acting in its best interests.
And unfortunately they have succeeded. Expansion was about bringing BIG 12 revenues up to par with their peers long term, and eliminating any competitive disadvantages, as well as setting up a conference network and setting the conference up to have a larger footprint , more inventory and more viewers for the next contract negotiations.
3-5 years from now the BIg 12 will be 3-5 years further behind the Big Ten and SEC in revenues which will make keeping up with them impossible except for- you guessed it, Texas. The BIg 12 will have three- five more years of mediocre viewing and three- five more years of steady negative press. They will have been left out of the playoffs more.
If the BIG 12, after realizing yet again they made a colossal mistake-looks at schools many have been duped into thinking are " worthless commuter schools" 3-5 years down the line? Those schools are going to be 3-5 years removed from revenues, good tv deals, everything that would have allowed them to remain competitive. If they aren't attractive now, what will they be when they haven't been on tv or had competitive revenues or recruiting for another five years?
You as usual bring up the ACC pipe dream that isn't ever going to happen. The ACC isn't going anywhere and in fact WVU fans better hope it doesn't because it's going to have one of the two possible slots left for WVU to remain relevant once UT and OU walk Out with a couple of others. The ACC once again has a grant of rights that doesn't end until 2027. None of their schools are jumping out of that binding legal agreement or coming up with the 50 million buyout costs either.
Doesn't matter anyway because the BIg 12s deal is up in 2025- 2 yrs before the ACC can be even considered for poaching. The Big Tens deal renews in 2023 and the Pacs in 2024- perfect timing for a double raid on the BIG 12 to ensure the Big and PAC continue their partnership and competition is eliminated. The BIg 12 will not get to that next contract because OU and UT won't be a part.
If you think UT or OU are ok with being 3rd in revenue to anyone you need to wake yourself up because you are dreaming.
The Big 12 like you is short sighted. Texas is myopic. The other schools are surely realizing that things may not be rosy down the road, but as usual they are being strung along with "oh we are happy to be third" and " we may still consider expansion" so that they themselves don't mess up the plan of the powers that be by being proactive for themselves. They'll all be searching for a new home relatively soon.
They haven't pointed out anything, and the only thing I was wrong about was that the conference would adopt a ridiculously bad idea10 team CCG that will put them at a huge disadvantage to the other P5s than what they feared previously. A few of those other posters have helped to ensure a struggle for WVU in the near future -with the help of some like you. They've helped ensure the conferences they root for will be better positioned and better able to pick off WVUs conference mates, and you helped them.
If ND were ever to join the ACC then they will probably stipulate that they also want to pick a school (16th member) that they want to partner with.
It may sound odd but that 16th school could be Navy.
Navy is important to ND from a historical playing perspective and having them in the ACC may be required for ND football membership. Additionally, having Navy in the ACC would also bring the ACC back into Maryland.
Not saying it will happen but would not be totally surprised if such a scenario happened.
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
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