OT: Can I pick the brain of any HOA experts or attorneys?

[There goes the Major]

Thanks for reading. I live in a condo and my upstairs neighbor has a puppy, hardwood floors, an 8 year-old, and multiple people living up there. There seems to be someone up playing with the dog all evening and night, running, hopping, skipping, and rolling balls, except midnight to 4:00 AM. When no one is playing with the dog between midnight and 4:00 AM, the dog frequently takes bones, balls, and toys and mauls, pushes, and drops the toys on the hardwood floor throughout the night. The dog sleeps during the day.

The owner does not care. I have talked to her nicely three times and she just nods her head until I quit talking then leaves. The HOA says there are no noise ordinances with the HOA and it would have to be the police to enforce any city ordnance being broken. I'm trying to set up mediation but the owner is indifferent.
I am living a miserable existence with this. I own and so does the neighbor. I would hate to spend a bunch of $$$ to do something to the ceiling--IF it would help. I sleep in ear plugs and a noise machine that does not help the vibration of the ceiling/floor very much. Any ideas? Thanks very, very, very much! I hate this worse than Pitt!

 

[dave]

Call the police and file a noise ordinance. Keep doing it until it either stops or she decides to talk and at least you are in control of the situation.

 

[Orlaco]

Your HOA doesn't have a way for you to introduce new rules ?

If not, I suppose passive-aggressive action is needed. If your neighbor can make endless noise at all hours...so can you. I know..not cool...but wtf ?

 

[There goes the Major]

Call the police and file a noise ordinance. Keep doing it until it either stops or she decides to talk and at least you are in control of the situation.

Thank you, Dave

 

[There goes the Major]

Your HOA doesn't have a way for you to introduce new rules ?

If not, I suppose passive-aggressive action is needed. If your neighbor can make endless noise at all hours...so can you. I know..not cool...but wtf ?

Thank you, Orlaco

 

[There goes the Major]

Your HOA doesn't have a way for you to introduce new rules ?

If not, I suppose passive-aggressive action is needed. If your neighbor can make endless noise at all hours...so can you. I know..not cool...but wtf ?

I have asked the HOA about their different levels of regulations and how those things are instituted. I have not heard back from them. I think to change something in the covenant or charter or whatever takes a majority of the owners to vote for it. No way do I ever get that many of them to vote, and who knows if a majority will vote for a noise ordinance. As I understand it, a quorum does not count. But maybe there is a lower level of regulation that I can find out about and get it changed. That will take some time.

And, yeah, I've become a little passive aggressive like that. The problem is that doing that just makes me more mad and awake. Oh for some solid Zzzzzzzzzzzz. Thanks

 

[3xWVUenginEER]

3 options covering the range of how to handle this

1. Sell and Move
2. Talk to other neighbors to see if they're bothered by the noise and present a united front
3. It would be a shame if something tragic happenned to the dog or the neighbor, just tragic


Hope that helps. Btw I'm not a lawyer or a HOA person.

 

[skygusty]

I would think about upgrading my housing. People living above you will never put you in control, your current neighbor could sell and you could have even worse neighbors. Buying a house or condo with no upstairs units, an end unit, and one with very good insulation between units will improve your odds. Better yet, a stand alone house. Sorry man, great neighbors are a much underappreciated asset.

 

[WVex-pat in GA]

The owner does not care. I have talked to her nicely three times and she just nods her head until I quit talking then leaves. The HOA says there are no noise ordinances with the HOA and it would have to be the police to enforce any city ordnance being broken. I'm trying to set up mediation but the owner is indifferent.

File the police report; as many times as reasonable. Get copies of the reports. Keep trying some kind of mediation. If no result, file a lawsuit against the dog owner, even if it is small claims court. You must be able to prove damages and the value there of. I would say the estimate for sound-proofing is you claim.

 

[Euell]

Call the police and file a noise ordinance. Keep doing it until it either stops or she decides to talk and at least you are in control of the situation.

I would be very surprised if there is any noise ordinance in any city in the United States that makes it illegal for a dog to drop toys on a hardwood floor. Even if there is, I believe it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to enforce.

 

[WVex-pat in GA]

This is an example of Pittsburgh's Noise Ordinance, which would apply in this case if applicable.

Apartment to apartment and residence to residence noise.

(1)
Noise limit above the background noise level. No person shall transmit or cause to be transmitted any noise that leaves the residential premises from which it originates and enters any residential unit creating noise levels in excess of the background noise level in the complainant's residential unit at the levels specified below in Table C.


Table C Maximum Allowable Noise Level Above the Background Noise Level - Measured at Complainant's Unit

Type of Receiving Premises Daytime: 7:00 a.m.—10:00 p.m. Nighttime: 10:00 p.m.—7:00 a.m.
Residential 10 dB(C) 5 dB(C)
(2)
Noise measurement. An officer responding to a complaint shall measure the noise at a centralized location in the complainant's unit corresponding to the noise source located on the offending premises.

 

[steeleer]

Talk to the neighbor who's making the noise. No grandstanding. Just a request for common courtesy during sane sleeping hours

If that doesn't work....I'd go with earplugs (much cheaper than acoustic tile) when I wanted to sleep and blare the sh!t out of my speakers while I was away at work.


But that's just me. Had the same issue in college. Worked like a charm. Eventually they surrendered after I sent them a letter with my terms.
They loved Gangster rap at 3am, so I countered with Brahm or Pavaratti at 7am. Took about a week.

 

[WVU enginEER]

I have asked the HOA about their different levels of regulations and how those things are instituted. I have not heard back from them. I think to change something in the covenant or charter or whatever takes a majority of the owners to vote for it. No way do I ever get that many of them to vote, and who knows if a majority will vote for a noise ordinance. As I understand it, a quorum does not count. But maybe there is a lower level of regulation that I can find out about and get it changed. That will take some time.

And, yeah, I've become a little passive aggressive like that. The problem is that doing that just makes me more mad and awake. Oh for some solid Zzzzzzzzzzzz. Thanks

Get a copy of the HOA covenants and restrictions. You should have been given a copy when you bought the condo. Those are rules that govern the HOA. Then look at local ordinances.

Get two 6' step ladders and some big ass speakers. Lay them flat with speakers at the ceiling. Put some Blue Oyster Cult on repeat, crank it up as loud as it will go; then go away for a three day weekend. When your neighbor complains, just walk away and say, "oh, sorry, but my dog must have been up all night playing the stereo."

 

[steeleer]

Get a copy of the HOA covenants and restrictions. You should have been given a copy when you bought the condo. Those are rules that govern the HOA. Then look at local ordinances.

Get two 6' step ladders and some big ass speakers. Lay them flat with speakers at the ceiling. Put some Blue Oyster Cult on repeat, crank it up as loud as it will go; then go away for a three day weekend. When your neighbor complains, just walk away and say, "oh, sorry, but my dog must have been up all night playing the stereo."

Fear the Reaper (Cowbell Version) played on a continuous loop for 8 hours would do nicely.

This might sound sophomoric, but damn...how can you not show a neighbor some common courtesy?

 

[Darth_VadEER]

File the police report; as many times as reasonable. Get copies of the reports. Keep trying some kind of mediation. If no result, file a lawsuit against the dog owner, even if it is small claims court. You must be able to prove damages and the value there of. I would say the estimate for sound-proofing is you claim.

A puppy dropping toys on hardwood floors doesn't need police intervention.

What the OP describes is certainly an annoyance, but doesn't appear to be anything more than typical noises generated from everyday living (no parties, unreasonably loud music, uncontrolled commotion, domestic disputes, ect.). If the people own the residence, they have the right to move freely within it - even at night time. It really all depends on the association rules and it's difficult to restrict someone's movement in their own home.

I'd recommend speaking with an attorney who might be able to draft a letter to the HOA or neighbor. I'm not really sure what it would say but it starts the process and requires formal acknowledgement.

Until then the ol' broom to the ceiling trick might be the best bet.

The OP has my empathy. I once lived below a unit that had 6 men in a two bedroom apartment. They all worked at an Indian restaurant and would return home as a group around 12:00 a.m. From then until 5:00 a.m., they'd stomp and go in and out of the deck with the sliding door to smoke cigarettes - the sliding door made a very loud rumble/vibration and I once counted over 40 open/closes in a single night.

One night I got so angry I went to confront them while they were on the deck (I had the ground floor). The screen to my sliding door got jammed and in a fit of rage it pushed/kicked it off it's track and threw it down the adjacent hill....then just started screaming at them.

I ended up switching units and learned to never, ever live beneath someone.

From the other perspective, I once lived in a top floor unit and the lady below made several complaints about my noise level. I never even had company visit there, never had loud TV or music, quiet as a chipmunk...the problem was I would take early morning flights, so it would be common for me to be up showering and getting dressed at 3:30 am.....that would wake her up I guess, but all I was doing was showering in my own residence.

 

[BobbyBoucheer]

You won't want to hear this, but sell and move to a place that does not have anyone above you.

While I've not had the displeasure of living in a place that had tenants above me, I've had plenty of friends that have and they, every last one of them, have complained about the noise and/or their neighbors above them.

A strange note on this is I have traveled a lot on business and pleasure and cannot recall anyone above me in a hotel that bothered me with noise.

 

[dave]

I would be very surprised if there is any noise ordinance in any city in the United States that makes it illegal for a dog to drop toys on a hardwood floor. Even if there is, I believe it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to enforce.

I agree. I would still file the complaint. If it was keeping me awake I would be as big a pain in their ass as I could be without violating the law until some sort of agreement is made. Moving might not be an option.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

I agree. I would still file the complaint. If it was keeping me awake I would be as big a pain in their ass as I could be without violating the law until some sort of agreement is made. Moving might not be an option.

I'm not sure the officer would file it. He'd respond and probably become annoyed about wasting his time.

 

[There goes the Major]

A puppy dropping toys on hardwood floors doesn't need police intervention.

What the OP describes is certainly an annoyance, but doesn't appear to be anything more than typical noises generated from everyday living (no parties, unreasonably loud music, uncontrolled commotion, domestic disputes, ect.). If the people own the residence, they have the right to move freely within it - even at night time. It really all depends on the association rules and it's difficult to restrict someone's movement in their own home.

I'd recommend speaking with an attorney who might be able to draft a letter to the HOA or neighbor. I'm not really sure what it would say but it starts the process and requires formal acknowledgement.

Until then the ol' broom to the ceiling trick might be the best bet.

The OP has my empathy. I once lived below a unit that had 6 men in a two bedroom apartment. They all worked at an Indian restaurant and would return home as a group around 12:00 a.m. From then until 5:00 a.m., they'd stomp and go in and out of the deck with the sliding door to smoke cigarettes - the sliding door made a very loud rumble/vibration and I once counted over 40 open/closes in a single night.

One night I got so angry I went to confront them while they were on the deck (I had the ground floor). The screen to my sliding door got jammed and in a fit of rage it pushed/kicked it off it's track and threw it down the adjacent hill....then just started screaming at them.

I ended up switching units and learned to never, ever live beneath someone.

From the other perspective, I once lived in a top floor unit and the lady below made several complaints about my noise level. I never even had company visit there, never had loud TV or music, quiet as a chipmunk...the problem was I would take early morning flights, so it would be common for me to be up showering and getting dressed at 3:30 am.....that would wake her up I guess, but all I was doing was showering in my own residence.

"A puppy dropping toys on hardwood floors doesn't need police intervention.

What the OP describes is certainly an annoyance, but doesn't appear to be anything more than typical noises generated from everyday living (no parties, unreasonably loud music, uncontrolled commotion, domestic disputes, ect.). If the people own the residence, they have the right to move freely within it - even at night time."
Yes, I realize they have a right to go about their normal business in a normal fashion. But, dropping heavy toys, jumping, pushing things across the floor and other sources of loud thuds in the middle of the night are not typical things. The dog does not need to play in the middle of the night. It should sleep. And playing fetch and rolling a ball down the hall at 5:30 AM is not typical. To me, that is unnecessary and excessive. Especially if it wakes me up several times or limiting my sleep to 5 bad hours.

I'm just explaining. Thank you for your info,

 

[TexasforevEER]

Try talking to the dog. The dog likely has more brains than does the owner.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

"A puppy dropping toys on hardwood floors doesn't need police intervention.

What the OP describes is certainly an annoyance, but doesn't appear to be anything more than typical noises generated from everyday living (no parties, unreasonably loud music, uncontrolled commotion, domestic disputes, ect.). If the people own the residence, they have the right to move freely within it - even at night time."
Yes, I realize they have a right to go about their normal business in a normal fashion. But, dropping heavy toys, jumping, pushing things across the floor and other sources of loud thuds in the middle of the night are not typical things. The dog does not need to play in the middle of the night. It should sleep. And playing fetch and rolling a ball down the hall at 5:30 AM is not typical. To me, that is unnecessary and excessive. Especially if it wakes me up several times or limiting my sleep to 5 bad hours.

I'm just explaining. Thank you for your info,

I wasn't meaning to take their side. I believe they are in the wrong, and obviously very rude people. Feeling uncomfortable in your own home is tortuous. I was just talking to a cousin who is dealing with a horrible neighbor. They live in a very nice area, but their neighbor has a very mean dog (German Shepherd) who they don't supervise. My cousin has two young children who can't play outside because they fear the dog will attack (it's has charged at them and is very hostile). Long story short, I told her husband to write a formal letter to the home owner and file a report with the police to create a paper trail establishing their concerns - then the next time they see the dog comes onto their property while his family is out he should shoot it dead.

I agree they are most likely being excessive as dictated by the acceptable standards of polite and neigbhorly behavior. It's unnecessary, and excessive but it's very difficult to tell a home owner they can't play with their own dog in their own residence.

You're right. They're wrong....it just doesn't matter.

IMO, you need to resolve this directly with them, because I don't think the association or anyone else would be able to step in. You said she ignored you. Maybe speak with an attorney and draft a letter that that requires acknowledgement. That will at least get a formal dialogue established and more than likely, stiffen them up.

I sincerely hope it works out for you.

 

[dogeered_again]

During my divorce proceedings I was living in an apartment in a great area, but near a high tech commercial area. These companies hired a number of East Indians who like to load up their apartments like a submarine sleeping quarters. Differing schedules on their part created noises at all hours. They lived directly above me and I, too, got the sliding door and cigarette smoking thing going on. I confronted them... nicely, at first. It didn't subside, so I got a bit more belligerent. That didn't work as I expected so I took one of my counter stools and placed it in front of their door and began an endless drum solo on the door for many hours and at all different times. That worked! Additionally, I did buy a rather powerful stereo/surround sound system with sub woofers and played that as loud as possible while I was out. It was a "war"!