That 4th and short call SHOULDN'T have lost the game...

The Bell Tolls for Thee

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but it did.

WVU should have won with either call, but because much of the same old problems with Neal coached teams are still present it was. And a coach with self awareness would have noticed.

1st. James dropped a catch that a starting WR at this level should have made on the 1st down of the series that eventually lead to the 4th down.

2nd. WVU had offensive trouble against Pitt much of the game. We had the lead only because of the blocked the punt. However we were rolling on the previous 2 possessions and had Pitt on their heels after good defensive stops kept them on the field.

3rd. Pitt was moving the ball against WVU better than the reverse except for the 2 series leading up to this call. WVU benefited from the blocked punt and field position battle much of the game. Pitt was also starting to exploit our defensive backs. It was only our D line that stopped them the prior series.

It all adds up to going for it on 4th and 1. Turn it over and Pitt has good field position, but still has to score a TD. Get the first down and you are in position to chew more of that 6 minute clock and possible go up 2 scores. Easy math.
 

deedoubleyou

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What I saw were the drops combined with bad blocking. Who said the OL was the strength of the team? Harrell? Because they looked like the weak link, once again. Daniels got hit way too much and had to rush too many throws. The OL is not the strength of the team at all, and we have to find an OL coach who can actually coach up players. Whoever we have now isnt getting it done and never has. Its been a big problem under Neal.
 

MountaineerWV

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OL - Really bad, AGAIN. Either some of these guys were overhyped out of high school, or when they arrive they don't receive much advancement in training and technique.

WR = Very, VERY mediocre. We attacked the sideline routes all night, not much in the middle of the field. Pitt's yards came in the middle of the field. Not sure if this is going to be how it is the entire season, but if so, it's going to be a long year.

DB - Slow. Got beat several times. If not for a couple of drops by Pitt WR's, then we would have lost by 21 points.

DL - Thought they were strong most of the night, but got tired in the 4th. No depth it appears.

QB - Pretty good. I don't think Daniels will be as good as Grier was. He's not Geno Smith either. But he's better than what we had last year.

RB - Donaldson Jr. is the RB. Needs to happen quickly.

Special Teams - Surprisingly good. No long returns. Good punting. And a blocked kick.


Sadly, looking at the schedule, it appears as if 5-7 may where we are heading. Which, of course, will lead to more money being spend on a very HORRIBLE contract extension that should have never been made, and search for a new head coach. Brown will not survive this loss against Pitt, unless we win 8+ games this year (before bowl game).

The university should also look in to Lyons job security as well.
 

EERs 3:16

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True, but some times, the HBC needs to reach into his pants and see if he has a pair.....

Oh and don't forget WVU got the ball on a fumble recovery and gave it back two plays later --which turned into a TD for sPitt-- lot of mistakes, some of it can be corrected ....some of it requires a chance in coaching staff..
 
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deedoubleyou

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True, but some times, the HBC needs to reach into his pants and see if he has a pair.....

Oh and don't forget WVU got the ball on a fumble recovery and gave it back two plays later --which turned into a TD for sPitt-- lot of mistakes, some of it can be corrected ....some of it requires a chance in coaching staff..
I dont think Neal Brown has a pair sadly. Lyons either
 
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Butler-eer

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but it did.

WVU should have won with either call, but because much of the same old problems with Neal coached teams are still present it was. And a coach with self awareness would have noticed.

1st. James dropped a catch that a starting WR at this level should have made on the 1st down of the series that eventually lead to the 4th down.

2nd. WVU had offensive trouble against Pitt much of the game. We had the lead only because of the blocked the punt. However we were rolling on the previous 2 possessions and had Pitt on their heels after good defensive stops kept them on the field.

3rd. Pitt was moving the ball against WVU better than the reverse except for the 2 series leading up to this call. WVU benefited from the blocked punt and field position battle much of the game. Pitt was also starting to exploit our defensive backs. It was only our D line that stopped them the prior series.

It all adds up to going for it on 4th and 1. Turn it over and Pitt has good field position, but still has to score a TD. Get the first down and you are in position to chew more of that 6 minute clock and possible go up 2 scores. Easy math.
INT lost the game.
Targeting penalty lost the game.
Need I go on?
 

WVU_Dave

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but it did.

WVU should have won with either call, but because much of the same old problems with Neal coached teams are still present it was. And a coach with self awareness would have noticed.

1st. James dropped a catch that a starting WR at this level should have made on the 1st down of the series that eventually lead to the 4th down.

2nd. WVU had offensive trouble against Pitt much of the game. We had the lead only because of the blocked the punt. However we were rolling on the previous 2 possessions and had Pitt on their heels after good defensive stops kept them on the field.

3rd. Pitt was moving the ball against WVU better than the reverse except for the 2 series leading up to this call. WVU benefited from the blocked punt and field position battle much of the game. Pitt was also starting to exploit our defensive backs. It was only our D line that stopped them the prior series.

It all adds up to going for it on 4th and 1. Turn it over and Pitt has good field position, but still has to score a TD. Get the first down and you are in position to chew more of that 6 minute clock and possible go up 2 scores. Easy math.
 

The Bell Tolls for Thee

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INT lost the game.
Targeting penalty lost the game.
Need I go on?

There were several issues with the game and honestly WVU was lucky to be up 7 at 6 minutes left given how many big plays Pitt left on offense. It should be expected that your defense not give up a 90 yard TD drive. Expecting the offense to answer quickly is somewhat shaky given how inconsistent the passing game was, but catching a wide open pass should be expected. Neither happened and that contributes to my statement that the single call SHOULDN'T have affected the outcome. WVU could've bled more time, kept the momentum, kept the crowd down, and possibly scored by going for it as compared to adding 35-40 yards to the TD drive Pitt was going to have to have by punting. I liked the odds of getting it and risk/rewards analysis of going for it was in favor of rewards.
 

WVUALLEN

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There were several issues with the game and honestly WVU was lucky to be up 7 at 6 minutes left given how many big plays Pitt left on offense. It should be expected that your defense not give up a 90 yard TD drive. Expecting the offense to answer quickly is somewhat shaky given how inconsistent the passing game was, but catching a wide open pass should be expected. Neither happened and that contributes to my statement that the single call SHOULDN'T have affected the outcome. WVU could've bled more time, kept the momentum, kept the crowd down, and possibly scored by going for it as compared to adding 35-40 yards to the TD drive Pitt was going to have to have by punting. I liked the odds of getting it and risk/rewards analysis of going for it was in favor of rewards.
Would have, could have and could have...

Would of made the first down

Could have gotten sacked 3 straight times, could have turned it over without bleeding the clock, could have punted with a 3 and out as Pitt used it's time outs to stop the could

Should have been up 14 and and first down should have won by 21 if you don't turn it over. Should have not had 12 Penalties with several in critical situations. Should have used timeout after sack. Should have ruled a catch at the 1 if you're using the same reasoning as you did the Pitt receiver's catch on game tying drive. Should have caught the ball and added YAC to it.

Would have, could have, should have is always undefeated.

Time for next game. Let's move on.
 
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The Bell Tolls for Thee

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Would have, could have and could have...

Would of made the first down

Could have gotten sacked 3 straight times, could have turned it over without bleeding the clock, could have punted with a 3 and out as Pitt used it's time outs to stop the could

Should have been up 14 and and first down should have won by 21 if you don't turn it over. Should have not had 12 Penalties with several in critical situations. Should have used timeout after sack. Should have ruled a catch at the 1 if you're using the same reasoning as you did the Pitt receiver's catch on game tying drive. Should have caught the ball and added YAC to it.

Would have, could have, should have is always undefeated.

Time for next game. Let's move on.

I do not disagree. Mistakes will happen and the opponents will make great plays despite things being as they should. It is why making the most efficient use of every play and call you have is what adds up to wins.
 

michaelwalkerbr

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Pitt did not beat WVU even though they had the highest score. WVU and a quirk in fate that is so common we call it one of Murphy's Laws beat the Mountaineers. That Murphy's Law of course being, 'Anything that can go wrong will, at the worst possible time'.

Given the totality of the circumstances, I hoped Coach B would go for it and I have heard the distance being about 2 1/2 ft to 4 inches. If it's under 2 yds I believe the risk is the same with the exception of a QB sneak which should be closer. I'll get to my point.

First game for both teams, mistakes in execution on both sides are more than expected. Three plays kept WVU from winning despite all of the others including the damn punt which pinned Pitt inside their own 10 yd line with under 6 minutes to go. The playbook is very limited there and they are a touchdown behind. I would have gone for it because I do not believe Pitt could stop Donaldson from gaining the 1st down and likely more. They still haven't done it. I will post a short video at the end of my rant proving it.

First disaster was James fumble at the WVU 35 yd line in the second qtr giving Pitt a short field for their first offensive TD. 7 Pitt points that should not have happened. When Woods went out we lost McCormick's relief at that DB slot. Unfortunate at the time, but it helped set up disaster #2. That was two plays after 'the punt' when Hammond caught a short pass at the 15, was stopped right there for what should have been 3rd and two with 85 yds to even tie the game.

Instead of making a proper tackle and fighting to keep Hammond in bounds he gave him a 'Carl Joseph' hit that knocked him out out of bounds stopping the clock. But much worse he hit the receiver way too high and that becomes disaster #2. That hit caused an ejection of a starting DB with his backup out injured, putting a freshman in a critical situation in front of the largest crowd to ever see a sporting event in Pittsburgh history. Plus Instead of being at their own 15 with 3rd and 2 they get the ball at the 30 with a first down, full playbook available and a glaring weak spot in the WVU secondary. I would call that hit a disaster. Pitt goes in for a relatively easy score tying the game.

Still with now under 3 minutes to play the Mountaineers take the kickoff and start their march for at a least a winning FG. A Pitt DB with only 1 1/2 tackles on the stat sheet blew another coverage leaving Ford-Wheaton wide open at the WVU 45 yd line with room to run. Daniels pass was right on target at the right time to the top receiver for the game.

Inexplicably the ball hits his hands about upper chest high as he was facing the QB and bounced over his head and perfectly into the unexpecting hands of the same DB that had been beaten again. He's not much of a cover guy against a tall, talented receiver yet but he does have blazing speed. So instead of WVU being in a position to run out the clock as they score either a TD or FG for the win, the DB goes 56 yds virtually untouched for the winning score. Fate and Mr. Murphy takes a nearly certain win from WVU and hands it to Pitt.

WVU still almost tied up at the end except a necessarily low pass to Reese Smith at the 1 yd line with 22 seconds and a timeout to go which appeared to be a heroic grab and was called a catch. Upon review the replay official saw it as the ball hitting the turf as Smith having both hands under it pulled it in to secure it overturned the play. If you think Pitt had dominated the game you haven't checked the stats. Overall pretty even with an edge to WVU as Pitt could not gain 80 yds rushing in 38 tries. Donaldson alone had 125 yds in 7 carries. Watch this, pretty amazing if you haven't seen it. The reason why you go for it near midfield on 4th down. Dance with the one who brought you. Stop the video at the the 18 second mark. after that it's commercial filler.

 
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WVUALLEN

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Alabama 4th and inches on Texas 25 with 17-16 lead. Goes for first down gets their ass stuffed. Saban may just cost Alabama the game.

I guess his balls are shriveled.
 

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