Staff's silence when Tyrek Cole left the program in Sept...
- Thread starter wvpaper
- Start date
Nothing to see here....3-3 (0-3)......soon to be 3-4 (0-4)......nothing to see........no problems here........offensive genius........
Pooper, you and Hanky make a great pair. At least he excused himself from here to be a thorn in the side of WVU fans on the Herdiot boards.
3 out 3 losses to top 15 schools. Back to back games against #2 and #3. Yet people think we shld be guaranteed wins
If WVU loses more than 1 of the final 5 Big 12 games, then the argument in favor of Dana loses a ton of value. TCU loss is almost a given, and 0-4 start. Even Alabama would have trouble winning against those 4 teams. But losing to Texas Tech, Texas, Kansas, Iowa State and Kansas State would be harder to defend.
I think those 5 games will determine Dana's fate at WVU.
M ighty defense throttled Georgia Southern, 44-0
O utstanding defense obliterated Liberty, 41-17
U nilaterally decimated Maryland, 45-6, on defense and offense
N oxious offense & special teams against Oklahoma, 44-24
T urnovers lose to Oklahoma State, 33-26 in OT despite impressive comeback from 15-point deficit.
A wesome Baylor too much, 62-38.
I nch by TCU
N ip Texas Tech
E scape Texas
E rectile dysfunction Kansas
R oll past Iowa State
S lip past Kansas State
I think those 5 games will determine Dana's fate at WVU.
M ighty defense throttled Georgia Southern, 44-0
O utstanding defense obliterated Liberty, 41-17
U nilaterally decimated Maryland, 45-6, on defense and offense
N oxious offense & special teams against Oklahoma, 44-24
T urnovers lose to Oklahoma State, 33-26 in OT despite impressive comeback from 15-point deficit.
A wesome Baylor too much, 62-38.
I nch by TCU
N ip Texas Tech
E scape Texas
E rectile dysfunction Kansas
R oll past Iowa State
S lip past Kansas State
We have 6 games left. I don't think there is any real question this is make or break time for Holgorsen. People might disagree on the precise W-L we need in these 6 games, but I don't think anyone really thinks he can survive no matter how we finish.
0 or 1 win, and I doubt even his most infatuated fanboys would keep beating the drum.
2 wins and only those fanboys would, but it wouldn't matter, he'd be toast.
3-4 wins is the range where the future is debatable.
5-6 wins and he gets an extension.
0 or 1 win, and I doubt even his most infatuated fanboys would keep beating the drum.
2 wins and only those fanboys would, but it wouldn't matter, he'd be toast.
3-4 wins is the range where the future is debatable.
5-6 wins and he gets an extension.
Shows nothing. You don't "announce" when a player who has never played in a game leaves the program.
Holgorsen is likely to be here until the end of his contract regardless of the record for this season. If he loses all of the remaining games then he will need a big season next year to continue. Now if he wins out and then wins the bowl game, he might even get another extension.
Most of the head coaches in this country are in similar situations so there really isn't much insight in this thread. Win and fans like the coach. Lose and fans question the coach. Although in Holgorsen's situation, losing to 3 Top 15 teams (and likely a 4th) is more understandable. It is not like he losing to teams like the Ohio Bobcats or Western Kentucky Hilltoppers. That would really be bad.
Most of the head coaches in this country are in similar situations so there really isn't much insight in this thread. Win and fans like the coach. Lose and fans question the coach. Although in Holgorsen's situation, losing to 3 Top 15 teams (and likely a 4th) is more understandable. It is not like he losing to teams like the Ohio Bobcats or Western Kentucky Hilltoppers. That would really be bad.
Not a chance if we finish with a losing record. Nada.
People keep talking about the money and it is a lot. But, it worls out to less than $250,000 a month for the 2 year period, and that's how we have to pay it under the contract. We don't have to write him a check for nearly 6 million. The parties might agree to a lump-sum settlement, but in that even, it would be for less than 6 million
As for the current assistants, even if we had to pay them all (which is unlikely we'd probably try to keep some and some might decide to leave on their own) that would only add about another $120,000 a month. Again we don't have to write them check for all the future pay just pay them as we agreed in their contracts, and if lump-sums are negotiated they would be smaller.
But, let's say for discussion. That the 2 year cost is 9 million (rounding up). That's a lot of money. But the other factors are not just how money would you lose those two years but how keeping him would affect the loner term outlook.
Consider season tickets. At roughly $400 per, a loss of 4000 in sales over 2 years equals $3,200,000. Add in lost or reduced MAC contributions of say 2000 people reducing by $500, and you add another 2 million in losses. There would likely be a loss in single game tickets as well, but we won't even factor that in.
What we will factor is the lost revenue if say an average of 4000 fewer people attend games . Over those 2 years we will have 9 home conference games and probably 5-6 non-conf. home games. If it's 14 total games that's 56,000 fewer butts in the seats. If we estimate $20 spending per person per game, that's another $1,120,000.
That's a very conservative estimate of $6.3 million dollars in lost revenue without even considering how keeping an unsuccessful and unpopular coach might affect some big money donors. That's hard to guess beyond, it sure won't help. Being hugely optimistic lets just estimate we don't get any growth.
So, roughly 9 million in extra expenses weighed against the very conservative estimate of approximately $6.3 in lost revenue. That's about $1.35 million dollars a year it would "cost" to go in a new direction if we fail to meet reasonable standards this year under Holgorsen. Is it worth that net differential for the next two years to keep an underperforming coach?
Longer-term one need to consider not everyone who stops coming will merely go on hiatus. Some number will never return and that will affect the program for years to come. And we need not kid ourselves that for everyone who leaves there is a new customer to replace them. We don't have a waiting list now obviously and younger people are proving less inclined to attend than people of my generation. In the best of circumstances we are going to have to work to maintain high attendance as our fanbase ages.
People keep talking about the money and it is a lot. But, it worls out to less than $250,000 a month for the 2 year period, and that's how we have to pay it under the contract. We don't have to write him a check for nearly 6 million. The parties might agree to a lump-sum settlement, but in that even, it would be for less than 6 million
As for the current assistants, even if we had to pay them all (which is unlikely we'd probably try to keep some and some might decide to leave on their own) that would only add about another $120,000 a month. Again we don't have to write them check for all the future pay just pay them as we agreed in their contracts, and if lump-sums are negotiated they would be smaller.
But, let's say for discussion. That the 2 year cost is 9 million (rounding up). That's a lot of money. But the other factors are not just how money would you lose those two years but how keeping him would affect the loner term outlook.
Consider season tickets. At roughly $400 per, a loss of 4000 in sales over 2 years equals $3,200,000. Add in lost or reduced MAC contributions of say 2000 people reducing by $500, and you add another 2 million in losses. There would likely be a loss in single game tickets as well, but we won't even factor that in.
What we will factor is the lost revenue if say an average of 4000 fewer people attend games . Over those 2 years we will have 9 home conference games and probably 5-6 non-conf. home games. If it's 14 total games that's 56,000 fewer butts in the seats. If we estimate $20 spending per person per game, that's another $1,120,000.
That's a very conservative estimate of $6.3 million dollars in lost revenue without even considering how keeping an unsuccessful and unpopular coach might affect some big money donors. That's hard to guess beyond, it sure won't help. Being hugely optimistic lets just estimate we don't get any growth.
So, roughly 9 million in extra expenses weighed against the very conservative estimate of approximately $6.3 in lost revenue. That's about $1.35 million dollars a year it would "cost" to go in a new direction if we fail to meet reasonable standards this year under Holgorsen. Is it worth that net differential for the next two years to keep an underperforming coach?
Longer-term one need to consider not everyone who stops coming will merely go on hiatus. Some number will never return and that will affect the program for years to come. And we need not kid ourselves that for everyone who leaves there is a new customer to replace them. We don't have a waiting list now obviously and younger people are proving less inclined to attend than people of my generation. In the best of circumstances we are going to have to work to maintain high attendance as our fanbase ages.
It's the Illuminati, Paper. Holgorsen is the WV branch president. Who do you think sends those black helicopters and mini-drones over your house? Holgs. Look up and see the real conspiracy!
First, the story was "the recruiting had gotten a lot better". When the facts didn't end up support that myth, it changed to "Rich and Stew had a lot of high ranked recruits that left". What will be next?
Holgorsen will be here until the end of his contract. He still has the rest of this season and the next two years to continue to make WVU competitive in the Big 12. If we start losing all of our conference games then things may change. On the other hand, if he starts winning all of them things will change. Nothing is a given in college football except that WVU will never play Marshall again and for that we can all be thankful.
Sure says a lot huh.
Considering no kids ever get in trouble or get kicked off of football teams.
You said yourself 5 or 6 wins and Dana gets another year. What difference does the Cole situation make?
Considering no kids ever get in trouble or get kicked off of football teams.
You said yourself 5 or 6 wins and Dana gets another year. What difference does the Cole situation make?
We've already started losing all our Big 12 games. That's what 0-3 means. If we finish 2-7 there is no way he isn't fired.
Holgorsen is likely to be here until the end of his contract regardless of the record for this season. If he loses all of the remaining games then he will need a big season next year to continue. Now if he wins out and then wins the bowl game, he might even get another extension.
Most of the head coaches in this country are in similar situations so there really isn't much insight in this thread. Win and fans like the coach. Lose and fans question the coach. Although in Holgorsen's situation, losing to 3 Top 15 teams (and likely a 4th) is more understandable. It is not like he losing to teams like the Ohio Bobcats or Western Kentucky Hilltoppers. That would really be bad.
I'm sick and tired of your "accepting losing" statements (and your Vince Lombardi quote). You know the difference between Holgorsen and Lombardi? Championships at the highest level. Holgorsen won a Big East title, but since you all continue to trash those teams then that doesn't count. Can't have it both ways.
And now that we are in the "big boy" conference, you all are saying "well it's not like we are losing to blah blah" to justify losses. Guys, what happened to being a prideful fan? Sorry that I don't accept 0-3 (maybe 0-4) in this conference. We shouldn't have won them all, but I do expect at least ONE win if not two. That's how you get better.....expecting to WIN not justify the LOSSES!
Really.................$9 Million is not a lot of money if you say it real fast and pay it out at the rate of $250,000 a month over the mega years. The amount becomes trivial. Seriously? Hail, I don't want to hock my children and my grand children's future to get rid of Dana and try for a couple more wins per season!
That was probably Bobby Bowden's biggest downfall. He never beat Penn State and only beat Pitt twice.
Our total athletic dept. Revenue will be in the neighborhood of $170,000,000 over the next 2 years. We're talking at most about 5% of that.
If a typical middle class family had a 5year old clunker that was always breaking down and an annual income of $150,000 a year, it would buy a better car. Especially if it could get one for $15,000 or just $625 a month on a 2 year note. Even if that was too much it could take a 48 month note and cut the payments almost in half. WVU wouldn't need to but it' allowed to use banks too.
And of course you fail to grasp the differnce between gross and net I explained. We are talking more like 2% of gross revenue for an upgtade.
If a typical middle class family had a 5year old clunker that was always breaking down and an annual income of $150,000 a year, it would buy a better car. Especially if it could get one for $15,000 or just $625 a month on a 2 year note. Even if that was too much it could take a 48 month note and cut the payments almost in half. WVU wouldn't need to but it' allowed to use banks too.
And of course you fail to grasp the differnce between gross and net I explained. We are talking more like 2% of gross revenue for an upgtade.
If a tree falls on a low mountain drifter and no one hear it, does it make a sound. Did you ever considered that message board complaining on a free low traffic site might be a waste of time?
Unless the bottom falls out of the program, Dana is here for the next two years and he gives WVU the best chance to be competitive.
Unless the bottom falls out of the program, Dana is here for the next two years and he gives WVU the best chance to be competitive.
What on God's green earth would lead a sentient being to entertain the notion Holgorsen is the best coach we could get?
So Drifter, have you found a replacement yet? What makes you think there is a guarantee that a replacement would do any better?
If anyone still does not understand the utter foolishness of the argument that no action should ever be undertaken without a guaratee it will succeed and how that means no one should ever do anything in an effort to improve, all we can do is hope that person is never entrusted with any responsibilities that could affect our lives.
Holgs brings excitement and entertainment to my living room every time his team takes the field. That's good enough for me. I just hope he doesn't ever start losing to the Lower Tier teams (William and Mary, Georgia Southern, etc.). I would vote to can him if this ever happens. WV doesn't have the money to win in the Big 12. I accept that and the fact that we are playing the Big Boys like Texas and Oklahoma.
I'm telling you look at the stats. Recruiting at WVU is always the same regardless of coach. This staff is bagging mostly two and three star recruits and that has been the case all the way back to Nehlen. Stewart just failed to recruit linemen in general. That has been the one difference over the past 30 years. Every now and then WVU gets a couple four star guys and a five star that ends up being a bust.
I think I know and believe that this is not your actual feelings on Mountaineer football, so I'm going to enjoy the entertainment value of you post and hope you are not losing it completely against lesser posters on the MMB. Sell more pickles, get more money for the war chest.
GeorgiaBoy.......................you are wise beyond your yEERS. I think you know how I really feel with regard to Mountaineer sports. But, as I get older and wiser I have come to realize how sports fans are being scammed by the game that is being played today. Yes, I am talking about the cash game that college sports have become. College sports are now professional sports. The players are young and drink the kool-aid in hopes of cashing in later. The sports program at the major colleges have nothing to do with the campus. The shiny shoes are raking in the cash and laughing all the way to the bank. Hail, the average fan can't even afford a ticket these days! My eyes are wide open. Answer me this: Why would a player come to W Va from Florida or Texas, etc. Most of these kids think West Virginia is part of Virginia.
Are you implying you think we are cheating because we do have players because we do have players from those states?
I am simply saying that the young players have no allegiance to West Virginia. They are representing WV on the football field. I don't call that cheating. I just call it professional sports. Now................what are you implying? Be honest..................are you really a low mountains drifter?
That's an unfair generalization. I personally know some people who grew up out-of-state and came to WVU to play sports and are very loyal to the school and state many years later.
I also know a huge number of people from out-of-state who came to WVU to advance their personal interests in pursuing a wide range of non-sports endeavors. Many of them remain attached to the school and the state too, even though their initial decision to attend may have been based on nothing more than the relatively low cost and proximity to their native homes. Is that a bad thing?
Don't we as West Virginians want to encourage people from everywhere and all walks of life to give us a look and maybe help us as we help them?
Your schtick would be better if it was consistent. When you vary back and forth between absurd caricature seeking to mock and then trying to sound halfway intelligent, it's kind of a mess.
I also know a huge number of people from out-of-state who came to WVU to advance their personal interests in pursuing a wide range of non-sports endeavors. Many of them remain attached to the school and the state too, even though their initial decision to attend may have been based on nothing more than the relatively low cost and proximity to their native homes. Is that a bad thing?
Don't we as West Virginians want to encourage people from everywhere and all walks of life to give us a look and maybe help us as we help them?
Your schtick would be better if it was consistent. When you vary back and forth between absurd caricature seeking to mock and then trying to sound halfway intelligent, it's kind of a mess.
Low Mountain boy..............................you are still a sophomore with less than 150 posts and should not be trying to figure out the scope of my mind until you are bonafide. You may get my drift in a dozen or so years......after you hit around 10,000 posts. Until then................... Warez
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I see you as emblematic of the dagger through the psyche of West Virginians Holgorsen has proved to be.
It makes sense your avatar is someone who couldn't cope and died by his own hand.
We used to be a proud, determined tribe. We identified with warrior leaders. "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" Or, maybe, " I have not yet begun to fight."
Now, we're spouting metaphysical bromides or adopting the poses of panty-waist French philosophers such as there is no reality, only perception. Guys like Descartes are why the French always lose wars. Then you have those reduced to warning against trying because, oh my, we might, sniff, sniff, fail. It's better just to accept we don't deserve to succeed.
Holgorsen might be worse than opiates. Why doesn't Obama do something about him?
It makes sense your avatar is someone who couldn't cope and died by his own hand.
We used to be a proud, determined tribe. We identified with warrior leaders. "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" Or, maybe, " I have not yet begun to fight."
Now, we're spouting metaphysical bromides or adopting the poses of panty-waist French philosophers such as there is no reality, only perception. Guys like Descartes are why the French always lose wars. Then you have those reduced to warning against trying because, oh my, we might, sniff, sniff, fail. It's better just to accept we don't deserve to succeed.
Holgorsen might be worse than opiates. Why doesn't Obama do something about him?
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Some people on this board think we deserve to succeed. We don't deserve anything. Anyone that believes WVU doesn't play the game like everyone else, albeit on a smaller scale is a fool. Obviously the product of low genetic variability.
