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Player-led college teams are a woke fantasy

D

deedoubleyou

All-Conference
Sep 9, 2018
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Neal Brown has been so confident in this player-led team philosophy, he even said it would turn us into champions. Sadly, with this philosophy we are further sinking into oblivion and the product on the field is worse than ever. So I decided to look into this player-led college team fantasy. It appears that this philosophy was taken from some soccer teams around the globe, but I could be wrong. But, one thing that is very obvious is the college coaches touting this philosophy are failing their teams and losing big time.

For instance, here is a headline from 2019

How CSU football tackled leadership, accountability issues in the offseason​

www.coloradoan.com

How CSU football tackled leadership, accountability issues in the offseason

Colorado State football coach Mike Bobo implemented an offseason program that he and his players believe will have a significant impact this fall.
www.coloradoan.com

So Mike Bobo thought it was brilliant to transition to a player-led team in 2019. The result? A terrible, embarrassing season which cost him his job.

Example 2.

Mel Tucker describes Michigan State's transition to a player-led team | SportsCenter​

So Mel Tucker, after posting a 11-2 record in 2021, decided his team needed more "accountability" so he drank the woke koolaid and made the announcement before this season, that MSU was transitioning into a player-led team. He describes the process early in the video. This video is from 3 months ago, when expectations for MSU were very high.


The result? MSU went from an 11-2 team to a 5-5 season, and even had a huge fight break out in the game against Michigan, which spawned an investigation culminating into 4 MSU players being benched indefinitely, and two Michigan players getting hurt.

Does Nick Saban let kids run his team? Kirby Smart? I highly doubt it. These kids are barely men yet despite their age. Perhaps this player-led fantasy could work out more in the NFL, but its failing the colleges who are trying to use it. Kids coming out of high school these days are more immature than ever. To think these kids are ready to lead and be accountable without the direction of a strong leader in a coach is just another leftist woke fantasy.

Neal Brown has infected this program with woke, and I cannot stand him for it. I wish he would resign today.
 
deedoubleyou said:
Neal Brown has been so confident in this player-led team philosophy, he even said it would turn us into champions. Sadly, with this philosophy we are further sinking into oblivion and the product on the field is worse than ever. So I decided to look into this player-led college team fantasy. It appears that this philosophy was taken from some soccer teams around the globe, but I could be wrong. But, one thing that is very obvious is the college coaches touting this philosophy are failing their teams and losing big time.

For instance, here is a headline from 2019

How CSU football tackled leadership, accountability issues in the offseason​

www.coloradoan.com

How CSU football tackled leadership, accountability issues in the offseason

Colorado State football coach Mike Bobo implemented an offseason program that he and his players believe will have a significant impact this fall.
www.coloradoan.com

So Mike Bobo thought it was brilliant to transition to a player-led team in 2019. The result? A terrible, embarrassing season which cost him his job.

Example 2.

Mel Tucker describes Michigan State's transition to a player-led team | SportsCenter​

So Mel Tucker, after posting a 11-2 record in 2021, decided his team needed more "accountability" so he drank the woke koolaid and made the announcement before this season, that MSU was transitioning into a player-led team. He describes the process early in the video.
View embedded media


The result? MSU went from an 11-2 team to a 5-5 season, and even had a huge fight break out in the game against Michigan, which spawned an investigation culminating into 4 MSU players being benched indefinitely, and two Michigan players getting hurt.

Does Nick Saban let kids run his team? Kirby Smart? I highly doubt it. These kids are barely men yet despite their age. Perhaps this player-led fantasy could work out more in the NFL, but its failing the colleges who are trying to use it. Kids coming out of high school these days are more immature than ever. To think these kids are ready to lead and be accountable without the direction of a strong leader in a coach is just another leftist woke fantasy.

Neal Brown has infected this program with woke, and I cannot stand him for it. I wish he would resign today.
Click to expand...
Rich Rod let Pat White be a player that led the team.
 
WVUALLEN said:
Rich Rod let Pat White be a player that led the team.
Click to expand...
Not in the way these coaches are doing it. Rich Rod was an alpha. On his team, he is in charge, period. Im not taking up for Rich Rod because I'm pretty indifferent about him, but make no mistake, he aint woke or even close.
 
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Your definition of player led is very different than mine.
 
Its not my definition, its theirs. Read up on it. I believe in natural leaders, like Pat White and a good coach can spot them and give them more platform to be a natural leader. But that's not how these coaches are doing it.
 
Coaches as slave master over players making nothing while the coach gets millionsand the players have no rights is a racist story and that story has ended.

If you dont like that then you were about domination of players and not the sport anyway.
 
Buckaineer said:
Coaches as slave master over players making nothing while the coach gets millionsand the players have no rights is a racist story and that story has ended.

If you dont like that then you were about domination of players and not the sport anyway.
Click to expand...
So you support Brown and his coaching style? You need to keep to your script.
 
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I don't give a shit what a player is involved in and leading off the field. That's their politics and I don't agree with those politics. Nothing wrong with players believing in something and trying to be a leader in what they believe. As long as it's all legal.

On the field is completely different than off field. You're trying to mix the two and it's not right.
 
Buckaineer said:
Coaches as slave master over players making nothing while the coach gets millionsand the players have no rights is a racist story and that story has ended.

If you dont like that then you were about domination of players and not the sport anyway.
Click to expand...
Slave masters lol? Ok drama queen. This kids are privileged and lucky to be getting a free ride in college, a shot at the pro's and a lifetime of amazing memories playing Div 1 football.
 
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WVUALLEN said:
I don't give a shit what a player is involved in and leading off the field. That's their politics and I don't agree with those politics. Nothing wrong with players believing in something and trying to be a leader in what they believe. As long as it's all legal.

On the field is completely different than off field. You're trying to mix the two and it's not right.
Click to expand...
I always appreciate when players step up and lead, but I agree on the field is way different. They are creating an entire system based on this player-led philosophy, and it doesnt seem to be working out the way they are doing it. Sadly for us, Neal Brown is one of them.
 
deedoubleyou said:
I always appreciate when players step up and lead, but I agree on the field is way different. They are creating an entire system based on this player-led philosophy, and it doesnt seem to be working out the way they are doing it. Sadly for us, Neal Brown is one of them.
Click to expand...
There has always been player led philosophy on the field. Ever hear of Captain of the team, defensive captain, offensive captain, special teams captain? Those are leaders on the field and on the team. To me the QB needs to be the leader of the team.
 
WVUALLEN said:
There has always been player led philosophy on the field. Ever hear of Captain of the team, defensive captain, offensive captain, special teams captain? Those are leaders on the field and on the team. To me the QB needs to be the leader of the team.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know that. However that isnt how they are doing it. What you are talking about is how football should be and still is for most really good teams, but the new player-led philosophy is not that, at all.
 
deedoubleyou said:
Yeah, I know that. However that isnt how they are doing it. What you are talking about is how football should be and still is for most really good teams, but the new player-led philosophy is not that, at all.
Click to expand...
Apparently I'm not seeing what you're talking about. So we will just have to agree to disagree.
 
WVUALLEN said:
Apparently I'm not seeing what you're talking about. So we will just have to agree to disagree.
Click to expand...
Ya dont say? If you want to understand what I'm talking about you actually have to read the article lol. It breaks down what CSU's failed coach tried to do, but it backfired and he got fired at the end of the season.

“We need to be a player-led football team instead of a coach-led football team,” he said at the Mountain West football media days in suburban Las Vegas. “And I look back and reflect, have I put those players in position to have an opportunity to lead. But besides talking to them, what have I done to give them an opportunity to lead?”

About the leaders: CSU tasked these 10 players with the program's turnaround

Bobo, now entering his fifth season at CSU, hopes the accountability program he put in place in the offseason will help develop the leadership his team was lacking.

Ten accountability leaders, one from each position group, were selected by the coaching staff, and each of the leaders drafted players for his team.

Points were awarded for significant achievements during offseason workouts, including weekly awards for academic and weight-lifting standouts, along with the player who best embodied the program’s EDGE — effort, discipline, gratitude and excuse-free — motto.

Points were deducted whenever a player missed class, an appointment with an instructor, professor or academic adviser or showed up late for conditioning drills, team meetings or practices.

Additional points could be earned through extra film study or work in the weight room and community service activities.

“There are a lot of different things that can bring your points up or down, so it keeps everybody accountable,” said junior Joe DeLine, a backup punter and team leader. “If you’re late or miss anything, you lose a bunch of points. If you make a good play or do extra work or go help with community service, you get points.

“I’m constantly texting all my guys trying to find community service opportunities that we can all go to together.”

Junior fullback Adam Prentice and the members of his team volunteered regularly at the Boys and Girls Club of Larimer County, where they played various sports with the youths there, read to children at local elementary schools and helped organize a Night to Shine prom through the Tim Tebow Foundation for people ages 14 and older with special needs.

Those extra points helped his team dominate the competition throughout the spring and summer, teammates said.

“I honestly have no idea how he gets them; his team’s got a lot of points,” said fellow team leader Barry Wesley, a sophomore offensive lineman. “He sneezes, and it’s like 20 points.”

The team with the most points at the end of each week during the spring and every other week or so over the summer received extra swag from the team’s Under Armour collection, like short-sleeve hoodie T-shirts or special pullovers or hats, players said. Players who committed serious infractions that cost their team points, like skipping class, were singled out for scrutiny by the entire team at those meetings.


MSU and Nebraska have recently tried a similar approach, it failed them both badly. Some kind of brownie point scale that is just getting kids to think about who gets the most points rather than being a good football team and winning games. But hey, they can make their backup punter a team leader because that makes sense right? Because a star RB with a chance for the Pro's wants to answer to the backup punter. Yah. Sounds like a great plan
 
Last edited:
deedoubleyou said:
Ya dont say? If you want to understand what I'm talking about you actually have to read the article lol. It breaks down what CSU's failed coach tried to do, but it backfired and he got fired at the end of the season.

“We need to be a player-led football team instead of a coach-led football team,” he said at the Mountain West football media days in suburban Las Vegas. “And I look back and reflect, have I put those players in position to have an opportunity to lead. But besides talking to them, what have I done to give them an opportunity to lead?”

About the leaders: CSU tasked these 10 players with the program's turnaround

Bobo, now entering his fifth season at CSU, hopes the accountability program he put in place in the offseason will help develop the leadership his team was lacking.

Ten accountability leaders, one from each position group, were selected by the coaching staff, and each of the leaders drafted players for his team.

Points were awarded for significant achievements during offseason workouts, including weekly awards for academic and weight-lifting standouts, along with the player who best embodied the program’s EDGE — effort, discipline, gratitude and excuse-free — motto.

Points were deducted whenever a player missed class, an appointment with an instructor, professor or academic adviser or showed up late for conditioning drills, team meetings or practices.

Additional points could be earned through extra film study or work in the weight room and community service activities.

“There are a lot of different things that can bring your points up or down, so it keeps everybody accountable,” said junior Joe DeLine, a backup punter and team leader. “If you’re late or miss anything, you lose a bunch of points. If you make a good play or do extra work or go help with community service, you get points.

“I’m constantly texting all my guys trying to find community service opportunities that we can all go to together.”

Junior fullback Adam Prentice and the members of his team volunteered regularly at the Boys and Girls Club of Larimer County, where they played various sports with the youths there, read to children at local elementary schools and helped organize a Night to Shine prom through the Tim Tebow Foundation for people ages 14 and older with special needs.

Those extra points helped his team dominate the competition throughout the spring and summer, teammates said.

“I honestly have no idea how he gets them; his team’s got a lot of points,” said fellow team leader Barry Wesley, a sophomore offensive lineman. “He sneezes, and it’s like 20 points.”

The team with the most points at the end of each week during the spring and every other week or so over the summer received extra swag from the team’s Under Armour collection, like short-sleeve hoodie T-shirts or special pullovers or hats, players said. Players who committed serious infractions that cost their team points, like skipping class, were singled out for scrutiny by the entire team at those meetings.


MSU and Nebraska have recently tried a similar approach, it failed them both badly. Some kind of brownie point scale that is just getting kids to think about who gets the most points rather than being a good football team and winning games.
Click to expand...
So your talking about the little parties and the competitions and cookouts thrown during the summer to build relationships for the football team and coaches. It's apparent that this only works at lower levels because he was a winner at Troy.

This has nothing to do with wokism.
 
WVUALLEN said:
So your talking about the little parties and the competitions and cookouts thrown during the summer to build relationships for the football team and coaches. It's apparent that this only works at lower levels because he was a winner at Troy.

This has nothing to do with wokism.
Click to expand...
This is way above your pay grade apparently....
 
deedoubleyou said:
Slave masters lol? Ok drama queen. This kids are privileged and lucky to be getting a free ride in college, a shot at the pro's and a lifetime of amazing memories playing Div 1 football.
Click to expand...
No they provide a quality service that enriches pretty much everyone else at their expense. They are being thought of and treated like cattle and its obviously what racists like yourself think of them.

But they are human beings and the days of ordering around their every thought and move to fit someones narcissistic view of their world is over. There is a reason its called a team— its not a my way or the highway bs anymore.
 
"woke" was so 2021, you're a few years behind. in the real old days, we've call that letting the inmates run the asylum. of course, that term is not enough of a political barb to blend into a sports message board I guess
 
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WVUALLEN said:
So your talking about the little parties and the competitions and cookouts thrown during the summer to build relationships for the football team and coaches. It's apparent that this only works at lower levels because he was a winner at Troy.

This has nothing to do with wokism.
Click to expand...

Woke or not, I think there is a difference between having leaders on the team like Pat or Grant and this new concept of a "player led" team. The former is more like having a definitive dictator (coach) that delegates to trusted underlings (team captains) but is still in full control at all times. "Player led" is like having a king and parliament where the king actually cedes some authorities to the parliament while still keeping the majority of authority.
 
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The Bell Tolls for Thee said:
Woke or not, I think there is a difference between having leaders on the team like Pat or Grant and this new concept of a "player led" team. The former is more like having a definitive dictator (coach) that delegates to trusted underlings (team captains) but is still in full control at all times. "Player led" is like having a king and parliament where the king actually cedes some authorities to the parliament while still keeping the majority of authority.
Click to expand...

There is a big difference in this new player-led team thing. These coaches are apparently just picking random players to be team leaders. When I read that a backup punter is one of the chosen team leaders, it stinks of woke, big time. By choosing a backup punter to be a leader really shows that the coach is more interested in inclusion than winning. Let the best players and natural leaders lead. The one who actually earn it through hard work and good play. Not some chosen group of players hand picked by a coach who has the woke inclusion handbook being shoved down his throat by the diversity committee. This new movement of player-led teams is just more of the new woke garbage infecting sports. The results speak for itself.
 
Rootmaster said:
Player led teams are teams that pursue non team values. It is a woke theory for losers, race baiters, and assholes who never suited up. If you fit that category Cape Boy then that explains a lot.
Click to expand...

Exactly. You nailed exactly what they are doing pursuing non team values in the name of woke and inclusion. So many people overlooking this type of thing is exactly why our culture and society is where it is right now. Its time for people, especially men to stand up and call it out for what it is and push it out the door.
 
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Rootmaster said:
Player led teams are teams that pursue non team values. It is a woke theory for losers, race baiters, and assholes who never suited up. If you fit that category Cape Boy then that explains a lot.
Click to expand...
Keep pretending you know shit. Maybe one day people might actually think you do.
 
deedoubleyou said:
Exactly. You nailed exactly what they are doing pursuing non team values in the name of woke and inclusion. So many people overlooking this type of thing is exactly why our culture and society is where it is right now. Its time for people, especially men to stand up and call it out for what it is and push it out the door.
Click to expand...
You are confusing college athletics with politics of Biden.
 
Rootmaster said:
See...the difference between you and me is you are desperate for being liked on this forum. On the other hand I don't care. Therefore I am honest and you are a backwoods blowhard.
Click to expand...
Me I don't care if you hate me or don't hate me. Personally would like to meet you and smack the hell out of you. Because you are an ass.

It's the cancel culture that is killing athletics. Woke is political idea by post millennials and the new Bucky society.

Now take your multiple profiles and bullshit elsewhere.
 
Being “ woke” means being aware of discriminatory practices and working to stop them such as forcing players to be in school for two years rather than earning a living in the sport they play If they are good enough, while at the same time denying them the revenues they generate.

Or letting coaches and ADs move around as they see fit, while telling players that are not paid they cant.

Or forcing players to put up with a tyrant narcissist coach trying to control their every move and thought.

These things are from an obsolete racist thought process and will never return. They largely were ruled in court to be illegal.

Those sort of practices dont make anyone better. They are. It going back to how they were ever nor should they.

WVU can move forward and be on the cutting edge of the better way, or can be a loser with good ole boy dinosaur. Oaches no one wants to play for.
 
The Bell Tolls for Thee said:
Woke or not, I think there is a difference between having leaders on the team like Pat or Grant and this new concept of a "player led" team. The former is more like having a definitive dictator (coach) that delegates to trusted underlings (team captains) but is still in full control at all times. "Player led" is like having a king and parliament where the king actually cedes some authorities to the parliament while still keeping the majority of authority.
Click to expand...
And if people would read it you would see this player led shit he is speaking about is when the coaches are not allowed to be with the players.
 
WVUALLEN said:
Me I don't care if you hate me or don't hate me. Personally would like to meet you and smack the hell out of you. Because you are an ass.

It's the cancel culture that is killing athletics. Woke is political idea by post millennials and the new Bucky society.

Now take your multiple profiles and bullshit elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Whoa...little caped crusader has hurt feelings. You are a joke.
 
Buckaineer said:
Or letting coaches and ADs move around as they see fit, while telling players that are not paid they cant.

Or forcing players to put up with a tyrant narcissist coach trying to control their every move and ….
Click to expand...
You mean a coach like Holgersen who didn’t return with the team after a coaching bowl choke job, but flew in a Houston U. Boosters private jet to walk away from his team? In addition the way Holgersen screamed/screams at his players and faults the players for loosing games in press conferences?
 
westsiderSJHS77 said:
You mean a coach like Holgersen who didn’t return with the team after a coaching bowl choke job, but flew in a Houston U. Boosters private jet to walk away from his team? In addition the way Holgersen screamed/screams at his players and faults the players for loosing games in press conferences?
Click to expand...
Same way Brown curses and throws fits on the sidelines and behind the scenes tries to make the athletes be someone they are not to create a sometimes racist image of what they should be, rather than who they are. Or Huggins for that matter- how many players have left both behind instead of dealing with the my way or the highway narcissistic ranting? Many.

Those days are over- WVU must weed out its good ole boy “ cultural fit” and realize athletes dont attend schools to be molded into someone elses image of who they should be or how they must act and instead embrace people for who they are and stop being so damned racist about everything- as though an athletic event isnt an athletic event if players get paid like everyone else or if they can change their mind and go somewhere else if they feel it necessary for their own futures. Again like everyone else.

Its a game, not domination. Time some realize that.
 
Buckaineer said:
Same way Brown curses and throws fits on the sidelines and behind the scenes tries to make the athletes be someone they are not to create a sometimes racist image of what they should be, rather than who they are. Or Huggins for that matter- how many players have left both behind instead of dealing with the my way or the highway narcissistic ranting? Many.

Those days are over- WVU must weed out its good ole boy “ cultural fit” and realize athletes dont attend schools to be molded into someone elses image of who they should be or how they must act and instead embrace people for who they are and stop being so damned racist about everything- as though an athletic event isnt an athletic event if players get paid like everyone else or if they can change their mind and go somewhere else if they feel it necessary for their own futures. Again like everyone else.

Its a game, not domination. Time some realize that.
Click to expand...
Bucky is a pansy assed woke warrior who hates Christian's, white people and anybody who works.
 
Buckaineer said:
No they provide a quality service that enriches pretty much everyone else at their expense. They are being thought of and treated like cattle and its obviously what racists like yourself think of them.

But they are human beings and the days of ordering around their every thought and move to fit someones narcissistic view of their world is over. There is a reason its called a team— its not a my way or the highway bs anymore.
Click to expand...
I guess take away their free ride and pay the players. Let them pay for their own college. So since he doesn't agree with you he is racist?
 
Rootmaster said:
Bucky is a pansy assed woke warrior who hates Christian's, white people and anybody who works.
Click to expand...
Root is a racist Nazi psychopath who hates all mankind that doesnt look like him and is as ignorant as a human can be. Waste of flesh on the earth.
 
wvufan233 said:
I guess take away their free ride and pay the players. Let them pay for their own college. So since he doesn't agree with you he is racist?
Click to expand...
They dont get a “ free ride”. But those fleecing them sure do ( see Browns $20 million buyout for nothing as a perfect example.)
 
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