Stew would have won that game by 20...
- Thread starter EERs 3:16
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Stew doesn't always win BCS games.....but when he does, he beats Oklahoma
Fact: Stewart won his only meeting against Maryland 31-17 in a year when the Terps were 9-4.
Who knew that didn't quite match up to the brilliance of Holgorsen losing 37-0 to Maryland in a year when they were 7-6 and lost to Marshall? Go ahead and keep those lies coming, though.
Three words...Kansas, Iowa State
Holgs is 4-1 vs Maryland, without looking at the numbers I'd guess that's a better % than either Nehlen or Rich.
Regarding the Stew vs Dana comparisons, it can be compared like this:
Stew took over a thriving operation and in short time made the product mediocre. Dana took over a mediocre product and has maintained the same mediocrity throughout his tenure.
Regarding the Stew vs Dana comparisons, it can be compared like this:
Stew took over a thriving operation and in short time made the product mediocre. Dana took over a mediocre product and has maintained the same mediocrity throughout his tenure.
I can argue that those losses were a direct result of stews tenure. 50 recruits only 23 made it.
some made it..they just left..one of the shining stars played LB as a true frosh..Branko woulda been a star. several left for injuries..concussions..I give you major credit for realizing that he only had two recruiting classes..
Yeah the Branko busick saga was a bit of a head scratcher I wonder if he is still in jail?
You have no room to talk with your selective statistics and a complete failure to even recognize that the Big 12 is a far superior conference than the Big East especially during RR's tenure.
Ten words: Baylor, TCU, Texas, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Kansas, Iowa State
Holgorsen is 4-1 against Maryland
I can buy that argument pertaining to the Maryland game, but not the other two.
Even with some serious attrition, there is not one reason in the world we shouldn't still have enough talent to avoid getting run out of the building by a Kansas team that had lost 27 straight conference games and blowing a 24-point lead at home to Iowa St. The fact that we even had a 24-point lead in the latter game is proof enough of that.
One of the biggest things I despise about the "defend Holgorsen at all costs" crowd is their outright ignorance of his failures and overblowing of Stewart's--and I absolutely hated the Stewart hire. Everyone loves to bring up the Colorado loss, but the facts are that was a 5-7 Big 12 team who beat 3 teams with winning records that year. There is no universe in which that is a "worse" loss than losing to two 3-9 Big 12 teams who beat 0 teams with winning records.
Always love the mental gymnastics trying to justify how losing to a 5-7 Big 12 team by 3 in OT on the road is "worse" than losing by 12 to a 3-9 Big 12 team on the road or losing to another 3-9 Big 12 team by 8 in 3 OT at home or losing by 26 to a 5-7 Big East team on the road.
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Not to get specific, but I think the Colorado game was when some of us realized we were no longer playing to win, but playing to "not lose." JMO
Are you speaking of that game in its own context or as it pertained to the larger arc of the program's overall direction?
Just curious because I was on the field pregame that night, and I'm interested to see if your thoughts match mine.
What I saw was plenty of enough time on the clock to try and score, but instead, we played to not give Colorado a chance to score. Both at the end of the first half and the end of the game.
At the end of the first half, we had enough time attempt a score or drive for a field goal, but if we were not able to do either, Colorado would have had the ball and might have scored. At least that's what I felt the coaches were thinking?
At the end of the 4th Qtr, it was obvious that we were going to play for OT. After the Colorado game, playing to not lose was the norm.
What were your thoughts?
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Pretty much the same. I was with a pair of CU-affiliated co-workers and we all agreed WVU mismanaged the clock given the direction the game had taken at the time.
By the same token, I find it kind of difficult to characterize this fairly as the beginning of "playing not to lose" for a couple of reasons.
First, we had just been whacked at East Carolina and with all this coming so early in Stewart's tenure combined with the usual September uncertainty about what you have I can almost understand a little hesitation.
Second, if you remember how the Colorado game started with 2 quick Buffalo TDs in the first 7-8 minutes, I recall thinking we were going to get blown out. Once the game turned around and started falling more in our favor over the final 45-50 minutes or so, you can almost see how Stewart talked himself into believing that would continue and that he didn't need to press the issue.
Agreed it was mishandled, but probably not egregiously so in context.
By the same token, I find it kind of difficult to characterize this fairly as the beginning of "playing not to lose" for a couple of reasons.
First, we had just been whacked at East Carolina and with all this coming so early in Stewart's tenure combined with the usual September uncertainty about what you have I can almost understand a little hesitation.
Second, if you remember how the Colorado game started with 2 quick Buffalo TDs in the first 7-8 minutes, I recall thinking we were going to get blown out. Once the game turned around and started falling more in our favor over the final 45-50 minutes or so, you can almost see how Stewart talked himself into believing that would continue and that he didn't need to press the issue.
Agreed it was mishandled, but probably not egregiously so in context.
I prefer to judge a man by his actions. Stewart tried to sabotage WVU's program when he got canned here just as he tried to do to VMI's when he got canned there. Those are the hard cold facts.
Bill Stewart simply died an untimely death. Afterwards the facts about the man went out the window. He was then canonized as "St. Stew" by the opponents of Oliver Luck as a club to bludgeon Luck, and unfortunately much of the fan base bought it.
If Nehlen hadn't given Stew an assistants job after the VMI fiasco, Bill would have been peddling insurance or giving motivational seminars the last fifteen years of his life.
Bill Stewart simply died an untimely death. Afterwards the facts about the man went out the window. He was then canonized as "St. Stew" by the opponents of Oliver Luck as a club to bludgeon Luck, and unfortunately much of the fan base bought it.
If Nehlen hadn't given Stew an assistants job after the VMI fiasco, Bill would have been peddling insurance or giving motivational seminars the last fifteen years of his life.
True, but either way you put it, he got nervous and coached nervous. I think most of us never wanted a man to succed more than we did Bill, but time proved he was in over his head. However, I will always consider him a great mountaineer and person.
The only other thing I would add is I always wondered what role , if any, Doc had in some of the terrible loses? IF you recall, before we beat Oklaholma, there was a large part of the fan base pulling for Doc to be the HC at WVU. History was we beat Oklaholma in probably the best win in WVU history? After the win, Pat White endorsed Stew and you know the rest of the story.
Give us time and if we don't see some improvements in the Holgs era, folks will start expressing thier views. When Stew was hired and supported him 100% until it became painfully obvious the direction the team was headed. I think it's hard to compare one to the other though.
Fact: B12 way more competetive than BigEast was. (Including when RR was coach)
Opinion: At some point, it became obvious that BS was not getting it done and changes were made. I think folks have been more patient with Holgs because we moved to B12 and we're happy to get out of the BE. Holgs has shown signs of greatest, but his weaknesses are starting to become more obvious. I remember a line in the Ray Charles movie (staring Jammi Fox), where the manager told him "Your slip is showing." I think that's where we are with Dana, his slip is showing and only time will tell if he can pull it up? I hope so.
Focusing on the coach's two worst conference loses and ignoring the wins over top 5 and top 10 and top 20 teams seems like a very biased argument. Attempting to make statistical comparison while ignoring the differences between the Big 12 conference and the Big East conference is a far bigger mental gymnastics challenge than justify any conference loss.
Maybe the "defend Holgorsen at all cost" crowd see right through someone using selective statistics and selective facts to selectively bash the coach.
Definitely agree with you on that. Good discussion, AirForceer.
