Obama moving to ban AR bullets through executive action...

[rog1187]

Interesting comment from a police officer in the article:

"Criminals aren't going to go out and buy a $1,000 AR pistol," Brent Ball, owner of 417 Guns in Springfield, Mo., and a 17-year veteran police officer told the Springfield News-Leader. "As a police officer I'm not worried about AR pistols because you can see them. It's the small gun in a guy's hand you can't see that kills you."

Washington Examiner

 

[Mntneer]

He's not going to ban the 5.56, but the green tip 5.56.

I've never shot green tip before (Our range doesn't allow it for safety reasons) but standard FMJ 5.56 is not going to be effected by this. And this will only last as long as he's President.

 

[rog1187]

Re: He's not going to ban the 5.56, but the green tip 5.56.


From reading through the BATFE document, they are arguing the need from the angle that it threatens police officers...but (and it's a sample of one) it seems like the police officer in the article makes an interesting comment on criminals and the use of ARs versus use of cheap handguns.

 

[Mntneer]

It's definitely a red herring issue. **

.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Re: He's not going to ban the 5.56, but the green tip 5.56.

Originally posted by Mntneer:
I've never shot green tip before (Our range doesn't allow it for safety reasons) but standard FMJ 5.56 is not going to be effected by this. And this will only last as long as he's President.

There really isn't a huge different between the two ballistics wise. I understand it from a range stand point as the steel tip on the "green tip" ammo can cause more damage to berms and or backstops depending on what type of range you are shooting on. From a practical "in the field" perspective, it's not like the green tip is cop-killer rounds or something. There seems to be common misconception that the green tip is AP and it is not.

 

[Wolf J. Flywheel]

In my world, a green tip means you need a battery of antibiotics. **

f

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Re: In my world, a green tip means you need a battery of antibiotics. **

I once barebacked a Thai whore in a fit of drunken lust. Not sure how I escaped that one free of everything except the $15 USD she charged.

 

[rog1187]

Re: In my world, a green tip means you need a battery of antibiotics. **

I immediately went to the movie Hangover Part II...hoping your experience wasn't the same as ed Helms's character.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Re: In my world, a green tip means you need a battery of antibiotics. **

Originally posted by rog1187:
I immediately went to the movie Hangover Part II...hoping your experience wasn't the same as ed Helms's character.

I said I barebacked, not that I was barebacked. Regardless, I released my sperms on her face and neck.

 

[dolemitebmf]

Non-rhetorical question... Wouldn't most FMJ rifle bullets punch through standard body armor?
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Depends on caliber. Most police issue vests are rated for pistol rounds as that's the overwhelming majority (90%) of gun related shootings, specifically 9MM. Another reason why the assault weapon onslaught is ridiculous and fodder for the idiots.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[Popeer]

Re: Maybe instead of going with the right-wing media hysteria ...

... You should read what's really going on. ATF is empowered -- and required -- by law to conduct such reviews, so there's nothing new or sinister here. This one is prompted by the fact that there are now handguns capable of firing 5.56 rifle ammunition, something that wasn't true when the green tip rounds were first introduced. And maybe a criminal in Springfield, Missouri, won't buy an AR pistol but that's hardly a representative sample of law enforcement, is it?


http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/Libr

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Re: Maybe instead of going with the right-wing media hysteria ...

Originally posted by Popeer:
... You should read what's really going on. ATF is empowered -- and required -- by law to conduct such reviews, so there's nothing new or sinister here. This one is prompted by the fact that there are now handguns capable of firing 5.56 rifle ammunition, something that wasn't true when the green tip rounds were first introduced. And maybe a criminal in Springfield, Missouri, won't buy an AR pistol but that's hardly a representative sample of law enforcement, is it?

So nothing that he posted indicated to me he was going with the right-wing media hysteria. Obama is in fact considering executive action to outlaw the "green tip" .556 mm NATO round for private consumer use. He also posted the link and a quote from within the article and said "interesting".

So now explain what eliminating NATO standard ball ammo will do? You can still get normal .556 and .223. So as a manufacturer, you stop selling one and start selling more of the other. I don't get it. I don't get the hysteria over the action but I don't get the action itself either. It makes absolutely no sense and will have zero impact on gun owners.

 

[Popeer]

Re: Maybe instead of going with the right-wing media hysteria ...

Originally posted by DvlDog4WVU:
I don't get the hysteria over the action but I don't get the action itself either. It makes absolutely no sense

The hysteria part is in the first sentence of the linked article: "It's starting." Ever since Obama was elected the lunatic fringe of the right has warned repeatedly that Obama is coming for our guns. So far I don't know of a single person who's had their legally owned firearms confiscated.

This ATF review has been going on for almost three years. The action would simply change the designation of 5.56 green-tip rounds from "primarily sporting" to "armor piercing":

To ensure consistency, upon final implementation of the sporting purpose framework outlined above, ATF must withdraw the exemptions for 5.56 mm "green tip" ammunition, including both the SS109 and M855 cartridges.

As far as I can tell from reading ATF's report that I linked, it doesn't affect any other 5.56 rounds currently available. But I could be wrong, this is the Federal government after all.

This post was edited on 2/27 10:25 AM by Popeer

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Re: Maybe instead of going with the right-wing media hysteria ...

Originally posted by Popeer:

Originally posted by DvlDog4WVU:
I don't get the hysteria over the action but I don't get the action itself either. It makes absolutely no sense

We are talking about the Federal government here ...

Wonder if the gun control people realize Obama is responsible for more purchases and distribution of ammo than anytime since the ludicrous "assault weapons ban" was lifted. Maybe more than then, I haven't seen the numbers.

 

[Popeer]

Re: Maybe instead of going with the right-wing media hysteria ...

Originally posted by DvlDog4WVU:
Wonder if the gun control people realize Obama is responsible for more purchases and distribution of ammo than anytime since the ludicrous "assault weapons ban" was lifted. Maybe more than then, I haven't seen the numbers.

I'm not sure what your point is. The first assault weapons ban was pushed through by Ronald Reagan, who said he didn't see why the Bloods and Crips should be armed better than the LAPD. He didn't stop buying M-16s or .45s or 9mm Berettas for the military and Federal law enforcement agencies.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Re: Maybe instead of going with the right-wing media hysteria ...

Originally posted by Popeer:

Originally posted by DvlDog4WVU:
Wonder if the gun control people realize Obama is responsible for more purchases and distribution of ammo than anytime since the ludicrous "assault weapons ban" was lifted. Maybe more than then, I haven't seen the numbers.

I'm not sure what your point is. The first assault weapons ban was pushed through by Ronald Reagan, who said he didn't see why the Bloods and Crips should be armed better than the LAPD. He didn't stop buying M-16s or .45s or 9mm Berettas for the military and Federal law enforcement agencies.

Maybe we are talking about different AWBs. The one I am talking about was the one in 94 under Clinton. The one under Reagan regulated the sale of very selective and small list of imported weapons.

The classifications selected to classify an assault weapon in the 94 AWB were what was ludicrous. They were all cosmetic and did nothing but cause the manufacturers to change the cosmetics. It did nothing to truly curb the weapons operation and lethality. In studies post AWB they determined the ban did not create any meaningful statistical data on its effect which was why Bush allowed it to expire.

Here is what it encompassed for media portrayed "assault weapons" such as AR-15s.
Telescoping Stock: Cosmetic (went with a fixed stock)

Pistol Grip: Cosmetic (re-engineered the stocks to have a built in pistol grip)

Bayonet Mount: Cosmetic (removed)

Grenade Launcher: Attachment. You couldn't get "grenades" for them to begin with without a Class III Weapons License (possession requires you to voluntarily give up your 4th amendment right), you could buy smoke and flares. You could still buy a standalone launcher for those rounds.

Flash Suppressor: Cosmetic (Removed)

 

[Popeer]

Re: Maybe instead of going with the right-wing media hysteria ...

Originally posted by DvlDog4WVU:
Maybe we are talking about different AWBs. The one I am talking about was the one in 94 under Clinton. The one under Reagan regulated the sale of very selective and small list of imported weapons.

The 1994 AWB expired on schedule in 2004, and all efforts to revive it have failed.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Re: Maybe instead of going with the right-wing media hysteria ...

Originally posted by Popeer:

Originally posted by DvlDog4WVU:
Maybe we are talking about different AWBs. The one I am talking about was the one in 94 under Clinton. The one under Reagan regulated the sale of very selective and small list of imported weapons.

The 1994 AWB expired on schedule in 2004, and all efforts to revive it have failed.

I know. I said that in my post above and why it expired. Also why it was ineffective and allowed to expire.

The original thing I said was that Barry has been responsible for more firearms and ammo being sold since the 94 AWB expired. Not because he is endorsing anything, but because every time he says something about firearms everyone runs out and panic-buys weapons and hoards ammo. I have a guy who works for me who has stockpiled almost 100k rounds. Not endorsing it, just pointing it out.

 

[Popeer]

Re: Maybe instead of going with the right-wing media hysteria ...

Originally posted by DvlDog4WVU:
The original thing I said was that Barry has been responsible for more firearms and ammo being sold since the 94 AWB expired. Not because he is endorsing anything, but because every time he says something about firearms everyone runs out and panic-buys weapons and hoards ammo. I have a guy who works for me who has stockpiled almost 100k rounds. Not endorsing it, just pointing it out.

Ah, I see what you mean now. It reminds me of the joke that went around in 2008 when Russia invaded Georgia, and Wal-Marts in Alabama sold out of guns and ammo ...

Paranoia strikes deep. Into your mind it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid ... Buffalo Springfield "For What It's Worth" 1967