or is this just another political football?. This is one issue I haven't followed real closely. If the pipeline helps create jobs and either helps us sell oil or lowers the price of oil to our consumers then what is the problem?....are there issues other than the typical environmentalist ones that always come up?
Keystone veto......is there sound thinking behind this
- Thread starter Snow Sled Baby
- Start date
As near as I can tell it's just another political football, and of course there's a lot of misinformation from both sides when that happens.
It will produce a lot of short-term jobs, but the long-term jobs are debatable regarding quantity in the US.
Environmentally. There are already a lot of pipelines that follow a very similar route to the one being proposed. I haven't heard of any environmental issues for them, and since pipelines on this route aren't exactly unprecedented, then I don't really see what the environmental concerns are.
There's already a bunch of them, I honestly can't make sense of why this one is so controversial.
Yea...Warren Buffett's railroad stock goes into the crapper
You know the puppet master of "The" who says that the rich aren't paying enough in taxes while he pays ZERO income taxes....His railroad charges $30/barrel. The pipeline would move the oil for $10/barrel.
You know the puppet master of "The" who says that the rich aren't paying enough in taxes while he pays ZERO income taxes....His railroad charges $30/barrel. The pipeline would move the oil for $10/barrel.
It's a political football. The left doesn't want it widely known that the pipeline would just be an extension of an existing network that already delivers oil to the U.S., so they focus on "potential" threats to the environment, the water supply, climate change, our your Aunt Nelly. And the right doesn't want to admit that the number of permanent jobs created is nowhere near the tens of thousands they trumpet, or that the project has nothing to do with U.S. energy independence but is rather to supply U.S. refineries with more crude to process into finished products overseas.
This is an example of how the give and take is supposed to work -- Congress passes a bill ... and if the president has a strong objection he vetoes … and if Congress believes it should pass the leadership rounds up support to override. Right now the "experts" are saying that the votes aren't there. I don't have a dog in the fight but I would sort of like to see the veto overridden and perhaps restore some semblance of order to the political system.
This is an example of how the give and take is supposed to work -- Congress passes a bill ... and if the president has a strong objection he vetoes … and if Congress believes it should pass the leadership rounds up support to override. Right now the "experts" are saying that the votes aren't there. I don't have a dog in the fight but I would sort of like to see the veto overridden and perhaps restore some semblance of order to the political system.
Why, where, how
"to process into finished products overseas". Is there a basis for that statement. How many permanent jobs will be created? How many temporary jobs will be created? Is that an economic value to the country? Do all infrastructure processes not lead to a bounce in temporary jobs - some leading to increased permanent jobs and others don't. What is the stumbling block with creating temporary jobs?
"to process into finished products overseas". Is there a basis for that statement. How many permanent jobs will be created? How many temporary jobs will be created? Is that an economic value to the country? Do all infrastructure processes not lead to a bounce in temporary jobs - some leading to increased permanent jobs and others don't. What is the stumbling block with creating temporary jobs?
Keystone is the ultimate no brainer
For some reason, Keystone, has become the cause celebre for the radical environmentalists. Transporting oil via pipeline is by far the safest method of transportation. It will create jobs in the U.S. And contrary to misinformation, Keystone oil would stay in the U.S. So, it creates jobs, it increases our oil imports from friendly countries, the oil stays in the U.S., it is safest for the environment and yet it is vetoed due to the Dem's obligations to the radical environmentalists.
For some reason, Keystone, has become the cause celebre for the radical environmentalists. Transporting oil via pipeline is by far the safest method of transportation. It will create jobs in the U.S. And contrary to misinformation, Keystone oil would stay in the U.S. So, it creates jobs, it increases our oil imports from friendly countries, the oil stays in the U.S., it is safest for the environment and yet it is vetoed due to the Dem's obligations to the radical environmentalists.
Re: Keystone is the ultimate no brainer
That's Ok, we can get all the oil we need from our friends in the Middle East.
We could have turned a bad economy into success by developing our natural resources 6-7 years ago. Our leaders decided we were doing Ok by transporting our money out to the foreign countries in exchange for oil to consume and have no wave effect on our economy. Developed a way to extract heretofore unreachable energy and the developers were fought at every turn. Then Obama has the audacity to brag about the increased production of energy under his watch. Zero increase in production on government holdings.
That's Ok, we can get all the oil we need from our friends in the Middle East.
We could have turned a bad economy into success by developing our natural resources 6-7 years ago. Our leaders decided we were doing Ok by transporting our money out to the foreign countries in exchange for oil to consume and have no wave effect on our economy. Developed a way to extract heretofore unreachable energy and the developers were fought at every turn. Then Obama has the audacity to brag about the increased production of energy under his watch. Zero increase in production on government holdings.
Re: Keystone is the ultimate no brainer
It's not misinformation. The oil might stay here, but so what? The refined products will be sold overseas. How does that help our "energy independence"? We already import as much oil from Canada and Mexico as we do from all of OPEC combined -- 103,000 barrels per month vs. 91,000 from OPEC nations.
I'm not against the pipeline being built but the right needs to quit spraying Keystone's sound bites about how it's going to be some Godsend for people who drive, just as the left needs to shut up about how it will accelerate climate change or leak "dirty" oil into pristine lands.
It's not misinformation. The oil might stay here, but so what? The refined products will be sold overseas. How does that help our "energy independence"? We already import as much oil from Canada and Mexico as we do from all of OPEC combined -- 103,000 barrels per month vs. 91,000 from OPEC nations.
I'm not against the pipeline being built but the right needs to quit spraying Keystone's sound bites about how it's going to be some Godsend for people who drive, just as the left needs to shut up about how it will accelerate climate change or leak "dirty" oil into pristine lands.
Re: Keystone is the ultimate no brainer
As you know there's an oversupply of oil and U.S. production is the difference maker. Drill rigs are being idled but U.S. production is not decreasing. Fracking is alive and well except for in New York state (any others?). The price of oil, gasoline and nat gas are way down. Not real sure what you're complaining about.
As you know there's an oversupply of oil and U.S. production is the difference maker. Drill rigs are being idled but U.S. production is not decreasing. Fracking is alive and well except for in New York state (any others?). The price of oil, gasoline and nat gas are way down. Not real sure what you're complaining about.
Re: Keystone is the ultimate no brainer
Actually, new leases on public lands have dropped dramatically under Obama and yes, you are right, he is taking credit for increased domestic production. The low information crowd eats it up. But as with many things Obama says, it is a blatant lie.
Actually, new leases on public lands have dropped dramatically under Obama and yes, you are right, he is taking credit for increased domestic production. The low information crowd eats it up. But as with many things Obama says, it is a blatant lie.
Re: Keystone is the ultimate no brainer
So U.S. oil production while BO has been in office is down?
So U.S. oil production while BO has been in office is down?
Re: Keystone is the ultimate no brainer
Obama taking credit for this increase in production and lower prices is ridiculous. But as the rig count drops and the supply imbalance reduced, prices will go up again. Invest in some good energy stocks now. You'll make good money.
BTW, fracking is dead in many Dem states like NY and CA. Their is an interesting battle going on in NY where counties that have reserves want to secede and become part of PA, lol.
Obama taking credit for this increase in production and lower prices is ridiculous. But as the rig count drops and the supply imbalance reduced, prices will go up again. Invest in some good energy stocks now. You'll make good money.
BTW, fracking is dead in many Dem states like NY and CA. Their is an interesting battle going on in NY where counties that have reserves want to secede and become part of PA, lol.
Re: Keystone is the ultimate no brainer
Even someone like you can certainly understant the new development on public lands (which Obama controls) are way down. Development and production on private lands (which Obama does not control) are way up. Obama taking credit for that is false and a lie. But not unusual for Obama.
Even someone like you can certainly understant the new development on public lands (which Obama controls) are way down. Development and production on private lands (which Obama does not control) are way up. Obama taking credit for that is false and a lie. But not unusual for Obama.
Re: Keystone is the ultimate no brainer
You seem to be particularly fixated on where the hole is that the oil comes out of. My car doesn't know the difference. Private landowners are receiving lots of royalty payments, isn't that great for them and our economy? Why wouldn't any prez take some credit for an economy that improves under them, increased domestic oil production, etc.? Yours and the right wing's hate for the prez is so consuming that I guess it just really gets to you all but still it's true whether you like it or not.
You seem to be particularly fixated on where the hole is that the oil comes out of. My car doesn't know the difference. Private landowners are receiving lots of royalty payments, isn't that great for them and our economy? Why wouldn't any prez take some credit for an economy that improves under them, increased domestic oil production, etc.? Yours and the right wing's hate for the prez is so consuming that I guess it just really gets to you all but still it's true whether you like it or not.
Re: Keystone is the ultimate no brainer
Obama taking credit for this increase in production and lower prices is ridiculous. I'm not agreeing but if you or I were prez, we'd do the same thing. Can you blame him? That's just how it works. Presidents get lots of blame for things that go wrong when maybe they had little to do with it, so when things go right, why not take some credit though I haven't seen it anywhere but you're the one that hangs on his every word it seems.
Obama taking credit for this increase in production and lower prices is ridiculous. I'm not agreeing but if you or I were prez, we'd do the same thing. Can you blame him? That's just how it works. Presidents get lots of blame for things that go wrong when maybe they had little to do with it, so when things go right, why not take some credit though I haven't seen it anywhere but you're the one that hangs on his every word it seems.
Re: Keystone is the ultimate no brainer
I can show you recents speeches where he takes credit. And yes, I can blame him. He delights in his war on fossil fuels and yet takes credit when a surplus of fossil fuels lowers gasoline prices? He vetoes Keystone but takes pride in increased production? He was the one during the campaign that moving to green energy will necessarily raise prices.
I can show you recents speeches where he takes credit. And yes, I can blame him. He delights in his war on fossil fuels and yet takes credit when a surplus of fossil fuels lowers gasoline prices? He vetoes Keystone but takes pride in increased production? He was the one during the campaign that moving to green energy will necessarily raise prices.
Re: Wrong again, my friend
Believe the fuel industry if you want, it's clear you've drained their Kool-Aid pitcher. Why would refiners suddenly start selling their product in the U.S. when exports of refined products have nearly doubled in the last five years? Overseas is where the growth in demand is, and there isn't going to be a sudden spike in demand here at home if Keystone gets built.
This post was edited on 2/25 12:35 PM by Popeer
Believe the fuel industry if you want, it's clear you've drained their Kool-Aid pitcher. Why would refiners suddenly start selling their product in the U.S. when exports of refined products have nearly doubled in the last five years? Overseas is where the growth in demand is, and there isn't going to be a sudden spike in demand here at home if Keystone gets built.
This post was edited on 2/25 12:35 PM by Popeer
Re: Wrong again, my friend
I've presented you with the facts. Please provide any current evidence that this is wrong. More importantly, even if this were wrong, it still doesn't take away the fact that Keystone is a no brainer. It is good for the environment and good for the economy.
I've presented you with the facts. Please provide any current evidence that this is wrong. More importantly, even if this were wrong, it still doesn't take away the fact that Keystone is a no brainer. It is good for the environment and good for the economy.
Re: Keystone is the ultimate no brainer
You may praise him all you want, but the fact remains that the production and resulting economic thrust was in spite of every effort he made to kill it.
No Brainer. How could even you be so blinded?
You may praise him all you want, but the fact remains that the production and resulting economic thrust was in spite of every effort he made to kill it.
No Brainer. How could even you be so blinded?
