Re: Obama

[DvlDog4WVU]

I was having a conversation over dinner last night with a friend of mine re: Obama. I am truly conflicted on the man and his administration.

Point 1: He is not playing typical DC politics. He has an agenda and he has for the most part stuck with it. He has thumbed his nose at the establishment of both sides and done what he feels is best for the country. I have respect for him in that regard. However, what he feels is right is almost opposite of what my views are and I very much dislike his decisions.

Point 2: He has forever created the playbook for a President. Get whatever something major on your agenda passed, doesn't matter if it's good/bad/or legal. Get it into action. Our political system is setup that once something takes hold, it's almost impossible to put the cork back in the bottle. They will spend a year or two battling it out in committee and by that time, something is in place and at best it will be tweaked to massage the egos of both sides. I respect him for having the balls to go against what majority of Americans want for his own personal beliefs. Again, I'm in disagreement with what he feels is right.

Point 3: Foreign policy is zero and shows his lack of experience. This is where I feel like you truly do have to play the politics game as the countries adversaries play by a set of rules that have life spans of half century or longer. He looks short term. Our counterparts understand that they'll only have to deal with an individual at most for 8 years. They can take inches where they can get them. This lends to my issues with his initiatives with Iran. They are playing the long game and he is playing the next year and a half. Very dangerous for our country and its allies in my opinion.

I think it boils down to me respecting him for his willingness to create lasting change domestically refardless of the fact that vehemently disagree with him. Internationally I think he is a joke and I neither agree or respect him.
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[bornaneer]

And best of all,, he picked Buffalo, what a loser**

wvu

 

[Wolf J. Flywheel]

You know the global war we are NOT going to have per many on here?

Well, Obama is actually igniting it ..... not preventing it.

However, it's not his actions (or inaction) in Iran that is going to cause it. It's our antics with a desperate Putin who has absolutely nothing to lose.

I think most sane people understand we are ratcheting up for something that is .... at the very least .... going to be bigger than any conflict since the signatures were inked to end WWII. We're going to be able to fit Vietnam inside of it many times over.

 

[mule_eer]

All reasonable points and we'll stated. With respect to the Iran issue, what is going to happen with their nuke program if we don't get a deal? I'm not trying to use hyperbole and say that the only other path is war, but it seems that the alternative is to let them go largely unchecked without some sort of deal.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Let Israel continue to police Iran's nuke program by continuing to show the harmful repercussions of seeking the bomb after declaring to annihilate someone with it. We can continue to trumpet the evils of Iran without having a major stake in the game. A deal actually shortens the timeline to the inevitable.

You act like it will be something Iran abides by. That's not reality. If what has been reported is accurate it will basically be Iraq of the 90s all over again. Couple of things here, when they violate the deal, and they most certainly will, then what? Do we enforce it militarily? The counter to not enforcing is even more reassurance that we're a paper tiger and they can continue to thumb their nose at us and push forward at a faster pace. Because you know, the "red line thing" and all. If we do enforce it then we're talking military action looking for WMDs. Sound familiar?

This is a zero win scenario for the US. It either leads to blood or us being made to look like a bitch, kind of like Assad and Putin made him look when he decided not to back up his shit talking re: The Red Line and the Ukraine.

Lastly, you can't look at this stuff in a vacuum. The deal is only a small piece to the puzzle. Once you start seeing the bigger picture, understand your enemies motives, and apply some long range thinking you see how poorly Obama is playing the game of Risk.

You do realize that once Iran's radical clerics have access to the bomb, the game is over. I don't mean they lose it, but it cements radical Islam as a permanent fixture and one that will have to be accepted and not cast aside as a bunch of crazy's. The bomb isn't about military power. It's the secret handshake to the big kids table.
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[mule_eer]

I'm not sure this deal is a fast track because we don't really know the particulars yet. It may fall apart on its own anyway. I don't think a deal makes us the police any more quickly than no deal, and we would at least have inspections if a deal goes through. Where I do agree with Netanyahu is that the deal should have caveats based on what Iran is doing in the neighboring countries though.

 

[mneilmont]

neighboring = controlled or all Arab?

 

[Round Hillbilly]

do you think a little thing like the iranians telling obama and his mushmouth sec of state to go fvck themselves is something thats going to keep this deal from happening? this deal will happen on some level so obama can have his "win" regarding the iranians, and it will suck ass just like his healthcare law. the only thing that overshadows his failure of a healthcare law is the absolute joke that our foreign relations have become...but what else would you expect from amateur hour with obama, clinton, and now kerry in control. putin wishes obama had an infinite number of terms, the ayatolla's don't fear him, terrorists in general don't fear him, our allies can't stand him, bibi is in his head and affecting how obama handles foreign policy. if it wasn't so sad it would be funny.