It has taken me a long time to get to this point, but

Discussion in 'Mountaineer Message Board' started by mountainEERnation, Feb 15, 2015.

  1. mountainEERnation

    mountainEERnation All-Conference
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    I am finally ready for a complete overhaul in the basketball program. This is very difficult for me because I loved Huggs as a player, I've loved him as a coach, and I think he's been a great Mountaineer, West Virginian, and person. It's time for a change though.

    I think overall he has done a marvelous job getting this team to 19 wins so far, and eventually probably 21 or 22. This team has a lot of holes, and the only way to hide those holes is to play exactly the way we do - balls to the wall, 94 ft, in your face, and win ugly. This is the ONLY way this team can win. We can't shoot anywhere (3's, 2's, FT's, and worst team I've ever seen scoring at the rim), we are awful at passing the ball, our 1/2 court offense is just atrocious, and we can't defend in the 1/2 court. So the only chance is to turn people over and create enough offense out of our defense to win. Against equal or lesser teams that has been enough, but all of our weaknesses are now being exposed by better teams and that formula for success just won't get it.
    So what is the answer? Getting better players - Huggins has said as much. He's right. The problem is he's not going to get them. The game has changed, players have changed, and Huggs is a dinosaur. His coaching style is incompatible with those changes and the best players just don't want to be treated the way he treats his players. What could be excused in the past as intensity on his part is now just embarrassing and boorish - Huggs has become a caricature of himself. It hurts to see that. This team plays hard and has exceeded most people's expectations, but one only needs to look at the players faces to see the cumulative effect of his coaching. This team looks exhausted emotionally, and combine that with the physical exhaustion that comes from the season-long frenetic pace with which they have played, and you have a team that is done.
    This team will probably be better next year, assuming all the principle players return, and will probably win 20 again, but if winning a B12 championship or NC is the goal, it's not going to happen. You can win games with X's and O's, but you have to have the Jimmies and Joes to win championships and/or compete at the very highest level. Huggs can't get those players to Morgantown. It embarrasses me to watch him on the sideline anymore. I don't want him fired, but I hope he retires. He's earned the right to go out out on his own terms, and I hope he does that before his legacy becomes tarnished.

    This post was edited on 2/15 2:59 PM by mountainEERnation
     
  2. CynicalCurmudgeon

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    I couldn't have said it better. Few can play for a guy that anymore. Time to know when to fold 'em!
     
  3. Okeyd57

    Okeyd57 All-Conference
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    I wish you were wrong, but I can't argue with anything you said.
     
  4. HurdyGurdyEer

    HurdyGurdyEer All-Conference
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    We lose two senior guards next year. And these are guys who actually played 3 & 4 years for Huggs. That's a rarity these days. I don't see next year as an automatic 20 win team. Not at all.

    If we can't have an effective half-court offense with two senior guards who are quality players I don't think we'll ever have one. Maybe a DeSean Butler comes along and hits some game winning shots to get us over the hump. But don't hold your breath.

    I think the writing is on the wall. Ollie did well to get out of town before he had to deal with this train wreck.
     
  5. mountainEERnation

    mountainEERnation All-Conference
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    I don't see next year as an automatic 20 win season either. I do think we have a chance to be better, so 20 wins is a real possibility.
    My point is it doesn't matter. 20 wins will always be a grind for us under Huggs, and it will always be ugly, because we just won't get the quality of players that will allow us to get over the hump.
     
  6. NCNEER

    NCNEER All-American
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    I hope Huggs can exit with his head up and on the heels of a good season or two he has won a lot of games. Just me but when I look at most of the other athletic programs at WVU we seem to be on the rise. This may not be everyone's opinion but I have a lot more confidence in the direction of the football program and have been there for a while now. If you are going to play BBall in the B12 you have to be able to recruit and have a staff that can help move the program forward. It is just not the case in Mens Basketball. I think it would be a good move for Bobby to step down and get his health in order and let a new staff try to recruit players that can compete in this league. Would love to see a couple upsets and a decent NCAA run and then Huggs retire.
     
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  7. Darth_VadEER

    Darth_VadEER All-Conference
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    So you think this is a 22 win team (which puts us in the dance), and think we'll be better next season, but you also think Huggins should resign?

    If you want a national title, find another team because the odds of us ever winning one aren't much - Huggins is probably our best bet if that's what you really want.
     
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  8. mountainEERnation

    mountainEERnation All-Conference
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    Actually I think 21 is the ceiling, and no that won't get us in the dance with a first round exit in the B12 tourney.
    And yes, I think he should retire, and no, I don't think he's our best chance at a NC ( although I used to think he was)

    This post was edited on 2/15 4:48 PM by mountainEERnation
     
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  9. mountainEERnation

    mountainEERnation All-Conference
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    It's not just that we are losing now, it's how we are losing.
     
  10. scotthotshot

    scotthotshot Senior
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    No chance in hell if this 5eam wins. 21 games they don't make the tourney.
     
  11. mountainEERnation

    mountainEERnation All-Conference
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    We have lost our last 4 games by an average of 21 pts. There are more blowouts on the horizon.
    Even with 21 wins, a first round loss in the B12 tourney will put us at best on the bubble.

    If one of those 2 remaining wins is against Kansas then that is different - Santa Claus isn't coming again though for another 10 months....
     
  12. scotthotshot

    scotthotshot Senior
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    21 wins = tourney for this team bottom line.

    Also I'm so tired of hearing people complain about ugly wins. A win is a win period. I don't care if we shoot 1% for the game as long as the final score has us in the lead. Anyone who complains about winning ugly has never competed for anything worth fighting for. You play to win, bottom line, there is no other reason.
     
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  13. Euell

    Euell All-Conference
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    You should chastise Huggs then. He said after the KSU win last week it was the worst game we had played all season. I don't think he was exactly "shickled titless" with the win.
     
  14. AWS1022

    AWS1022 All-Conference
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    Huggins has never won a NC, only been to two final fours and got early dismissals from multiple tournaments. Maybe expectations have been too high since the day he got to WVU. You say he's a dinosaur...well, he wasn't getting NC's when he was young and not a dinosaur. A lot of wins during the regular season, a trip to the tourney and an early loss...that's what he gives WVU and what he always gave Cincy. I'm not sure why you expected anything different at a school located in an area with far less recruiting talent than the Cincy area had.
     
  15. wbgvwbgv

    wbgvwbgv All-Conference
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    Get rid of coach who makes the tournament - laughable argument even on our idiot board. Huggins got a contact extension that could allow him to coach until the year 2023. At $3 million a year and tournament bound, he isn't quitting any time soon.

    Only 5 years ago WVU was Conference Tournament Champions and made the Final Four. Guess who the coach was at that time? LOL.
     
  16. mountainEERnation

    mountainEERnation All-Conference
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    Did you even read my original post?
     
  17. xWVU2010x

    xWVU2010x All-American
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    I agreed with this after last season, only to be proven wrong this year. Atleast wait until we see how March unfolds before you make this thread. If we beat KU tonight we are in the drivers seat for a good seed in the tournament.
     
  18. mountainEERnation

    mountainEERnation All-Conference
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    I hope I'm wrong. I love Huggs.

    I don't think I'm wrong though.
     
  19. SteelHeadEer

    SteelHeadEer All-Conference
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    5 years ago. Think about that.

    And you are right, he has one of the most undeserved contracts ever as far as length. I don't so much have a problem with the money as the length given. WVU is handcuffed to a coach that has no accountability and the coach knows it. Drink up!
     
  20. MountaineerWV

    MountaineerWV All-American
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    I agree with you Darth. These guy weren't bitching when we were winning 90% of the games this year. Suddenly, we hit our NORMAL skid (did it under Beilein in back-to-back-to-back years before he left. Us winning a national title...would be awesome...but unrealistic. Us getting back to the Sweet 16 should be the primary goal. That's something we should expect every 3-4 years. But....noooooo.....we want "national titles", even though it's never happened. But Hugg's is a HOF coach, that makes it easier.....says some......those who don't understand a damn thing about collegiate sports.


    Huggs is a great coach. Huggs gives us the best opportunity to achieve our realistic goals.
     
  21. mneilmont

    mneilmont All-American
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    Huggs and his team have come a long way this year. Enjoyed WVU basketball since Hot Rod and West days. Not going to put demands on the program now except for providing entertainment. Seen up years and down years. Expectations have always been high. Never have been an asshole that demanded from players or coaches - save Bucky Waters. Never felt better toward the program as the day he left for Duke.

    It is nice when we get on a run and a bummer when we slump, but the sun comes up tomorrow for a new day and expectations. Huggs has been catching hell the last month. He knows enough about the game to correct the ship if players will listen and give him their best effort.
     
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  22. SteelHeadEer

    SteelHeadEer All-Conference
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    Really, they why is our half court defense as bad or worse than last year since he got rid of the guys that made it so bad last year and brought in " his " type of guys?
     
  23. bobhertzel'ssweatpants

    bobhertzel'ssweatpants All-American
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    When was the last time we made the Final Four prior to that? Put a 0 behind that 5. We have some really delusional fans. I guess everyone does though.
     
  24. Shady TigEER

    Shady TigEER Senior
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    You realize your lying right? Beilein didn't have the late season collapses that you're referring to. Look it up. I believe his second to last year he went 2-4 down the stretch but still got the team to the sweet 16 before losing 74-71 to Kevin Durant and Texas. His last year here he went 3-3 down the stretch but won 5 straight to win the NIT. His 3rd to last year he won 4 out of 5 down the stretch then had an amazing run of upsets in the Big East Tourney to make it to the semi-finals, playing in 4 straight days before finally losing to Syracuse...then made it to the Elite 8. But nice try with the fibbing and all...
     
  25. MountaineerWV

    MountaineerWV All-American
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    Lying? I don't think so. Here is the facts:

    John Beilein in 2003-04 lost 5 of the last 6 regular season games and in 2004-05 lost 6 of 7 in January, and in 2005-06 lost 5 of the last 7 games, and a few of those weren't very close either, that was different because???????
     
  26. MountieHoo1105

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    I don't disagree with anything the original poster said.

    But what type of program do you think would be successful at WVU?

    Methodically & defensive heavy like Wisconsin/Virginia/Kentucky?

    A refined version of a press like we have now or like VCU?

    Anything else? Whatever it I think we need some system that's a little different. It what seems to work here.
     
  27. mneilmont

    mneilmont All-American
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    Is this year's half court really worse than previous year? How can you substantiate that claim? Plainly, I don't think it is worse. If someone breaks the press, they will have extra man. Problem with the press - break it and you have the man advantage. Press works and you have the man advantage.

    Share with me how you arrive at difference between the years?
     
  28. Shady TigEER

    Shady TigEER Senior
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    #1 - Your wrong again because he didn't lose 5 of 6 of the last regular season games in 03-04 (and that was his 2nd year not one of his last 3 years as your previous post indicated).

    #2 - The 6 of 7 he lost in January was mid year towards the beginning of the Big East schedule and end of the OOC games...then he proceeded to finish the season winning 4 of 5 and taking the team to the Big East semis and then the elite 8.

    #3 - 5 of the last 7 in 05-06 - wrong again...we went to the sweet 16 that year - how do you do that losing 5 of the last seven

    Oh and to answer your question - Each of Beilein's teams were peaking at the end of the year his last 3 years as evidenced by his tourney runs in each of those years. Can't say the same for our team the last 4 years.
     
  29. MountaineerWV

    MountaineerWV All-American
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    #1: You are wrong, buddy. We lost 4 of our last 5 regular season games, lost in the Big East tourney, and then went to the NIT. That was in 2003-04...look it up.


    #2: So what, it happened in January. Fact is that we lost those games in a row in conference play. Huggs does that, and you go nuts on him.


    #3: You are WRONG again. We lost 5 of 7 going in to the NCAA tourney. Don't believe me? Look it up.
     
  30. MountaineerWV

    MountaineerWV All-American
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    Oh, and that last year, it was a great NIT run..... [​IMG].....something you all want no part of anymore. Guess expectations were fine under Beilein in his last year to go to the NIT, but Huggs.....nah....


    And "peaking" isn't the word I would use. Sure, we made a run that one year and blew a big lead against Louisville, made it to the sweet 16....but that season we lost 5 of 7 going in to the tourney....hardly call that "peaking".....
     
  31. VaultHunter

    VaultHunter All-Conference
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    If Kenyon Martin doesn't break his leg Huggins might have a National Championship.

    2 Final Fours? Do yourself a favor and see how many active coaches have more than 2 Final Fours.

    This is the only IF. If the team stays in tact and the commits this year actually sign with WVU next year will br even better.

    Some of you experts on everything kill me. This is not football every game does not count like it does in football. This is basketball and the basketball season is a long hard grind.

    THE GOAL IN COLLEGE BASKETBALL IS TO MAKE THE TOURNAMENT. If your not doing that then its like no bowl in football and that is bad for your program.

    Lets wait and see before we declare this season a success or bust since its only February.
     
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  32. Shady TigEER

    Shady TigEER Senior
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    Hey dumbass...you said regular season games - so you were wrong...if you were counting the Big East tourney you didn't say that. And yes...peaking at when it counts (tourney time) would be much preferred over going 14-1 and peaking in the OOC portion of our schedule. You were the one that brought up Beilein, not me...I was just correcting your errors. But having said that, I'd take Beilein's years over Huggs's years. Doesn't mean I don't like Huggs, but I'd take the Beilein teams over what I've seen the last 4 years.
     
  33. MountaineerWV

    MountaineerWV All-American
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    So, if you like NIT appearances, I guess you would like Beilein's years.
     
  34. spreadoption

    spreadoption All-Conference
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    If anybody was curious, the answer to the question is 33 coaches.
     
  35. Shady TigEER

    Shady TigEER Senior
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    Laughable (sweet sixteen, elite eight). Clown
     
  36. MountaineerWV

    MountaineerWV All-American
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    Final Four....NCAA Tourney in all but TWO seasons under Huggs.....
     
  37. Shady TigEER

    Shady TigEER Senior
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    Beilein's last 3 years 73-31 (Elite 8, Sweet 16, NIT Champ)
    Hugg's last 3 years 49-41 (No bid, NIT loss, ???)
     
  38. MountaineerWV

    MountaineerWV All-American
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    Beilein = allowed to struggle and go to NIT after going to Sweet 16
    Huggs = excellence or get out of here


    Sound about right?
     
  39. Shady TigEER

    Shady TigEER Senior
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    And another thing....Beilein's last year (the NIT championship year) remains the ONLY year in which a Big East team ever won 10 league games and 20 games in a season (22 to be exact) and not get an NCAA bid. Got hosed that year by the committee.
     
  40. Shady TigEER

    Shady TigEER Senior
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    I declare myself the winner of this argument [​IMG]
     

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