It has taken me a long time to get to this point, but
- Thread starter mountainEERnation
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Bingo. Getting beat by creampuffs isn't the way to build a program. These posters who are still salivating over Beilein can't respond intelligently. They want to focus on us losing 4 out of 5, yet those were to ranked opponents. Then when I point out that during Beilein's last 3 seasons we had worse slumps, losing to bottom tier teams (ex. Boston College) along the way. Yet, to them, Beilein is a "god". Huggs is a bum. Sad, isn't it?
That team went 9-7 in the conference and went 1-5 against ranked opponents in the conference.
hell, Beilein didn't even book a complete schedule that year..... Only 29 of the available 30 games played in the regular season (21-8) and went 2-6 against ranked opponents (one W being over then-ranked UCONN who finished sub-500). He also lost to an 11-19 Cinci team...........awkward
This post was edited on 2/17 3:00 PM by KeatonsCorner
hell, Beilein didn't even book a complete schedule that year..... Only 29 of the available 30 games played in the regular season (21-8) and went 2-6 against ranked opponents (one W being over then-ranked UCONN who finished sub-500). He also lost to an 11-19 Cinci team...........awkward
This post was edited on 2/17 3:00 PM by KeatonsCorner
Another liar...no shock - it's Keaton
That team played and beat OOC UCLA (who went 30-6 that year and went to the final 4)...and played and beat NC St OOC (as well as in the NIT). They also scheduled Arkansas OOC. I guess you're not big on facts.
Definitely got hosed...
That team played and beat OOC UCLA (who went 30-6 that year and went to the final 4)...and played and beat NC St OOC (as well as in the NIT). They also scheduled Arkansas OOC. I guess you're not big on facts.
Definitely got hosed...
Ok, defend this:
Mt St Mary's
Slippery Rock
Canisius
Montana
Western Michigan
Duquesne
Savannah State
Citadel
MD Eastern Shore
Now, we beat NC State....who went to the NIT along with us. Hardly a "quality win". Just like this season, our win against NC State will help us if they make a run and get a bid in the Big Dance....if they don't, it won't count. That's how it is.
We got BEAT by Arkansas. How is that a quality win? That's a LOSS. Just like us losing to LSU this year, it doesn't help.
So, no, we didn't get "hosed". We played NOBODY OOC.
You all say Beilein got us out of the mess from Catlett's final years. Well, I'll say that Huggs got us out of the CUPCAKE scheduling that Beilein got us in!
This post was edited on 2/17 6:11 PM by MountaineerWV
Hey Clown - you again:
You conveniently left out UCLA...guess they are a nobody, but anyway...
If you want me to defend that schedule, would you like to defend this year's OOC schedule. Your argument cuts both ways. This year's cupcakes - I present to you....
Monmouth
Lafayette
George Mason
VMI
College of Charleston
Northern Kentucky
Marshall
Virginia Tech
You conveniently left out UCLA...guess they are a nobody, but anyway...
If you want me to defend that schedule, would you like to defend this year's OOC schedule. Your argument cuts both ways. This year's cupcakes - I present to you....
Monmouth
Lafayette
George Mason
VMI
College of Charleston
Northern Kentucky
Marshall
Virginia Tech
The truth of the matter is this. Every team from a Big 5 conf. schedules cupcakes OOC because their conference schedule is such a grind. Catlett did it, Beilein did it, Huggs does it, every coach in america does it in the Big 5. Each year you schedule a couple tough OOC games and a stringof patsies. You're going nowhere with the scheduling argument. You better try a different tactic because that's getting you nowhere.
Leaving UCLA wan't "convenient". I conceded that one. But you were claiming that by us LOSING to Arkansas, that it played in us getting "hosed".
Marshall....we were locked in to that game, how can you put them on the list?
Virginia Tech....rival, good to play them and they play in the ACC....DUH!
George Mason has made a Final Four in the recent history and is considered (traditionally) as a very good mid-major.
College of Charleston....see above ^^^
Dude...I'm so done arguing with you. You just made an argument for CoC and George Mason. You're grasping...And I didn't claim losing to Arkansas meant we got hosed. Please go back and READ since you're obsessed with me. YOU brought up Beilein first and I pointed out your inaccuracies. YOU got butthurt when I pointed out last 3 season records of the two coaches. The facts are BOTH coaches have played similar schedules OOC and in Conf. Beilein played UCLA, Kentucky, Arkansas, Florida, Tennessee, Miami, Maryland, LSU, NC State, Oklahoma, etc...Huggs played Purdue, LSU, Missouri, Iowa, Ohio St., Tennessee, Ole Miss, etc. They played the same level of OOC opponents. They had similar results in those games. LOOK IT UP.
Here is what I'm saying - I liked the success we had under Beilein and the style of bball we played when he was here. There was a feeling we could win every game because of what we did to teams like top 5 Florida and top 5 UCLA. Did it always turn out that way, no. But there are games that we go into with Huggs that I don't get that same feeling because there are several games where we simply are not competitive AT ALL! Does that make me a hater - probably to you it does. Do I dislike Huggs and what he's accomplished - quite the contrary. I appreciate what he's done, especially in his first 3-4 years...though after the final 4 year, his teams declined until this year. There is no refuting that. He's our coach and I support him...doesn't mean I have to like his style more than our previous coach's. Now if that makes me a hater, so be it and you can kiss my ass. I don't root for us to lose, don't want us to have bad recruiting classes, etc. For you and your brother Keaton to suggest the "haters" want that is ridiculous and makes you look like a clown.
Here is what I'm saying - I liked the success we had under Beilein and the style of bball we played when he was here. There was a feeling we could win every game because of what we did to teams like top 5 Florida and top 5 UCLA. Did it always turn out that way, no. But there are games that we go into with Huggs that I don't get that same feeling because there are several games where we simply are not competitive AT ALL! Does that make me a hater - probably to you it does. Do I dislike Huggs and what he's accomplished - quite the contrary. I appreciate what he's done, especially in his first 3-4 years...though after the final 4 year, his teams declined until this year. There is no refuting that. He's our coach and I support him...doesn't mean I have to like his style more than our previous coach's. Now if that makes me a hater, so be it and you can kiss my ass. I don't root for us to lose, don't want us to have bad recruiting classes, etc. For you and your brother Keaton to suggest the "haters" want that is ridiculous and makes you look like a clown.
Yeah, and you were the one trying to say my post on Beilein's losing streaks didn't happen when they did. And even funnier, you claimed "victory" on that. Which....is.....SAD.....
And if the OOC schedules were so similar, why is our RPI much higher under Huggs?
Oh....and you are a Hater.
This post was edited on 2/17 8:41 PM by MountaineerWV
This is almost too easy...you're sending me lobs now. For everyone not amused by my back-and-forth with Mr. Clown, I apologize...please forgive me as I try to educate him yet again.And if the OOC schedules were so similar, why is our RPI much higher under Huggs?
Oh....and you are a Hater.
This post was edited on 2/17 8:41 PM by MountaineerWV
Beilein's RPIs trended upward. I know you're not a numbers guys and your math is probably weak, but if you plot them on a graph, you will notice they line trends up. His RPI's were 110, 83, 26, 28, 33 (The fact he didn't get into the tourney his last year was a crime). Additionally he took over a train wreck in which there were no players and just went through an 8-20 season. He rebuilt the program from the bottom up in just 2 years. His average RPI was 56 and average is not a good indicator of how a program trended over 5 years
Huggs took over a thriving, healthy team full of great players. His RPI numbers have been 25, 22, 4, 21, 61, 151 (ouch), and 92. If you take a look at those on a graph you will see something totally different. His average RPI is a shade over 53. So for you to say MUCH HIGHER under Huggs is, yep, a lie. And not only that, his trend has been much different. Now if he can get it back into the 20's/30's consistently, we'd both feel a lot better.
Let me know if you need me to correct any more of your lies or errors. This is actually kind of fun.
Mountaineer, just because you would take a bullet for Bob Huggins doesn't mean you have to trash John Beilein at every turn. The man did great things for our program and brought it to the national spotlight from the not so great place that he found it, and by all accounts was a class act.
Relax, nobody "hates" Bob Huggins and he is not going anywhere, you don't need to respond to every post someone makes that says the slightest thing positive about Coach B.
Relax, nobody "hates" Bob Huggins and he is not going anywhere, you don't need to respond to every post someone makes that says the slightest thing positive about Coach B.
"Huggs took over a thriving, healthy team full of great players. "
Fact: John Beilein took over a 21-win Michigan roster that had 3 future pros on it in DeShawn Sims, Ekpe Udoh, and Manny Harris
and won 10 games..........
This post was edited on 2/18 9:13 AM by KeatonsCorner
Fact: John Beilein took over a 21-win Michigan roster that had 3 future pros on it in DeShawn Sims, Ekpe Udoh, and Manny Harris
and won 10 games..........
This post was edited on 2/18 9:13 AM by KeatonsCorner
Getting back to the original post...............and assuming that WVU is actually in need of a BB change.............which coach would come to WVU packing a resume of experience that is going to elevate WVU above what Huggs is doing now? Would the fans be tolerant of an up and coming coach to fill the role?? That's a big freaking no! The people that are settled on running Huggins out of town are the same people that want instant success to replace him. I can't see that happening. A new coach most likely equals a new system (or else the pundits will complain of it being the same 'ole same 'ole with a different coach). So a new system likely needs new players with different skill sets. That change has to be recruited and likely will not be complete until all of the former players have left the system. So that spells a minimum of three years to see if that change was worth it.
I disagree with that. We have some fans on here that despise him & want him gone. Not many, but there are a few. And most of them have the logic of a 2 year old.
I really appreciate your opinion and the effort it took to express it. I can't say that I haven't felt the same at times.
However, would we really be better off starting over. This is the hardest schedule and league WV and Huggins has faced...ever. We just defeated a 8th ranked team with a couple key injuries, Watkins and Williams. I see this press as a positive adjustment to the situation, players and competition that we play. We have really good guard play returning , good developing front court with a promising player coming next year. Hire young Beilien as shooting coach and move on.
However, would we really be better off starting over. This is the hardest schedule and league WV and Huggins has faced...ever. We just defeated a 8th ranked team with a couple key injuries, Watkins and Williams. I see this press as a positive adjustment to the situation, players and competition that we play. We have really good guard play returning , good developing front court with a promising player coming next year. Hire young Beilien as shooting coach and move on.
DING DING DING...we have a winner. What some of the Beilein "lovers" on here want to do all the time is give him all the credit for the Final Four and early success of Huggs. But when Huggs wins games like Kansas, or having success with a different style (hard-nosed), they quickly say "nobody hates Huggs". Yeah, right. As soon as we lose a few games to RANKED TEAMS these same people begin the "time for a new start" and pumping Beilein's years up again.
and yet John Beilein is well on his way to his THIRD losing season at Michigan in 8 seasons...............
ouch.
ouch.
I think we just beat Kansas,so somewhere in all this talk,we won another game....I like Hugg`s,and appreciate his skill with this sport....He`s been around forever....My only thought on this matter is,as long as the kids play hard for him,that means they respect him,and will do whatever he says......That`s all you can ask for in a coach,in any sport...We hear words like,the coach has lost this team,or,they are not playing hard for the coach,by people on TV doing games in football etc...They are usually correct...Nobody has been saying the kids are not working hard,or not trying to do their best.....Maybe,just maybe,we don`t have the most talent laden group of kids....If that`s the case,winning 20 to 22 games is terrific in the Big12,without All American college talent....As Hugg`s would say,Kansas has McDonald`s All American players all over the roster....Not easy beating this kind of talent with just good players....You need great players,or a great coach.....We have a Hall of Fame coach here....You might check his resume....760 wins.....Nothing to laugh about....Is he getting old,and losing a step,in this sport ?? Maybe !!
But unless you have a great young coach,willing to come here and take the program to the next level,we should be thankful with what we have right now....Is there a former WVU player,who is in coaching right now,who would be the "Guy" who you would like to see here coaching ?????
But unless you have a great young coach,willing to come here and take the program to the next level,we should be thankful with what we have right now....Is there a former WVU player,who is in coaching right now,who would be the "Guy" who you would like to see here coaching ?????
Jp WVU posted on 2/22/2015...
bump
"you have a team that is done"
"Ollie did well getting out of town to avoid this trainwreck"
I do not think we will see Hurdy for a while, at least until we lose again.
bump
"you have a team that is done"
"Ollie did well getting out of town to avoid this trainwreck"
I do not think we will see Hurdy for a while, at least until we lose again.
Keaton,
According to the way I read stats...
Beilein has taken Michigan to the NCAA s five out the last six years...including the national championship game. Also an Elite 8.
You always want facts.
Another fact...Beilein has had TWO losing seasons at Michigan...his first and third...after he took over a mess.
So if you and MountaineerWV can get your heads out of Hugg's ass for a few minutes...I would like to see how you spin this.
According to the way I read stats...
Beilein has taken Michigan to the NCAA s five out the last six years...including the national championship game. Also an Elite 8.
You always want facts.
Another fact...Beilein has had TWO losing seasons at Michigan...his first and third...after he took over a mess.
So if you and MountaineerWV can get your heads out of Hugg's ass for a few minutes...I would like to see how you spin this.
"Took over a mess"
Is now apparently taking over a 21-win NIT team with 3 pros and a roster full of 4 and 5 star recruits, huh?
Again, JB had Manny Harris, DeShawn Sims, and Ekpe Udoh on his squad.......... and won 10 games.
And at 14-13 with 4 more games left (since Beilein cowardly only scheduled 30 games this season, instead of 31), the probability of a 3rd losing season is high.........
Is now apparently taking over a 21-win NIT team with 3 pros and a roster full of 4 and 5 star recruits, huh?
Again, JB had Manny Harris, DeShawn Sims, and Ekpe Udoh on his squad.......... and won 10 games.
And at 14-13 with 4 more games left (since Beilein cowardly only scheduled 30 games this season, instead of 31), the probability of a 3rd losing season is high.........
There are quite a few of them that didn't want him in the first place.
The 2 groups tend to overlap.
Anyway, it is a pretty ludicrous position to take given what has happened this season so far.
BTW, John Beilein is not longer here. He CHOSE to move on. Why are we taking up so much cyberspace arguing about him? He CHOSE to no longer be at WVU and Huggs CHOSE to come here. That is all we need to say about the 2 of them.
Keaton, I can't tell you how many times this has been presented to this guy and others about Beilein "taking over a mess", and never have they responded to it. My bet is that they WILL NOT respond, because they cannot respond in any way that would curve the argument in their favor.
Maybe it had something to do with Beilein inheriting a team that was in its final year of scholarship reduction because of the Ed Martin scandal?
Does that answer suffice?
Does that answer suffice?
