Rich Rod Style Offense > Dana Holgorsen Style Offense

WVUALLEN

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We’ll I’m sorry how you feel, but it’s still true nonetheless.
Now even though officially there is no distinction by the NCAA, the FBS is broken down by Power5 and Groupof5, which the G5 is also nowhere near the level of the P5. So there you can give a crap.
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OlegeezEER

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I mean Dana and Rich have the exact same winning percentage throughout their careers (58%), both have exactly 1 BCS bowl win and a losing bowl record...Their careers are pretty similar one is just a bit older.

Bottom line is Rich and has teams haven't been relevant in 15 years. His style of play is no longer unique and he has plenty of "character" concerns.

If we want to run a spread option offense, there's plenty of coaching to choose from rather than dusting off a washed up Rich Rodriguez.

I'd gladly take Rich (or Dana) over Neal, but hopefully we can get a younger coach ready to prove himself rather than someone in the twilight of their career.
For starts Rich and Dana don't have the same winning %. Rich was 60-26 over 7 seasons Dana was 61-41 over 8 season that isn't the same check your math. Rich's 2005 team was composed of his players. The 2011 team was Bill Stewarts players. The Georgia team that Rich beat finished in the top 10. The Clemson team that Holgorsen played finished 23rd and had 4 losses that's a big difference. Kansas is running a very similar offense to what Rich ran. Not one air raid team has ever won a national championship. Mike Leach has been the most successful air raid coach and he's never won a major bowl game. Its time to face reality the spread did more for wvu than this joke Air Raid ever did.

BTW I never said that Rich should be the coach I said someone with his philosophy should.
 
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OlegeezEER

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hopefully we can get a younger coach ready to prove himself rather than someone in the twilight of their career.
With the changes that have happened in the college landscape over the last couple of years wvu will probably have a hard time finding an A lister young up and comer who would want to take this job
 
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ThePunish-EER

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For starts Rich and Dana don't have the same winning %. Rich was 60-26 over 7 seasons Dana was 61-41 over 8 season that isn't the same check your math. Rich's 2005 team was composed of his players. The 2011 team was Bill Stewarts players. The Georgia team that Rich beat finished in the top 10. The Clemson team that Holgorsen played finished 23rd and had 4 losses that's a big difference. Kansas is running a very similar offense to what Rich ran. Not one air raid team has ever won a national championship. Mike Leach has been the most successful air raid coach and he's never won a major bowl game. Its time to face reality the spread did more for wvu than this joke Air Raid ever did.

BTW I never said that Rich should be the coach I said someone with his philosophy should.
Everyone still crying over Rodriguez leaving needs to get over it. It’s been nearly 15 years ago. And people change and most often become wiser as they get older. The idea of Rodriguez returning isn’t a bad idea. We all make mistakes as young people. And truthfully, most people would’ve made the same choice to leave WVU for Michigan. He definitely did it all wrong the way he left, but the WVU AD wasn’t exactly innocent either. An apologetic returning Rodriguez could be the perfect redemption.
 
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Everyone still crying over Rodriguez leaving needs to get over it. It’s been nearly 15 years ago. And people change and most often become wiser as they get older. The idea of Rodriguez returning isn’t a bad idea. We all make mistakes as young people. And truthfully, most people would’ve made the same choice to leave WVU for Michigan. He definitely did it all wrong the way he left, but the WVU AD wasn’t exactly innocent either. An apologetic returning Rodriguez could be the perfect redemption.
Rod who?
 
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OlegeezEER

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Everyone still crying over Rodriguez leaving needs to get over it. It’s been nearly 15 years ago. And people change and most often become wiser as they get older. The idea of Rodriguez returning isn’t a bad idea. We all make mistakes as young people. And truthfully, most people would’ve made the same choice to leave WVU for Michigan. He definitely did it all wrong the way he left, but the WVU AD wasn’t exactly innocent either. An apologetic returning Rodriguez could be the perfect redemption.
I understand people being upset with the way the RR era ended but people need to acknowledge that RR had to deal with a piker in Pastilong. Pastilong viewed the Athletic department as nothing more than a personal ATM machine for him and his cronies. When you have a coach that has taken your program to new heights the last thing you do is put up barriers to try and impede progress. You can't sustain success by a Nickle and dime approach. The worst thing that happened to RR is Oliver Luck came after he left. If Luck was there he would have done anything within his power to help RR out. I remember Mike Carey and Izzo Brown making statements of how much happier it was working under Luck. In terms of Neal Brown I feel sorry for Him. He has to operate in a landscape that no other wvu coach has had to deal with. There is no former precedent that has been set to judge his performance. He is the only coach that has had to deal with a full implementation of the Transfer Portal . He has to deal with richer schools buying recruits and in the case of messidor stealing players with money. I do have concerns with Brown. I don't think he currently has the right offensive philosophy for wvu. He has had many winnable games that slipped away at the last minute. Brown needs to start showing improvement in these areas. Another thing I think gets overlooked with Brown is he took over for a coach that wasn't building a program. Holgorsen in the last couple of seasons was just bringing in Transfers to get by year to year. Holgorsen wasn't building a program at wvu he was slowly running it into the ground. Brown came in and had to pay the piper. I'm not convinced that wvu has the economic means to move on from Brown at this point. If they are able to secure the 20-25 million that would be required to dismiss Brown and bring in a new staff then that raises other questions. If they can come up with the cash then why aren't they using that money now to buy players. If they want to make a change then they also have to consider the amount of interest in the job. If I were an up and comer and wvu approached me I would ask for financial information on the top donors. I would request a meeting with them to discuss what type of financial commitment they are willing to provide in NIL deals. I think the coach's most willing to take this job at this point are guys like Hugh Freeze, Bo Pelina Rodriguez or coach's that have had success at smaller schools over an extended period but never been given the opportunity like Leipold at Kansas. I don't think this job is on the up and comer list at the moment. Every time a discussion comes up about making a coaching change the question people ask is who you gonna get. I think in the current economic environment of college football the better question is who the hell would want this job
 

ThePunish-EER

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I understand people being upset with the way the RR era ended but people need to acknowledge that RR had to deal with a piker in Pastilong. Pastilong viewed the Athletic department as nothing more than a personal ATM machine for him and his cronies. When you have a coach that has taken your program to new heights the last thing you do is put up barriers to try and impede progress. You can't sustain success by a Nickle and dime approach. The worst thing that happened to RR is Oliver Luck came after he left. If Luck was there he would have done anything within his power to help RR out. I remember Mike Carey and Izzo Brown making statements of how much happier it was working under Luck. In terms of Neal Brown I feel sorry for Him. He has to operate in a landscape that no other wvu coach has had to deal with. There is no former precedent that has been set to judge his performance. He is the only coach that has had to deal with a full implementation of the Transfer Portal . He has to deal with richer schools buying recruits and in the case of messidor stealing players with money. I do have concerns with Brown. I don't think he currently has the right offensive philosophy for wvu. He has had many winnable games that slipped away at the last minute. Brown needs to start showing improvement in these areas. Another thing I think gets overlooked with Brown is he took over for a coach that wasn't building a program. Holgorsen in the last couple of seasons was just bringing in Transfers to get by year to year. Holgorsen wasn't building a program at wvu he was slowly running it into the ground. Brown came in and had to pay the piper. I'm not convinced that wvu has the economic means to move on from Brown at this point. If they are able to secure the 20-25 million that would be required to dismiss Brown and bring in a new staff then that raises other questions. If they can come up with the cash then why aren't they using that money now to buy players. If they want to make a change then they also have to consider the amount of interest in the job. If I were an up and comer and wvu approached me I would ask for financial information on the top donors. I would request a meeting with them to discuss what type of financial commitment they are willing to provide in NIL deals. I think the coach's most willing to take this job at this point are guys like Hugh Freeze, Bo Pelina Rodriguez or coach's that have had success at smaller schools over an extended period but never been given the opportunity like Leipold at Kansas. I don't think this job is on the up and comer list at the moment. Every time a discussion comes up about making a coaching change the question people ask is who you gonna get. I think in the current economic environment of college football the better question is who the hell would want this job
Agree with everything except “who the hell would want this job?” I think a lot of up and comers. P5 conference, expectations of 8-9 wins (not asking a lot in this regard), geographically in a prime area between major fertile recruiting grounds in OH, PA, Maryland, VA, NJ., great tradition and fan base. Rodriguez proved WVU has enormous potential and he only gave us a short period and glimpse of the possibilities. Since he left, we’ve just not found the right coaching fit here. Loved Bill Stewart as the man, but he wasn’t a long term fit. He served his purpose and kept the program afloat with great recruiting. Dana, no matter what Buckaineer says, is a walking disaster as HC. Glad he’s gone. Neal Brown had too many unfortunate events that has derailed him IMO. Losing his DC was huge and not many on here acknowledge that. And then the NIL and transfer portal came the following year along with COVID. Just an all around bad break. Brown is better than he’s given credit for.
 

JoePaEer

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How many ranked teams that finished the year in the top 25 did Holgorsen beat with a team that he recruited? Where is Holgorsen coaching now? That should tell you what you need to know. The Bulk of his best wins came early in his tenure with Bill Stewarts players.

RR offense > Dana offense not even close
Notice all the qualifiers in there to discount wins and his record?

He!! given what we have been seeing since Dana left I will take any wins against anybody.

If you think Dana's record wasn't good enough, then by that standard Neal has been an abysmal failure.
 

OlegeezEER

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Notice all the qualifiers in there to discount wins and his record?

He!! given what we have been seeing since Dana left I will take any wins against anybody.

If you think Dana's record wasn't good enough, then by that standard Neal has been an abysmal failure.
I have many concerns about Brown and I don't think his philosophy is ideal for wvu but in his defense he has had to try and build a program under conditions that no other coach has had to deal with. If Nehlen, RR had to operate under this landscape I have doubts that 88,93 05-07 even happens. The main point of this thread is to point out that wvu has had very little success since going away from the RR philosophy of Running QB's zone reads and an innovative rushing attack. These principles have allowed K State to win 3 out of 4 from Oklahoma its allowed Kansas to revitalize their program and its what gave us that magical run from 2005-2007. Brown brings in Harrel and its helped the offense but were still not winning games. We saw during the Holgorsen years that this offense rarely wins big games. The question is why go back to it. Its never won a national championship. If wvu is to maximize its potential then it better get back to doing what has worked here. We have enough data points to see the air raid doesn't produce the desired results at wvu. For clarification I am not saying bring in RR the man himself but get someone with his philosophy.
 
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OlegeezEER

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Agree with everything except “who the hell would want this job?” I think a lot of up and comers. P5 conference, expectations of 8-9 wins (not asking a lot in this regard), geographically in a prime area between major fertile recruiting grounds in OH, PA, Maryland, VA, NJ., great tradition and fan base. Rodriguez proved WVU has enormous potential and he only gave us a short period and glimpse of the possibilities. Since he left, we’ve just not found the right coaching fit here. Loved Bill Stewart as the man, but he wasn’t a long term fit. He served his purpose and kept the program afloat with great recruiting. Dana, no matter what Buckaineer says, is a walking disaster as HC. Glad he’s gone. Neal Brown had too many unfortunate events that has derailed him IMO. Losing his DC was huge and not many on here acknowledge that. And then the NIL and transfer portal came the following year along with COVID. Just an all around bad break. Brown is better than he’s given credit for.
If and when the next coaching change is made the number one criteria in my mind has to be the philosophy. I see folks throw around names on this and other forums. Some of the names aren't that bad but in my opinion some don't have the right philosophy. K State and Kansas are smart they hired guys who can work within the talent limitations they have to deal with. I am not a fan of firing coach's mid season unless you're looking at someone on the current staff which Wisconsin currently is. I don't believe this would make our job any more appealing especially since its not the easiest place to win in the first place. If Brown can't right the ship I think wvu will look for someone a little more seasoned like Kansas did. We tried a career assistant in Stewart bad idea. We tried and up and comer assistant which wasn't a bad idea just didn't work out. Currently we have a coach who had 4 years at the G5 level and it hasn't worked out to date. If this fails I think we look for a more seasoned guy maybe someone with some baggage but has a record of getting it done somewhere along the line.
 

ThePunish-EER

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If and when the next coaching change is made the number one criteria in my mind has to be the philosophy. I see folks throw around names on this and other forums. Some of the names aren't that bad but in my opinion some don't have the right philosophy. K State and Kansas are smart they hired guys who can work within the talent limitations they have to deal with. I am not a fan of firing coach's mid season unless you're looking at someone on the current staff which Wisconsin currently is. I don't believe this would make our job any more appealing especially since its not the easiest place to win in the first place. If Brown can't right the ship I think wvu will look for someone a little more seasoned like Kansas did. We tried a career assistant in Stewart bad idea. We tried and up and comer assistant which wasn't a bad idea just didn't work out. Currently we have a coach who had 4 years at the G5 level and it hasn't worked out to date. If this fails I think we look for a more seasoned guy maybe someone with some baggage but has a record of getting it done somewhere along the line.
I agree. I think the WVU AD also needs to figure out the long term goal of the program since the NIL and transfer portal came about. If the goal is still to compete at the highest level and aim for a NC, then the boosters had better be willing to pony up the cash. I say get the best coach available. Whether that’s an established HC or up and comer, it doesn’t matter. WVU will have to be willing to act like a big boy and open the wallet.
 

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I agree. I think the WVU AD also needs to figure out the long term goal of the program since the NIL and transfer portal came about. If the goal is still to compete at the highest level and aim for a NC, then the boosters had better be willing to pony up the cash. I say get the best coach available. Whether that’s an established HC or up and comer, it doesn’t matter. WVU will have to be willing to act like a big boy and open the wallet.
They opened the wallet in Neal's 2nd year and that's why they're stuck in the process of a large buyout.
 

steeleer

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Really? The talent level on this team has it ticketed for the Big 12’s basement. He has addressed nothing because he has no clue how to fix this dog turd he’s created.
This team is talent without coaching or guts. Put Leipold here and we win every game this year. We lost at Texas before we left the bus.
 

WVUALLEN

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This team is talent without coaching or guts. Put Leipold here and we win every game this year. We lost at Texas before we left the bus.
I disagree with your thoughts on this. No coach would win all games with the WVU defense. WVU does not have a QB that could run the Leipold offense. Kansas might make a bowl but they will not go unbeaten or win the conference. We lost to Texas before we boarded the plane to leave.
 
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ThePunish-EER

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This team is talent without coaching or guts. Put Leipold here and we win every game this year. We lost at Texas before we left the bus.
I disagree. You’re overvaluing our players. We have a few pieces. JT Daniels is legit and a few others like Stills, Ford Wheaton. Overall, the team is playing up to its overall talent IMO. I’m more disappointed in our development of these recruits.
 

OlegeezEER

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I disagree. You’re overvaluing our players. We have a few pieces. JT Daniels is legit and a few others like Stills, Ford Wheaton. Overall, the team is playing up to its overall talent IMO. I’m more disappointed in our development of these recruits.
I think the talent we have at RB is the only area where its above average as a unit. JT Daniels is good but he's a pocket passer he can't run an unconventional offense. The O line is average. The WR's have size but they drop the ball too many times. If they would have come up with some of the passes they dropped in the 1st half against Texas maybe the narrative after the game would have been different. There are areas on the D line that could be argued are above average but the secondary is god awful. I had a bad feeling about the secondary coming into the season the depth chart was awfully thin. All I heard was how these guys were more athletic and had more length but they were very Green. They weren't going to step in right off the bat and be productive. I would say our team is very average especially when you compare it against the competition it will face.
 
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WVUALLEN

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I think the talent we have at RB is the only area where its above average as a unit. JT Daniels is good but he's a pocket passer he can't run an unconventional offense. The O line is average. The WR's have size but they drop the ball too many times. If they would have come up with some of the passes they dropped in the 1st half against Texas maybe the narrative after the game would have been different. There are areas on the D line that could be argued are above average but the secondary is god awful. I had a bad feeling about the secondary coming into the season the depth chart was awfully thin. All I heard was how these guys were more athletic and had more length but they were very Green. They weren't going to step in right off the bat and be productive. I would say our team is very average especially when you compare it against the competition it will face.
Linebackers are not that good either.
 

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Rich Rod offense at WVU was Pat White and Steve Slaton and a few other quality players.

He should have allowed White to pass more.
 

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I have many concerns about Brown and I don't think his philosophy is ideal for wvu but in his defense he has had to try and build a program under conditions that no other coach has had to deal with. If Nehlen, RR had to operate under this landscape I have doubts that 88,93 05-07 even happens. The main point of this thread is to point out that wvu has had very little success since going away from the RR philosophy of Running QB's zone reads and an innovative rushing attack. These principles have allowed K State to win 3 out of 4 from Oklahoma its allowed Kansas to revitalize their program and its what gave us that magical run from 2005-2007. Brown brings in Harrel and its helped the offense but were still not winning games. We saw during the Holgorsen years that this offense rarely wins big games. The question is why go back to it. Its never won a national championship. If wvu is to maximize its potential then it better get back to doing what has worked here. We have enough data points to see the air raid doesn't produce the desired results at wvu. For clarification I am not saying bring in RR the man himself but get someone with his philosophy.
Coaches all over the country had to deal with COVID so no idea what you are excusing.

COVID or no COVID Brown has been the same loser for WVU as year one.

When there is evidence in the same league of coaches stepping in and immediately producing winning results— TCU, ISU, Kansas State, Kansas then Browns failure after taking over a program that was winning over 8 games per year for five years running is pretty lame.
 

WVUALLEN

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Can't wait to your excuse for TCU, ISU, Kansas State and Kansas when losses begin.

ISU currently on a 2 game losing streak and is 0-2 in the conference their coach is not new. He's been there 7 years. Campbell was 3-9 his first year. Take away his covid season like you do Brown and Campbell is 23-24 in conference and 34-33 overall.

Chris Klieman of KSU 24-17 (15-14) Technically no longer new as he is in his 4th season
Kansas and TCU only 2 with good starts with new coaches. Their final W/L has yet to be determined.

Nobody is disputing Brown as a clown.
 
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ThePunish-EER

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Rich Rod offense at WVU was Pat White and Steve Slaton and a few other quality players.

He should have allowed White to pass more.
moe, Rod’s teams were more than just White and Slaton lol. And no, Pat white should not have passed more. Stew tried that with Pat and it was a failure. Pat was special because he came at the right time. Rodriguez offense was the perfect fit for Pat’s abilities. Pat could not have started at QB in any other offense.
 

OlegeezEER

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Coaches all over the country had to deal with COVID so no idea what you are excusing.

COVID or no COVID Brown has been the same loser for WVU as year one.

When there is evidence in the same league of coaches stepping in and immediately producing winning results— TCU, ISU, Kansas State, Kansas then Browns failure after taking over a program that was winning over 8 games per year for five years running is pretty lame.
Each team was not equally affected by covid the coach's that were in the reloading phase had a much easier time than those in the rebuilding phase. Not every coach inherits the same situation. Your savior wasn't building anything he was just bringing in transfers to try and get by year to year. That is not a sustainable strategy. He skipped town because he knew the bottom was about to fall out. The only ones who can't figure that out are mental midgets.
 
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steeleer

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I disagree with your thoughts on this. No coach would win all games with the WVU defense. WVU does not have a QB that could run the Leipold offense. Kansas might make a bowl but they will not go unbeaten or win the conference. We lost to Texas before we boarded the plane to leave.
Undefeated? No. But this team has enough talent to win all the games they played so far.

Kansas' backup did pretty well Saturday.
 

OlegeezEER

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Their backup is a pocket passer and lit up TCU. Great coaches coach.
They didn't win the game with a pocket passer, and I doubt if that guy was the starter, they would be 5-0. You need to have an elite runner for that system to run at optimal efficiency
 

WVUALLEN

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They didn't win the game with a pocket passer, and I doubt if that guy was the starter, they would be 5-0. You need to have an elite runner for that system to run at optimal efficiency
Bean can also run.

Threw for 262 yards on 16-of-24 passing with four TDs … Rushed the ball for 34 yards on seven carries.

Daniels had also carried the ball seven times for a net of six yards.
 

steeleer

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Bean can also run.

Threw for 262 yards on 16-of-24 passing with four TDs … Rushed the ball for 34 yards on seven carries.

Daniels had also carried the ball seven times for a net of six yards.
He can run, but he is a runner like Geno Smith was a runner at WVU. He is primarily a passer.
 

steeleer

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They didn't win the game with a pocket passer, and I doubt if that guy was the starter, they would be 5-0. You need to have an elite runner for that system to run at optimal efficiency
I got an idea. Look at what he actually did in that game before knee jerking a stupid hot take. The guy I saw (working from an actual fund of knowledge) would have maybe lost one of those games before TCU....still a massive upgrade from last year. Feel free to keep moving those goal posts granny.