Malkin - 'We don't play right. We don't play hard. We're mad at each other'

[torontoeers]

Well....they are still toward the top of conference, and have 3 of the best forwards in the damned game...so now what??? Is it possible that this group just hates the coach?
When I hear comments like this from one of the team's leaders...I get just a wee bit concerned. ...

 

[COOL MAN]

I said in a post last week that I thought there was a decent chance that Sid can't stand MJ, but I'm not sure now that's NOT the case with the entire roster.

I know, versus Columbus, that MJ split his "top" PP unit into two separate units which hadn't even practiced together. Veterans are bound to push back on that; and the resulting players-only meeting......which I've always viewed as horribly overrated.....is obviously indicative that all is NOT well at Consol.

If they don't get things back on track quickly......I mean by say, a week from today (with 3 home games upcoming this week).....I think there's a strong chance MJ will have been sacrificed before American Thanksgiving. Of course, I'm not altogether sure he's the problem......or at least the ONLY problem.

It's no secret the inmates have always run the Penguins asylum.....all the way back to Mario and Yags' days.....but IF the stars are bailing on MJ, he's going to HAVE to be hung. Which would STILL leave them with a room full of overpaid underperformers. And BTW, I'm beginning to think there's a SERIOUS problem with Kris Letang.

It seems pretty clear to me he does NOT appreciate the entirely-justified heat he's starting to receive, and appears to have TOTALLY withdrawn publicly from his teammates.....though he's NEVER been a go-to guy for the local media.....while Sid and Geno are at least out facing the music (to some extent).

 

[COOL MAN]

Well, the Wild are in Pittsburgh tonight, followed by the Avalanche (THU), Sharks (SAT), then Blues for the team's traditional Thanksgiving Eve home game. That's 4 home games......against four teams who can beat them on home ice.....to see if the players-only took any kind of hold.

In (somewhat) similar situations in the past......though I can't recall too many instances in the past 10 years where folks were this down on the team.....the Pens came out strong for the first maybe 5 minutes, and then fell back into their normal act (whereas most teams will hustle for at least the entire first period). Maybe they'll surprise me tonight and give us 20 good minutes, but who knows.

In spite of what he says in the paper about not thinking about job security, MJ simply has to be wondering how close he is to the edge of the cliff; and tonight should give us some indication as to how much the team is truly interested in playing for him. I myself will be watching Kris Letang possibly more than anyone else on the roster.

And speaking of (US) Thanksgiving Eve, I myself was at the Civic Arena on NOV 22, 1972 when the Pens scored 5 goals in 2:07 to beat (I'm pretty sure) the Blues something like 10-4. I'm pretty sure this remains the fastest 5 goals in League history (though it's possible that record may have been broken in the past couple years).

 

[torontoeers]

Well, the Wild are in Pittsburgh tonight, followed by the Avalanche (THU), Sharks (SAT), then Blues for the team's traditional Thanksgiving Eve home game. That's 4 home games......against four teams who can beat them on home ice.....to see if the players-only took any kind of hold.

In (somewhat) similar situations in the past......though I can't recall too many instances in the past 10 years where folks were this down on the team.....the Pens came out strong for the first maybe 5 minutes, and then fell back into their normal act (whereas most teams will hustle for at least the entire first period). Maybe they'll surprise me tonight and give us 20 good minutes, but who knows.

In spite of what he says in the paper about not thinking about job security, MJ simply has to be wondering how close he is to the edge of the cliff; and tonight should give us some indication as to how much the team is truly interested in playing for him. I myself will be watching Kris Letang possibly more than anyone else on the roster.

And speaking of (US) Thanksgiving Eve, I myself was at the Civic Arena on NOV 22, 1972 when the Pens scored 5 goals in 2:07 to beat (I'm pretty sure) the Blues something like 10-4. I'm pretty sure this remains the fastest 5 goals in League history (though it's possible that record may have been broken in the past couple years).

CM...I didn't see the last game...do you know if MJ has put Maatta and Letang back together or is he still paired with Cole?.....Cole really impressed me early but it seems he has regressed of late too...
Last I saw Letang was around a minus 11-12 or so, that needs to improve for the team to have any success imo...along with a few more biscuits in the basket from Sid...still looking to see him shoot more and think ( perhaps overthink), less....
72 vs the Blues eh? Not sure age wise if you recall much of the first season after expansion? Or Euell ,OM1? Just curious what the feel was back then in terms of fan excitement about a new hockey team in the Burgh? Were many oe perhaps all of the games sold out for the first few years? Was it the place to be locally? I think this was the timeframe a few years before the Steelers started steamrolling the competition? Just interested really on how those first few years were....my first game was around very early 80's with Mom and Dad, Mike Palmateer's return to MLG with the Craps....
I hope to catch the majority of tonight's contest...

 

[COOL MAN]

Boomer Gordon......and to a lesser extent, Elliotte Friedman......took the Pens to the woodshed this afternoon on NHL Network Radio.

Gordon, whose interest in the Pens has been on the steep decline the past 2 seasons.....largely (though not exclusively) because he's no Rutherford fan.....predicted them to miss the playoffs altogether this summer. He was quick to criticize Kessel deal.....he's one of those guys who think blue lines are everything......and he's quietly loving the team's latest problems (though I bet he'd strongly deny it if asked).

He also says.....and today was honestly the first time I heard him say it.....that the Penguins have the quietest coach in the League (which is quite possibly true) to go with the quietest team in the League (I don't know if that's true or not.....but it certainly might be). His point was.....and I admit I think there's some legitimacy to it.... that adding one of the most introverted elite players in the business to an already-quiet roster does seem, at best, to be a counter-intuitive move. It's therefore hard not to wonder how much different this team might be right now if they'd added someone like Milan Lucic rather than Kessel (though a deal like that would have been quite different).

Friedman, on the other hand, never takes shots simply to prove how much he knows; he simply calls things as he sees them. And he says that for whatever the Pens have on the roster, what they seemingly don't have is "it". He also strongly believes the Pouliot failure has been very damaging to the team, considering he was MJ's guy in the WHL......what they thought they had with him coming into the new season......and what he was largely expected to deliver.

While everyone is quick to pile on Sid (especially) and Geno, I still can't figure out why Letang isn't being held to a far higher standard by the media than seems currently to be the case..

 

[Euell]

CM...I didn't see the last game...do you know if MJ has put Maatta and Letang back together or is he still paired with Cole?.....Cole really impressed me early but it seems he has regressed of late too...
Last I saw Letang was around a minus 11-12 or so, that needs to improve for the team to have any success imo...along with a few more biscuits in the basket from Sid...still looking to see him shoot more and think ( perhaps overthink), less....
72 vs the Blues eh? Not sure age wise if you recall much of the first season after expansion? Or Euell ,OM1? Just curious what the feel was back then in terms of fan excitement about a new hockey team in the Burgh? Were many oe perhaps all of the games sold out for the first few years? Was it the place to be locally? I think this was the timeframe a few years before the Steelers started steamrolling the competition? Just interested really on how those first few years were....my first game was around very early 80's with Mom and Dad, Mike Palmateer's return to MLG with the Craps....
I hope to catch the majority of tonight's contest...

Toronto, I didn't really start watching hockey to any great extent until around 85 so I don't know too much about the early days. Although I was not a big fan, I do remember them blowing that 3 games to 0 lead in the finals against Islanders in the mid 70's.

 

[COOL MAN]

CM...I didn't see the last game...do you know if MJ has put Maatta and Letang back together or is he still paired with Cole?.....Cole really impressed me early but it seems he has regressed of late too...
Last I saw Letang was around a minus 11-12 or so, that needs to improve for the team to have any success imo...along with a few more biscuits in the basket from Sid...still looking to see him shoot more and think ( perhaps overthink), less....
72 vs the Blues eh? Not sure age wise if you recall much of the first season after expansion? Or Euell ,OM1? Just curious what the feel was back then in terms of fan excitement about a new hockey team in the Burgh? Were many oe perhaps all of the games sold out for the first few years? Was it the place to be locally? I think this was the timeframe a few years before the Steelers started steamrolling the competition? Just interested really on how those first few years were....my first game was around very early 80's with Mom and Dad, Mike Palmateer's return to MLG with the Craps....
I hope to catch the majority of tonight's contest...

Expansion hit in 67-68, which would have made me 10 years old in Year 1 when Andy Bathgate was the Pens first "star".

I really didn't start getting into the game until the new decade, when the Big Bad Bruins started to dominate with Espo and (especially) Orr. In fact, it was the Bruins at Pens playing in my first ever in-person NHL game, My recollections are that the game was not pretty for the home team.......nor was the second game I saw the next season (a 4-0 loss to Montreal where I still remember Yvan Cournoyer turning Pens goalie Les Binkley into stone on a booming slapshot from the top of the circles after taking a stretch pass coming out of the penalty box).

Pittsburgh had a solid AHL franchise in the 60's called the Hornets, believed by most to provide the city the proper basis for an NHL team......and they had the Civic Arena, which was only about 6 years old at the time of expansion. But the Pens were no better than middle of the pack of the Expansion Six; St Louis and Philly were the two best.....Minnesota and Pittsburgh represented the muddy middle.....and nobody in my area of the world knew anything about the Kings and Seals. Pittsburgh struggled for a loooooooog time with ownership; still, that's the key factor which differentiated the Flyers from the rest of the Expansion Six in most of the first two decades of the new Western division teams.

Pens drew something like 6,700 to their inaugural home game in 1967 versus the Canadiens, and seldom (if ever) sold out the Civic Arena which seated 12,500 in those days. As mentioned, I started attending games in the early 70's; and even though the team was comparatively more established by then, I can't recall too many Saturday nights when they sold out. Any crowd over 10,000 in their first decade in the League was generally considered a pretty good turnout. But when the Steelers finally turned the corner in the 70-71 timeframe, hockey was something that essentially didn't enter local consciousness until the NFL was finished after the New Year.

They were a consistently below .500 team for a majority of their first 20 years.....all the more reason why packing it in late in the season to "earn" a shot at Mario in 1984 was so smart (and so critical).

 

[torontoeers]

Ya know who incenses me guys? Maguire! Not only is he highly annoying, but when I hear him accuse Letang of faking on the high stick, and then when he realizes he jumped the gun yet again , correcting it to a Maatta 'friendly ' high stick...this guy is an all out ASS. I suppose he rubs me bout the same way Hughson does you CM. NO excuse for his self righteous know it all bullshit. Couldn't even say I was wrong ...I swear if I saw him in. The corridors of Consul I'd be tempted to sock him in his slack jaw....anyway enough of that rant I guess...
I'm seeing effort but too many penalties again (given the fact that more than one we're complete bs phantom calls)...the O has managed to show up at least...let's quell this Wild tide and salt it away!

 

[torontoeers]

Btw COOLMAN...I LOVE these stories of the old days...I would have thought the Pens might have had more than that in the old Civic at the beginning, but I suppose it was a different era....I knew the franchise suffered early on and I guess #66 truly was a saviour...The day he was drafted was the day I made my decision...the Penguins would be MY team...I still remained a Leaf fan as well at the time, but bit by bit it faded for me, until eventually I would develop a genuine distaste and hatred for the franchise based on the way they 'treated' their fans...imo Harold Ballard was only the beginning of a franchise I viewed as the scourge of the league....Now I happily do work for them from time to time and happily avoid anything to do with supporting them, other than doing the best job I can...I still view them as a laughingstock. Too long with complete incompetence down at that cashbox MLG/ACC for ANYBODY to support them...yet they still come in droves....
I am off on a tangent again lol...

 

[COOL MAN]

Well t......perhaps just like when I was carrying on about Hughson..... I have to admit that Maguire doesn't bother me as much as he does you.

But he's not at all well-liked by a fairly large contingent of US hockey fans, many of whom always considered him (among other things) to be as a Pens homer.....something I think was a fair accusation. But on balance, I think he generally levels out the cheering for either team fairly well; which has nothing to do when (as in this case) he gets something wrong and doesn't own up to it. BTW, I wasn't aware he actually had a slack-jaw

I myself expected PM to dramatically (if not completely) back-off his gushing over the Pens after his good buddy, Ray Shero, got canned. But, it's clear he still worships Mario....and why not, since Mario is the reason he's got two rings on his dresser......and for that reason, still treats his old team fairly well. BTW, for all intents and purposes, Maguire was publicly unknown at the time he was on the Pens staff when Mario won his two Cups.

As for last night, it was a good win......but I think there have been just a few too many accolades from the Press last night and this morning. Granted, they showed up better last night than versus Columbus or (especially) Jersey; but in a League where your team's (and HC's) worth is largely calculated by team effort, I'm not sure that offsets last weekend to the extent the locals would like.

They did catch a very nice break on the high sticking call, and Hornqvist may have gotten away with goalie interference......though Dubnyk's extended pissing and moaning was silly, and I think the no-call ultimately was reasonable. But I'm just so PO'd at Maatta's injury I can't see straight (which as of 1145am today, is being called a UBI.....and he remains hospitalized).

And not because of the cross-check; which I happen to grudgingly agree with Neiderreiter is something that happens several times a game anymore (and isn't always as dirty a play as it might initially appear). What really made me angry is what's that stupid-ass Darcy Kuemper doing opening the door with the friggin' scrum right in front of him. I know that's what the reserve goalie does; but how does he do that with the play so clearly coming right at him ??. ****er oughta' be suspended without pay for doing something that stoopid.

Also, with all the moaning the Wild did in the post-game about the officiating, they're conveniently forgetting the monstrous favors the stripes (as you already know) did for them on the two long 2-man advantages. Anyway, game over.......move on.

PS: Even though he had 2 assists (and got 2nd Star), I don't think Kris Letang looked all that good last night. To me, he still looks largely lost on the PP, and isn't making any more good passes than Sid (who I missed making all the great plays for which he was apparently credited last night). But worse, he doesn't even look all that fast anymore; not good, since skating has always been his top attribute. OTOH, he did play almost 30 minutes (29:27) which even exceeded the normal marathon Suter plays (28:59) every game for Minnesota.

Fortunately, the Pens have some depth on defense; though your guess is as good as mine as to how good it is. I thought Clendening skated very well in limited time, and I think he could help this team offensively if he gets broken-in with some more extended PT (which may well happen with Maatta out presumably for awhile).

What will be most interesting to watch, however, is if the team uses this injury as a reason to elevate Pouliot (who may, or may not, deserve it).

 

[COOL MAN]

Reports this morning are that someone will be elevated from WB/S to play defense.......but that it's currently not likely to be Pouliot. But it appears the bigger question, now, is who plays with Letang. The following is from a subscription site where I get most of my Pens "insider" stuff:

I see this this as the top-six for now, assuming Maatta is out for awhile:

Cole-Letang
Dumoulin-Lovejoy
Scuderi-Clendening

Those pairings are subject to change, of course. Cole and Letang have struggled together. The question then becomes, who does Letang play with? He clearly doesn’t like playing with Cole. I know he doesn’t like playing with Scuderi. Lovejoy can’t play the left side. I’m not sure how comfortable Clendening is there, but he is right-handed, so he’s likely to stay on the right. Dumoulin? Should be interesting to see how it plays out. I’m guessing he’ll stay with Cole for now, but it’s worth watching.
​

JMO, but assuming Letang shits the bed about playing with Cole again, I'd assume they'll give Dumoulin the shot. And I myself currently assume Erixon is the first D-man to get a call to Pittsburgh.

Meanwhile, I like the idea of Scuderi playing with Clendening; Clendening becomes the puck-mover in the pairing.....and he appears to have that ability......with Scuds covering his ass full-time in the back-end support role (which is what he wants to do).

I was not aware that Letang had a problem with Scuds; of course, I'm thinking Letang is having problems with a lot of things in Pittsburgh these days. Maybe he needs to let his hair grow long again....

 

[COOL MAN]

Pens have called up David Warsofsky......who I admit I know ZERO about......to take Maatta's spot on the roster. Looks like he came up largely thru the Boston organization, having played 230 games over a roughly 4 year period with Providence. I assume WB/S signed him as a FA in advance of the start of their season.

It appears he becomes the 7th D-man on the roster, and will only dress.....in the short-term, at least.....in an emergency.

320PM EST -- I just read Scuderi is being paired with Letang; supposedly to give him back-end cover when he carries the puck. This is a move the analytics guys absolutely despise, under the assumption the longer Letang is on the ice, the longer Scuderi is out there.

Meanwhile, the news has broken that Travis Hamonic wants out from the Islanders for personal reasons. He's from the prairies (Manitoba, I think) so it's not surprising he wants to go home.......which unfortunately, leaves out the Penguins as a possible landing spot.

From what I can tell, this is old news internally; but only now has it been announced.....which leads me to believe Garth Snow wants to put a little pressure on Hamonic. I've read Snow supposedly wants a like for like trade.....in essence a #1 in return for his #1 (no picks)......and that's a bitch of a deal to make in today's NHL.

Neither the Canucks nor Oil have defense the Isles want, and I seriously doubt Calgary would move Giordano (though he's probably too old to deal). I suspect the Flames would gladly flush Dougie Hamilton, but his reputation has taken a pretty sizable hit in only 2 months. If Hamonic is willing to go to the Western US, maybe the Isles could pry Jake Muzzin from the Kings.

But that leaves Hamonic's (presumably) first choice, Winnipeg.....and Chevy has the defensive depth to make this deal. But the Isles aren't going to trade Hamonic for Byfuglien, and Jets aren't moving Trouba. Wonder if the Isles would be interested in Tyler Myers ??

No matter what happens, I'm one Penguins fan who'll be absolutely delighted to see this guy out of the Metro. Hamonic has been a major thorn in the Pens' side pretty much from the day he stepped on the ice in Long Island.

 

[torontoeers]

I am intrigued about your idea of Myers for Hamonic...this would make the most sense to this guy if his preferred destination is home...and YES the sooner Hamonic is gone from Metro the better...Snow started out as a laughingstock GM on the island and now?......he's made a number of good deals over the last few seasons imo...really improved his reputation AND job security. Something tells me he'll have to pull a rabbit outta tgd hat on this one however, in order to get full value on Hamonic...I will freely admit I don't know of his or Myers contract situation's however....

Another pretty good Offensive performance tonight, MAF shut the door when he had to, and the D looked fairly organized and solid imo...I am really starting to see (as you do as well CM) Clendening's value to this team...as a 3-4 he is solid back there able to chip in when needed, and is imo exactly what the team could use one more of...I thought Cole looked more like we saw in October tonight too which is a good thing ...so long as it continues.
And hey...Who doesn't thoroughly enjoy beating P. Roy? A more unlikable individual I cannot think of right now....[thumb2]

 

[COOL MAN]

Snow's reputation has clearly improved as dramatically as anyone in professional sports. I couldn't agree more that he was the biggest laughing stock in the League after that silly Vanek deal (which was actually only 2 years ago, and now seems almost like a decade ago).

I always thought the Lord decided the guy had simply had enough guff from the NY (and League) media, and tilted the earth just enough.....Boychuk and Leddy.....to tide things over until so many of their high picks over the past 5-7 years seemed to turn almost simultaneously into solid pros. He even got a pretty nice return for Griffin Reinhart, who he'd clearly (and fairly quickly) decided was a bust.

But how he gets comparable value in a cap League for a guy as good......and incredibly-underpaid (at a $3.86 million cap hit)......as Hamonic is hard to figure. Beside the Western Canada teams, I'm sure Hamonic would also happily accept a trade to Minnesota......and I suspect Snow would be delighted to take Matt Dumba off their hands. But I doubt Chuck Fletcher is anymore likely to move Dumba than Chevy is to move Jake Trouba. BTW, I see Myers' cap hit is $5.0 million; and, as we all know, that's as big an issue for teams these days as the players involved.

It would obviously help Snow's position were he willing to open his mind to forwards. Everyone knows nobody needs defense more than Edmonton; and if I were Snow, I'd think about holding out for some kind of multi-player mega-deal that included Ryan Nugent-Hopkins. Anyway, Hamonic has evidently been on the market since last summer with no movement, and I myself don't think this one comes to fruition until/unless Snow changes his tune. But if he continue to insist on a top-pairing D-man in return, this is probably dead in the water until Hamonic starts pushing back (and his play begins to suffer)......which then forces Snow to cut his losses.

I missed last night's game; Time Warner Cable had problems with Center Ice last night, and the game feed literally didn't come on until the last 2 minutes when the Aves were putting on the pressure. Glad to see your assessment about Clendening; not only would he take some of the pressure off Letang as a puck-mover, but it'd free-up the team to maroon Pouliot in WB/S until he decides he's really ready to do what it takes to be a full-time major leaguer. It could also (theoretically) free him up as trade-bait at some point.

I've also really grown to like Cole, and I'm glad he's doing better now that he's split from Letang. I just wish he was more like #4 (rather than #2 or #3) on their defensive depth chart; all the more proof how the Pouliot failure has really hurt the team (as E Friedman mentioned the other day). I also think even the most critical Pens fan has to acknowledge that Perron has been a much different player the past couple weeks. And finally, it's always a positive these days to see Sid get on the board.

 

[COOL MAN]

Well, not a good night last night......not so much because I think the Pens played badly (they didn't, with 39 shots), but because they got beat (IMO) by a better team.

Maybe the Sharks aren't better over a full season.....or even a playoff series.....but they just physically dominated last night in the midst of what's obviously an excellent current road streak. SJ isn't only veteran, but one of those half dozen or so examples around the league of an opponent who is just so much bigger than the Pens; and unless Sid or Geno or Flower are just playing world-class.....and none did last night......the only way the Pens win is if the Sharks get below average goaltending (which obviously didn't happen). Game over.....Blues on Wednesday.

Meanwhile, good to see the Mountaineers do.....right out of the box..... what they should have done to an opponent significantly more out-manned than I realized coming in. Was a solid workmanlike performance; but I consider it important they avoid placing very much emphasis on this game and start getting ready for an ISU team I assume will push-back much harder (even though their record isn't a whole lot better).