Perspective after the Cactus Bowl

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

Didn't want to post anything until the I had a chance to watch the entire game. A few opinions. Refs did screw us a few times. Not calling PI, Barber PF late hit when the opposing player kept the play going, and not calling the textbook definition of targeting against Howard. (Like the rule or not, which I personally don't, that hit was the definition). Special teams were ... special. Especially on kick offs. D couldn't figure out that QB run/WR screen thing, but its no excuse for poor tackling fundamentals. Lot of high hits and simple shoulder bumps. DB's didn't play the ball like they could've either.

That being said, this post is directed toward some posts I've seen using this win and Howard's performance as vindication against posters like myself who express concerns that WVU is not, or too slowly, progressing toward competing with the Big XII's best. I'm glad anytime WVU can come out on the right side of the W/L column. However, a 1 point shoot-out win against a 6-6 team that ranks 101st in yards allowed and 97th in points allowed isn't exactly a signature win. Most of the posters I'm referring to would be quick to point out quality of the opposition if a Marshall fan were blowing hot air, but want to downplay or ignore it in our case so they can use the win as support for their position. Howard looked sharp at times, but still missed some easy throws. Also got bailed out by the O-linemen and Smallwood on the game winning drive after that strip sack. Howard's performance shouldn't be surprising given he has done it before against poor defenses (UMD game comes to mind). Do you guys really believe that what you saw in this win means WVU is likely to meet or eclipse 8-5 next year? How about compete for a conference championship before 2019? Because I see it taking more faith than evidence based reason to come to that conclusion.

 

[skygusty]

It was better to win than to lose. Not going to give up on them before they play next year but I figure another struggle is in the works. Mystery defense and uncertainty at running back. I anticipate more swearing at the television. Hope the intermediate pass route reappears next year.

 

[5150]

Didn't want to post anything until the I had a chance to watch the entire game. A few opinions. Refs did screw us a few times. Not calling PI, Barber PF late hit when the opposing player kept the play going, and not calling the textbook definition of targeting against Howard. (Like the rule or not, which I personally don't, that hit was the definition). Special teams were ... special. Especially on kick offs. D couldn't figure out that QB run/WR screen thing, but its no excuse for poor tackling fundamentals. Lot of high hits and simple shoulder bumps. DB's didn't play the ball like they could've either.

That being said, this post is directed toward some posts I've seen using this win and Howard's performance as vindication against posters like myself who express concerns that WVU is not, or too slowly, progressing toward competing with the Big XII's best. I'm glad anytime WVU can come out on the right side of the W/L column. However, a 1 point shoot-out win against a 6-6 team that ranks 101st in yards allowed and 97th in points allowed isn't exactly a signature win. Most of the posters I'm referring to would be quick to point out quality of the opposition if a Marshall fan were blowing hot air, but want to downplay or ignore it in our case so they can use the win as support for their position. Howard looked sharp at times, but still missed some easy throws. Also got bailed out by the O-linemen and Smallwood on the game winning drive after that strip sack. Howard's performance shouldn't be surprising given he has done it before against poor defenses (UMD game comes to mind). Do you guys really believe that what you saw in this win means WVU is likely to meet or eclipse 8-5 next year? How about compete for a conference championship before 2019? Because I see it taking more faith than evidence based reason to come to that conclusion.

Dana and WV football very much needed this win for recruiting and the overall mood of our program. We don't have the money right now to buy-out Dana so its better we win then lose. You are correct that was not a program making win but it was exciting and should help with recruiting. Several very interesting things came to light during the run up to the bowl game that provides insight to our recent past.One, Dana's recruiting numbers for red-shirt freshman and Soph classes are bad and create concern. Second, Debo Sweeney's comment that WVU had more speed and depth then Clemson in the Orange Bowl was a sign that Stew left the program with more talent then Dana and Ollie wanted to be known. Ollie was spinning a story to make Dana look better. Finally, the last two bowl season are starting to proof Big 12 football is not that difficult of a conference and we should be competing at a higher level.

Overall, Dana continues to be an average coach with a terrible contract given to him by Clements and Ollie. Im excited for next season, but continue to hold breath that a program melt down is not just around the corner.

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

It was better to win than to lose. Not going to give up on them before they play next year but I figure another struggle is in the works. Mystery defense and uncertainty at running back. I anticipate more swearing at the television. Hope the intermediate pass route reappears next year.

Absolutely a win is always better than a loss. I'm just refuting this chest thumping and opposition browbeating done by those that believe any criticism or negativity is anti-WVU. To say that Howard's performance unequivocally and completely absolves any concerns about Howards ability to lead this offense against the Big XII best is a big stretch at the least. He has looked good several times this year against porous defenses, it's against teams where the defense is at least competent that he regresses from record setter straight to below average at time.

 

[WVU-SE]

I hear what you're saying but to say "Smallwood bailed us out" is kind of strange. I mean he's a player on the team. In all honesty I thought that was an unbelievable play call and perfect execution. I mean it wasn't like we were bailed out by a pass interference call or late hit on third and long. We had third and a mile, called a draw and executed it to perfection. Play of the game IMO and a great call.

As for Skylar Howard you and I are in agreement. He played well, yes, but also left a lot of meat on the bone which is crazy to say since he set the bowl record for passing yards but it's true. I love the kid but just don't think he's consistent enough to compete with the better defense's in the conference.

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

I hear what you're saying but to say "Smallwood bailed us out" is kind of strange. I mean he's a player on the team. In all honesty I thought that was an unbelievable play call and perfect execution. I mean it wasn't like we were bailed out by a pass interference call or late hit on third and long. We had third and a mile, called a draw and executed it to perfection. Play of the game IMO and a great call.

As for Skylar Howard you and I are in agreement. He played well, yes, but also left a lot of meat on the bone which is crazy to say since he set the bowl record for passing yards but it's true. I love the kid but just don't think he's consistent enough to compete with the better defense's in the conference.

On that last series Skylar did make some potentially costly mistakes. First, I do think he may have gotten bailed out by the refs. Looked like he may not have gotten that ball past the line of scrimmage when he threw it away after getting pressured and could've easily been called for intentional grounding. Second the strip sack could've sunk us right then and there, but WVU's O-linemen out scrummed for the ball. However it did put WVU in a big hole that a well executed run play bailed us out of. I love the kid's toughness, especially popping right up after those hits, and he shows flashes of brilliance (that Jennings TD throw, Shorts first TD, and one needle threading pass to Jordan Thompson). At the same time his two picks and overthrows of Sills twice on TD plays along with a few other overthrows are the mistakes that stalls out the offense when a tough D is on the other side of the ball. At least this game he seemed to throw it away rather than rolling out to the sideline and keeping it for a 3-4 yard loss like he did all season.

 

[VaultHunter]

Honest question. Don't you feel for WVU to reach the expectations you describe it needed to win this bowl and all the games it won this season? Regardless of what teams and bowl the wins came against? If WVU is not going to have overnight success in this conference (which obviously it isn't) wasn't this bowl win and all the wins this season extremely valuable in regards to reaching said goal?

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

Honest question. Don't you feel for WVU to reach the expectations you describe it needed to win this bowl and all the games it won this season? Regardless of what teams and bowl the wins came against? If WVU is not going to have overnight success in this conference (which obviously it isn't) wasn't this bowl win and all the wins this season extremely valuable in regards to reaching said goal?

Obviously losses to bad or average teams would hurt the goal of ever competing for a Big XII championship and I'd argue that the KSU loss was one such game. Playing OSU tight puts WVU in better shape as well, however getting thoroughly trounced by the 3 best Big XII teams (if OSU had played healthy Baylor or TCU, they wouldn't have sniffed 2nd place this year) shows WVU still has a long way to go. Despite the better record in the 2015 season, this is not a better team than the 2014 team as the largest margin in a loss to a ranked team last year was 12 points. (although that ugly loss to Texas is still a head scratcher) Honestly, outside of getting routing or being routed by ASU, I don't think it makes a difference. It seemed like the special teams were still making the same mental mistakes. The offense looked sharp at times, but shot themselves in the foot a few times as well. However, the offense looked every bit this good against UMD, GA southern, and Kansas. Only reason why the bowl game was record setting was because the other team kept scoring and WVU couldn't call off the dogs like in the three aforementioned games. The defense, which will be even more inexperienced next year, still has difficulty even slowing dynamic offenses.

Bottom line is that I feel it certainly didn't hurt, but I don't think it really helped much either.

 

[WVex-pat in GA]

I think it is fair to look to the OSU and KSU losses as coaching errors, bad play calling mostly. That said, if those two losses are reversed, is the entire complexion of the season different?

9-3 probably means a different bowl game and opponent and possibly a loss, ending the season at 9-4 instead of 8-5. Is it that big of a deal?

Just playing the Devil's advocate, so to speak.

 

[Leave No Doubt WVU]

Didn't want to post anything until the I had a chance to watch the entire game. A few opinions. Refs did screw us a few times. Not calling PI, Barber PF late hit when the opposing player kept the play going, and not calling the textbook definition of targeting against Howard. (Like the rule or not, which I personally don't, that hit was the definition). Special teams were ... special. Especially on kick offs. D couldn't figure out that QB run/WR screen thing, but its no excuse for poor tackling fundamentals. Lot of high hits and simple shoulder bumps. DB's didn't play the ball like they could've either.

That being said, this post is directed toward some posts I've seen using this win and Howard's performance as vindication against posters like myself who express concerns that WVU is not, or too slowly, progressing toward competing with the Big XII's best. I'm glad anytime WVU can come out on the right side of the W/L column. However, a 1 point shoot-out win against a 6-6 team that ranks 101st in yards allowed and 97th in points allowed isn't exactly a signature win. Most of the posters I'm referring to would be quick to point out quality of the opposition if a Marshall fan were blowing hot air, but want to downplay or ignore it in our case so they can use the win as support for their position. Howard looked sharp at times, but still missed some easy throws. Also got bailed out by the O-linemen and Smallwood on the game winning drive after that strip sack. Howard's performance shouldn't be surprising given he has done it before against poor defenses (UMD game comes to mind). Do you guys really believe that what you saw in this win means WVU is likely to meet or eclipse 8-5 next year? How about compete for a conference championship before 2019? Because I see it taking more faith than evidence based reason to come to that conclusion.

Do you really believe that what you saw during a poor showing in a cactus bowl win means WVU will be unable to meet or eclipse 8-5 next season?

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

Do you really believe that what you saw during a poor showing in a cactus bowl win means WVU will be unable to meet or eclipse 8-5 next season?

I'm not saying it was a poor showing. I am saying it isn't a feather in the cap performance like the 2007 Fiesta Bowl which some posters are darn close to equating the two. What I saw in the Cactus Bowl was the same WVU offense and special teams that we've seen all year. Defense was a little worse than what we've seen all year. No difference between this game and the TTU game. Only difference between this game and GA southern, KU, and UMD games is that ASU at least had a pulse on offense. Depleted defense and tougher schedule, although a little more friendly in terms of home/away and not facing a gauntlet of the 4 best teams on the schedule in a row, makes me doubtful that WVU will have as good a team next year. As always, I hope I'm wrong, but we've all seen this before.

 

[HurdyGurdyEer]

I'm glad that we won.

But Howard had 23 incomplete passes, of which some were big misses to wide open guys and others were very lucky to not have been intercepted. It's there in plain sight for anyone to see and that is all that Bell seems to be pointing out.

 

[GoWVU]

Defense was a little worse than what we've seen all year. No difference between this game and the TTU game.

You can't go so far as to say that. The defense in the Texas Tech game was legitimately good and vital to the win. Remember we held TT to what were season lows for them at that point in total yards, passing yards, yards/pass attempt, etc. We beat the Red Raiders with that and a suddenly physical running attack, neither of which resembles the ASU game.

Nothing wrong with the overall point you're making, though.

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

You can't go so far as to say that. The defense in the Texas Tech game was legitimately good and vital to the win. Remember we held TT to what were season lows for them at that point in total yards, passing yards, yards/pass attempt, etc. We beat the Red Raiders with that and a suddenly physical running attack, neither of which resembles the ASU game.

Nothing wrong with the overall point you're making, though.

True the defense played better against a power offense in the TTU, but the WVU offense played equally worse against a TTU defense that is just as bad as ASU. So the complexion of the game was different, but the overall team performance was about on the same level. Close game with a WVU win by one possession against an overall average team.

 

[dogeered_again]

It looks to me that we are in great shape. We have a half a dozen BigII coaching candidates on board right here, right now. Let's get one of you guys and turn this bus around?! What a bunch of A-holes!

 

[Shipyard Dog]

Dana and WV football very much needed this win for recruiting and the overall mood of our program. We don't have the money right now to buy-out Dana so its better we win then lose. You are correct that was not a program making win but it was exciting and should help with recruiting. Several very interesting things came to light during the run up to the bowl game that provides insight to our recent past.One, Dana's recruiting numbers for red-shirt freshman and Soph classes are bad and create concern. Second, Debo Sweeney's comment that WVU had more speed and depth then Clemson in the Orange Bowl was a sign that Stew left the program with more talent then Dana and Ollie wanted to be known. Ollie was spinning a story to make Dana look better. Finally, the last two bowl season are starting to proof Big 12 football is not that difficult of a conference and we should be competing at a higher level.

Overall, Dana continues to be an average coach with a terrible contract given to him by Clements and Ollie. Im excited for next season, but continue to hold breath that a program melt down is not just around the corner.

You should call Colin Dunlap and tell him how happy you are.

 

[ThePunish-EER]

Dana and WV football very much needed this win for recruiting and the overall mood of our program. We don't have the money right now to buy-out Dana so its better we win then lose. You are correct that was not a program making win but it was exciting and should help with recruiting. Several very interesting things came to light during the run up to the bowl game that provides insight to our recent past.One, Dana's recruiting numbers for red-shirt freshman and Soph classes are bad and create concern. Second, Debo Sweeney's comment that WVU had more speed and depth then Clemson in the Orange Bowl was a sign that Stew left the program with more talent then Dana and Ollie wanted to be known. Ollie was spinning a story to make Dana look better. Finally, the last two bowl season are starting to proof Big 12 football is not that difficult of a conference and we should be competing at a higher level.

Overall, Dana continues to be an average coach with a terrible contract given to him by Clements and Ollie. Im excited for next season, but continue to hold breath that a program melt down is not just around the corner.

several incorrect statements. If the lack of depth was a fabrication made up by Luck, how did I come to the same conclusion on lack of depth several months before Stewart was fired? I posted about the lack of depth and how we needed to get Stewart out of here. It was true. I saw it. Several others saw it. And finally luck saw it and made the change. Secondly, as I've explained several times; Danas contract is not "horrible". He is the 8th highest paid in the big12 conference out of 10 schools. Only Kansas and Iowa state pay their head coaches less. As I've said, this is not 1980 anymore. These contracts are the norm now. If anything, Dana is likely underpaid at WVU. We've finished 4th and 5th the last 2 years in the big 12. That means Dana is a bargain. You want better results? Pay more. You want to keep a coach like Dana you pay more. Period.

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

several incorrect statements. If the lack of depth was a fabrication made up by Luck, how did I come to the same conclusion on lack of depth several months before Stewart was fired? I posted about the lack of depth and how we needed to get Stewart out of here. It was true. I saw it. Several others saw it. And finally luck saw it and made the change. Secondly, as I've explained several times; Danas contract is not "horrible". He is the 8th highest paid in the big12 conference out of 10 schools. Only Kansas and Iowa state pay their head coaches less. As I've said, this is not 1980 anymore. These contracts are the norm now. If anything, Dana is likely underpaid at WVU. We've finished 4th and 5th the last 2 years in the big 12. That means Dana is a bargain. You want better results? Pay more. You want to keep a coach like Dana you pay more. Period.

Why do you keep going on about Stewart and his lack of depth when it has nothing to do with the scholarship and depth problems of today?

 

[ThePunish-EER]

Why do you keep going on about Stewart and his lack of depth when it has nothing to do with the scholarship and depth problems of today?

because the OP posted about it being a lie. It was not a lie. Try to keep up.

 

[Buckaineer]

WVU defeated a P5 team with a winning record in a bowl game played essentially in the middle of the night for WVU in the opponents home city about 15 miles from their home stadium.

So called "fans" want to belittle that and continue with their neverending attempts to destroy the coaches and program. Sad, just sad.

Howard had a historic passing output and passed for more yards than anyone else in bowl season, yet these people already are predicting doom and gloom. Some really need to get a life.

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

WVU defeated a P5 team with a winning record in a bowl game played essentially in the middle of the night for WVU in the opponents home city about 15 miles from their home stadium.

So called "fans" want to belittle that and continue with their neverending attempts to destroy the coaches and program. Sad, just sad.

Howard had a historic passing output and passed for more yards than anyone else in bowl season, yet these people already are predicting doom and gloom. Some really need to get a life.

So the fact that it was a 6-6 team with the 101st D in yards allowed and 97th D in points allowed means nothing? The game was late for WVU fans and a home game for ASU, but those a minor set backs compared to the fact that every team with an average offense scored 30 points on these guys. Again, I'm glad we won, but a one point shoot out against these guys is not a much better team performance than the average we have seen all season.

 

[TexasforevEER]

So the fact that it was a 6-6 team with the 101st D in yards allowed and 97th D in points allowed means nothing? The game was late for WVU fans and a home game for ASU, but those a minor set backs compared to the fact that every team with an average offense scored 30 points on these guys. Again, I'm glad we won, but a one point shoot out against these guys is not a much better team performance than the average we have seen all season.

On the other hand...................would it have better suited your needs had the Mountaineers lost? Just asking.

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

On the other hand...................would it have better suited your agenda had the Mountaineers lost? Just asking.

What would that agenda be? I want WVU to be the best football program it can be and in my opinion the Mountaineers are capable of better than what we've seen the last 4 seasons. It doesn't matter who the coaches or players are as long as they get results. I am just observing a lot of posters equating a 43-42 victory against a 6-6 team with one of the worst defenses in the country as some big improvement or statement win like a BCS bowl. I just think the team's performance was about on par for the whole season and not "proving all the doubters wrong."

 

[TexasforevEER]

I get your drift but keep in mind that a Win against ASU or any other team is hard to get. ASU was well coached and stocked with plenty of great players ....................and they played hard with high expectations to win. All in all it was a great game and provided great entertainment for fans on both sides.

 

[eerdoc]

So the fact that it was a 6-6 team with the 101st D in yards allowed and 97th D in points allowed means nothing? The game was late for WVU fans and a home game for ASU, but those a minor set backs compared to the fact that every team with an average offense scored 30 points on these guys. Again, I'm glad we won, but a one point shoot out against these guys is not a much better team performance than the average we have seen all season.

The team we played was called "Arizona State". The team that accumulated the stats referred to was also called 'Arizona State'. However, were these the same teams? Remember Arizona State was predicted to have a powerhouse team and, potential, contend for National honors. What happened ? I do not know and am not willing to analyze their team, players, performances, etc for the season. But, I AM willing to consider that they had significant time between the end of the regular season and the bowl game to institute some measures that were absent during parts of the regular season. Did they have some key injuries that detracted from expected performance? I just know that making a lot out of statistics is fool hearty. They have decent talent and coaching. We had limited information on which to base a game plan (always a potential problem with bowl games). They had the month of December for a lot of things to happen before the game. How many points better than their season performances were they because of the home field advantage and travel distance? My point is that berating our team for a win and using their season stats as proof positive that they were not a strong opponent is akin to applying 'tunnel vision'

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

On the other hand...................would it have better suited your agenda had the Mountaineers lost? Just asking.

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

[

The team we played was called "Arizona State". The team that accumulated the stats referred to was also called 'Arizona State'. However, were these the same teams? Remember Arizona State was predicted to have a powerhouse team and, potential, contend for National honors. What happened ? I do not know and am not willing to analyze their team, players, performances, etc for the season. But, I AM willing to consider that they had significant time between the end of the regular season and the bowl game to institute some measures that were absent during parts of the regular season. Did they have some key injuries that detracted from expected performance? I just know that making a lot out of statistics is fool hearty. They have decent talent and coaching. We had limited information on which to base a game plan (always a potential problem with bowl games). They had the month of December for a lot of things to happen before the game. How many points better than their season performances were they because of the home field advantage and travel distance? My point is that berating our team for a win and using their season stats as proof positive that they were not a strong opponent is akin to applying 'tunnel vision'

This is what I'm talking about. I just said that a one point victory against this average Arizona State team and the performance of Howard against a very porous Arizona State defense were not as profound as some make them out to be. This is now "berating"? I never said it was a bad game, I just said that it wasn't that far from the average performance WVU has had all year. In my opinion to use this game as an example as to why WVU is on the right tract to bigger and better things next year is a bit of stretch. Do you think that if the team had played OU, TCU, or Baylor the same way as they did against ASU that it would've been that much different? Maybe trimmed the score down a bit, but still a convincing loss. Alas that is the culture taking over here, if you are not full positive or full negative you must be on the "other" side.

 

[TexasforevEER]

So it is that ColoradoKoolAidBoy wants to go after ole Warez. Well................come on down son.

Warez

 

[5150]

several incorrect statements. If the lack of depth was a fabrication made up by Luck, how did I come to the same conclusion on lack of depth several months before Stewart was fired? I posted about the lack of depth and how we needed to get Stewart out of here. It was true. I saw it. Several others saw it. And finally luck saw it and made the change. Secondly, as I've explained several times; Danas contract is not "horrible". He is the 8th highest paid in the big12 conference out of 10 schools. Only Kansas and Iowa state pay their head coaches less. As I've said, this is not 1980 anymore. These contracts are the norm now. If anything, Dana is likely underpaid at WVU. We've finished 4th and 5th the last 2 years in the big 12. That means Dana is a bargain. You want better results? Pay more. You want to keep a coach like Dana you pay more. Period.

Im telling you what Dabo Sweeney said, "WVU had more depth and speed then us the last time we played in the Orange Bowl and we had to fix that problem".